Vietnam

>>2651363
Of course not. We had the South Koreans and Americans on top of that and still lost.

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>>2651449
The American way of fighting was deeply flawed. They weren't fully prepared for counter-guerilla operations.

>Could the shittier version of the American military win
No

>>2651473
Even if that is true, that flaw would be far outweighed by the sheer manpower they brought to the war.

Vietnam was not a war the west could have won. There is no shame in admitting that we were bested because everyone took valuable lessons from the experience.

>>2651476
The NVA and the VC feared the Aussies and the ROKs more than the Americans. NVA manuals advised their soldiers not to engage ROKs unless they had a definite chance of winning. NVA officers feared the Aussie method of combing through the jungle more than the American war of atrittion

>>2651512
And the most feared enemy of all was the USAF.

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>>2651543

>>2651504
The sheer man power is why we were still winning when we left. There was no reason we couldn't keep it up but moral at home.

>>2651695
War is politics by another means. They won the war because they had succeeded in making the political costs of the war more than what was considered acceptable. We lost.

>>2651473
The only way to destroy all resistance is to do what the South Koreans did and just wholesale murder everyone with extreme brutality. If you leave no survivors behind, you leave no one to lead, join, or support guerrillas.

>>2651512
You realize that the NVA avoided everyone aside from ARVN shitters, right? The US marines and army wrecked their shit every time they did a conventional assault.

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>>2651512

>>2651673
Watching that movie right now brah. Pretty good.

>>2651473
>>2651504
I fucking hate this meme so much. Americans didn't get beaten by guerillas, in fact they obliterated the Vietcong so hard they were fully replaced by NVA regular troops by '69 and existed as an organization only on paper. Americans did bumblefuck in Vietnam, but it wasn't by guerillas.

>>2653265
We lost the moment we tried using conscripts honestly. A conservative volunteer army like we have today is far more secure in terms of morale.

>>2653310
It was a mistake to assume that anyone wants to die or their children to get killed over vague reasons such as political ideology. Whoever decided that the draft was an acceptable idea wholly overestimated the American public's appetite for sacrifice.

>>2653310
>>2653325
80% of soldiers were volunteers. The real game changer were the media - WW2 didn't have reporters straight on the battlefield reporting on every night on TV how many soldiers got killed and overblowing every desertion. It created a narrative people believed and rallied against.

>>2653325
The draft only makes sense if the US is directly attacked and even then isn't necessary since a lot of able bodied men would straight up volunteer for service if that happened.
>>2653335
The issue was that the draftees were often the biggest troublemakers since they were forced into a war they wanted no part of.

>>2653303
yes but it's easier to say "le vc beat the amerisharts lol xDDDD" than actually think or learn.

>>2653366
I wonder if the general notion of le epic guerillas was created by Soviet propaganda or popular movies like Platoon.

>>2653343
Thing is, the were troublemakers in WW2 and Korea too, except they were quickly culled instead of getting instant TV exposure and turned into defiant heroes.

>>2653265
>War is politics by another means.

And the U.S. government has been complete shit since WWII, which is why we are now overun by south Americans, treat faggots and niggers like they're special snowflakes, and are more concerned about hurting non-combatants than actually winning the wars we send our soldiers to fight.

>>2651449
Please read up on the Vietnam War before posting, the United states won a cease fire which was victory because the goal of the war was to keep south Vietnam independent, not take over North Vietnam.
>>2651363
Possibly, depends on how much money they have for munitions or if the United states is willing to foot the bill for it.
The reason the south fell was they ran out of supplies and stood alone.
Congress would not allow a redeployment to Vietnam after all the shit at home, and then eventually voted to stop giving them supplies.

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>>2651363
>ROK
>Could the people who fucking failed to reunify their country win in Vietnam?

>>2655644
The goal in Vietnam was not to unify but to keep an independent south.
And if it was just rok and sv against vc and nva it would probably be in rok and sv favor, but once you add in all the Soviet and prc help it becomes more skewed even with US help due to the distance differences.

>>2655642
>the war of Spanish succession was a victory for the British because the Spanish and French crowns never allied nor united

>>2655918
>Spain and France are not United
>Spain and France lose territory
>England, Austria and the Netherlands gain territory
Looks like an English victory to me.

>>2655943
>I'm just going to ignore both the American and French Revolution

>>2655954
>separate conflicts totally are part of this I swear.

>>2653393
I'd say it was started by returning soldiers themselves. It's a lot easier to handle a defeat if you make your enemies out to be incredibly dangerous foes afterwards. Plus from their perspective the guerillas really would have seemed frightening

>>2655954
What crazy time-line are you from where the war of Spanish succession happened near the American or French Revolutions?

>>2655943
It was not about uniting both countries but setting up a french prince on the throne of the major anti-french empire of the last two centuries.
Which succeeded

>>2653575
The wars we fight today aren't about crushing military forces but building new institutions and putting friendly leaders in power. Again, politics by another means. But we often fail to understand the cultural and historical context of the regions and peoples we are invading, and we are too often over optimistic about outcomes. Thus we are doomed to fail.

>>2651476
In 9/10 engagements australian troops attacked the vietcong, while US troops where almost always the ones being attacked

>>2655956
>>2655968
>missing the ducking point
The Bourbon success in the war of Spanish succession led to the political climate of the American and French Revolution. Just like how the failure of the Vietnam war allowed the unification of Vietnam under communist rule.
Also
>Austria gains land
>this a success
>the hapsburg empire suffers a major loss by losing one of its constituent empires

>>2656708
And the USA completely destroyed the VC's fighting capacity and almost completely destroyed the NVA.

>>2656931
Then how did Vietnam unite within 2 years

>>2656936
South Vietnamese didn't put up a fight once the USA pulled out.

>>2656943
Real strong Vietnam you left eh

>>2657140
Vietnamese couldn't take a right wing christian dictatorship like the Koreans

>>2653303
>they were fully replaced by NVA regular troops by '69 and existed as an organization only on paper.

where do I read about this? I love communist lies getting BTFO by reality

>>2657162
Park wasn't a Christian but he was ultra right wing
God rest his soul

>>2656943
Yes they did, hell they were winning until the US Congress voted to not resupply them.
Take your bullshit communist propaganda elsewhere.

>>2658470
ARVN was fairly shit and couldn't fight well unless the USA was there. This isn't even commie propaganda this is what troops on the ground and US officers were saying.

>>2656943
>>2658470
They got BTFO in Lam Song 719 and needed a massive US bombing campaign to keep the Easter Offensive from taking their capital.

Vietnamization was a failure, and Nixon didn't think they deserved a second chance.

We Vietnamese don't even care of this war tbhfam. If there's a foreign country that we always think of, it's China.

>>2659244
I went to Vietnam once and everyone preferred the US over China.

>>2659267
Just like the last 1000 years, no surprise, we prefer any country over China.

>>2659244
From what I understand, after the North's military streamrolled the South, the South's culture steamrolled the North.

>>2659267
>It's all "YANKEES GO HOME" until they're facing someone more powerful than they are and suddenly the US is a good guy.
Fucking cucks.

>>2659306
The thing is that, we always hate China, it's not recent thing, but have been like that for hundreds of years. We just needed China and the USSR to help us to kick 'Murricans out, after that we went back to be enemies like always.

>>2657840
Literally any actual academic book on the Vietnam War. Even Marxist historiographies don't shy away from the fact that the VC was dead in the water after Tet.

>>2659267

no shit they fucking despise China, have done for like a thousand fucking years

>>2659682

any recommendations on a proper academic text to get woke on Vietnam?

>>2653281
To capture the photo at that moment, even as an aussie, Im impressed

>>2653281
All uninjured. What's your point?