How did the Islamic Slave Trade compare to the European Slave Trade ?

>>2686224
What one did by sea, the other did by land. I think that's about it. Even the numbers kinda mirror each other.

>>2686224
In what regard? Numbers? There were more slaves circulated in the Muslim slave trade than the Atlantic. The treatment of slaves was a lot worse in the Atlantic slave trade though.

Arabs castrated every black male they took

>>2686249
source?
Doesn't pass the sniff test really, Arabs are as a rule more brutal than Western Euros.

>>2686249
Numbers, Deaths, Brutality

>>2686224
Quite different. Arab slavery was pretty much identical to Greek or Roman slavery, with slaves generally used for domestic work rather than manual labor. They seem to have been far more integrated into society, although brutal mistreatment was still common.

Unlike in America, slaves brought to the Middle East never formed a permanent subjugated class. Many slaves did not reproduce, and those that did generally had children with free men. These children would also be free.

Many famous Muslims, even Muslim rulers, were born to slave mothers. Racial conceptions prevented this from happening in the Americas.

>>2686327
Really? Then why do quotes exist of Muslims talking shit about blacks?

>>2686224

It last five times as long and involved roughly ten times the number of slaves. But because ~half of these were white Europeans, no-one cares.

>>2686286
>>2686249

Was it tho? The Arabs accepted a 90% death rate from their black male slaves (the survival rate of castration without modern medicine) whereas the Atlantic trade involved around 50% losses.

It was worse. 90 % death rate and is still ongoing today

>>2686345
He's being an apologist to an extent. He's underplaying the use of slavery as manual labor (as if greek and roman slaves weren't used on farmlands or in construction) and overlooking eunuch and concubinage culture.

He's right to say they were less racialist than europeans though. Also arab slave trade is far less well documented than the TAST because arabs began theira as early as the 800s and there is an immense anount of stuffnot recorded as thoroughly. Ultimately it's splitting hair, we're still talking about the mass enslavement of millions whether by europeans or by arabs .

>>2686417
Slavery existed around the world in every culture. I don't know why blacks act like special snowflakes in this regard.

MUSLISMS ARE ALL ENLIGHTENED, THERE WASN'T ANY SLAVERY ON THE MIDDLE EAST.

YOU ALL MUS BE MISINFORMED.

T. João Verde.

>>2686441
There is no "Verde" surname in portuguese.
t. Brazillian

>>2686456
>José Rodrigues Vale, que usaria literariamente o pseudónimo de João Verde nasceu, em Monção em 2 de Novembro de 1866.

Seppuku when, my compatriot?

>>2686383
This

>>2686427
because white people are inherently evil in the eyes of libtards and this is used as justification

>>2686327
They literally never formed a class because they were all fucking de-nutted

>>2686783
There were still fertile women

>>2686327
I don't get why racism is considered the worst evil, the arab slaves were treated FAR worse, why is racism even relevant to the situation?

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>1609, the Portuguese missionary João dos Santos reported that one such group had a "custome to sew up their females, especially their slaves being young to make them unable for conception, which makes these slaves sell dearer, both for their chastitie, and for better confidence which their masters put in them."

>Since Roman times, long convoys had transported slaves as well as all sorts of products to be used for barter. To protect against attacks from desert nomads, slaves were used as an escort. Any who slowed down the progress of the caravan were killed.

>It grew to involve over 500,000 slaves and free men who were imported from across the Muslim empire and claimed over "tens of thousands of lives in lower Iraq".[13] The Zanj who were taken as slaves to the Middle East were often used in strenuous agricultural work.[14] As the plantation economy boomed and the Arabs became richer, agriculture and other manual labor work was thought to be demeaning. The resulting labor shortage led to an increased slave market. Their jobs were to clear away the nitrous topsoil that made the land arable. The working conditions were also considered to be extremely harsh and miserable.

>>2686839
BUT, there was no racial discrimination so it's all good

>>2686803
>>2686845
because race was an aspect of the TAST that wasn't present for the most part in the arab slave trade
no one is saying it's all good, just that it was a different kind of slavery

>>2686224
They castrated slaves to keep demand high
Only Haiti was worse in treatment though

>>2686254

>>2686224
I have no knowledge of it but I know white people were the worst at everything and I am sure it was their CULTURE which makes everything ok

>>2686868
do you have anything meaningful to add or are you just gonna whine

>>2686851
>its worse if you only take from one race
>racism is the worst thi g in the cosmos

I want rebbit to leave

>>2686875
No.

>>2686883
you have to actually be retarded to have reading comprehension that is this poor

Not as cool

>>2686886
I think I may be retarded

>>2686893
good to know

>>2686224
Well it lasted for 1200 years and was far more brutal.
Saudi arabia is still a hub for slavery. but now its more philipinos than africans.

>>2686249
>Atlantic
General abuse, more displacement, rape of females
>Muslim
General abuse, some displacement, much more rape of females, castration of males (without anesthesia beyond maybe getting them drunk or something, and I imagine they cauterized the wound too)
Also, it lasted longer, began earlier, involved peoples from all over the known world, and so on. It's also on-going still, technically.

>>2686417
>mass enslavement of millions
Idk about Arabs bruh, but the Europeans bought pre-enslaved slaves from Kangz

>>2687088
Sure I agree, my wording probably didn't reflect that. I was mostly talking about the mass number of slaves being traded though, not particularly who did the capturing first. Ibn Battuta gave a similar account when he talked about the slave markets of SSA by the way. Only tards believe every slave brought to baghdad or haiti was captured by those empires - they simply bought them.

>>2686427
>>2686632
Because they were the slaves of the culture in which you currently reside. Where the shit would you ever even find a Hindu slave to even talk about it with?

>>2686327
This is a bit biased my man

>>2687254
This isn't a valid argument or anything even resembling it

>>2686345
Almost all of these quotes come from geographies which in the Classical tradition of the Ancient Greeks played up stereotypes defined by climate zones. It was less concerned about racial hierarchies within Middle Eastern society and more focused on creating a distinction between civilization and foreign barbarians.

>>2686224
The same way being beaten to death compares to scaphism.

Far more brutal, everyone was castrated, the scale per capita was much higher. It also still exists today in modified form and the current migration crises is a goldmine for sexual slavers, but also just plain labor slavers too.

How come Arabs don't feel Arab guilt? They basically did everything that white people did but worse.

>>2687424
Because white guilt was all engineered

>>2687321
Allow me to spoon feed you.
The fact that you perceive that the common conscious mostly views blacks as the victims of slavery and not others, is that you most likely reside in the western world in which the grand majority of slaves (when it was allowed) were blacks. Thus I am answering the question

> I don't know why blacks act like special snowflakes in this regard.

Is because our current culture has no frame of reference for slavery outside of the Trans Atlantic Trade.

As a side note "Not an argument" is a buzzword which means "I have no idea what I am talking about so I will derail the conversation to save face".

>>2687424
because christianity

>>2687441
"Not an argument" is not even close to a buzzword, it's just a useful way to call out the other person being retarded without expending much effort

>>2687424
Because 'White Guilt' is meant to swing back against triumphant chauvinism, and the Arabs haven't had much to celebrate lately. No time for constructs when there's plenty of natural, grassroots resentment to go around.

Apparently Europeans were enslaved by the Arabs is this true ?

>>2687472
Yes, barbary coast pirates used to raid the Mediterranean settlements and bring back slaves to be sold at the Istanbul slave market. Note they weren't specifically targetting westerners but islamic law protected muslim states/citizens, so in practice it ended being mostly europeans being captured/enslaved.
Estimates put the number of euro slaves around the 1-1.25million mark.

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"To overdraw its evils is a simple impossibility ... We passed a slave woman shot or stabbed through the body and lying on the path. [Onlookers] said an Arab who passed early that morning had done it in anger at losing the price he had given for her, because she was unable to walk any longer.

"We passed a woman tied by the neck to a tree and dead ... We came upon a man dead from starvation ... The strangest disease I have seen in this country seems really to be broken heartedness, and it attacks free men who have been captured and made slaves".

David Livingstone

>>2687424
No sizable African minority left afterwards to remind them.

>>2687530
We exist

But we don't care

>>2687441
Most slaves in the West have been White by modern definition.

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>>2687472
yes

>>2687849
And what definition is that? Is this another "I have to work a 9-5 to support myself, that means I'm oppressed" thread"

>>2687472
Middle Eastern slavers raided Europe for centuries. Entire Mediterranean towns were depopulated. Over a million European were enslaved or killed over hundreds of years, and maybe over 10 million people total. Per capita it was probably the worst thing next to the Mongols.

People say "literally Hitler" all the time but he was a small fry compared to shit people apparently don't know even happened thanks to garbage education systems.

>>2686383
>The Arabs accepted a 90% death rate from their black male slaves (the survival rate of castration without modern medicine)

Did the arabs castrate every male prisoner? I seriously doubt that. At most household slaves, even then I'd not be surprised if it was some stupid Ottoman emperor shit.

>>2686327
Didn't Egypt and Iraq have a military caste made up of Caucasian slave-soldiers? They ended up forming ruling dynasties. That certainly constitutes a class. Wasn't there a similar situation with Turkic slave soldiers in Northern India?

>>2687849
Not if you live in the US. Most slaves were black or native.

>>2686919
>slavery still ongoing technically
>technically
The word should be literally.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-auctions-un-migration

>>2687896
Nothing compares to what the aborigines and amerindians went through. An entire race was nearly wiped out. Yes a lot was disease but the other stuff was unnecessary.

>>2687864
Slavs, Irish, Meds, Germanics and balts have all been enslaved throughout history. Western Europe had relatively little negro slaves by comparison. The other parts of Europe had virtually zero negro slaves.

>>2687524
>>2687853
>>2687896
Interesting. I was never taught this

>>2687932
90% was wiped out by disease, mate. Most were dead before Europeans even knew they existed. Just like Black Death wiped out 2/3s of Europes pop. It simply decimated the Amerindian pop.

>>2687932
>unintentional biological warfare
that really couldn't be helped though, would have happened even if the conquistadors arrived waving a white flag and bringing gifts

>the other stuff was unnecessary
Of course, and that's probably a lot of what taints our view of it. But the casualties were nothing compared to what the diseases did.

>>2687937
check this first before jumping to conclusions though, it's often used by /pol/tards as propaganda and they distort the data to make it seem larger than it was. It was still fucking awful but there's no need to make it seem larger than it was with ridiculous estimates like "10million" or whatever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

>>2687927
It's not a systematic enslavement now, so it's only technically. The Ottomans are gone.

>>2687999
As of a few days ago that's no longer true. Erdogan is the new sultan, basically.

>>2687967
>facts ruin our black victim complex
Sorry mate. But the world is rarely Black and White. No pun intended.

>>2687935
I think we might have wound up on the wrong page. When the first poster complained about "black victim complex" (which I don't even know where hes getting that. I can't remember the last time anybody un-ironically wanted reparations or anything like that and was taken seriously). I assumed he lived in the Americas since that is the only place which has both large black populations and ones which were touched by the slave trade. I built my assumptions on the cultural conscious therein.

Yes you are right. If we are talking about Europe proper then the groups you mentioned got the shit-stick something fierce and the collective conscious would remember slavery in terms of the Slavs, Irish, Meds, Germanics and Balts.

Though the "blacks were the only slaves" types probably live in america and have a shitty american education and wouldn't know of any other slave trade other than Americas.

>>2686224
European Slave Trade: Primarly owned by Jews (in fact, 95% of slave ship owners/traders were Jews)
Islamic Slave Trade: owned by Muslims (obviously)

>>2688114
>>facts ruin our black victim complex
Not a kang so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Barbary corsairs were a fucking pain for centuries but compared to the other two major slave trades, it was not on the same scale.

I don't have a problem with calling out the ottomans for enabling it, but throwing around figures like 10millions from the barbary trade is just nonsense.

>>2688328
>Primarly owned by Jews (in fact, 95% of slave ship owners/traders were Jews)
Source?

>>2686224

Pretty well, in fact it's still in practice.

>>2688358
10 million is from total slavery, not exclusively Barbary. Read the actual post. The Arab world got slaves from all over, try not to be so eurocentric.

>>2688379
Oh well I misread your post, seemed like we were talking about the westerners who got enslaved, not the whole scope of it >>2687472

In that case the 10million estimate is definitely more than generous, I thought it was around the 15million watermark even in the most conservative estimations. Some even say 28millions but that does sound quite a bit farfetched.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1523100.stm

>>2688234
Except blacks over here still consider themselves victims of slavery, and the collective conscious views whites as former slave owners, and blacks as former slaves, regardless of nationality.

t. yuropean

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>>2686345
Who said anything about blacks? Muslim slaves were from both sides of the Atlantic and were often European.

But even the black ones weren't treated much like African slaves in the West. Prince Bandar al Saud's mother was a literal black slave but he's not considered different from other royalty. This would have been totally unthinkable in the USA. Not even a large landowner would have named a half black child as their heir.

>>2688400
That's because many are immigrants from the Caribbeans, so they do carry that slave lineage back with them.

>>2688424
No, it's mostly Somalis, who ironically, where pretty big into the slave trade in Africa before the Europeans came about.

>>2686803
Arabs slaves weren't treated worse though, there's no evidence of that. Even USA slaves, who were substantially better off than the majority of their Brazilian and Caribbean contemporaries, had less observable autonomy and legal value than slaves in the Islamic world.

Slavery in the Middle East was a rough legal designation containing extremely variant ways of life, from galley and field slaves comparable to black slaves in the Americas to concubines, diplomats, and even military commanders who had more power and practical autonomy than the vast majority of free people. Enslavement did not carry the same social connotations, and slave status was only inherited if the father was also a slave.

Arabs however did castrate a lot of their male slaves. Difficult to know how often this happened. Enough slaves were born into slavery that there had there had to have been tons who weren't castrated. From what I can tell, the only castrated slaves were those serving around women. This seems to have been a Byzantine practice adopted several centuries into the Islamic period.

>>2688439
>somali immigrants
sven detected

but yeah I can see what you mean, here in britain most of our blacks are caribbeans but they rarely play that card tbqh. Probably because they've been here for generations and we have that commonwealth meme going in order to keep things friendly n shiet.

>>2687254
But it's not the same culture today, is it?

>>2686224
It would be way better to be an slave under Islam than an American slave. The whole "castration" thing is a meme. Just as many were castrated then under America.

>>2686249
Are you serious all of the black males were castrated and all of the women were sold into Harems. Even more of them died on the journey east than west in both overall numbers and proportion.

The most the Atlantic slaves got was the occasional whip/ small pox

>>2686268
>Arabs are as a rule more brutal than Western Euros

Have you ever heard of the Crusades?

>>2688885
Have you ever heard of the Ummayad Caliphate? Ever heard of the Ottoman Empire? Ever heard of the original expansion of Islam with mohammed as their literal god emperor of mankind?

Holy shit the crusades par in comparison. Although to be fair they are both expansionist proto-jewish religions (and Judaism itself is insanely violent)

But even in non-religious terms Arabs are far more violent than whites.

>inb4 list muh small pox killing 90% of the indios in North and South America
>inb4 muh world wars

Had arabs the same kind of technology they would've nuked the whole world by now.

>>2688885
The crusades weren't even competent enough to accomplish anything

>>2687911
>Did the arabs castrate every male prisoner?
Yes you dumbfuck. Just because you "doubt" it doesn't make it any less true.

>>2686224
People are funny, Most of the guys on this thread are bitching about of how arab slave trade is worse and more brutal, just to talk shit on muslims which is funny considering that muslims were the minority and most people doing the work(most of it, in all braches of the state) were local jews and christians and muslims became a majority 400 to 600 later.

>>2689045
Actually its the the other way around, muslims did it first then Christians came later.

>>>/reddit/

Where is all this /r/athiesm coming from?

>>2689080
>Muslims brought slavery 1400 years ago
Damn, you are so retarted that its rare and exotic

>>2688920
Seriously >implying

>>2688907
>Ever heard of the Ottoman Empire

You mean where Jews found refuge and was peaceful 90% of the time for Christians, Muslims and Jews

In Fukuyama's "Origin of Political Order" he argues that the Ottoman's use of slaves as civil servants was crucial in their vitality as a civilization and society.

It's pretty interesting. Apparently the Ottoman empire used castrated slaves selected of the smartest healthiest youths from throughout its empire to fill its governmental positions. They were treated extremely well, educated and trained, and entrusted with the functioning of Ottoman rule at all levels in a meritocratic system.

>>2689142
Yeah, except for, you know, those genocides. Peaceful.

>>2689244

>It's pretty interesting. Apparently the Ottoman empire used castrated slaves selected of the smartest healthiest youths from throughout its empire to fill its governmental positions. They were treated extremely well, educated and trained, and entrusted with the functioning of Ottoman rule at all levels in a meritocratic system.

I don't think castration was applied across the board to male slaves in the Ottoman empire. It wouldn't have made much sense to castrate the janissaries, for example.

>>2689142

>I make things up that aren't true

shame on you

>>2686224
Slaves were allowed to rise through the social classes instead of remaining slaves forever like the Europeans did. Many kings and commanders in the Muslim armies were born of slaves.

>>2689045
They talk about how brutal it was because there was nothing else wrong with it. You have to whine about what you can get.

If you knew how to read and write, and pleased your masters you could eventually be put in an administrative role and by the end of your life be quite wealthy, insofar as you were still technically a slave and everything you owned could be taken away at any time by the dude who owned you.

>>2689396
Then the dude who owned you was a king, and taking away your stuff was already his right.

I would have preferred to have been a Christian slave in the Ottoman Empire rather than a Turk. Far more social mobility.

>>2689142
>the ottomans were peaceful towards super rich Jewish merchants, this must be the famed "muh ottoman tolerance" I've heard so much about on reddit!
fuck off, turkroach

>>2689420
But Islamic law says you have to protect the chosen people of the book.

Slavery was very different, un european slave trade something seemed to have been lost in translation and it ended up being the most brutal form of slavery up to that point(the nazis would be worse), it was taken from the byzantine system of indentured servants however with much worse living conditions

>>2688444
>Arabs slaves weren't treated worse though, there's no evidence of that.
>Arabs however did castrate a lot of their male slaves.
I can't get how someone can be an apologist this hard

>>2686475
>Pseudônimo
So, an alias... Kill yourself.

>>2689787
womyn opression > male opression

>>2688328
Lol, yea gonna need source on the 95% claim

>>2688234
>I can't remember the last time anybody un-ironically wanted reparations
https://youtu.be/9HH7XhludDs

>>2689820
Because Arabs have never been known to take a bunch of women against their will, lock them up in their house, and rape them till they croak

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>>2686254
false, a lot of black slaves married other slaves and had slave children... just many fewer than in America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten