What did Rome and Han China think of each other

Neither directly connected.

Both did send diplomatic missions to each other.

Rome saw it as this massive rich kingdom in the east, past the Persians.
China saw it as 'another China'.
One Chinese explorer went to try and find them, got to the Sassassinds/Persians, then the camel fuckers went 'Yeah no there's a massive ocean between our lands and there's, it would take decades to cross is'. So the Chinese guy went home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLr6aNwLvw

>>2697228
>One Chinese explorer went to try and find them, got to the Sassassinds/Persians, then the camel fuckers went 'Yeah no there's a massive ocean between our lands and there's, it would take decades to cross is'. So the Chinese guy went home.
irl shitposting used to be so easy

>>2697228
>want to find another civilzation
>send one guy

>>2697239
>Romans lead by a Jew
>Chinese lead by a southern Nanman
this movie clip gave me cancer

>>2697261
It's silly but funny

>>2697245
The Parthians enjoyed their status as middlemen between Rome and China. It made them immensely rich thanks to the Silk Route. Having China directly link up with Rome would've bypassed all those custom tolls that Persia needed for their war machine and court.

It makes you wonder how things would've turned out if Rome and the Han Dynasty bordered each other like Rome & Persia did. Would they have as much wars and border skirmishes? Or would they both value each other as a counterweight to barbarian tribes and have the good sense to foster peaceful trade and travel as well as coordinate against steppe raiders and other nuisances?

>>2697245
to be fair Sassanids were the masters of shitposting

>>2697212

They were never in direct contact, though there were efforts from the roman side to reach them, so it's basically down to

China:
>That place on the other side of the world where all this cool glass comes from

Rome:
>That place on the other side of the world where all this silk comes from

They were aware of each other's existence, but they were too far away from each other for a meaningful relationship to exist between the two. Take a look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

>>2697281
in an ideal world the Romans would rape the Persians Alexander style and border China

>>2697255
Giovanni da Pian del Carpine and William of Rubruck were sent on separate missions to the Mongols effectively on their own.

Was Decimation a common punishment back then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4MnyLKDNKU

>>2697304
Depends

>>2697255
Less 'sent out' more 'went off to explore and bring back shit'

>>2697304
Seems it only happened in the early republican period when Rome was surrounded by neighbors who wanted to rape them so they couldn't fuck around.

afterwards they stopped the practiced and anyone that wanted to bring it back was treated like Luigi was

>>2697266
They've switch between raiding and looting/fucking up each other and working together against shit.

Kinda like Byzantines/Persians and Byzantines/Arabs.

Maybe less raiding. Depends who controls the steppes/horse based people

>>2697289
Honestly, I like the fact that the Persians would teach the uppity Romans here and there. Persianate civilization is remarkable and cataphracts kick ass. I'm sure Spartacus and all those slaves that got crucified got satisfaction when Crassus (yes THAT one) had molten gold poured down his throat. That's the one thing the Starz Spartacus series should've done in the end: Show Crassus getting BTFO by a well-trained civilized foe and not bands of slaves at Carrhae.

>>2697330
really it feels that the world is owned by the spirit of those three empires

>>2697329
The Han would've provided invaluable aid and advice if the Huns arrived on scene in Eastern Europe.

I do wonder how the Germanic barbarians would regard the Han? And remember, the Han dissolved in 220 AD, only 15 years before Rome's Crisis of the 3rd Century. Post-Han, this was the era of the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. This would be a great time for any ambitious Germanic mercenaries to make their mark in the former Chinese empire.

>>2697349
Not the same Huns.

The 'THEY ARE THE SAAAME HUUUUNS!!!' theory was tedious at best.

>>2697343
Well it helps that Persian and Chinese civilization are ancient as fuck and they've influenced the world immensely.

The missing player in the imperial balance was always India. They made their mark in SE Asia, but that was usually through trade and proselytization (Hinduism and later Buddhism), but they never really projected military power outside of the subcontinent like Rome, Persia, or China did during their expansions.

>>2697355
I was referring to the fact that the Chinese were familiar with steppe archers and could provide invaluable experience on how to treat them.

>>2697355
They may not be the same people, but even if they aren't they are similar people, with similar fighting styles and social organization. Chinese advisers (or commanders) with experience fighting enemies like that couldn't have hurt, even if their contribution would have been pretty small.

The Chinese had a really fantastical expectation that those of the Dai qin were extravagantly wealthy. In the reign of Marcus Aurelius, two Roman ambassadors got sent to China to take a visit and propose an alliance.

For some reason, the Roman ambassadors didn't think to bring gifts (or they got pawned/lost to pay for travel), and heavily dissapointed the Chinese emperor. By the time they got back, Marcus Aurelius was focused on the Marcomanni and the Chinese were annoyed, so nothing further came about.

why are people talking about the persian empire

persia wasn't even a thing when rome was at its peak

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>>2697267
What did you mean by this?

>>2697289
/his/ is an iraniboo board, newfriend

>>2697381
>What is the Sassanid Empire
Epic b8

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>>2697381

>>2697379
To be fair, Rome spent enormous amounts of their gold and silver to pay for silk imports. There were even reports of senators admonishing Rome's infatuation with silk and how it drained the treasury. So no surprise China thought Romans were rich.

>>2697212


They may never get along. I doubt Romans would love dog or cat meat.

>>2697395
>>2697397
He's right. Rome was at it's peak during 117 AD. After that it was a steady decline.

>>2697420
>memes

>>2697420
Romans sure enjoyed dormice however

>>2697438
You forget about the Parthians you fucking negroid

>>2697490
>Parthians
>Persian

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>>2697501
Not him but it looks pretty Persian to me my dude

>>2697384
Look up Khosrau I.

>>2697228
Thats not what they said to the Chinese envoy, they said it was a very difficult and dangerous trip to Alexandria, from where he was to go to Rome. The guy decided to go back to China with all of what he gathered than to try and reach Rome and die.

>>2698182
Which was a lie.

The sea passage was easy as fuck as long as it wasn't winter

Who was better militarily around, say, 100 AD?

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>>2697322
>anyone that wanted to bring it back was treated like Luigi was
He got his own videogame?

>>2698232
You're mom can win both

>>2698260
this

>>2697330
>when Crassus (yes THAT one) had molten gold poured down his throat.
Never happened

>>2698357
prove it

>>2697293
>William of Rubruck
God that must have sucked to be him
>Be Rubruck
>Travel to Kara Khorum and very accurately record your experiences in the Mongol court
>Get largely ignored only to have the memester Marco Poolo's massively innacurate book become instantly popular
Fucking Chads

>>2697239
I hated that movie
>That annoying fuccboi child
I sure was glad when he got thrown to his death

>>2697266
>The Parthians enjoyed their status as middlemen between Rome and China. It made them immensely rich thanks to the Silk Route. Having China directly link up with Rome would've bypassed all those custom tolls that Persia needed for their war machine and court.
What is this retardness? How knowing about each other cancelles the need to pass trough Persian territory? Would Perssia just magicaly dissappear?

>>2698408
They could have figured out an alternative sea route to each other through the Straits of Malacca that bypasses the Parthians altogether. IIRC one of Trajan's conquests that Hadrian gave up on was actually a port that could have been used for this purpose.

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>>2697212
Depends.
Roman Empire & Han = barely knew each other, though had contact via secondhand knowledge and trade. Although a Roman ambassador arrived in the Cao Wei kingdom during the 3 Kingdoms Period.

Byzantine Empire & Latter Chinese dynasties = Knew each other very well. Byzantines had ambassadors in Chinese capitals, and the Byzantines were China's westernmost penpal and frequently sent them memorials or bulletins informing them of events in the Chinkside of the world (i.e. new emperor crowned, hi-hello greetings, thanks to gifts sent etc.)

I once heard that the Imperial Chinese considered everyone inferior to them. How true is this?

>>2698505
The Chinese worldview was that they were the center of civilization, and the Emperor was appointed as natural ruler of "all under heaven" by heaven.

>>2698505

There was Chinese traveler report from the middle-ages that spoke very highly of the Byzantines.

The Chinese were also very curious about learning other peoples cultures and traditions, like Islam, Christianity.

They also had their very own Marco Polo, Zheng He.

>>2697304
No. Decimation was only to be used in cases where the entire unit routed, in effect disobeying direct commands. This was an extremely rare occurrence.

After the great defeat at Cannae, the survivors were spared a decimation, but were forced into active duty for the remainder of the war.

>The survivors of Cannae were reconstituted as two legions and assigned to Sicily for the remainder of the war as punishment for their humiliating desertion of the battlefield.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)

>The earliest documented decimation occurred in 471 BC during the Roman Republic's early wars against the Volsci and is recorded by Livy. In an incident where his army had been scattered, consul Appius Claudius Sabinus Regillensis had the culprits punished for desertion: centurions, standard-bearers and soldiers who had cast away their weapons were individually scourged and beheaded, while of the remainder, one in ten were chosen by lot and executed.

>>2698521
the chinese like the indians topographically come from fishbowls whilst glorious europa was forged through the fires of anarkism

e plurubus unum

>>2698505
It's true in Asia or East Asia, most of the time it's "fact" as well, like present. But Chinese dynasties usually didn't consider ancient India nor Dai Qing(Rome) cultures inferior to them, they respect ancient Indians highly.

>>2698536
India was literally quite similar to Europe lmao: it's a region of the world filled with culturally similar yet diverse peoples (i.e. European states and the Christian/Germano-Greco-Roman influenced culture everyone in Europe shares, Indian states and the Hindu/Vedic influenced culture everyone in the subcontinent shares).

And India is shit.

>>2698521

>Gets raped by nomadic tribes countless times
>Even by the Japs
>Superior

The only thing chinks can proud is their ability to breed like roaches

>>2698505
They had respect for other civilized empires, and contempt for barbarians. Not all that different from Rome.

>>2698584
Yes, they were superior most of the time back then, and they still are the dominant power in Asia in case you haven't notice it. There were only 2 dynasties(Yuan and Qing) built by nomads among 13 unified dynasties totally, and they defeated Japs, made Japs sinicize themselves willingly, and kept them at bay for thousands of years until late 19th century, get your facts straight or back to /pol/.

>>2697266
Rome's professional and drilled army would've BTFO the Chinese mass horde of peasants. The Chinese didn't even have the emphasis on horse archery and heavy cavalry that the Iranians and Huns did, which were the only tactics Rome couldn't find an answer to.

(That and masses of unwashed Germans ambushing them in the forest)

>>2698615
>made them Japs Sinicized themselve
>be put to shame by a Westernized Japan

Really makes ya think

>>2697266
Ruling Persia and being Persian are two different things you mongoloid.

They were an east Iranian people, but not Persian. Conversely, both the Achaemenids and the Sassanids originated in Fars (southwest Iran), which is the Persian homelands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni

>>2698639
Yeah, but that still didn't "make them "not superior" before 19th century. They only lost their superiority after 19th century, but now they're the major power and superior than 90% of countries again. Also make ya think.....

>>2698570
indias boxed in by ocean on 2 sides mountains on two and one minor island, china has sea on one side, desert the other, and mountains subsequent, like india its own fishbowel of seperate territories by imagined borders only whilst europe has like 6 oceans a million rivers significNt multitude of islands from crete to cyprus to malta to svalbard to ireland and archipeligo and varying ranges and natural prescipices like atop the italian penensula and transylavanias mountain surrounded by more elevated natural barricades of nature that humanity overcame through trade war love and exploration. difficult yet resource abundent enough to the endevours requirements.

>>2698635
The army of the Latter Han was mostly professional volunteers not peasant conscripts.

I'd make an argument that the superior Chinese crossbow, compared favorably to even the Xiongnu bows, would be the central, pivotal piece of technological difference between the Chinese and Romans.

With its great range and its ability to penetrate virtually all known sorts of personal armor, presuming that the crossbow can penetrate the testudo, I'd argue that, all else being equal, a Roman legion would have to use either surprise, or tactics and terrain to close the distance and force a melee as soon as possible where they have the advantage.

>>2698635
The Han did have much more emphasis on cavalry than the Romans did, though. They needed to, because of the Xiongnu. The Han were able to muster over 140,000 horses for their campaign against the Xiongnu (which also showcases that great logistical capability wasn't exclusive to the Romans) and estimates pertaining to their total amount of horses go upwards to over 300,000. The Romans did not incorporate cavalry as heavily into their forces, and the majority of their cavalrymen, from what I recall, came from their Auxillae forces, and even then, did not number as much as what the Han could muster.

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>>2698584
>Get raped by Germans.
>Never get the fuck back up again.

>Eastern Half gets TURK'D
>Never get the fuck back up again.

>>2698635
Kinda misinformation based conclusion. The era of peasant died with warring states. Once the Qin and later Han occupied the seat of central power, they professionalized and conscripts were given mandatory ~2 service training and they are to be called for duty when war arises, as well as them having to serve some x amount of time per year in their local home region. That was the main bulk, however a much more elite group of professional soldiers existed too. The shock cavalry troop which counted about 200K. The regular conscripted army was at around 600K. Mind you, this was at the height of their war against Xiongnu empire. Although Rome had 25-year term for their Legions, their average was around 10 years.

Their version of "conscript" is much more like than modern professional standing army than the idea of peasant conscript with no training and using randomly found weapons. Since they're required to fight until ~50ish year of age.

Far as historical records show, Han dynasty had monopolized the metallurgy industry and put that field to making weapons for the state military. I also believe each Han citizen were required to own weapons in their own home. Right to bear arms, more like mandatory arms bearing.

While on average Roman Legions might have training, equipment and experience, those alone won't break the Han at all.

Roman Army peaked at ~600K that was long after Han dynasty was over and I believe the Jin dynasty era was taking place.

During the Han-Xiongnu war, Roman army was ~90K during Phyrric War, around 150K(30K Legion) during First Punic War and ~130K during Second Punic War.

These numbers are just too few for Han-Rome clash.

>>2697501
What's next by your logic?
>Macedonians
>Not Hellenic
>Carthaginians
>Not Phoenician
>Iberians
>Not Celtic

>>2697239
>picking two of the goofiest looking actors for a historical war film

>>2698769
>Conquerors end up claiming themselves as your sucessors
>Still influence the world after collapsed
>The greatest empire of all time

>>2699024
>Can't overthrow conquerors to begin with.

>>2697239
>that sound effect at 1:18

ayyy lamoa

>>2698246
No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Cadorna

>>2698212
Tbf, from their position they had a massive empire to the east and a massive empire to the west. Then potentially linking up and being friends could be catastrophic.

If you were them you'd lie your ass off too.

>>2697289
Almost did,but then muslims happened

>>2697365
So were romans,greeks and persians?

>>2699024
you know that green text applies to both empires

>Mongols take over
>becomes China anyway

>Manchus take over
>becomes China anyway

>>2699296
They had plenty of times to do it but before muslims there was "then Germanics happen"

if only Rome quit fucking around, absorb the Germanics, and smashed into Persia

>>2699321
this gosu

>>2699296
>>2699321
really I like to think the relation between Persia and Rome was a dynamic change from the ancient greek era.

that Rome is the big bad empire and Perisa is the plucky underdog that has to exploit their weaknesses and keep them at bay

>>2697289
Julius Caesar was on his way to do that, then he got assassinated by butthurt senators. Then Mark Anthony fucked up when he tried to do the same.

>>2697228
>China saw it as 'another China'.
It's such as classic chink attitude, it's hilarious.

>>2699296
What do you mean almost did? A far more competent Antony got absolutely ass-raped when he tried invading the Parthian Empire. I have severe doubts that even Caesar would've had an easy time given how dramatically different warfare waged by the Parthians were then anything he had fought.

>>2697501
Parthia is an Iranian province and people that are directly next to Pars. They are an Iranic people whose language, culture, and customs are also hugely influenced by the Persians and most of the "Seven Houses of Parthia" were actually Persian clans. The Parthians are to the Persians what the Scottish are to the English. They might as well be the same people.

>>2699671
Parthia share more with Persians than Scottish with English desu

>>2698984
Iberians are not celtic desu

>>2699507
it's not entirely false

>>2698670
>but now they're the major power and superior than 90% of countries again
LOL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

The only reason they are a "major power" is because they have 1,5 billion people. They are still behind USA and EU in nominal GDP, despite having three times their population.

>>2699765
I know, it was just an example.

>>2697239
>adrian brody
>roman looking

should have picked him for a phonecian or persian

>>2697255
I'm certain it was actually entire parties with many a servants and bearers, but only the name of the chief of expedition was remembered in History.

>>2697375

real warfare wasnt fought outside of europe and the middle east in the ancient world, outside europe and the middle east it was staged / ceremonial combat, either a small pitched skirmish or two armies meet and then two champions from either side duel but don't kill each other

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>>2699316
Germans larped as Romans in all the wrong ways. The Mongols and Manchu were mostly just an administration change.

>>2697330
The Persian won one fucking battle while the Romans destroyed the multiple times and sacked their capital 6 times. The only reason the Persians survived and didn't get conquered is because of the fact that when Rome met Parthia it was already way too large to do anymore absorbing of territories, especially a relatively large one like Persia.

>>2702489
>China never fought real warfare
This is the dumbest shit I've read yet in this thread.

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>>2702473
>Phoenician
You would be surprised how well that would work. Pic very related.

The han chinese called the roman empire "Da Qin" which meant greater empire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvxgy32acBM&t=10m0s

>>2702807
Da Qin meant "Great Qin" the Chinese viewed them as a Western parallel to their own empire.

Weilue even go as far as to claim they were originally Chinese.

https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/weilue/notes11_30.html#11_1

>>2702789
Why iznt he black?

>>2697239
>adrian brody's face anywhere near that situation

FUCKING LOL'D THE SECOND HE CAME OUT

>>2702865
What do you mean?

>>2697304
>feeling empathy for Romans

>>2702851

It came about because the Romans didn't actually call themselves the Roman Empire, they considered themselves "Orbis Terrarum" or world. The Chinese themselves didn't call themselves the Chinese Empire, either, they called themselves "Tian Xia" or all under heaven.

>>2702473
Adrian Brody looks nothing Iranian or Italian or Greek or Southern European/Mediterranean at all.

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This thread made me want some type of Dynasty Warriors and Rome crossover musou

>>2697261
>Chinese lead by a southern Nanman
Wasn't it a plot point that all the "Chinese" there were basically semi-barbarians from the extreme westernmost extent of what could be considered "China"?

>>2697212
>I could take him.

The silk road should have been paved by Romans.

>>2698635
>Han surrounded by horseniggers
>they didnt have an emphasis on cavalry

w e w

>>2698584
>even by the japs

desu even in the Ming dynasty periods Spaniards or portuguese were told not to try their strength of arms against japs lest they dishonor their country. So losing to Japan isn't really that humiliating.

>>2698361
Why would they use fucking gold to kill a guy?
Lead is cheaper and doesn't give one the glory of an extravagant death.

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>>2703064
>muh not look like Roman

How about this guy?

>>2703100
>extravagant death
Your answer, the irony is almost unbelievably strong because Krauss was rich as hell.

>>2703090
>So losing to Japan isn't really that humiliating.

t. descendant of Nanjing rape victim

>>2698788
>>2698635
>>2698749
Let everyone keep in mind that although China had those numbers it wasn't logistical possible to have that many soldiers on one battlefield at at time outside of central regions of China, and even that is a stretch. This discussion is pointless

>>2703107
That makes a death by molten lead even more humiliating.
Didn't that account of his death come from Plutarch? You may as well trust Herodotus to be faithful on every account.

>>2703072
Tiger Empire

>>2698505
That only really came in full force during the Qings and that turned out great for them.

>>2698417
>Straits of Malacca

That was very-very far away from Rome.

>>2700156

Europe will be a backwater Arab and nigger shithole in 50 years

>>2703143
The idea was he loved gold so much he could choke on it. And I agree, it's too poetic and expensive of a death to be real d e s u.

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>>2703600
And Chinkland will be a pollution shithole in 5- wait... it's already become

>>2698388
I followed your rec and find the reading amazing.
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/rubruck.html

>>2703589
Even with the sailing technology of the time, going from China trough the Straits to, say, Egypt, would've been pretty doable.

>>2703614
kek

>>2700156
Yeah, but it still doesn't change the "fact" that China is already one of the major powers in the world, and for next 10~15 years they will become another super power which rival US, it doesn't matter how hard you shitpost now, enjoy your shitpost moment while you can, because it will happen not matter what.

Btw, you think elevate and uphold the living quality of such enormous population is easy? No, it's not at all. You have another contemporary example like India for reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

>>2704824
Well the Chinese government certainly didn't help the situation. Have you seen Vice's documentary on Chinese ghost cities?

>>2704837
>and for next 10~15 years they will become another super power which rival US
Assuming they can avoid a debt crisis from having propped up the post-crisis growth figures with loads of credit for political reasons.

>>2704838
Yeah, ghost cities, I don't have to watch liberal's propaganda to know it, but the thing is it really is not that "problematic" as you think, believe it or not.

>>2704838
The so called "ghost cities" are an example of forward planning. Right now there are still hundreds of millions of rural Chinese. They are building new cities for them to move to so that they don't all pile into the existing cities and cause housing crisis and collapse of public services. They will slowly fill up.

>>2703608
I understand what it meant, that's why I doubt it and imagine it to just be a poetic liberty.