Why didn't we hang the fucking traitors?

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>>2691223
Because the south is the last place in America with a culture, and you don't want to lose that.

>>2691223
I agree. We should have hung the treacherous northerners who tried to undermine the constitution and expand the power of the federal government.

>>2691223
because the people who actually suffered and sacrificed to defeat the "traitors" weren't a tenth as bloodthirsty as your garden variety perfidious Red.

>>2691223
Lincoln's end game was to mend the wounds inflicted by the war and make re-admittance to the Union as easy as possible. His plan for Reconstruction was built around mitigating the possibility of rebellion and garner national unity to prevent the whole "muh south will rise again" mentality we see today.

The only reason Johnson didn't hang the bastards was because they were his countrymen.

>>2691233
>American south
>culture
Tractor music doesn't count, anon.

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>>2691223
Would take months desu

>>2691233
>losing Southern culture

>>2691279
Reconstruction lasted until 1877. That's plenty of time.

>>2691223
Because Andrew Johnson was a southerner

>>2691233
>southern "kultur"

>>2691343
Name one thing the Northeast or Pacific states have culturally that isn't some shitty Hollywood garbage or pop culture gunk.

>>2691233
>american culture
laughsineuropean.jpeg

>>2691353
Clam chowder
Widespread literacy

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>>2691358
>clam chowder
>widespread literacy
Oh wow, you got me, gimme that stereotypes oh yes baby god i'm so horny fuck me with those stereotypes

oh fuck i'm cumming I'M FUCKING CUMMING OOOOOOOHHHH

>>2691353
Protestant work ethic and the roots of modern American capitalism, cosmopolitan intelligentsia via universities, Puritan morality and Reagan's much vaunted "City Upon a Hill" ideology, Thanksgiving holiday

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>>2691356
>European culture

>>2691223
because you lost. The Northern Aggressors and their nigger-loving ways deserve to go extinct

>>2691392
>>2691356
laughingchinese.png
you gweilos are sure funny

>>2691223

Why exactly did they think sending all the white males to war, leaving the black majority males at home, was a good idea?

Because you have to put them on trial in order to hang them. The north didn't want to put the top Confederates on trial because they didn't want to give them a chance to defend the legality of secession. Jeff Davis was a pretty good lawyer and orator and the war was already won so there was no point in beating a dead horse.

>>2691223
It wasn't treachery, and it wasn't a Civil War
The South was fighting for independence; control of their OWN government, not control of the US government. Hence it was NOT a Civil War
Hell, they didn't even want a fight. They were looking to peacefully secede. It was Lincoln who was fixing to fight, and he got his war in the end.
The South saw the Federal government for what it was: overtly sectional, dominated by northerners, and directly hostile to Southern interests. What the South did was no less noble than the American Revolution before them.
Self-government and secession are basic natural rights and Lincoln was a TRAITOR and a TYRANT for violently subjugating folks who wished to be free.

>>2691374
>work ethic
Texas is the 14th largest economy in the world.
>roots of modern American capitalism
>Americans thinking capitalism is cultural
>the north has colleges
>puritan morality (so literally Amish??)
>city on a hill
You got one
>thanksgiving
I'm blown away by your unique lack of culture.

>>2691449
Also I believe the commander of Andersonville was the only Confederate official to be hanged. Unfairly imho

>>2691374
The first American Thanksgiving was celebrated in the south. It's an old Anglo holiday and has nothing to do with pilgrims. Do Yankees actually learn this in school haha

>>2691419
they were actually the lecucks

>>2691353
nice lawns, a wife and two kids a brick house and a white picket fence.
I live in Britain, my dream of the good life is a nice cottage in a quaint small village where i know practically everyone.

Individualism, Liberalism (Not that kind) Meritocratic ideas.

To say America doesn't have a culture is silly.

>>2691223
If Lincoln had no qualms with suspending the habeas corpus to hang northern democrats , what makes you think he pulled any punches on the south?

Gota read more than that public school shit anon

>>2691454

Texas GDP, $1.6 trillion
New York City alone, $1.4 trillion

Really though, they should have been allowed to live...

After watching their wives and children BLACKED to death.

>>2691223
Dumb question, OP. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and so on were also traitors. There are some good pro-Union arguments, but the idea that the southerners were traitors is not one of them.

>>2691449
This. If they went around hanging leaders of the south you can kiss cooperation good bye. The goal was to reincorporate the south as quickly as possible and get back to business not make them pissed of more than they are and have smaller revolts and contempt.

>>2691223
You pussied out

>>2691374
>North
>Protestant work ethic
This is the part where I turn and laugh at you Seamus

>>2691495
Didn't the mayor of NYC try want to join the CSA?

>>2691454
Are you an American? All of these have distinctly Yankee connotations in American culture, the nuances of which would probably be lost on an outsider.

>>2691530
The United States was overwhelmingly Protestant before the Irish and Italian mass immigrations.
I also forgot to include the Evangelical revivals which were inspired by the Great Awakenings of the early 19th century.

>>2691568
Most Americans are protestant

>>2691374
So do you think the south is Catholic or what?

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>>2691454
>Texas is the 14th largest economy in the world.
California is 5'th.
Eat shit redneck.

>>2691470
Thanksgiving in America is widely regarded as a holiday of New England origins. Can't have Thanksgiving without pilgrims, injuns, and Squanto.

>>2691579
Baptists are basically retarded protestants so they don't count

>>2691582
Doesn't matter when your sales tax is 7.5% and the state can take up to 13% in state income taxes alone, before federal taxation kicks in. Enjoy your socialist 'wonderland.'

>>2691461
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wirz

This asshat barely established residency.

>>2691579
The foundations of Southern high culture is based on aristocratic and chivalric ideals of honor, hospitality, and courtesy, and its economy was built on the cultivation of cash crops using mass slave labor. They didn't really espouse the Protestant work ethic. But also, the great Evangelical revivals were hosted in upstate New York at first and spread across the rest of America.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Great_Awakening
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening

>>2691583
No it's not... To read Washington's or Jefferson's thanksgivings addresses. They didn't mention shit about pilgrims or Indians. Just because your lefty grade school teachers fed you some Indian/colonist bff origin story doesn't make it real.

>>2691604
He didn't do anything wrong

>>2691591
>(Protestants I don't like) are basically retarded Protestants so they don't count
That is literally not an argument and you're wrong.

>>2691223
Because that would've made the tension post-Reconstruction even worse, Andrew Johnson.

>>2691450
>when you try to peacefully secede by attacking a federal fort

>>2691609
? The Puritans landing at Plymouth and being bffs with injuns outdate Washington and Jefferson by about a hundred years.

>The event that Americans commonly call the "First Thanksgiving" was celebrated by thePilgrimsafter their first harvest in theNew Worldin October 1621.[5]This feast lasted three days, and—as accounted by attendeeEdward Winslow[6]—it was attended by 90Native Americansand 53 Pilgrims.[7]TheNew Englandcolonists were accustomed to regularly celebrating "thanksgivings"—days of prayerthanking God for blessings such as military victory or the end of a drought.

>>2691621
And? It's not the origin of the holiday in America. It's been celebrated annually throughout the USA way before the Indian/pilgrim story became popular.

>Thanksgiving services were routine in what became the Commonwealth of Virginia as early as 1607,[12] with the first permanent settlement of Jamestown, Virginia holding a thanksgiving in 1610.[9] In 1619, 38 English settlers arrived at Berkeley Hundred in Charles City County, Virginia. The group's London Company charter specifically required "that the day of our ships arrival at the place assigned... in the land of Virginia shall be yearly and perpetually kept holy as a day of thanksgiving to Almighty God."

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>>2691454
>puritan morality (so literally Amish??)

>>2691633
He's a retard that doesn't know what an Amish or a Purtian is outside of memes

>>2691629
Days of thanksgiving have always been common holidays but the Pilgrims and Indians Thanksgiving is the one that forms the cultural context for American celebration. I don't know why you're trying to argue that the Virginian holiday is the one we celebrate. Ask any kid and he'll tell you about the Pilgrim one. A bunch of religious, hardworking settlers surviving due to the grace of God and hard work makes for a better story than a bunch of Virginian tobacco planters and sons of minor gentry. Which one do you think America embraced?

>>2691646
Thats the story they came up with in the 50s. Muy grandfather didn't learn that story in the 20s/30s when he went to school

>>2691654
*my

>>2691356
At least we aren't Australians. They celebrate Christmas during the summer and still decorate with snow flakes and snowmen.

>>2691407
Commies destroyed Chinese culture

>>2691223
>Traitors
>Legally seceded from the United States
>Only fired on Fort Sumter after repeated warnings to the Federal garrison to leave CSA territory

>>2691646
>I don't know why you're trying to argue that the Virginian holiday is the one we celebrate.

It's the same fucking holiday you idiot. We aren't celebrating the one time the pilgrims celebrated Thanksgivings, we're celebrating a common Anglo holiday to thank God. Even Canada celebrates it.

>>2691674
>Federal fort not being US territory.

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>>2691674
>Legally secede

>>2691667
Woah dude, why the drive by?

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>>2691223

I think that I, being from a border state have a unique and unbiased perspective on this. Hell the president of the beligerants were both born in my state. The term brother vs. brother applied to Kentucky like no other state. I can see both sides of the argument. I've studied the Civil War and it was a terrible thing for this country but was necessary Not only to free the slaves and reunite the nation, but also to solve the question of secession once and for all. Was the death and destruction worth it? Did the Confederacy have a legal right to secede under the constitution? Were the "rebels" traitors or was Lincoln a tyrant? I wrestled with these questions for many years yet still cannot answer them. I believe the fact that after the war the winning side didn't go and execute the Confederate politicians and officers is what seperates America from much of the rest of the world. We can look at history and see what the leaders of France, England, Spain, Russia, et.al. have done to their conquered enemies. However the radical republicans were vengeful on the southern states during reconstruction and that should not be ignored.
>>2691697

The ideology of John C Calhoun was the basis of the confederate theory that a state had the right to secede if the state's sovereignty was threatened by the federal government. He was the intellectual leader of the Confederacy, and was convinced by his professors during his college days at YALE of the legality of secession. Back in those days secession was all the rage of the academics and merchants in New England whom were angered over tariffs. So basically a northern theory was put into practice by the southern states who's leaders wholeheartedly believed in the legality under the constitution of their decision to leave the U.S.
It took a brutal war to prove that secession is illegal. The modern rebels in California and Texas need to think long and hard (like my dick) before they threaten secession.

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>>2691353
*blocks your path*

>>2692024
>The modern rebels in California and Texas need to think long and hard (like my dick) before they threaten secession.

California would never secede because they don't want to lose the influence they have in the federal government. Cali secedes and the Democrat party is finished forever. They'll never control Congress or the White House again.

Texas on the other hand could literally give a fuck what happens to the rest of the US. They have a national history all their own. They have enough variety of industry and agriculture to survive and the rebellious frontier spirit to actually go through with it.

>>2692127
Most of the presidential elections democrats have won recently have been won by more than california's electoral votes

>>2692127
>Texas on the other hand could literally give a fuck what happens to the rest of the US. They have a national history all their own. They have enough variety of industry and agriculture to survive and the rebellious frontier spirit to actually go through with it.

And they would get completely destroyed

>>2691401
>Because you lost
>implying
Don't give me that "cultural victory" shit, you lost and you know it.

>>2692241
And Trump broke that cycle by breaking the Blue Wall in 2016. Cali and New York remain the DNC's only dependable power bases.

>>2692241
No they wouldn't. Especially if a Texit were the result of a popular referendum. Americans in 2016 would not want other Americans dead over a silly secession issue.

>>2691454
>puritan morality (so literally Amish??)
The puritans didn't speak Pennsylvania Dutch and abhor technology you retard. Those are two different religious groups, from different parts of Europe, no less.

>>2691233
Southern culture is basically nigger culture, everything from their music through food and speech patterns is related to nogs somehow. Also your pepe looks like a midwestern farmer.

>>2692324
>silly secession issue

There's no helping you

>>2692324
The Civil War ended the issue once and for all. Secession is illegal. If you think for a minute there wouldnt be federal troops in Texas if she left claimed independence you are naive. No way the US would allow that in a million years.

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>>2692127
>Cali secedes and the Democrat party is finished forever.
Implying that Republicans wouldn't be totally fucked without Texas

Which is what's going to happen in about 15 to 30 years when the number of Hispanic children reaching voting age flips Texas into a blue state. All of its major metropolitan areas are already turning into Democrat strongholds.

The individual districts are far too heavily gerrymandered to reflect these changing population trends, but that's going to change in 2020, the year that the census is taken and Democrats sweep the white house and both chambers of congress because Trump turned out to be such a colossal disappointment.

Texas is the GOP's Gibraltar: on the surface it looks like there's a lot of them, but that's where they're congregating to make their last stand, and time is not on their side.

>>2692514
>Implying that Republicans wouldn't be totally fucked without Texas

The issue isn't that the GOP needs Texas, it's that Texas doesn't care. California relishes in the fact that they can control the federal government from their perch at the edge of the world. They would never secede. Texas would rather be left alone to raise cattle and play football. Texas would in a heartbeat if they knew it would be relatively light cost-wise.

>>2692399
WE

>>2692636
Not really a WE moment, I'm not claiming Southern culture to be great, in fact it's absolute shit and comparable to Brazil or Haiti precisely because it's so niggery.

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>>2692399
huh...

>>2691591
>implying all protestants aren't retarded

>>2692688
>*blocks your path*

>>2692514
>le permanent democrat majority meme
People have been saying (deluding themselves into believing) this since Reagan, and since minorites are becoming more conservative, despite the desperate dying idpol if the DNC, your point is stupid anyway.

>>2692713
Minorities are becoming more conservative because they're becoming richer. Hispanics, Asians and blacks are waaay more conservative than the average white American (even GOP voters) but vote Democrat for gibs.

When they no longer need gibs, why would they vote for the party they fundamentally disagree with? Dems like to think they're the party of minorities, but in reality minorities only hang around for as long as they get on their feet, hence why a record breaking 30% of Hispanics and Asians voted GOP this year, despite the fact Trump is a """racist"""

The fight was over who was to be master, nothing else.

>>2691401
>implying it was the northerners that loved niggers

Only the Abolitionist "loved" them, and even then they didn't quite want them near them. Most "Antislavery" men in the North wanted to free them so they could be sent out of the country. If you actually read what a lot of the confederates wrote, you would find that they did have a weird paternalistic familial love relationship with their slaves. It's something that none of us can hope to understand today, and you can read many accounts of abolitionists actually going south before the war to do things other than terror attacks and coming back with a changed mind on slavery.

>>2692713
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_14_(1964) The California that once produced this is no more. There once was a time when California was _the_ most solid republican state, but that was quickly and deftly changed by the influx of Hispanics from the south who are incredibly conservative, but are also encouraged to be tribal and therefore tend to clannishly vote democrat even though they don't like gays or blacks very much.

>>2692688
What's your point?

>>2692787
I was agreeing

>>2691353
The culture of the united states has been largely based on youth culture of the west coast, being driven by music until tech came along(in SF no less)
The 50s and 60s US culture was largely informed by california beach culture
The 80s were by the LA rock scene
the 90s were OWNED by seattle

California has film industry(even besides hollywood), the nations biggest crop of wine(arizona also) and the art scene is split between LA and NY.

>>2692805
Culture =/= pop culture

>>2691479
>>2691479
>>>2691353
>nice lawns, a wife and two kids a brick house and a white picket fence.
You're thinking of the midwest. West coast is more like blue haired single tranny drug addicts paying tgeir Jewish landlords 5000 dollarydoos a month to live in a studio in some spic ghet- sorry, I mean "up and coming neighborhood" somewhere in the bay area. Also good luck finding a brick house on the west coast.

>>2691591
I'M SORRY I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE PROPER TRANSLATION OF THE GREEK WORD BAPTIZO

I'M SORRY I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER A CONSISTENT INTERPRETATION OF NEW COVENANT MEMBERSHIP

>>2692399
No, nigger culture is basically Southern culture. Nigger lover

>>2692860
Where did you get the idea that I love niggers, you faggot?

>>2691461
>In command of what was essentially a concentration camp for union POWs
I fail to see how he didn't deserve the rope

>>2691594
Enjoying getting cucked with Californiacation in Austin

>>2691450
>slave owners are violently subjugated and just wish to be free and have basic natural rights

This is top quality bait. I'm actually impressed.

>country was founded on revolution and secession
>calls revolutionists and people who wanted to secede traitors

Not a confederatecuck but don't be a hypocrite.

>>2692829
Why would you want a brick house when there's frequent earthquakes?

>>2692967
>south had taxation with representation
>secede because they don't like the results of said representation
>hypocrite

>>2692878
anon sees southern culture as "superior" and sees your post as appropriating that superior culture, therefore >leniggerlover

>>2691223
non-meme answer: it would've been a herculean task to hunt down all of the ~600,000 confederate veterans still alive and hang all of them. and by that point the terms of surrender were signed, that the confederacy would lay down its arms and dissolve in exchange for its soldiers and citizens to go back home in peace.

the war was seen as enough in terms of a punitive action against the South, there really was no need to go further with a mass extermination.

>>2692734
California is a special case, a state dominated by landlords, cash crops and robber barons.

>>2692951
because northern POW camps weren't that much better. Andersonville set up right before the Atlanta Campaign which led to massive food shortages due to Sherman's march to the sea. This compounded with the usual disease epidemics in the south and overcrowding due to the union shuting off all prisoner exchanges.

Henry Wirz was also falsely accused of personally killing union soldiers by a witness that was later proved to be a fraud who never even fought in the war. The northern public wanted blood and Wirz was a scapegoat.

>>2692282
>takes in more money from the federal government than it gives.

>"hey guys we can totally make it by ourselves as a country"

>>2692983
>he still believes the taxation without representation meme

because humiliating them and punishing them would do nothing to restore the union. people would only become more bitter. like how ww1 was a contributing factor to ww2.

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>>2692127
>They have a national history all their own.

>>2692818
Pop culture is culture, you idiot. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it isn't culture.

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>>2693068
>the bitter delusion

>>2692535

Actually were kinda starting a thing where we're doing a "the feds can do whatever the fuck they want, well mind our own business" thing. I've seen the state try to take on more and more of the functions of the federal government inside the state itself to become more self sufficient. The feds already pretty much took their hands off of our environmental policy because ours was much stricter so we didn't need theirs. Hopefully we can withdraw from federal politics further. You guys hate us and were ambivalent towards you, it will be good for everybody involved.

Hell, today I learned that we are even trying to make a clean break from the federal flood insurance program and set up our own. Though that's mostly because we are tired of constantly paying or the gulf states poor land use decisions and want to conserve our monetary strength for when the levees in the Sacramento Delta inevitably break.

>California relishes in the fact that they can control the federal government from their perch at the edge of the world.

Since when? If its about population then Texas just as easily enjoys that power.

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California is literally a modern version of the CSA.

>ruled by self righteous retards, agricultural magnates, Jews and all around scumbags
Check

>chock full of shitskins
Check

>doesn't want to abolish cheap shitskin slave (illegal) labor, claims white people wouldn't want to do those jobs
Check

>hellbent on ignoring federal laws and rulings
Check

>threatens secession so they could keep their slaves
Check

I just hope San Francisco will one day burn to the ground just like Atlanta did.

>>2691454
>Texas is the 14th largest economy in the work
thanks to mexican laborers kek

>>2692832
Thats not what Baptists are in most of the US.

>>2692818

That's like saying figure skating =/= skating or field hockey =/= hockey.

Pop culture is a subgenre of culture, and a significant one at that.

>>2693529
Ice hockey is the only "hockey" in the world. Field hockey is some gay girly shit on grass with sticks.

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>>2693508
>ruled by self righteous retards
>I get all my news from britbart

> agricultural magnates
And not the vastly more powerful tech magnates or entertainment magnates?

>Jews and all around scumbags
>Muh jews

>Refers to people as shitskins, but let me guess. "Its them libruls who are the REAL racists!"

>doesn't want to abolish cheap shitskin slave (illegal) labor, claims white people wouldn't want to do those jobs
Most Californians want them naturalized and paid decently which kinda goes against your narrative. Especially since a large number of naturalized Californians have direct familial connections to said laborers.

Also, its kinda funny because the people who supposedly "doesn't want to abolish cheap shitskin slave (illegal) labor," are mostly conservative republican farmers. But they live in a majority blue state so it must be the democrats fault!

>hellbent on ignoring federal laws and rulings
Is this about the sanctuary cities? Local police should not have to do a federal agencies job for them.

>threatens secession so they could keep their slaves
Nobody ever took that seriously, and it only stayed alive through memes. If you want pussies who threaten succession at every corner look at Texas or the South.


Bait harder

>>2692688
>Tulsa
Yeah that class of affluent black people in Tulsa doesn't exist anymore, the whites destroyed it in the Tulsa race riots and now occupy the same district wealthy black once entrepreneurs lived and worked. Nice "southern" """culture"""

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>>2693539

>>2693541
>we wuz rich businessmen n shiet but one day da whitey beat us up and since then we live in our own shit thass rite now getcha black asses to bed chilluns

>>2692818
Odeons, Ampitheaters, and gladiatorial Coliseums were pop culture.

>>2693542
>I can only communicate with memes

Also not an argument

>>2693554
Are you really denying Jews run Hollywood or are you just pretending to be retarded

>>2693545
Not even remotely We Wezzing, Tulsa had one of the best black communities in the US and then whitey chimped out over destroyed it

>>2693560
I know actually, but it's pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Also Oklahoma is midwestern not southern.

>>2693554
Michigan fag here, but do commiefornia fags really not notice how shit their state is or do they just try to ignore it?

>>2693563
thats why I used parenthesis when I typed "southern"

>>2693568
Probably because pretty much everywhere in the US sucks just as much ass, if not more...I mean, have you ever been to Michigan? Ohio isn't exactly a paradise. I live in Oklahoma so I'm in the same boat.

>>2693568
They are fed nonstop bullshit media propaganda about how California is the greatest state in America and everyone is jealous of them, completely ignoring the dismal poverty, pollution, housing bubble and critical stage shit demographics. Obviously there are also those who live in some affluent San Jose suburb and don't realize 90% of California looks like fucking Guatemala. Arguing with Californians online is on par with arguing with Indians, similar level of delusion.

>>2693582
>asking a guy from Michigan whether he's ever been to Michigan

>>2693590
Have you been to the Real Michigan or one of your sheltered cities?

>>2693592
I'm not even him but your question was full retard.

>>2691353
Teeth

>>2693592
>>2693582
>>2693568
It's almost like the entire country is going to shit yet nobody is really addressing it in a way that matters.

America's future is Detroit but everywhere.

>>2693592
'Real' Michigan? Do you mean the parts with the opioid addictions, or the part where nobody's had a job since the 1980s? Yeah, very kind and warm people there.

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>>2692829
>This is what rednecks actually think

>>2692977
Earthquakes, volcanoes, spics, niggers, trannies, jews, droughts and liberals. Why would anyone even ponder living in such shithouse?

>>2693587
This. I visited Cali thinking it'd be like the OC, instead I saw a dystopian hellscape. It has one of the highest poverty rate, inequality, debt, and urban sprawl.

>>2691341
by borders, sure, but Johnson spent most of his adult life in Appalachian Tennessee.

when Tennessee seceded from the united states, Appalachian Tennessee tried to secede from the rest of Tennessee and join the union.

they failed, but Appalachians maintained a pretty harsh guerilla war against Confederate interests during the war.

>north vs south bait thread devolves into Midwest vs California shitposting and arguing over the true meaning of Thanksgiving

Autism is a mysterious thing

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>>2691233
This is what they want to preserve.

>>2691223
Because US Grant was a pretty cool guy:

> “…each officer and man will be allowed to return to his home, not to be disturbed by United States Authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside.”
- Peace treaty from Appotomax

After Lincoln's assassination, many northerners- Secretary of War Stanton for instance- were calling for the trial of the Southern generals. Grant personally interceded on their behalf, and due to his huge popularity, prevented their execution.

>>2691223
No clue. We'd be living in a better country if we had.

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>>2693568
We ignore it because the people on this site, who are saying our state is shit seem to be the same people who like to wave confederate flags around even though they don't live in the south, the type who force every conversation to be about the "liberal menace" and act like they are being persecuted when people don't give a shit, and are still in denial about climate change.

>>2693587
>>2694431
Now you are just making shit up.

>They are fed nonstop bullshit media propaganda
Where the hell did we get a propaganda ministry? That's not in the budget! Also:
>Everyone who disagrees with me must be brainwashed by propaganda! It's the only way!

>completely ignoring the dismal poverty, pollution, housing bubble and critical stage shit demographics
That's funny. Because I remember L.A. just recently voted to pay more in taxes to support more homeless programs to solve the huge homelessness issue. BTW a huge chunk of our homeless are migrants from other states. You can't take care of your own so we did it for you.

>critical stage shit demographics
>We must defend a future for muh white race!

>Obviously there are also those who live in some affluent San Jose suburb
Why would you pick the worst city to use as an example instead of say San Diego, Santa Barbara, or even San Francisco. It's almost like you know absolutely nothing about the state and are just talking out of your ass.

>similar level of delusion.
You say as you shit out complete bullshit like >90% of California looks like fucking Guatemala. I'm actually curious as to what media you are watching that got you so delusional.

>>2691594
>taxes are bad

Feel free to not call the police the next time a Mexican rapes you, Big Tex.

>>2694754
>LA voted to pay more in taxes
You mean poor people voted to make the rich pay more?

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>>2694754
Post the unedited version, come on man.

>>2692729
You are dangerously dialectical my American friend :)

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>>2694826
The money is going to come off of sales tax which relatively evenly distributes the burden across society, though it's not perfect. But that would interfere with your narrative wouldn't it?

>>2694887
But I like the latinas....

>>2694763
For some funny reason, there was better law enforcement in the past when taxes were generally lower than they are now! Even in the most macro sense of going back to before we had modern polizei style law enforcement.

>>2691223
Because they won the war.

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>>2694537
>Yankees aren't turned on by this

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why are Northerners always such angry and dislikable people?

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>>2695232
>why are Northerners always such angry and dislikable people?
Cold weather makes people cranky.

>>2691233
>frogposter is a dixiefag
I'm shocked.

>>2693539
0 arguments lmao

>>2695232
>that pic
You can't support the CSA and still be a USA patriot, it's literally the antithesis of being an American patriot

>>2695302
the CSA and USA were both American you idiot

call them wrong, but the secessionists thought they were enacting the wills of the American idea

>>2695307
I mistyped, when I said American I meant USA-American (the two are interchangeable, even foreigners call us "Americans"). Why the hell is the dixieball waving a USA flag? Makes absolutely no sense.

>>2694990
>implying a steady diet of fried chicken and waffles doused in gravy produces this instead of Honey Boo Boos

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>>2695302
Wrong, the CSA stood for everything the Founding Fathers did. The Union victory was the first crippling blow to the Constitution that lead us down a dark path further down the line with Woodrow Wilson and later Vietnam.

CSA is quite literally America as it was intended to be. Not this European shithole it has become under the rule of fascists like Lincoln and Woodrow.

>>2695402
Dixieball waves the USA flag because the CSA are the last bastion of true American values and beliefs.

Also I'm from Massachusetts, just disillusioned from the lies other Yankee dogs are so satisfied to eat up.
Living in a horrid Authoritarian shithole where American values and culture have been appropriated by Communist dogs in favor of creating a second European Union has helped me traverse the path to enlightenment.

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Can you guys stop with the confederacy meme please. Everyday I have to deal with this dumb shit "Hue fuck midwest fuck southern states they're racist n shiet" when we probably have more racial diversity (not that I give a shit I don't care whether crackers niggers spics gooks or europoors are anywhere in large populations) South Carolina may have seceded first but it's a nice state (if you live in Columbia or non-ghetto areas) Just fuck off with the whole South is a shit hole meme we're not a shit hole
t. South Carolina
[spoiler] also you can't kill a 1/4 of the country and Lincoln wanted to send Black people back to Africa after the war [/spoiler]

>>2693527
Baptists conquered the frontier of the South in a way that most other churches did not. Presbyterian, Anglican, and Methodist churches are rare in areas, but hold historic footholds in cities.

From the 1970s onward, this is changing. Southern Baptists, specifically, are changing.

>>2695262
As a Southerner, I am envious of Yankee winters. Living in Mississippi is a far cry from Pennsylvania, New York, or hell even Virginia.

It's hot as fuck here.

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>>2695302
>allowing a corrupt federal state dictate your nationality
>not supporting the USA pre-1860
>not supporting the CSA 1860-1865
>not considering yourself a Jeffersonian patriot of the great state of North Carolina under occupation by a despotic globalist government
>not stockpiling guns and supplies on your self-sufficient homestead
>not producing a dozen beautiful white children with your faithful wife and raising them in the Baptist faith, a true american religion

I really pity you yankee brainlets sometimes

>>2695761
>that pic
>Southern culture
>not imported from Scotland and England

>>2695512
>chicken and waffles

you obviously know nothing about the south

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>>2695761
I fixed that for you.

>>2695824
>columbia
>nice

I'd rather not get jumped by a pack of nogs walking to my car from 5 points

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>>2692734
>If you actually read what a lot of the confederates wrote, you would find that they did have a weird paternalistic familial love relationship with their slaves.

i realize this place is 4chan but jesus fucking christ

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>>2691233
>all these butthurt yankees
>tfw you don't want to fight in your own war on the side of ultra corrupt industrialists and instead they have to send waves upon waves of irish immigrants to fight actual americans
>tfw you win because you employ war on your own countrymen and starve them to death in camps
>tfw Lincoln was actually willing to keep slavery in return for the South not seceding
>people still think the war was fought over slavery


Why are Yankees such retards?

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>>2696377
>omg i i cant even wow just wow

The majority of slaves were well kept you brainwashed moron. No they were not shot in lines and constantly beaten, no not everything you read in middle school was accurate.

>>>/r*ddit/

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>>2696377
go read some slave narratives. Slaves having a positive view of their masters was a common occurrence. Even Sherman was amazed by the amount of slaves who didn't want to leave their plantations.

>>2696416
>>2696426
If it was good for the slaves, why was it necessary to keep them in chains and pass the fugitive slave act.

The very premises of your argument defeat it.

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>>2696352
obesity among whites in the deep south isn't as bad as stereotypes make it seem.

>>2696405
>tfw Lincoln was actually willing to keep slavery in return for the South not seceding
>people still think the war was fought over slavery
It was fought because the south chimped out about slavery

>>2696443
Nice try, but I live in the south.

>>2696428
>some of the slaves wanted to flee
>that means all of them wanted to flee

Are you being stupid on purpose? Can Yankees not think in grand generalizations?

>>2696450
No

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>>2696416

>The majority of slaves were well kept
>Slaves
>Well kept
>Slaves

>>2696454
Well fuck, I guess one first hand account from some carpetbagger completely disproves the CDC.

>>2696464
Children are slaves senpai

>>2696464
>because every slave owner worked his slaves to death whipping them everytime they walked from one place to another
>dude have you seen Django Unchained?

At some point you're going to have to be less of a retard

>>2696457
Actually, I can generalize here.

This is a situation where generalization is entirely appropriate, when describing a definition of a word.

Every single slave in the entire south was being held against their will, because that's what the word slavery means.

I understand that moon pies and PBR aren't exactly brain fuel, but we aren't even doing 2 + 2 level math here, it's more like 2 = 2

>>2696475
>he said, after posting documentary evidence that southerners are fatter than northerners

Shouldn't you be breaking one of those plastic lawn chairs or putting another car up on blocks?

>>2696490
If you live in the south why are you calling me fat?

>>2696362
Yeah there's nogs here but there's not many, I've been to 5 points and it's not really an issue.

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>>2696480

>>2696504
Well, because it's the end of the semester and I have a very large amount of work that I should be doing, and I've decided to procrastinate by insulting people on the internet.

But yeah, the civil war was about slavery.

The people down here are really nice though. Great food.

>>2696485
How stupid are you, no you don't get to generalize in history you moron.

>they were slaves that means they were a priori beaten raped and starved every day just like in the movies!


They were well treated and many of them kept the last names of their former masters even after being freed. They were worse off during reconstruction than they were as slaves topkek your entire argument is "yeah well.. i bet you're a redneck"

I'm not even from the South or in the South you inbred New England faggot. Ever farmed in your life? You don't mistreat the cattle, and most of the time the cattle becomes like an extended family. Maybe that isn't the way the heavily industrialized farms of the new era are, but thats how it was back in the day.

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>>2696509
>Northern Intellectuals

>>2696521
Go back

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>>2696530
No.

>mfw I live in a purple state and vote straight ticket Democrat

>>2696521
>But yeah, the civil war was about slavery.

No it was about a corrupt northern government and heavy sectionalist tensions that dated back to the revolution according to any historian worth a damn.

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>>2696533
>tfw we all already knew you were a city dwelling liberal whose entire basis for understanding the world comes from a small microcosm of the world he never leaves

>>2696523
Maybe it's worth considering that a system in which a person can legally beat, rape, and kill another person with few to no restrictions or justification is a bad system.

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>>2696533
>mfw trump won your state and is in the whitehouse
>mfw Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III is your Attorney General

>>2696534
I mean, the actual instruments of secession explicitly mentioned slavery as the primary reason.

This is why I insult dixieboos, because you're ignoring primary sources in favor of the current flavor-of-the-month political narrative.

>>2696549
But I live in Virginia.

>>2696521
To deduce that the civil war was being merely about slavery is ignorant and arrogant.

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>>2696534

>>2696553
could you CIA shills be any more obvious?

>>2696553
please don't tell me you live in fucking NOVA or Richmond and are claiming to live in the south.

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>>2696555
muh slavery was always a pretext used by the north to extend its control. We should've listened to Jefferson.

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>>2696542
>beat, rape, and kill another person with few to no restrictions or justification is a bad system.

I'm not defending slavery, but most of the wouth weren't these ultra rich plantation owners and slaves were basically just housekeepers for the majority of middle class families in the south. The poorer classes resented the shit out of the slaves because you can't compete with literal slave labor.

What should've happened is the Northerners realized they were just being used by corrupt industrialists and kept the South alone to eventually abolish slavery by itself, and have the slaves sent back to their own people in an American colony in Africa like Liberia. No wars, no KKK, no carpet bagging, nothing.

Instead you retards shilled for the same people who would go on to hire Pinkertons to shoot you if complained about being over worked. Well fucking done. All you had to do was equalize representation in congress so the South wasn't being ruled over by proxy via people who never lived in the South and who robbed it blind. The Confederacy did nothing wrong.

>>2696554
It fits the facts.

It's easy to say "well it couldn't have been about just slavery" when you're a 21st century American trying to explain things from a 21st century mindset.

When the Civil War actually happened, slavery was to the South what the sea was to Venice. Absolutely everything.

To abolish it would mean basically everyone who mattered, in every facet of their society, would lose most of what they had. It would be the destruction of centuries worth of political and cultural development.

Now the North, the North went to war because they didn't think the republic would survive a partition. Not with the Europeans circling around the New World like vultures.

>>2696556
Actually I'm paid by the Clinton Foundation, they have me on a temp position until they get the Indians up to speed in English.

>>2696550
No it actually mentions states right first before slavery is even mentions. You Yankeeboos are pathetic

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

ctr + f + slavery

then ctr + f + govern itself

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>>2696583
>lives outside DC
>"let me tell you about the south"

>>2696598
Okay, let's do this shit

Georgia

>For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property

Mississippi

>Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

Texas

>She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association.

TL;DR Revisionist history is trash

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>>2696606
>lives in the 21st century
>let me tell you about the 1860s

>>2696617
>leaves out the rest of the reasons for secession based on states rights and property rights and representation in congress and all the other complaints that came alongside slavery

Why are yankees such sensationalist morons. Its not revisionist its called history, slavery was one of many issues but not the central issue. There was no one central issue there was a list of issue you copypasta reddit newfag.

Fucking an hero.

>>2696621
>was one of many issues

Okay.

What other issues?

>>2696624
Did you just not read the post you linked or at read at least the link to whole declaration of secession made by South Carolina?

Really?

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>>2694754
>Where the hell did we get a propaganda ministry? That's not in the budget!

>>2696626
I read the declaration.

They kept complaining about constitutional overreach, but they never explained what specifically they meant by that.

It's kind of crap legal writing, tee bee aytch.

>>2696618
I was referring this >>2696454

>>2696635
I know.

I'm saying, the cultural gap between 1860s South and modern South is bigger than between the modern North and modern South.

You shouldn't go into history assuming the people you're reading about are like you, or like the people you know personally, and I worry that you're doing that.

>>2696631
FFs if you read through all of the declarations of each confedeerate state the TLDR is

>muh states rights
>muh property rights
>muh slavery included
>muh spirit of 1776

Slavery was a big part of the reason why the Southt Seceded but it was nowhere near the only one. In the one of South Carolina they complain about the existence of the executive departments as a whole, each state had many different reasons it wanted to leave beyond just muh slaves

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>>2692428
>you will never live in a Balkanized America
>You will never live in a nation free of New York city shittery.

>>2696641
our comment chain was about obesity. idk wtf you're talking about anymore.

>>2696651
My understanding is that all of the issues go back to slavery at the core.

States rights when it benefits slavery, when they don't benefit slavery, you get the fugitive slave act.

Property rights for slavery.

Spirit of 1776, in that slavery wasn't under threat in 1776.

I can't really see examples of federal overreach, or any of these other issues, except with the specific institution of slavery.

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>>2696331
>tfw you'll never live this life

>>2696668
I'm not the guy you're fighting with but judging by what the republicans did to the south after the war, I'd probably fight against the union as well if I was a 1860's southerner.

You can't just join in a union with other sovereign states who helped you win independence and then try to economically and politically obliterate them as soon as you get the electoral advantage. The Republicans was the first geographically sectarian party in the US and didn't give a fuck about slaves unless it helped them. this is the truth >>2696574. The south's biggest mistake was not annihilating New England after the war of 1812.

>>2696668
Essentially northern industrialists were ensuring that the South couldn't industrialize and the South complained about high federal taxes, which they never had any ability to negate in congress because they were under represented in congress in term of the house due to sheer differences in population that swelled up around the industrialized North.

The South was unable to govern itself so they went full MUH 1776 WASNT ENOUGH and became extremists when it came to states rights and property rights, taxes and slavery going under property rights.

That is the overreach in a nutshell

>>2696694
>and then try to economically and politically obliterate them as soon as you get the electoral advantage

The thing is, the North was afraid of the South doing this to them.

Nobody pays attention to this fact. The North thought that if the South could literally just breed electoral votes, they'd be able to take over the country and have a handful of southern aristocrats dominate the entire political system.

The conflict between the North worrying about the South turning them into de facto slaves, and the South worrying about the North taking away their slaves is what created the Civil War.

Also, Buchanan was an awful president, the Kansas-Nebraska Act was a very poor idea, and Dredd v. Scott was wheelchair level retarded.

Blame Andrew Johnson being an incompetent drunkard, and John Wilkes Booth putting Andrew Johnson in power, for what Reconstruction turned into.

>>2696703
>Essentially northern industrialists were ensuring that the South couldn't industrialize

How?

Wouldn't high federal taxes effect the North and South equally?

>>2696713
>The thing is, the North was afraid of the South doing this to them.

Its called sectionalism

>The North thought that the South could just breed voters

3/5's compromise and there would never be enough slaves being bred on plantations for this matter based on how much immigration the North was willing to recieve. The North was just being hysterial and tried to drum up public anti-slavery sentiments for the purpose of keeping their monopoly on industry in the US going. The loss in voting power via the freeing of slaves (which again wouldn't be that much) was only one of many complaints the South had about the North. The South was also just culturally different from the North.

>>2696716
No, the South was poor as fuck pham, and the taxes were mainly placed around agricultural production. There wasn't income tax in the US until 1913.

It was the way the taxes were structured which pissed off the south, because to them it seemed obvious that the North was trying to rip them off, seeing as how most of these taxes would also not be seen in the South but would be invested in the central government to the North.

Sectionalism > slavery for reason the Civil War occured.

>>2696736
>3/5's compromise and there would never be enough slaves being bred on plantations for this matter based on how much immigration the North was willing to recieve

This is assuming the number of slave states remained the same as the number of free states.

Dredd Scott and the Kansas-Nebraska Act threw that out the window.

Both sides were afraid that the other would outmaneuver them in the race for new land, and more political power.

>or the purpose of keeping their monopoly on industry in the US going

How? Slave industries don't compete with anything the North did. That's the entire reason slavery died out in the North in the first place, slave industries weren't profitable there. If anything, cotton mills in the North complemented cotton fields in the South quite nicely.

>>2696713
>The thing is, the North was afraid of the South doing this to them.

this wasn't a valid concern other than random conspiracy theories. The south had the largest electorial power in 76' and it decreased since, the idea that they were going to harm the north is laughable. The slave population didn't grow any faster than the southern white population. The only evidence of the south ever trying to push slavery upon the north was the fugitive slave act which was just a reinforcement of an existing law passed by George Washington to uphold a clause of the Constitution. Not to mention the south had to compromise in order to pass a law which should have already been protected under the constitution.

>Blame Andrew Johnson being an incompetent drunkard, and John Wilkes Booth putting Andrew Johnson in power, for what Reconstruction turned into.

Andrew Johnson's reconstruction was fine and followed in the footsteps of what Lincoln envisioned. It was the radical republicans and their puppet Grant that destroyed the south by propping up corrupt governments in the south that were more worried about keeping power than actually reconstructing anything. Virginia was one of the only confederate states to resist the radical republicans which is why it came out of reconstruction the most stable and prosperous even though it suffered the most war damaged out of the CSA.

>>2696753
So I've been using my google box.

>Historians today generally agree that economic conflicts were not a major cause of the war. While an economic basis to the sectional crisis was popular among the "Progressive school" of historians from the 1910s to the 1940s, few professional historians now subscribe to this explanation.[47] According to economic historian Lee A. Craig, "In fact, numerous studies by economic historians over the past several decades reveal that economic conflict was not an inherent condition of North-South relations during the antebellum era and did not cause the Civil War."[48]

>When numerous groups tried at the last minute in 1860–61 to find a compromise to avert war, they did not turn to economic policies. The three major attempts at compromise, the Crittenden Compromise, the Corwin Amendment and the Washington Peace Conference, addressed only the slavery-related issues of fugitive slave laws, personal liberty laws, slavery in the territories and interference with slavery within the existing slave states.[49]

This is making sense to me. If it was about taxes, I'd expect to see it right there in the primary sources. The American Revolution was largely about taxes, and nobody was shy about saying it at the time.

>>2696772
>The only evidence of the south ever trying to push slavery upon the north

What the North was afraid of was the South pushing slavery west, and thus turning the union into little more than a collection of southern plantation interests.

The conflict over slavery in the western United States is what directly led to the Civil War.

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>>2696756
>How? Slave industries don't compete with anything the North did. That's the entire reason slavery died out in the North in the first place, slave industries weren't profitable there. If anything, cotton mills in the North complemented cotton fields in the South quite nicely.

It's an extremely long read but pic related is a great economic reason why the south was better off without the north.

>>2696790
>The South, Midwest, and Northeast had quite different economic structures. They traded with each other and each became more prosperous by staying in the Union, a point many businessmen made in 1860–61. However Charles A. Beard in the 1920s made a highly influential argument to the effect that these differences caused the war (rather than slavery or constitutional debates). He saw the industrial Northeast forming a coalition with the agrarian Midwest against the Plantation South. Critics challenged his image of a unified Northeast and said that the region was in fact highly diverse with many different competing economic interests. In 1860–61, most business interests in the Northeast opposed war[citation needed].

>After 1950, only a few mainstream historians accepted the Beard interpretation, though it was accepted by libertarian economists.[54] As Historian Kenneth Stampp—who abandoned Beardianism after 1950, sums up the scholarly consensus:[55] "Most historians...now see no compelling reason why the divergent economies of the North and South should have led to disunion and civil war; rather, they find stronger practical reasons why the sections, whose economies neatly complemented one another, should have found it advantageous to remain united."[56]

Is it wrong that I trust wikipedia on this?

Like, it makes sense to me on a surface level.

>South has plantations
>North has mills
>plantations make cotton
>mills make cotton into cloth

>>2696630
Hollywood consistently portrays itself and California as shitty though.

>>2696756
>If anything, cotton mills in the North complemented cotton fields in the South quite nicely.

Nigger you can't be serious, Cotton production was only profitable if you were a wealthy plantation owner who could grow enough of it.

>Both sides were worried

The reason the war occured in the South and not the North was because of a power vacuum caused by differences in population and because most of the south were just a bunch of poor farmers barely getting by, which slavery in no way helped. The North had all the power, ignored the South's complaints about equal representation in congress for the two obsiouly divided sections of the countries, and were the first to try and maneuver anything

Why are Americans so obsessed with race? I've been living here for a few years and the stereotypes of blacks and Hispanics are way out of proportion with what I see in day to day life.

>>2696816
>ignored the South's complaints about equal representation in congress

Define "equal"

Because the South got Representatives and electoral votes for people who weren't legally considered human.

If anything, the North was the one getting shafted.

>>2696781
Wikipedia a shit, when you copyast from their always pasta the sources in the [ ] instead.

But besides that, what you posted is first of all just expressing the current zeitgeist of modern historians and an appeal to the majority as being a priori correct is a logical fallacy. Second of all just because they didn't expressly state in the original secessions of all the state in 1860-61 does not mean that breaking away from the Union tacitly implies that you will, i don't know, not pay federal taxes to a foreign state?

Granted it was more about personal liberty than economics, but economics still played a key role in the whole scenario.

>>2696813
Thats not how economics works, especially during industrialization. First of all the South did not grow only cotton, they had a diversified agricultural economy and for the most part cotton was horded by large plantation owner. Second of all its a kind of an archetype among industrialization periods of countries for agriculture to get fucked over for corporate interests.

>>2696813
yes that was the initial desire when southerners first pushed for tariffs under the monroe administration. Basically to help the north industrialize. However it disproportionately hurt the south over the north, something southerners in 1810's were willing to cope with due to a strong sense of nationalism following of the war of 1812, even Calhoun campaigned for it.

However the south being an export economy didn't necessarily need to be attached to the north. They would be just as economically well off selling to europe. The tariffs protected northern industry from European competition but didn't protect southern industries from northern competition. It did nothing for the south other than increase taxes on foreign imports. The south would have been much better off economically independent and controlling its own fiscal policy. Compound those economic reasons with the north's increasing abolitionist movement and loose interpretation of the constitution and why even stay in a union that wasn't serving your interests.

>>2696847
>Second of all just because they didn't expressly state in the original secessions of all the state in 1860-61

That's extremely strong evidence that they didn't care. The people who made the decision are more qualified to explain their reasoning than people a century later. An equally strong piece of evidence is the fact that there was no sustained campaign by the south to reduce agricultural taxes, although there was a strong one to extend slavery into the new western states.

>Granted it was more about personal liberty than economics

What personal liberty was the federal government violating in the South?

>>2696839
As in there were way more members of the House naturally from the North and the only reason the Democrats had as many representatives as they did was due to the 3/5's compromise?

Ultimately neither side was completely right or wrong about the reason they got into the war if thats where you want to go, but no the North was not being shafted.

>>2696866
How did Northern Industrialists benefit from harming the Southern economy, and how did they do it?

>>2696886
>However the south being an export economy didn't necessarily need to be attached to the north. They would be just as economically well off selling to europe

The North was an enormous market for cotton, and it was right next to the south.

>The tariffs protected northern industry from European competition but didn't protect southern industries from northern competition.

The reason that slavery wasn't legal in the north is that slave industry wasn't profitable in the north. By definition, slave agriculture in the south was never in any danger from northern competition.

>The south would have been much better off economically independent and controlling its own fiscal policy.

What policy?

>and loose interpretation of the constitution

How?

>>2694754
>San Diego
>good
Gotta be joking faggot.

>>2696899
>As in there were way more members of the House naturally from the North

There's a similar imbalance today, and I feel that it is horrific.

Alaska only gets one representative in the House of Representatives, and those bastards in the lower 48 get more than 500.

>>2696652
>perfect borders
My ass. Cascadia would involve Northern Oregon while Southern Oregon and Northern Cali would form their own state.

Unless you mean "perfect borders without making new ones," in which case it's fine I guess.

>>2696888
>That's extremely strong evidence that they didn't care.

They were leaving the Union wtf do you think that means? That means "we're not paying taxes to you anymore"

>no campaign by the south to reduce taxes

it was more about where the taxes were going than the high taxes themselves.

>>2696934
>wtf do you think that means?

I think it means "there are 2.8 billion dollars worth of slaves held in my country, and this is 1860; a two dollar whore is the expensive kind."

I find this to be a more compelling explanation for a war than "we're getting screwed by nefarious northern industrialists in ways we've never bothered to really explain"

>>2696921
"perfect borders without making new ones" is what I meant, Cascadia obviously needs chunks of Southwest Canda

>>2696910
>The North was an enormous market for cotton, and it was right next to the south.
yes and the south still wanted to sell to them after independence just like they did to Europe.

>By definition, slave agriculture in the south was never in any danger from northern competition.
I meant manufacturing industry. The south was actually industrializing during the 1850's but faced tough competition from northern products.

>What policy?

well I imagine the southern democrats would push for a laissez faire system while southern whigs would push for tariffs and infrastructure to help the south.

>>2696958
>there are 2.8 billion dollars worth of slaves held in my country

Controlled by less than 1% of the South

>we never bothered to explain

Again this a logical fallacy, you are making an appeal based on hearsay and not actual evidence. Post actual evidence and not a TLDR from wikipedia please, because if you honestly think that there was no way economics played into the matter and their was no economic resentment on either side, well you'd better be able to prove it because thats very compelling to me that its a given.

>>2696839
The north had a powerful majority in the house by this point, idk why the 3/5th issue even mattered. Don't forget the slaves were counted as 3/5ths when it came time for the states to pay taxes by population as well so it was a double edged sword.

The South only had a comparable voting power in the senate and wanted to keep that parity.

>>2696967
>The south was actually industrializing during the 1850's but faced tough competition from northern products.

See, that's a completely reasonable explanation.

If you'd said that at the beginning of this circlejerk I probably wouldn't have called you fat or stupid.

>>2696921
>Jefferson
Can anybody explain to me why conservatives think an independent California will never work yet think Jefferson won't immediately collapse without Californias tax base?

>>2697000
well, I think you're arguing with like 2 other people and I said it in my previous post >>2696886.

>>2697011
because Jefferson would still have the federal government for gibs. I'm sure it would be poor as shit but better off than a independent california.

>>2697011
Probably because Jefferson won't be spending half their budget on state-funded tranny clinics.

The desert counties of southeastern Cali should join Arizona/Nevada, the northernmost counties should merge with Oregon and the rest of that shithole state should be spammed with nukes and sank into the Pacific.

>>2697011
I don't think they think that far ahead. It's more of a "we want our lines dictated by our joint subculture," thing.

I'm in far-Northern WA, and honestly think that the world would be a better place if secessionists everywhere were given a chance to vote over it and have their choice respected; either their state fails and they ask to come back to the fold, or their state succeeds and everyone is happy.

>>2692688
>>2693541
>>2693560
Why are you SJWs mad that the white proletariat rose up against a bunch of nigger capitalists?

>>2697026
Probably because Jefferson won't be spending half their budget on state-funded tranny clinics
Is this another one of those "alt-facts"

>>2697050
>the rest of that shithole state should be spammed with nukes and sank into the Pacific
But then where will the union get their gibmedats?

>>2697086
That's all perfectly fine, I just want to ask Jefferson supporters. "Will the liberal segments of the population also be allowed to cleave their own state out of Jefferson?"

>>2697087
Because it wasn't about overthrowing capitalists. It was anger at uppity niggers who needed to be put in their place because of their race. It was plain old racism.

>>2697124
>alt-facts
Hillary fuck off.

>>2697124
If those segments manage a vote in the positive, I say go for it.

>>2697125
>this is what white guilt faggots tell themselves
Kill yourself

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>>2697125
>proletariat revolting against capitalists is desirable
>but ONLY if the capitalists are white

>>2697134
How is not treating people like trash because of something they have no control over white guilt?

>>2697140
I'm not a communist, I'm just refuting the dude's original point that it was some sort of class based riot.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't treat people like shit because of their race.

>>2697146
>something they have no control over
Someone forced them to get rich?

>>2697146
You white guilt faggots are treating white people like trash to appease your SJW and nigger Mlmasters

>>2697156
Fuck off tumblr.

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>>2697146
Why do you SJWs want to give nonwhites the advantage in White countries?

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>>2691223
Because it's more fun to burn them.

>>2697198
I remember my high school teacher was pulled over by a state trooper in Georgia. The trooper asked him if he knew how fast he was going. He responded that it probably wasn't as fast as Sherman.

>>2697131
The problem is that democracy cannot survive if anybody can just fuck off at any time. It's built on a foundation of being able to acquiesce when an election is lost. Without that the government straight up doesn't function.

we kinda did on separate occasions

>>2697162
They don't really want anything, it's a simulation of meaningful existence pushed by elites. SJW's aren't really thinking species, they are more like mindless followers of whatever they been told is good.
That's why I usually avoid arguments with them, it is pointless.

because if you did literally anything more youd have been hung yourself by virtually every other power around, france uk mexico russia, when did canada get dominion status? hell even canada would have taken you the fuck out.

>>2697633
Are you literally retarded? Hanging traitors was par of the course for that era. Hell they doled out hangings for just about everything.

>>2697702
>muh traitors meme

they were never prosecuted therefore they aren't traitors. The union dropped all charges because they didn't want to retread the legality of secession in a court room packed with national and international journalists.

>>2697833
>they were never prosecuted therefore they aren't traitors
My shoplifting arrest never led to a court case. That means I'm not a thief!

>>2697087
I'm not sure what my post had to do with being an SJW or commies, but wew

>>2698075
guess they are just trying to change the subject because they can't argue

>>2691233
I didn't realize smoking meth and not having half your teeth was considered "culture"

Who cares? The real question is why didn't we ship all the negroes back to Africa?

>>2698109
>>2698075
Tulsa deserved to burn, you cuck faggots

>>2698071
Well, if you were arrested for shoplifting something you had had the right to take, that's probably why you didn't get prosecuted. Funny how just mentioning the civil war will turn even the most left wing Yankee into a massive bootlicker.

>>2696377
I said it was weird, didn't I? You don't really know how slavery worked or was like, huh?

If you want to know more about the slavery ideology of the masters and what not, I would recommend "Roll, Jordan, Roll" by Eugene Genovese (a Marxist.)

Going on about the actual conditions of Slavery in the New World >>2696464 >>2696485 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Noir it was stuff like this in France, Spain, and Portugal that made it the worst it was probably going to get. Generally that was because it is never fun cutting sugar, but it isn't fun doing that as a free man anyway.

Slaves in the British West Indies were treated better than in those places, and Slaves in the American South were treated better than Slaves in the British West Indies. And In the American South itself, it was in the deep South (Sugar Plantations), where Slaves were worst treated. There's a reason America didn't succumb to Haiti-level genocide once the Slaves were free (part of that was that a quarter of the black population died of starvation/disease in the period during and after the civil war)

>>2699117
>(a Marxist)
So you're just recommending SJW trash now?

>>2699174
Genovese was an old style Marxist, hated gays probably, all that sort of stuff. He wrote his book in the 60's, and it changed his worldview after a while too.

>>2696652
>oklahoma not part of Dixie
>Not giving Texas all its original clay
>West Virginia in Dixie
It's shit

>>2696652
>Hawaii and Alaska part of a united States that dissolved after the civil war.

>>2698658
May I ask why it deserved to burn?

>>2699325
bourgeois deserve to be killed, porky historians have tried change the narrative

>>2699362
Except the entire start of the Tulsa race riot was literally over race. Some black dude was accused of raping a white girl (an event even the police questioned) and shit spiraled out of control.

There was no anti-class narrative in the event. It was literally an entirely race motivated event.

>>2699401
Race is the most important type of class, and you SJWs want to destroy the white class

>>2691223
Because they're not traitors.

Their interpretation of what America was as an EU-style framework of naiton-states was correct.

It's just that Lincoln refused to give up those fertile highly-productive agricultural regions, and he and his party ran the government the Obama way of "I am the law so fuck yor rights," so he started a bloody war where there was a peaceful secession.

i think most of these threads are started by enemies of america as bait to foster division.

the ole divide and conquer bit

>>2700934
I think it's far more likely that America is simply multiple tribes that hate each other no matter what.

>>2701018
>tribes?
no, that's not it.
i'm old enough to remember a time when you could travel to ANY part of america, and have a civil (no pun intended) conversation (in english) with the first random person you happen to speak with.
not so much now.
tribalism is not the cause.
more likely the rise of the interwebs, and everybody's desire to give their opinion on...well you name it.

>>2696485
>PBR
>the south
are you even American? Dumb faggot. That's Yank brew.

>>2701269
the interwebs is REINVIGORATING tribalism.
Do you not know what tribalism fucking is?

>>2693541
>holding southerners responsible for Oklahoma
you're a fucking retard haha
do you even know what states were part of the confederacy? I bet you think Texas is a southern state.

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>>2691223
Because they were loyal to their state governments before the federal government?

Be a traitor to your state or your union cause civil war, damned by lawyers and stupid faggots either way.

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>>2703259
>med packs are more american than the Yankees

feels bad man

>>2699650
>Shell a federal fort
>muh peaceful sucession

>>2703088

>I bet you think Texas is a southern state.

How is it not? It's both geographically southern and was part of the Confederacy in the Civil War.

>>2699650
Fuck the legal interpretation. Geopolitically, Lincoln made the right call. Why should we allow a foreign hostile nation to sprout up next to us, beholden to foreign credit and markets, along with millions of dollars of military equipment and federal investment?

>>2699650
>where there was a peaceful secession
Yes, the south very peacefully laid siege to Fort Sumter.

>>2705248
round and round we go...ad infinitum.

>>2705553
>I say that the earth is flat
>he says that the earth is round
>I guess there's no way to no for sure, it's just a matter of personal opinion
>maybe he should learn to be more open minded