Post best /his/ Armor.

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1400 for me
the previous one are too rednecky (1330 is good but the helm, come on...), the later ones too fancy

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>>270944
Speaking from a purely aesthetical and cultural point of view, this armour is god tier t b h familia

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>>270944
>you will never genocide turanians and other servers of the Lie for your king of eran and aneran

>>270993
thats pure garbage you fuckin weeb.

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>>270944
I have a thing for early samurai armors

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>>271045
Herbalist Pavel, I'm Shogunate.

>>271072
>All this armour
>Still wear fucking sandals
Did Boots ever really latch on in Japan?

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Swagger 200% capacity

>>270955

aw man I like that sode type shit on 1250, that should've caught on. Always good to have another place to put your crest :^)

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Bronze age best age.

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>>271214
Just look at this swagger.

>>271151
>chain pants

You know thats a made up kit, right?

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S A X O N
T
R
O
N
K

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>google "slavic cone helmet mask"
>go to images
>they all have this horrible logo on them

Well, I am too lazy to look up drawings, so I guess I'll advertise whatever this is for free.

>>271226
I just searched up on google. I wasn't really looking for perfect historical accuracy. You have any more accurate pictures?

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>>271228

saxon a shit, they don't even have any good special units or good faction bonus.

I won't deny their swag though.

>>271258
Its basically the same as OP, but with a bucket helmet and the black robe of the order.
I am not sure if they even had long sleeve mail, as it does get in the way in practice.

>>271267
Ah, thanks.

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>>271264
YOU JUST SHUT UP

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>>271276
Oh, and another thing. When I said "robe" of the order, I mean robe.
As in, a proper monk robe, brown or black, and not this tight along the body tabard.

Here is a LARPer that looks authentic enough.

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>>271276
>>271282
Here is another, better than the normal comic book superhero portrayals I see in video games and film.

They were warrior MONKS. So they wore the warrior kit (chainmail and helmet) and above it the monk kit (robe and cross).

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S O
E
X
Y

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Post Italian harness!

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>>271276
Dude, that guy you're replying to is both a fucking retard and knows nothing. For one, maille "pants" were called chausses, and hauberks had full maille sleeves post 8th-9th century.

>>271616
>he says, posting an artist rendition of something that happened hundreds of years before the art was composed, by an artist who has never seen armor

Long sleeves are a problem, I know this from actually wearing armor.
Other people who wear armor agree with me.
They get caught on everything and hang annoyingly, and keep in mind most of your life, even as a warrior, is spent not fighting.
I sure as fuck wouldnt want my sleeves catching my sword pommel in my belt, or getting in my soup.

And the "pants" part was just very long socks, and those are also a problem and werent popular. And I know for a fact hospitaliers didnt wear sabatons as was illustrated, and that they wore monk robes over their armor.

Wouldnt it be common for soldiers to pass out from the heat of wearing so much armor in the middle east?

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>>271222

>>271856
So you actually don't have any evidence against the existence of sleeved maille besides "well from my personal experience it wasn't comfortable" when all depictions of Knights show them wearing it.

Also, they only hand if you don't tie them or aren't fitted properly.

>>271856
Why couldn't these problems be solved by a few belts?

>>271880
Your evidence is a picture drawn by an amateur hundreds of years after the fact.
Mine is experimental archaeology.
Let the guy pick who to trust.

>>271937
Because then you run the problem of having a few more belts to tie in before you are set for battle, and since those are at the end of your arm you will need help.
Also they are the small thing that gets lost while you are transporting or storing your stuff.

>>271222
>>271878

So ugly haha

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>>270944
>>271023
Stellar choices.

I quite like the Parthian armour depicted in this figure, myself.

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>>271964
You're fucking retarded
>muh experimental archeology
>thing didn't exist because I said so and it's uncomfortable

>>272446
>huurrrr i maek strawman :D

I never said they didnt exist. I suggested that the templars might have used the short sleeved variation, as it is more practical.
You got so triggered that you forgot what you were arguing.

>>271222
legit af shield

>>272462
I'm not even that guy, but really

>>271856
this is utter horseshit. Let me select the points you made

>I know this from actually wearing armor
>other people who wear armor agree with me
>I sure as fuck wouldn't want my sleeves catching

you are just as bad as lindybeige thinking that hoplites went into battle with waterbottles and shit on them.

By the way, "short sleeved variation" and long sleeved have names. Hauberk and Harbergeon. Your ignorance of these terms paints you to be an amateur at best.

>>272519
Protip: taking the 5 seconds required to look up the proper names for something doesnt give your argument much strength.

In the end of the day, you are looking at a picture, drawn by a person who had no access to armor, or templars, and had less understanding of history than even you yourself do.

If you get seriously into history one day you will learn to never trust artists.

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When you eagle as fuck and you dont give a shit

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>>272527
At the end of the day, you are a civilian, who put on armor, and walked about for a couple hours and ate some soup.

If you get seriously into history one day you will learn to never trust reenactors.

>>271964
>What is a squire Alex
There are much harder to get on types of armor regardless. Saying that its a pain to put on you literally means nothing, especially if youre a higher up with a squire or servants and the like.

>>270955
There are a few fuckups in the last three.

>>272570
>Never to trust reenactors
Woh buddy, dont give us all a bad name just because of someone who cant keep their sleeves out of their soup.
Of course there are some dumb ones out there (I know quite a few), but there are also those of us who know more than i could hope to in my entire life.

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>>271222
>Dendra panoply
>That much armor and still a shield
>That throat collar on an infantryman
>Implying he was not a chariot driver.

>>271393
I posted quite a few in a thread earlier this week. Did you get those?

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>>271856
>Long sleeves are a problem, I know this from actually wearing armor.

Shitty Indian reproductions =/= armor.

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>>270944

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>>271226
Are you really trying to pretend chausses did not exist?

>>272527
>get into history
>says the person who does "experimental """"""""""""""""""archeology""""""""""""""
You literally don't have a single merit to your argument. Plate was hot and reduced visibility and hearing, but was still used extensively. The protection mail offered vastly over weighs any issues with "getting caught on things." Actually, what the fuck did you get caught on?

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>>272615
Don't argue with tards.

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4th Century BC

>>272616
>What the fuck did you get caught on
His soup

>>271856
>my soup
Holy shit this post is golden

>>271029
Sinoboo =/= Weaboo

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I like most stuff between 1430-1580.

>>272628
Kek. You're not supposed to wear armor outside of battle. Like he said, it does get in the way of mobility and comfort.

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the best armor wasent for humans tho

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>>272619
When I posted that I was not aware he thinks every contemporary source is wrong because he personally found a modern recreation uncomfortable. Which is impressively stupid.

On topic I quite like the full mail.

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>>272663
Ah alright.

For those interested in mail armor look at a few of these articles.

http://www.erikds.com/?page_id=22

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>>272653
Even if you do have it on you should still be able to eat a bloody bowl of soup.

He probably had shitty modern mail that is not tailored and drapes massively at the wrists.

>soup

Gotta admit, I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

>>272717
it needs some tending, but this may become a moderately great board meme

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>inb4 Late Empire Internet Defense Force gets their Lorica Hamata in a twist

>>272771
Segmentata is a shit cost saving measure though.

>>272783
Hello LEIDF

>>272771
>Late Empire
>hamata

>>272790
Actually 70 BC. until Aurelius is more of my time.

>>271226
>icameheretolaughatyou.png

>>272570
I am a civilian who put on armor and gave armor advice.
You are a civilian who looked at a picture of armor drawn by a civilian and gave armor advice.

Again, spend less time criticizing me and more time trying to verify your own points. They need sharpening.

>>271856
And I wear armour as well. When mail is actually fitted to you, it isn't annoying and longsleeves are fine.

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mongol armor looks so cool, no wonder they conquered the world

>>272672
this
not claiming to be an expert but it seems to me that making maille in any pre modern society would represent a massive investment of time and resources (i know it takes months for amateur maille makers to make a byrnie or similar, even using modern electric tools). I would assume then that if you were having maille made, it would be fitted to you, not generic. What I don't know is if maille was handed down over generations, or if it was possible/feasible to 'fit' the maille by adjusting it to fit a new wearer.

>>272840
actually I am a former soldier who has worn modern armor for months in battlefield conditions :^)

But since I am a reasonable man, I won't use modern day experiences to define what people did in the past.

>>272840
Alright Soupman, give me a few minutes

>>272864
Modern armor relates to middle ages armor about as much as your post relates to reason.

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>>272851
Doesn't look very good for soup eating activities though.

>>272859
>What I don't know is if maille was handed down over generations, or if it was possible/feasible to 'fit' the maille by adjusting it to fit a new wearer.
What would even be the issue? It's not a plate, you can broaden it just by adding chainlinks.

>>272851
Looks like fantasyshit though. I mean, it even has fucking horns.

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>>272874
>But since I am a reasonable man, I won't use modern day experiences to define what people did in the past.

>>272881
like i said i have never worked with maille and i wasn't sure if that was something you could do relatively easily. In retrospect that makes sense, certainly would be worth the effort of having maille that fit well. I'm pretty sure well-fitted maille is more protective too.

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Where tonlet skirts only used for tournaments? They look like they would provide exceptional protection but you probably could not sit a horse with them.

Fitted mail actually has a small baggy area near the elbow to accommodate bending it. The rest is supposed to be a tight fit.

>>272922
let alone eat soup

>>272840
"the lower part of the sleeves fits more tightly than the upper part, this being especially noticeable in the left arm. This agrees very well with the shirt reputed to have belonged to Duke Leopold of Austria, who fell in the Battle of Sempach in 1386, which is now in the collection of the Town Hall of Lucerne. The sleeves continue into gauntlets."
From Bengt Thordeman, Armour of the Battle of Visby 1361, volume 1, referring to a mail shirt found near the edge of the mass grave at Visby, and one of the best sources of common armour in the high middle ages

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>>272922
More tonlets.

>>272764
Just replace sauce with soup.

>>272881
>What would even be the issue?
>be knight
>inherit mail from dad
>put mail
>can't eat soup for shit
>die from starvation
>dynasty extinct

>>272922
Tonlets were primarily English, if I recall correctly, and were indeed meant for foot.
>>272924
Called a gusset, garments still use them today.
>>272932
Furthermore, repairing and fitting mail is fucking easy to do, so it being handed down or looted is not an issue. Making a full suit takes forever, but you get a piece of armour that will literally last generations

>>272533
this will always be the most bizarre form of battle dress to me

>>272955
That would make sense, didn't english knights fight on foot alot?

>>272970
I'm no expert, but I have heard that, yes

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I bet money you could eat soup with this
10/10

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>>272955
Here's a pic of a funeral effigy from worcester cathedral
>inb4 IT'S JUST ARTWORK LOLOL
Funeral effigies often show battle damage, different strapping styles on the same effigy (implying repairs had been done over the user's life) and intense attention to detail. There is an excellent study of funeral effigies, but unfortunately the site seems to be down for the moment. talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/effigy%20analysis.html

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Conquistador Armour is pretty sexy too to be honest family

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>>272997

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Oh goddamnit, I had a whole master's thesis on 13th, 14th and 15th century armour pieces, but I only have the reference images for the 15th left.

Fuck it, soupboy btfo, let's celebrate by posting some more sexy armour

>>273034
i'm writing a paper on how scalloped gauntlets developed to scoop up soup

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>>273034
16th century is pretty baller too.

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>>273046
I think you should start reading this paper by Tobias Capwell on the origin of the kettlehelmet.

>>272886
I'm pretty sure the teutonic order, among many others employed horned helmets.

>>273061
>waiting for anon to notice his fuckup

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>>272851
Agreed, it's one of my favourite armours. Chinese armour is pretty cool too.
>>272886
It's almost "fantasy" look is the appeal, for me anyway.

>>273084
What fuckup?

>>273082
To my knowledge, those were on their great helmets, which were used to protect the head against arrows and would be discarded once they got close up, with a "secret helm" or skullcap and coif (or bascinet in later cases) providing head protection when it came to close combat.

>>273095
>no paper by Dr. Capwell linked

>>273103
Just google: Kettlehelmet origin, Soup, Tobias Capwell

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>>272851
Thats fake Mongol Armor.

IRL Mongols *don't* have their own armor style. They mostly wore stuff from Turkic/Jurchen-Khitan/Islamic/Chinese armor or a combination of such styles. Same goes for swords & weapons. Only thing native to Mongs are their dress and bows.

Pic related: the famous picture of Subutai has him wearing Chinese armor.

>>273124
Man he looks like he's having the time of his life.

>>273087

Never seen this one before. Very good looking.

Otherwise I prefer
>>273000


Aztec armor is the worst.

>>273124
Is he dancing?

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Late Varangian armor makes me moist.

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>>272904
Good banter by these 2. Top kek on the filename btw

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>>273142

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>>273146

>>273142
Man this guy loves hydras

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>>273147

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>>273153

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>>273157

>>273159
>probably meant to be a skull
>instead just ends being a goofy looking face with an overbite

>>273159
that's spoopy

>>273159
>goofy looking
nigga, that's terrifying

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>>273162
>>273163
>>273168
Yes, Austrians Knights at the time wanted scary looking helmets. It was a fashion trend for a short while


This helmet was gifted from the Austrians to Henry the 8th

>>273159
>he_was_number_one.jpg

>>273181
To make up for being bad cavalry?

>>273173
>>273181
Aye siwmae

>>273181
Did Henry kill them all in response?

>>273210
lolno, Henry had a boner for the Emperor at the time, one of the hapsburgs. That's why he wanted the helmet, it's modelled after the Emperor's own face

>>273210
It was contracted by the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian, and Henry VIII quite liked him, so no. It is still a pretty weird gift to send your friend a helmet with your face on it though.

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>>273217

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Here is another grotesque Austrian helmet from the 1600s


The Negroli family in Italy
The Helmschmid family or the Seusenhoufer in Germany, those were probably the best armor smiths at the time

>>273237
That fucking smirk

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>>273248
Bro, this was the executioner's mask that served King Henry the 8th

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>>270944
>>271023
>>272322

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>>273209

>>273294
Saxon?

>>273113

Is that the one about the one in the British Museum that still had traces of red and white paint on it?

>>273308
No it was a joke everyone seemed to have missed.

>>273304
Sassanid Persian

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>>273304
Persian

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>>271305
Death to the Sais!

Return the Lloyger! For Arthur! For Britain!

>>272840

>drawn by a civilian
>implying they were all necessarily civilians
>implying they werent drawing for a military elite audience who would have immediately called them out for being wrong
>implying all of the civilian artists were completely unfamiliar with what a soldier wears either way
>implying theyre not all drawing exactly the same thing, despite being in different parts of Europe and working in vastly different mediums and matching written descriptions and surviving artefacts

Its not like we're talking about a bizarre one off like the giant cleavers in the Morgan Bible (because fuck trying to spell the other name). Mail chausses and long sleeved shirts are depicted in manuscripts, statues, effigies, badges, toys, etc etc etc.

This thread is going into my ever growing list of why I hate reenactors.

>>273335
>implying this isnt drawn by some monk who never held a knife 300 years after the battle
>implying 90% of these artists have ever seen an armor kit, or a sword, or a woman, or a muslim, or a desert

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>>273312

I see.

Heres the British Museum example anyway.

Googling Britsh Museum Kettle Helmet should have their report as the second hit. Made in the 14th century, painted red and white but then turned into a cauldron in the 15th century.

>>272878
You take off the gloves before you soup.
Anyways, they were nomads, they didnt soup.
They ate jerky and drank milk and horse blood. All shirt safe.

>>273350
If you turn it upside down, it looks like a cooking pot hanging on a chain. With soup.

>>273346

>implying they didnt depict historical battles and events in contemporary clothing and armour so it matters at all how long it was between the even hapening and the picture being drawn, so long as the picture is datable.
>implying you wouldnt have to be litterally a mad old anchorite walled up in a cupboard to have not see a suit of armour or a sword at any point in the middle ages.
>despite being apparently completely isolated from the outside world, all these monk artists managed to all draw the same things in exactly the same way

>>273372
I always wondered how those Flemish and Dutch painters of the 15th century could draw black people. elephants, rhino's, lions and monkeys so well.

Then I realized Bruges was the trading hub of the Western world and that all the things above could be bought on the market there or were present in someone's private garden.

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Do you even have wings?

>>271964
>Actual historical evidence.

>Amateur with no degree or research.

Gee I don't know who's more full of shit.

>>273384
Wings on armor a shit

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>tfw no film or TV series will ever capture the beauty and magnificence of plate armour

It's all boiled leather and ringmail now.

>>273403
Budget mang, proper plate is expensive. Unfitted plate would look stupid, so most art directors go for fantasy style bullshit

>>273403
so shiny, so chrome

>>270955
1250, 1330 and 1610 look so awesome

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>>273426

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>>273429
It's weird though.

1450 is supposed to be a men-at-arms while the other two after it represent a landsknecht captain (with greaves and a visor for some fucked up reason) and a musketeer.

That's not the logical progression.

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I really want to buy some of the better Indian Maille somebody and make myself a set of 13th century armor. Maybe even verify my heraldry from the College in Britain to have rights to display it.

>>273448
Make your own butted mail, it's easy. Just do it while listening to audiobooks or podcasts.

Just remember to make it shortsleeved so you can eat soup in it

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>>273457

>butted mail

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>>273448
https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19189

Required reading.

>>273462
I think it was a joke.

>>273457
Fuck butted. I'd like to some actual sparring in armor, and that shit will fall apart from a glancing hit. Hell I'd go for the fancy high quality steel stuff, but that costs as much as a high end gaming PC.

>>273462
>riveted mail
Jesus christ how time consuming.
>tfw too poor to commission a smith to make riveted mail

>>273462
not everyone has the kind of shekels to throw at riveted maille, or the patience/skill/tools to make it. And i can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times i've been shot at by archers and gone 'drat i wish i had some riveted maille'
>>273472
this is true, though it holds up for larp and other foam weapon tomfoolery

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>>273476
>And i can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times i've been shot at by archers and gone 'drat i wish i had some riveted maille'

Lol try walking around in Glasgow for a weekend. You'll want some proper mail then.

>>273474

Anything to do with mail is time consuming. It's all just degrees of insanity once you start down that rabbit hole.

(Allbeststuff despite having the worst name in the industry does decent rivetted for a very good price if you havent checked them out)

>>273476
No I was thinking more along the lines of blunted swords.

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>>270944
>GOTY armour coming through

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steel? meh.

>>273472
Don't underestimate the strength of butted mail. Sure if you use 0.8mm wire and 8mm diameter links, it will fall apart. Make it out of 1.5 or 2mm wire and 6mm links and it's actually surprisingly sturdy.

Obviously riveted mail will be stronger than any butted mail, and I would not trust my life to butted mail against anything other than an anaemic holocaust survivor with nothing but a swiss army knife, but I'd trust Indian mail about the same amount
>>273484
300-500 dorrah for a hauberk isn't bad at all, though obviously I'd want to get it fitted. Because otherwise it'd get in my soup

>>273508

I believe you can send them your measurements and they'll make one to fit, though tweaking would probably be needed.

>>273531
They do. I intend to get my maille from allbeststuff, I know a renactor from Deviantart who requested some additional modifications and fitting be done, for about fifty-seventy bucks more they met all his requests and the hauberk fits pretty well on him. I heard he could even eat soup.

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>>273387
>non contemporary art
>actual historical evidence

It has as much historical value as the comic in today's newspaper.

>>272649
Yeah, it´s swagger as fuck. Landsknechts had already cannons/guns and still, the noblemen didn´t gve a single shit.

>>273629
Honestly I don't know whether to pity you or your mother anon.

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>>273642
The French were still charging each other with lances by 1580. And then Henry of Navarre ruined it for everyone.

>>273629
There are multiple other sources for full length sleeves, soupboy, stop ratting on about the art

>>273672
And those are good sources, that I am not debating.
Nor did I ever debate the existence and use of such armor.
People basically did that cool 4chan thing where we decide one person is wrong, regardless of what they said, and gank up to ridicule him.
its fine, I can take it, and partook in it. However using non-contemporary art as source is still retarded.

>>273629

>a piece of art from 1240 is no good for determining what armour from 1240 would look like

Protip: all art is contemporary

so...

what's the *best* armour for eating soup in?

>>273799
well, clearly you want something like quilt to protect your legs in case you spill. You want no mail sleeves, but vambraces should be okay. Your gauntlets can't have a large cuff though. Kettle hat goes without saying

>>273821
i would personally reccomend a nice simple coat of plates for most broths and stews. For chowder you may want something a bit more solid, from a later period.

>>270955
what is the name of the little shield on his right shoulder in 1250?

>>273891
Epalets or something like that

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>>272961
intimidation is a big part of combat
if you scare the shit out of your opponent you migth not have to figth him or he migth not figth as well

also there are alot more bizzare types of mesoamerican battle gear

yeah i know its a small pic but you get my point

>>271240
Ibero celt? I'm not sure, only going by the sword.

>>273891

An ailette. They appear at the start of the 14th century then vanish.

>>273716
But you are wrong. That's not even up for a dispute. You have no education, no proof, no authority to say anything about the subject. Why the hell are you even posting?

>>273908
hellenic
the helmet is phyrgian tho wich is from the thracian-ish area but hellenic states quickly adopted

>>273908
the sword is a greek kopis
its very similar to iberian falcata so i can see why you tougth that
altho you should have known it was hellenic when you saw the linothorax

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When will those damn celts stop staring at my face?

>>273964
God, I love face masks. They're the coolest shit ever.

>>273964
Going a bit off-topic here, but he looks way too big for that horse..

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>>273970

Google Ugo Serrano.

>>273992
FOR

YOU

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TFW I turned my elefante into a war rhino

>>273944
>>273930
I'm only an amateur at this, so that's why I asked. Thanks for the responses though.

>>271147
>breaking the 4th wall this hard

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>>273992
Well I believe he's a Dutch guy on a period accurate horse.

Roman era horses were something like 12-14 hands high and would be called ponies nowadays.

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>>274059
This is what many Mongols would be riding.

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>>274063
last MLP for now, ill post a mask.

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>>274072

>>273507
Based saka

>>274072
>>274063
>>274059
That is fucking hilarious. I knew horses back then were small, but I mean come on.
Wouldn't they risk breaking the horses backs just by sitting on them?

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>>274074

>>274032
well you dont learn if you dont ask!

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>>274083
Actually many of those small horses were quite capable of carrying large people without a problem, their quite bulky for their size.

>>274083
That was my concern, especially during reenactments today. Horses spines are actually surprisingly fragile. Even if their spines don't break, they can get damaged.

>>272533
A people so primitive, costumes were a viable form of armor

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>>274097
>>274101
Ghengis Khan is a lot less frightening on a pony so hollywood just opted for modern day horses in most films.

Many 18th and 19th century cavalryman laughed at these horses at first but found them to be way more resilient to cold and heat than their own thoroughbreds

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>>274106
By that reasoning Europeans were primitive until WWI.

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>>274106
Except there's real armor underneath that.

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>>274118

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>>274106
>A people so primitive, costumes were a viable form of armor
The armor itself was actually quite strong, such that the conquistadors reported exchanging their metal cuirasses for them.

>>271214
what's with the spear-testicle?

>>274121
Those helmets were awesome

A shame these people got raped so badly by Spaniards that now they even adopted Spanish culture and language

>>272659
Is that the Leeds armory?

>>274106
a person so ignorant shitposting was a viable waste of his time

>>274118
What I love about Iranians (and specially ancient ones) is how close they are to us westeners (this picture could very well be a knight and his retainers with very small changes) yet keep being exotic.

>>273303
I haven't watched Hyouge Mono in a long while so I noticed the mask was familiar somehow until
>>273181
and then it clicked

>>274154
Persians were based as fuck before they got islamified.

>>274130
>such that the conquistadors reported exchanging their metal cuirasses for them.
No they didn't. Following the conquest they just continued the production of padded Aztec cotton jackets for their colonial troops.

Therefore eliminating the need for hauling buff coats out of Spain.

>>274140
>culture

Not really. Language, religion... a little more than that. Spain and Mexico are completely different. Way, way more different than the USA and the UK for example, the mestizo and native heritage is very present on mexican culture.

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>>274159
[spoiler]I like them islamified a lot too[/nospoilersforhis]

>>274206
I don't, but then again I'm very prejudiced against Muslims.

I wonder how soldiers in hot climates got shit done. I'm a bitch in even slightly shitty weather so fighting encased in heavy,hot metal in a desert sounds like hell.

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>>274164
>No they didn't
From The Essential Codex Mendoza, Volume 2:
>A spanish gloss that accompanies an illustration of an ichcahuipilli in Codex Vaticanus A testifies to teh effectiveness of the indigenous armor. The text states that the Spaniards adopted this type of battle attire from the Aztecs because arrows that could penetrate the strongest coat of mail, and even some cuirasses, could not penetrate the "escauiples." 56
From Handbook to Life in the Aztec World:
>The strength of the closed ichcahuipilli to safeguard the warrior from impending arrows so impressed the Spanish conquerors that they adopted the garment for their own use. They recognized that the Aztec garment provided better protection than the metal mail of the Spaniards (see chapter 5)
Codex Vaticanus A is at
http://www.famsi.org/research/loubat/Vaticanus%203738/thumbs1.html

>>273716
Nobody is using 'non contemporary' art as a source.

>>274220
Lighter armor m8. Also why plate never really became popular in the region though there were tactical reasons too (i.e. plate is shit for horse archery demanded by Middle Eastern Cavalry)

>>274217
Islam didn't really interrupt persian civilization t.b.h. and in fact most of the native sources we have about them are "thanks" to (often persian) muslims. Turco-altaic intrusion changed more than the arabo-islamic one, whose changes are mostly superficial outside of religion. The shah Agha Mohammad Khan Qajar, who was not only a mad brute but turkic, nevertheless recited verses of the Shahnameh to inspire his lads. In the early 19th.

>>274130
Because of the heat, not because it was somehow superior to metal armour.

A solid breastplate is going to give vastly superior protection to any reasonable thickness of cloth.

>>274121
What were those helmets made of?

Wood?

>>274284
Mahogany, yes.

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Based WWI armor.

>>274284
yes

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>>274291

>>274245
>Also why plate never really became popular in the region though there were tactical reasons too (i.e. plate is shit for horse archery demanded by Middle Eastern Cavalry)

Heavy cavalry literally originated from the Middle East

>>274274
actually in some cases it was superior to metal armour
in some cases it was more effective then a breastplate at stopping projectiles
this is because it works on the same principles as kevlar
gradually slow the projectile and then trap it
also it provided good protection against bluntforce trauma and against cutting attacks
not so much against thrusting especially if it was thin weapon

>>274292
>>274290
Damn. They must have been pretty fucking heavy then

>>274274
>Because of the heat, not because it was somehow superior to metal armour.
Did you read the quotes?
>The text states that the Spaniards adopted this type of battle attire from the Aztecs because arrows that could penetrate the strongest coat of mail, and even some cuirasses, could not penetrate the "escauiples." 56
>They recognized that the Aztec garment provided better protection than the metal mail of the Spaniards (see chapter 5)

>A solid breastplate is going to give vastly superior protection to any reasonable thickness of cloth.
Maybe, but most of the spanish were wearing mail, and it's explicitly mentioned that they could match cuirasses in protection.

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>>274291
every time.

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How common was painted metal armor?

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Sorry for shit quality.

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>>274321
We don't really know.

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>>270944
>all this armor posting
hhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnngggg

>>274232
>arrows

That implies the natives for some reason had developed arrows with the reinforced iron tips you need to defeat metal mail.

>>274321

Hard to say given how comparatively little is left and the nasty habit of previous museum curators scrubbing armour so it's nice and shiny.

Don't have the soups for it but apparently there were laws and statutes about not using paint or fabric to cover up poorly made helmets.

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>>274321
>>274341

>>274357
>That implies the natives for some reason had developed arrows with the reinforced iron tips you need to defeat metal mail.
If the ichcahuipilli was stronger than fucking mail, as reported by the spaniards in the mid 16th century in Codex Vaticanus 3738, then it would pretty obvious that they would try to design arrows that could pierce mail.

>>274357
a bronzed tipped atlatl could probably have done some serious damage to a breastplate
not to mention chainmail
also not every single conquistador used a breastplates

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>>274385

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>>273448
I know that feel bro.

The 13th century knight aesthetic is top tier

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>>274392
3/3

If these illustrations are anything to go by, Black and Dark Blue Armour was definitely a thing.

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>>274392

>>274308
Which projectiles? A steel breastplate of that era would stop a hardened bodkin point arrow fired by a longbow at close range.

What did the natives have that had more force and penetrative power than that?

>>274315
Explain how stone arrowheads are defeating metal mail then. Mail that stops metal arrows of the same basic shape back in Europe.

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>>274400
All the blue armour there is the cloth covering on a brigadine.

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>>274357
>arrows
They weren't exactly arrows but a mix of spears and darts propulsed by an Atlatl.
Very powerful projectiles in the right hands.

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>>274400
Are you sure the pigments used to depict armor haven't discolored over the past 600 years?

I'm not saying that's the case but it's definitely something people should consider whenever they view medieval or other old art.

>>274405
>Explain how stone arrowheads are defeating metal mail then.
>arguing with primary sources
Ask the Conquistadors who dictated Codex Vaticanus A to tell you how they did it, because according to firsthand sources they fucking did.

Also, from Handbook to Life in the Aztec World:
>>Aztec arrows' stone points weighed as much as steel points. The obsidian points made a superior weapon that was remarkable for the finely cut glasslike edges, the serrated edge of the points, and the conical shape, all of which helped the arrow penetrate animal tissue.

>What did the natives have that had more force and penetrative power than that?
>According to Spanish sources, the darts (the Tepoztopilli, the Atatl-thrown javelins) were highly effective, and they could pierce any armor and still inflict a deadly wound.

>>274411
Sure, but I mean In general, there's definitely a dark black or blue tint to the armours. It might not be too noticeable but on Google Images there are different results of the same illustrations but some with darker colours and some lighter. I don't know which would be the most accurate representation of the original, but anyhow, there are definitely many illustrations like >>274385 featuring distinctive black armor.

>>274405
>>274391
im not quite sure if they made bronze but they definatly hade coppar

with a atlatl you can throw a 2.7m long "arrow" at around 150 kmh
and if that was tipped with metal wich they did every know and then i can definatly see it shredding rigth through chainmail and mabey even penetrate a breastplate

also you have to rember its a battle so we arent talking about a single projectile we could be talking about 10-15 direct hits to the armor

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>>274301
Good 'ol experimental armor.

>>274420
Sort of considered that here >>274434

But it seems many illustrations from that era on The Hundred Years War all feature Black plate armour.

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>tfw poor fag
>tfw can only afford cheap cloth armor
>tfw never have sexy ass mail
>tfw can't dine on meat stew every day
>tfw spilled soup on my armor but still safe
Suck it richfags

Daily reminder chicken soup CAN melt steel mail, literally lost my arm to boiling hot soup spillage, this is why they never wore mail sleeves.

Do you think medieval war cooks wore mail tank-tops to avoid getting their sleeves stuck on the cauldron?

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>>274448
Well you have to remember most of that art came from Flanders and not France or England. That said Even Flemish oil paintings depict mirror polished blue'ed or blackened armor.

Pic related.

>>274401
based dacians, makes me proud to be romanian

>>274467

There's another Massacre of the Innocents painting also from that region that has the womans hand reflected in the soldiers breastplate.

>>274467
How did they temper the armor? Boiling hot soup? Fun Fact: the original Greek and Roman statues had paint, but during the Middle Ages people wore mail sleeves and getting caught and spilling soup all over them which washed off the paint

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>>274489
Didn't they get genocided to shit?

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>tfw never marry a qt noble woman whilst wearing full armor that has some bird thing on top
Medieval marriages were very dangerous as the men wouldn't take off their mail, thus many a bride were taken before their time due to soup spilling accidents

>>274159
>islamified
Oh so ignorant.

>>274159
More like Islam got Persianified.

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>>274515

>>274206
was this made to prevent soup spilling after getting caught on sleeves and burning the users face?

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>>274535

>>274555
See, those men would have definitely had a diet with heavy focus on soup.

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>>270944

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>>274555

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>this beats up the commie

Riot police armor is great

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no one posting that based hamata

>>274589
but can it protect against soup?

>>273908
It's from an osprey book about Carthaginian warriors apparently.

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>>270944
Just such a good setup. I feel warriors wearing this would be capable of a lot on the medieval battlefield.

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>>273173
I like that one. That helmet was also in this one album cover.

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>>271072
>For thoust

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>>274803
de Montfort?

>>274854
Why didn't they just call their album "Death Sight" instead? For someone who actually studies classical greek, it really is just cringe with retarded album and song titles like that t o b e h o n e s t f a m i l y

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>ctrl+f
>not a single mention of any Roman period

The strength of the armor isn't in how thick it is, or how many blows it can withstand, but with it's implementation.

Testudo ftw

>>274904
How can he eat soup with those pants?

>>274803
What book is this from?

>>274930
Pretty sure that a shield counts as defensive weapon, not armor.

>>274939
I count a shield, and to an extent, weaponry as armor. Especially if the actual armor lends itself to a specific use of the shield and weapon (think hoplight phalanx or legionnaire testudo, or archer armor that allows for better use of a bow).

>>274930
>The strength of the armor isn't in how thick it is
Agreed, it's the protection against soup that really matters

>>271118

It's actually really hard to attack someone in the feet, legs or lower body without leaving yourself vulnerable to a devastating counter attack.

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>>274930
testudo is a meme formation desu

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>tfw you will never have badass aryan demi-god bodyguards

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>>275020
Name one better and more versatile formation, that can be taught to conscripts on the frontier provinces.

It's ok, I'll wait.

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Late romans were stylish

>>275109
A normal rectangle, wide side facing the enemy.

There.

>>275109
The normal roman formation that was useful for more than just missile protection.

>>275125
Congrats. Your ranks are now pincushions. Maybe you should've spent another few weeks teaching those conscripts how to approach a sieged objective?

"Durrr, do a rectangle" is the reason most every other kingdom stayed a minor power, while Rome conquered.

>>274515
Not really since Rome only annexed a bit less than a third of Dacian lands and pretty much mixed with that population, meanwhile the rest became the Free Dacians and either mixed with other invaders or stayed pretty pure by staying in the mountains as sheep herders.

Is soup posting /his/'s first meme?

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>>275190
No.

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>>275123
Indeed they were

>>275207
That was around before /his/ though

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>>275190
It'll certainly be one soon, though I think Diogenes was our first.

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>>271236
Oh fuck, that's badass

>>275226
I think Diogenes and Lao Tzu could've gotten together really well

>>271878
>wearing a literal metal tube

That's badass, but how do you move?

>>275264
With their legs, obviously.

So, how did Medieval Europeans make their soup? They didn't have Knorr Stock pots™ and their food must have been so very bland. You don't want to cook like that. People always ask me: Marco, why do you cook with Knorr Stock pots™? I do it because Knorr Stock pots™ make your soup taste better. You should try it.

>>275156
>actually thinking about things this simplistically

>>275561
I didn't mean the formation itself, but the thinking behind it. Unique fighting tactics that are terrain or resource-dependent (chariots, war animals including elephants, reliance on cavalry) don't lend themselves to empire-building. Formations that are good in any situation, and can be taught with great efficiency to new citizens of the empire are a boon to military conquests. Pair that with an economy reliant on constant expansion and inclusion of peoples, and you're in it to win it.

>>273087

WTF is this shit? Only cloth/silk? How the fk will this protect someone?

>>275817
That's the Chinese version of brigandine bud.