American Republic vs. American Empire

>>2659859
Harder to call the US an empire without the phillipines and cuba

>>2659880
I meant are we in decline along the lines of the Roman Empire or British Empire with an overextended foreign policy, or if we're going to reform our politics to an imperial system like the Roman Republic did so it could more effectively govern/expand its territory?

>>2659888

The US Empire by invitation has been in decline since 1990. Joe Schlub is starting to notice.

>>2659893
But will we collapse along the lines of the Roman Empire or reform from the Republic into the Empire?

Power concentrating into few families would be a passable sign (Like Bush and Clinton). But actually the power lies in business world.

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>>2659859
>awaiting a Caesar
>awaiting

Late republic would be my guess, you already have a Gracchi brother and Marius and Sulla (with less violence).

>>2659859

It's just laughable conceit to compare the USA to Rome in the first place.

I wish I could slap people that make these fucking threads.

>>2660860

It just shows a deplorable education to do this.

I can't fathom where someone gets off comparing the two, they have to be monumentally retarded.

>>2659859
I would hope so. Though I would also hope that we start actual conquests again unlike OTL roman empire.

>>2660897

>republic founded on overthrowing a monarchy
>superpower with relatively plutocratic republican institutions
>militaristic ethos
>similar symbolism
>some parallel foundation myths like Washington/Cincinnatus

It's really not hard to see why people draw parallels, they have a wealth of superficial similarities. It doesn't mean they magically think the two states are identical.

>>2660945

>republic founded on overthrowing a monarchy

you don't know anything about US history lel

>militaristic ethos

again, you don't anything about US history, double lel

>similar symbolism

every government on the planet in the west incorproates roman symbolism, it is a sign of authority, and civic institution

for example, the french have a goddamn fasces on their passport

you're dumb, and I hate you

>>2660965
The Washington/cincinnatus comparison was sound though

Sort of

>>2659859
The similarities are only surface level. Look into the Roman government and military and you will see how silly this argument is.

If there is any path for the United states to follow I would say it is the late French kingdom where the state becomes dysfunctional because the strongest members have been able to maniuplulate the system to pay the least. Remember the French revolution started with a financial crisis.

Even that comparison is tenuous

>>2660970
I think the myths created around them are in a way similar.

>>2660965
>you don't know anything about US history lel

you sure told me lel

>again, you don't anything about US history, double lel

sent me completely reeling double lel

>every government on the planet in the west incorproates roman symbolism, it is a sign of authority, and civic institution

and many of them are also subject to comparison

>you're dumb, and I hate you

Well now I'm thoroughly BTFO.

>>2661185

I accept your surrender

>>2660965
>every government on the planet in the west incorproates roman symbolism
wrong

>>2660897
>butthurt euro mad that the US is extremely similar to the Roman republic

keep crying we're Rome now, you had your chance euros now it's our turn.

>>2661367

an american being proud to think of himself as rome is kind of sad for him

sadder still for those americans that know better for him to exist

>>2660965
>says he doesn't know anything about US history but refuses to actually counter the argument

>>2661384

a spade is a spade

>>2659859
People look at how the Roman Republic was actually run and see what destroyed it. I will believe the comparison when we have generals in the United States refusing to listen to civilian governments

>>2661394

ur wrong learn history

>>2661478

I'm learnin' yer mum real good

>same symbolism literally shoved in your face, we have a literal Senate with Senators and it takes place in a building that is designed to look like an ancient roman structure
>consul/president limited term model
>highly organized, professional military controlled directly by the consul/president (military as a career, carry everything on your back, work together, team over individual glory, build forts, aka Marian-style militaries, the conquest of the American Indians is similar to how romans dealt with the gauls really, divide and conquer)
>both hegemonic world powers
>both have heavy multicultural populations
>rule of law, not men
>both have the same strategy of "look for any excuse to go to war and always claim that you fight defensive wars."
>both create smug nationalistic populations that enjoy violence as entertainment and openly yearn for wars and blood every decade or so

So what we have are two superpowers that structure themselves the same, look the same, behave the same, and fill the same role on the national stage.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

>>2661533

are you expecting any other reply than that you're retarded?

your opinions are retarded

>>2661547
t. Doesn't live in the 21st century Roman Republic and doesn't get to cheer on our little Marian mules as they drop the biggest non-nuclear bomb ever on some barbarian shits

>>2661553

I'm actually american and I think you're a dumb faggot

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>>2661567
>being an unpatriotic faggot during a time of war

you have to leave

>>2661569

There's nothing wrong with pounding terrorists to dust, however, your interpretation of our society disgusts me

>>2661533
>same symbolism literally shoved in your face, we have a literal Senate with Senators and it takes place in a building that is designed to look like an ancient roman structure
Symbolism logic is circular since much of it directly based on Roman tradition like the name the Senate
>consul/president limited term model
Two consuls and they switched much more often
>highly organized, professional military controlled directly by the consul/president
American conquest of Indians in nothing like the conquest of Gaul. The power difference was much greater and Romans didn't displace the gauls.
>both hegemonic world powers
Both are hegamons but Rome wasn't a world power. They also exercise power differently.
>both have heavy multicultural populations
Acquired in very different manners and ruled in very different manners.
>rule of law, not men
Government is justified as coming from the people. But, the rule of law is your best one.
>both have the same strategy of "look for any excuse to go to war and always claim that you fight defensive wars.
Similar strategy in justification but very different long term outcomes. United States hasn't conquered people (Except Natives that have been displaced) as much as it has taken light protectorate
>both create smug nationalistic populations that enjoy violence as entertainment and openly yearn for wars and blood every decade or so
Most people in the republic cared little for Rome. Only elites cared which paradoxically is kinda reversed today.

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>>2661584
there's nothing to be ashamed of you fucking faggot our founders were romaboos and it fucking shows. Our foreign policy is roman, our military is roman, our laws are roman, our government structure is, while not exactly the same, extremely similar, and most of all our politics are exactly the same. Mob appeal, bribes, money corrupting the entire system, propaganda, political parties, etc. You're the one being an unreasonable faggot denying this shit with no supporting evidence. Sure the same could be said of a lot of nations before the US, but none of them were true republics, and none of them are around anymore in the same capacity, there's always been "spiritual successors" and we're it at this point in history.

>>2661611
unironically kill yourself

>>2661601
you can point to small differences but I've already conceited that they aren't exactly the same, but that would be impossible because two nations that existed in such radically different settings cannot be exactly the same, great powers are a product of their times. Still, your nitpicking is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, shit like 2 consuls is emulated by the vice president spiritually without actually giving him much power because they learned their lesson from the Romans about a divided executive, and really just like most times there was a dominant consul anyway so in practice they functioned in a very similar way. Really the differences are more a product of their times than they are intentional differences, we're about as roman as you can be in the 21st century considering how the world has changed, we had very similar long term goals but the game changed with nukes so we can't just keep conquering traditionally anymore, that's less a difference of foreign policy and more a difference of means. Treatment of the local population might have been different I'm some ways but it was similar also in many ways, and again the differences are a product of the times. They both slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people at least, they both utilized divide and conquer, they both utilized a Frontier fort system to conquer territory, they both relied on heavy supply lines and infrastructure building as a means of solidifying their holdings(romans with their roads, the US with railroads)

You're being unreasonable.

>>2659859
>chi ro mixed with latin
average american retardation

>>2661675
I get your argument and yes many of the point where but picking. But, the differences in how these countries are not negligible. Both are products of their times, and those time produced wildly different states. At their core the similarity between the two is that that they are both militaristic republics. And i guess if you want to say America is the closest modern country to Rome, I can agree to that. But, that doesn't mean they are actually very close since no place on earth is like Rome.

>>2661716

anyone calling the US a militaristic republic comes off as a simpleton to me

>>2661769
you do realize we've basically been in a constant state of war since our inception, correct? You realize that for every big war, we have 10 small wars in the downtime? You do realize we're a republic, yes? Then calling us a militaristic republic isn't a stretch at all.

>>2661816

well then every country is militaristic by that retard logic

>>2661769
If you are looking at the actions of the government over the past 100 years I don't think it is unfair to call them militaristic. I mean you can't really be a super power without being militaristic. Also, that is not to say the average American is militeristic or loves war. The government is just more often than other powers to use military power both overtly and covertly than most other nations. For example Russia and France are also militeristic.

>>2661827
No, just the successful powerful ones.

>>2661601
>Most people in the republic cared little for Rome.

I guess that's why they rioted so much and fanatically defended Italy against carthage, because "most people cared little"

This is an extremely retarded statement. Romans were very social and politically active citizens, most poor people literally had a patron they'd visit every day and get food in exchange for supporting that guy in whatever matter he needed a mob's help for, which was a lot of shit in ancient rome, politicians were only as strong as the mob supporting them, and this is because the people of rome were very active in politics and made their voices known.