what are the structural differences between Christianity and Islam

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>allowed it to achieve
you mean rendered it weak and susceptible to corrupting influences?

in Islam the Koran is the literal word of God that cannot be altered or criticized in any way

Christians, historically, never had a literalist view of the bible, it was always seen as an inspiration of the word and god. Which is why Christians have always been more flimsy literally picking and choosing which books go into the bible

>>2706312
>ignoring the wars of religion
>ignoring the 30year war
>ignoring the mass immigration of pilgrims to the new world
>pretending that a political reform in turkey is the same as a theological reform
get out

>>2706312

Christians often cite "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" as the basis for separation of church and state, the Koran contains no such passage and in fact explicitly condemns any attempt to separate the religion from the practice of ruling.

The collapse of the Roman empire in the west meant that the political heads of states never were the top religious leaders. If the Eastern Empire had continued (or at least passed on to other Orthodox states) you'd probably have a similar situation there as in the Middle East

>>2706333

>ignoring the reformation
>ignoring the enlightenment
>ignoring the french revolution that led to the secularization of Europe

why havn't muslim societies achieved this

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>>2706312
Christianity never really outlined how a polity should function, its individualistic to the core. Islam is different; it has politics intertwined with theology.

The French Revolution

>>2706350
I don't disagree with you, I'm just pointing out the christian reformation was not quick, nor painless. And OP's point about turkey was nonsensical. Enforcing secularism =/= theological reformation.

>>2706332
>in Islam the Koran is the literal word of God that cannot be altered or criticized in any way

Wow, just like the Bible

>Christians, historically, never had a literalist view of the bible

Kill yourself

>>2706376
your a dumbass, Christians have never had the same view of the bible as Islam has...

which is why they were literally adding new books to the bible to about 300 AD (Revelations)

the Koran is the Koran, there is no changing it

>>2706312
The concept of individual interpretation of Scripture spread in Christianity with the development of the printing press and rebellion against centralized authority of the Catholic Church.

>>2706376
The Pope and the pr*dies literally alter and create new reform that contradict the bible every year

>>2706312
there is no seperation of church and state. what many call secularism is actually covert assassinations of enemy religions by higher beings as a reward for being pious.

The Koran literally establishes a theocratic government on the Earth. Just as the the Jews of Old had their laws administered by the Scriptures by the Command of God, so too does the Koran. Christianity, in contrast, had its four main books almost completely devoid of specifics on the matters of ritualism and jurisprudence rather instead focusing on the transformation of the person as a whole. Broad principles are applied to specific situations meaning a lot of leeway is granted in a large number of scenarios allowing for integration into a great number of different societies. In contrast, heavily legalistic faiths such as Judaism and Islam have massive codes and every scenario is attempted to be pegged into a situation which is described in the Scriptures and from there, followed through.

>>2706350
>>ignoring the reformation

He isn't, he mentioned the European wars of religion, the Thirty Years War, the mass immigration of pilgrims to the new world and other driect results of the Reformation

>>ignoring the enlightenment
>>ignoring the french revolution that led to the secularization of Europe

Why have you mentioned these anti-Christian movements?

>why havn't muslim societies achieved this

In some areas, they have, just like the Christian societies haven't achieved any of these things in other areas.

>>2706376
>>Christians, historically, never had a literalist view of the bible
But it's true. Only certain protestants, such as the Puritans, take it literally.

Islam doesn't have formal clergy, bishops, popes, hierarchy etc. it is the best religion for wild anarchistic tribes, especially nomads, nobody gives a shit what you are doing, you may go on banging shit out of all livestock without shit like breves and excommunications

>>2706350
>Islam
>Reformation
What the hell is to reform considering Islam doesn't have a unified center (well, the Shias do, Sunnis don't)

>>2706404
>just like the Christian societies haven't achieved any of these things in other areas
wat

>>2706413
>Islam doesn't have formal clergy
Pulling shit from your ass, don't you?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_leaders

>>2706413
>Islam doesn't have formal clergy, bishops, popes, hierarchy etc.

Nor does Christianity, all those bishops and priests were taken over directly from paganism, there's nothing in the Bible establishing them. Islam does have a priestly class, the Imams, tho they aren't officially priests (interpretation of the Koran is illegal, it's meant to be written clearly so anyone can understand it, but unofficially the Imams fill the role of interpretation because the claim that the Koran is clearly written is no more true than any of the other claims it makes.)

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>>2706312
>Allowed Christianity.
It didn't allow it.

Secularism and the state finally got the upper hand of the Church during the enlightenment.

Christcuck is a fitting name for Christians.

>>2706442
He is right, there is an absence of hierarchy in sunni islam. It isn't like the catholic chuch where you have a pontifex maximus, a system of archdioceses and dioceses directly accountable to one another. There isn't a symbolical door to which to pin 95 theses.

Nobody is saying there isn't schools of thought in Islam, or even renowned theologians. Hell Alahzar in Egypt is probably still the most "authoritative" source for muslims. But it isn't quite a clergy like christians have, not in the slightest.

To Caesar what Caesar is due

Imams are not priests idiots, Christian priest is a WIZARD that makes daily miracles turning wine and bread into blood and flesh of the god. Imam is just a layman looking over house of prayer. Christian church is an organization, a country, with territorial divisions, there is nothing like this in Islam (except for some elements in Persian Shiism).

>>2706472
>there is nothing like this in Islam
Dar-al-arb vs Dar-al-islam tho
And the caliph kinda was the steward of mohammad on earth.

But since both got btfo, sunni muslims have been generally directionless.

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>>2706413
>it is the best religion for wild anarchistic tribes, especially nomads, nobody gives a shit what you are doing, you may go on banging shit out of all livestock without shit like breves and excommunications
Islam literally united all those fucking "anarchistic tribes" you dunce.

Political thought weighs heavily in Islamic teachings as opposed to Christianity considering their founding prophet was a goddamned political leader.

قَاتِلُوا الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلَا بِالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَلَا يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلَا يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ حَتَّىٰ يُعْطُوا الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ - 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

1 Chronicles 28:3 But God said to me, 'You are not to build a house for my Name, because you are a warrior and have shed blood.'
וְהָאֱלֹהִים֙ אָ֣מַר לִ֔י לֹא־תִבְנֶ֥ה בַ֖יִת לִשְׁמִ֑י כִּ֣י אִ֧ישׁ מִלְחָמֹ֛ות אַ֖תָּה וְדָמִ֥ים שָׁפָֽכְתָּ׃

>>2706497
The lesson here is clear
>always do the opposite of what faithfags say

Europeans. Christianity co-evolved with the rest of European civilization.

Islam is a manual for conquest and political dominance. Wrapped in a religion dressing.

>>2706463
>>2706472
The Caliphate is basically a Sunni Muslim pope + king

>>2706569
Consider suicide

>>2706581
i don't remeber jesus giving instruction on taking slaves of cities you conquer, taxing non believers, making non believers live in physically lower houses, etc.

>>2706581
Not him, but it is hard to argue that proselytizing faiths do not behave like that. What particularly harms Islam's reputation, and rightfully to a degree, is that for 10years their prophet also performed the functions of statesman and general. And it is directly reflected into both the quran and the sunnah.

That has to have an impact on the types of exegesis/tafsir you can extrapolate from their sacred texts. Jesus on the other hand got absolutely BTFO on the political level, and was always an insurgent on the fringe of society. This is bound to shape the narrative of the faith as well, at least to some minor extent.

>>2706587
have you tried checking out Moses and Joshua?

>>2706609
whataboutism doesn't really help the argument, especially when all the religions discussed belong to the same overarching family.

If anything it's a reaffirmation of some of the less-than-desirable practices from the older covenants, not a break from them.

>>2706609

The Moses that features heavily in the Koran?

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>>2706609
Jesus, our Lord and Savior, fulfilled the messianic promise, so the ceremonial law is null.

>>2706659
I haven't seen an end to war, or the restoration of the destroyed cities of Zion, or the ingathering of the lost tribes.

And didn't he say something about not the smallest jot or tittle passing away until heaven and earth did? I'm pretty sure that's in Matthew.

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>>2706671
You're confusing Judgement day with the ceremonial law; nobody knows when judgement day is expect The Father, sweetie ;)

>>2706679

No, you're backtracking on what the Messiah was actually supposed to do in order to pretend Jesus fulfilled it, sunshine :-)

>>2706609
christians dont care about those parts so it doesnt matter

>>2706679
No, I'm saying that

A) Jesus isn't the Messiah, since he didn't fulfill messianic prohpecies, and to say that "on Judgment day he will", is bullshit. I could just as easily say that Simeon Bar Kokhba will come back from the grave and finish the rest off.
B) Jesus's own statements are quite clear that he's not getting rid of any of the old law, "ceremonial" or otherwise, a distinction which you cannot find anywhere in the Gospels.

Why are Christians so unable to read their own holy books? Are you just all very stupid?

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>>2706687
Read your bible, hum
>>2706690
Jesus did not get rid of the moral law, but the ceremonial law is null, sweety

>>2706700
>Read your bible, hum

Read your's, my sweet little darling.

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>>2706707
Already have, cutie, I'm already fully aware that our savior died for us, honey.

>>2706707
Not him, but theological argument aside about "muh fulfillment of the old covenant" or not, it's undeniable the christians consider themselves a different covenant from the jews - and had done so as far as the early proto-arians, donatists and the likes. For whatever reason (possibly to differ themselves further from the jews), they shed most of the "ceremonial" practices and much of it was encoded into practice by the council of nicaea.

I think it would be silly and intellectually dishonest to argue that christians for the overwhelming majority of their existence have followed the same rule as the noahic or mosaic covenants. They evidently don't observe the shabbat, practice circumcision, or follow kashrut dietary laws. Arguins purely about whether it makes "sense", or how they got there, theologically is ignoring the crux of the argument.

>>2706732

Oh dear, my sweaty little bootycall, that's not what the Messiah was supposed to do at all.

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>>2706743
Honey-dear, this statement alone proves that you have not put considerable thought when reading The Holu Scriptures that are breathed by God.

>>2706761

Dearest, I read what they the 'Holu Scriptures' say, not what I want them to say in between making nice cream cakes and stroking cute kittens.

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>>2706790
Read you Bible, honeybun and stop being so prideful. Accept Jesus as you savior and you shall receive salvation, ok hun?

>>2706671
The end of war will come on judgement day or "the end" (Daniel 9:26)
Jesus did rebuild the temple of Zion with his sacrament (John 2:19)
And Jesus regathered all of humanity (Galatians 3:28)

>>2706796

Oh, sweetie, you don't seem to have a point.

>>2706802
Sacrifice*

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>>2706805
STOP NOT BEING SAVED, HONEY CAKES

>>2706811

No.

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>>2706825
Please...

>>2706828

Can I finger your butthole before marriage?

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>>2706836
TAKBIR

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>>2706690
>Not one jot or tittle
He didn't get rid of anything. Paul got rid of a lot of shit because he was a lazy nigger, but Jesus didn't abolish anything, and you'd know this if you bothered to read the Bible, which of course would destroy your Christianity, so you don't do this.
>>2706802
pic related

>>2706841

Then no Jesus for you tonight, I have a headache.

>>2706848
Isa is the most holy prophet after Mohammad the merciful (pbuh)

>>2706852
Why do they call it Judgement Day if everything has already been decided?

>>2706867
Don't ask me pham, I'm just a larping fedora tbqh

>>2706852

I became too old for Mohammad many years ago, I'm not nine.

>>2706870
Why did you spend time learning about Islam?

>>2706887
Mostly because I wanted to see if there was any real reason to the hate they equally receive and produce, modern politics aside.

>>2706895
How does one recieve and produce hate?

>>2706913
By memeing too hard

>>2706913

By both receiving hate and producing hate at the same time.

>>2706917
Has islam memed too hard?

>>2706926

Absolutely.

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>>2706926
They're some of the best shitposters our era has ever produced

>>2706948

Crazy bastards, it's like Christianity thirty years ago, those people are stuck in the Middle Ages.

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>>2706960
I don't even think christians have been that retarded in a long time

>>2706976

That seems like an accurate statement, even if it is tautological.

>>2707003
Well, they're extremely proficient at getting (You)'s. Gotta respect that

>>2707027

Everyone has to respect 'you' obtaining ability.

>>2706312
Islam hasn't achieved reform because there's too much infighting over who's the true successor to the Prophet Muhammad mixed in with Wahhabists who want to restart the Ottoman Empire.

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>>2706948
>>2706976
These videos are supposed to make us hate them but I think it backfire, instead it shows Muslims to be funny and quite relatable people

>>2706960
Islam hasn't reached the Prosperity Gospel phase yet. It's still at the Warlords living on diet of wine and women phase.

>>2706312
Christianity required Separation of Church and State after centuries of conflict between politically incorporated or independent theocracies and the kingdoms, city-states, and eventually nation-states of Europe.

Islam didn't, at least not in the same timeframe, because in the Muslim world most rulers engaged with religion in the way a modern state might engage with an NGO or corporation - as separate legal entities representing one or more factions, facilitating cooperation and resolving disputes between two parties, and acting as a beneficiary to government policies that privilege their mission and their investors over those of foreign groups.

An Islamic sultanate before the 19th century was Islamic in the same sense that America is Capitalist, as opposed to the Vatican or the ERE being Christian. This has very little to do with dogma or their respective holy books, which has comparatively little to say about religion and politics to begin with, and has more to do with the development of the Church as state administrators for the late Romans and Medieval kingdoms of Europe while the Ulema developed as celebrity academics. One had to be separated painfully from the state, and the other was no more a part of it than an influential guild or aristocratic clan.

The issue with Islam and the politics of state today is because of recent developments in nationalist and globalist political ideologies discarding traditional tribal-council political culture for authoritarian chauvinism, and contrary to belief won't be going away anytime soon until political culture and civics in the region is reformed rather than religious theology.