Who was the worst Roman emperor?

>>2644828
Constantine.

>>2644828
What was so "Great" about Theodosius?

>>2644847
he made paganism illegal

>>2644828
Theodosius
>>2644836
also this

>>2644847
He literally fucked Rome in half.

galba

>>2644828
Augustus. Rome should have stayed a Republic.

>>2644828
In terms of lasting damage to the empire?
Constantine.
In terms of just being a fuck-up?
Either Commodus or Caligula.

>>2644849
You mean that Ambrose made paganism illegal.
Theodosius was just a useless puppet that should not even be counted as emperor.
Ambrose was the guy who was really in control and is responsible for the damage to the empire that happened under Theodosius.

[spoiler]Reminder that the wrong side won the battle of of the Frigidus[/spoiler]

>>2644873
Fuck paganism. Go back to /pol/.

>>2644873
nero was far worse than commodus or caligula

I like that constantines conversion is literally just "it came to me in a dream"

>>2644828
Justinian

>>2644828
Alexis komensos

>>2644930

Definitely.

>>2644828
Charles Vii or V

>>2644884

Go there yourself. /pol/ is swarming with Christcucks.

>>2644836
Splitting the empire was necessary.

>>2644936
Yeah man, just how could a floating head be a good emperor, not to mention the famine and abandonment of Jerusalem

>>2644942
>christcucks
>no guys the real redpill is worshipping the god who got pregnant so he could pay a fair wage
>don't grovel I thought we were national SOCIALISTS so the worker must be paid

>people saying Constantine
Why? Many historians view the division of the empire into east and west as a necessity. If anything it prolonged the empire.

>>2644953
What is this autism/schizophrenia nonsense?

>>2644947

I dont really understand the paranormal stuff in procopious. is it some ancient memes just long out of context?

>>2644884
>Implying I browse /pol/
>Implying I'm a pagan
I'm simply able to recognize how damaging Christianity was to the Roman Empire.
The fall of Rome can be traced directly back to the Constantine and as such he is the worst emperor.

I thought all of you damn galilaeans would be too busy to shit up Roman history threads this time of year.

>>2644909
I admit that I tend to consider Commodus the biggest fuck up, mostly due to who his father was.
To go from Philosopher-King to spoiled, mentally ill brat is quite a step down.

I do disagree about Nero being worse then Caligula however.

>>2644956
Diocletian prolonged the empire.
Constantine put it into a terminal decline.
Remember that it would only take 73 years to go from Constantine and Christianity to the sack of Rome.

>>2644992
>co-opting galiliean and seriously implicating you're not le new age faggot

fuck off, I'd willingly take the christfags over a moron.

>>2644992

>I do disagree about Nero being worse then Caligula however.

Well, that's somewhat paradoxical, right? Nero was worse because he was better, and thus could keep his own brand of bullshit afloat longer than it took Caligula's party train to self-destruct.

>>2644963
Probably just ideas lost, like raining cats and dogs

>>2644963
Off his face drunk?
>>2644992
>calling us Galileans
Nu-rich much?

caligula

>>2644828
Elagabalus.
He didn't even fucking try.

>>2644828
Unironically, Honorius, Valentinian III or Elagabalus spring to mind.

Honorius is almost single handedly responsible for the destruction of the Roman west since he lost tens of thousands of soldiers fighting other Romans while barbarians hordes conquered North Africa, parts of Spain and parts of Gaul. His incompetence led to a complete reliance on foederati mercenaries and the inability of the Roman state to ever dislodge the Goths, Vandals etc. from Roman soil.

>>2644863
Galba has alright, Vitellius was probably the worst of the lot.
>sacks his way from the frontier to Italy
>Emperor for all of two months before being BTFO by Vespasian
>only remembered as a bargin-bin Nero with none of his wit or talent

>>2644963
>is it some ancient memes

Basically. Read Artemidorus' Oneirocritica (Dream Interpretation). It'll explain a lot about the Greco-Roman psyche.

Pretty sure Commodus is the historically correct answer, considering he single handedly ended the golden age of Rome.

>>2645469

Rome bounced back from Commodus. It bounced back from Nero. Bounced back from Caracalla. Not so from Constantine.

>>2645487
>Not so from Constantine.

Diocletian's reforms meant that it was still relatively strong for another century. Constantine didn't really fuck them up and Christianity didn't have much of an impact on the fall of the WRE.

Get out of here Gibbon.

>>2644873
caligula did nothnig wrong

>>2645487
The era of adopted emporers, from the ascension of Nerva until the death of Aurelius, is widely regarded as one of humankind's golden ages. Rome did recover after Commodus, but it never reached this peak of happiness and prosperity again.

>>2644828
Commodus. There is literally no contest.

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>>2644946
>smaller tax base
>even more infighting
>necessary

>>2644828
Can any of you even explain what Constantine did wrong? When you have a large population, you create administrative sub-divisions. In Rome's case, he created a vassal state. Literally nothing wrong with that, it's just a way to make things easier. Plus, it provided a fail-safe. If one Rome failed (which happened) then the other Rome could take it's place. Constantine did nothing wrong.

>>2645597
Constantine didn't do any of that crap. People have often mistaken Diocletian's reforms for Constantine's actions because Christian sources wanted to portray him as "the Great" responsible for overhauling everything. The only real thing of note Constantine did aside from Christianity was move the core of the emperor to Constantinople and allow it to survive another millenium longer than it would have by doing so.

>Muh Christianity killed Rome

If anything it prolonged it. You people are fucking idiots.

>>2645494
>>2645695
>creates massive divisions among Rome's Christian and Pagan populations, destroying law and order
>Emperors become more concerned about making sure their version of an abstract ideal are the most relevant than defending the Empire

>>2645711

>>creates massive divisions among Rome's Christian and Pagan populations, destroying law and order

I'll take things that never happened for 500 Alex

>>2645714
Christians were given free-reign to destroy Pagan property with the government's expressed permission. It's safe to say that was a massive blow to public order.

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>>2645695
Rome had literally lasted for over a thousand years under its Hellenic cults.

Christianity would so quickly reduce Rome.
That in just over 70 years Rome itself would be sacked.
Christianity was a poison to the empire.

>>2645714
>Implying this never happened
Christians literally destroyed the last remnants of the library of Alexandria because it was associated with 'muh paganism'.
Christ-cucks are the worst.

>>2645727
>>2645719

>Constant civil wars and riots under "pagan" rule
>MUH CHRISTKEKS RUINED EVERYTHING

You're both intellectually dishonest fedora tippers.

>>2644870
How would that have benefitted the people?

>>2645727
>Rome had literally no problems and was a perfect state until Christianity was introduced overnight

>>2645734
>Constant civil wars
There were three civil wars over Imperial succession before Constantine
Constantine came to power in a Civil War, and after his death there were another four major wars over Imperial succession.

It's pretty obvious that Christian Rome was less unified than "Pagan" Rome.

>>2645748

>There were three civil wars before Constantine

Patently false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_civil_wars

>Constantine the pagan came to power during a civil war with other pagans
>Blaming the natural Roman tendency for disunity on Christianity as if it had not been a staple for their entire existence

Again, you are intellectually dishonest.

>>2645760
I read the same article and made it clear I was talking about Imperial Rome. The Republic had more Civil Wars because it was a less unified political structure than the Principate/Dominion.
Constantine was a Christian by the end of his Civil War and more than likely had Christian sentiments long before that, just like Justinian was a closet Pagan until he had his chance to take power.
There is no such thing as a "natural Roman tendency," their adaptation of Christianity simply changed their outlook by making "God's law" more important than the legal structure of the Empire.

>>2645770

Even just counting Imperial Rome there were more than three.

>Constantine was a Christian by the end of his Civil War

No, he wasn't

He still worshipped Sol Invictus.

>>2645776
>it's another "X isn't a real Christian because he doesn't adhere to my special definition of an abstract concept" Episode

Literally any historian would tell you that Constantine was a Christian by 312 and Milvian Bridge at the very latest.

>Calling Byzantines Romans

I love this meme

>>2645791

>Literally any historian would tell you that Constantine was a Christian by 312

No, they wouldn't.

>>2645806
Please, find me one that doesn't.
Opinionated Christian "Historians" don't count.
Before you go "No u"
>Constantine was not a young convert. He was over 40 and an experienced politician when he finally declared himself a Christian. He had had time to take the measure of the new religion and the difficulties which emperors had experienced in suppressing it. He decided that Christianity was a religion fit for a new empire.

>>2645748
>pagan Rome suffers through the Crisis of the 3rd Century
>C-christianity killed Rome!

>>2645183
>majorian was well on his way to reconquering every part of the empire that got lost in only 4 years

Goddamn it I fucking hate ricimer

>>2645806
While there may be some galilaean "historians" that refuse to acknowledge Constantine as christian before his baptism.

The consensus among respectable historians is that he was certainly a christian by 312.

>>2645830
No it isn't you queef, Constantine was lukewarm at best.

Holy shit dude it seems like you read Gibbon once. Nothing you have said has had any value whatsoever. It has been dishonest at best and just outright lies at worst.

>>2645855
Not me, but you have no proof to back this up.
Just because something hurts your feelings doesn't mean it's wrong. Christianity played a part in the downfall of the Roman Empire, that's a fact that can be attested to by historical evidence.

>>2645868
Fuckin kek

My evidence is in the bullshit you've been posting. Your claims are retarded and they would rightfully be ignored or simply laughed out of the room in an academic setting

>>2645898
You've made it pretty obvious that you're a delusional Christcuck with no evidence to back up your claims. Stop posting anytime.

>>2645907
>read Gibbon once
>start posting Gibbon
>get laughed at by smarter anons
>hurrrr christcucks are delusional

Kek

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>>2645919
>Hah hah hah you read fucking GIBBON LMAO
This is your "argument," I haven't used Gibbon as evidence once.
You're pathetic.

>>2645898
A church is not an "academic setting", galilaean.
Just because it upsets you does not change the historical fact that your faith helped kill the Roman Empire.

>>2645919
Most people seem to be laughing at you and your horrid attempt at historical revisionism.

>>2645585
You memester, they INCREASED the taxes during Diocletian and onwards. The rise of the fuckhuge beauracracy and splitting of the provinces was designed to prevent the Crisis of the 3rd Century, but it just led to a overburdening of the Roman financial system and was even more corrupted than the previous system.

>>2645166
Also he was probably a tranny, so that's not surprising he sucked so much.

>>2645727
Rome lasted 1200 years after Christianity, though. To be honest, I think if the WRE managed to hold out against the Huns for a while longer, until a non-shit emperor took over, it could've survived.

>>2645802
t. Reddit

>>2645925
>I haven't used gibbon
>your views are literally gibbon

>>2645930
I am not a Christian.
You're just upset because regurgitating the same tired views of an edgelord from the 1780's doesn't get you taken seriously.

>>2645958
Except the idea that Byzantium = Rome is the most r/eu4 thing there is.

>>2645585
Smaller tax base but far smaller costs to defend, etc.

Originally, the Byzantine half was supposed to be the deadweight because of the Persians.

>>2645963
I don't get this meme.

It's literally the eastern half of the same empire, with the most recent capital of both empires. What makes it not Roman? Not holding Rome?
Why does that matter, it wasn't even the capital of the WRE for centuries.

Not using Latin for government functions after Heraclius' reforms? Italic intellectuals often knew Greek for most of the republic and empire.

I just don't understand this desu, I can't even comprehend the mindset.

>>2645963
No modern historian worth a damn denies the Byzantine empire was the succesor of Rome. You're just being a contrarian Reddit edgelord because you got kicked out of r/history for being too dumb.

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>>2645993
>anything I don't agree with is reddit!

There needs to be a total and complete ban on religionposting in /his/. It's ruined any worthwhile discussion. This thread is just full of people posting great Emperors and saying they're bad because they were Christian.

There were some legitimately hilarious failures like Honorius and Valentinian III and Phocas but there's almost no discussion of them ITT

>>2645993
Getting kicked out of r/history is a challenge considering its exactly like this board... filled with Romaboos and WW2 faggots who are pretty misinformed and ignorant about history

>>2645987
>What makes it not Roman? Not holding Rome?

Completely different culture

>>2646269
People living in Rome in the 5th century BC had a totally alien culture to those living in Rome in the 5th century AD but you wouldn't try and claim that either of them weren't Roman.

And every part of the empire would've had a completely different culture during every time period, so you'd have to claim that only people from Rome had the true Roman culture and even then only during a completely arbitrary time period.

It just makes no sense. From a legalistic and historical perspective it was the same entity.

>>2644992
>Remember that it would only take 73 years to go from Constantine and Christianity to the sack of Rome
Just because Honorius and Arcadius were terminal retards doesn't condemn anyone but them

not an emperor but empress zoe. she literally destoyed the empire.

>>2646004
Agreed. Wanna talk about what a complete faggot Phocas was?

Julius Caesar for not successfully instituting imperium.

Real answer: Caligula or Elagabalus

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>>2645958
>>2645987
>>2645993
Fuck off Byzaboos. ERE stopped being Roman the moment the Justinian dynasty was overthrown. You make me so angry with your stupid butthurt over Venice. I'm glad your shitty city got sacked in the Fourth Crusade.

>>2644992
>Diocletian prolonged the empire.
>Constantine put it into a terminal decline.
>Remember that it would only take 73 years to go from Constantine and Christianity to the sack of Rome.

Rome at the peak of its power couldn't stop the Huns and the Great Migrators

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>>2646320
>be Phocas
>drag the Danubian armies away from the frontiers to claim the purple leaving hundreds of Greek speaking undefended cities in their wake
>cause the Balkans to be a depopulated, rural Slavic shithole for the next millenium
>fuck up so badly on the eastern front that the Persians conquer the furthest they have ever done in the past thousand years
>get the Empire mixed up in a brutal quarter-century long war that goes needlessly far beyond what any of the prior border skirmishes were
>weaken the empire so much that it cannot survive against the invasion of a bunch of bumfuck durkas from the Hejaz
>forever doom the middle east to be, instead of a thriving polyglot melting pot of peoples and faiths, a land of stagnancy and mono-culture.

Thanks Phocas.

>>2644992
The sack of Rome in 410 was caused by the retardation of Honorius and his terrible advisors that decided to kill the sole man who new what he was doing, Stillcho.

>>2646395
Not to mention
>Murder the best emperor seen since Justinian
Maurice deserved better, only to have everything he did reversed by Phocas.

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>>2646339
>Rome at the peak of its power couldn't stop the Huns and the Great Migrators

Rome wasn't destroyed by either of those. It destroyed itself.

>>2646409
The constant invasions of the Great Migrators destroyed the illusion of Roman indestructibility, which severely hurt the Empire's ability to project power outwards. Weak Emperors like Honorius and Valentinian III continued the decline, as the Dominate required a powerful person as the Emperor

>>2646415
>The constant invasions of the Great Migrators destroyed the illusion of Roman indestructibility

It wasn't the actual invasions that hurt the Roman aura of invincibility, it was the Romans being too busy hiring the barbarians to fight usurpers instead of actively trying to assimilate them and their constant infighting in the 400s-430s that fucked them. The decline only truly set in with Honorius after Stilicho's murder.

>>2644847
Kept the East together after Adrianople, managed to unite the Empire for the last time
Putting his sons on the thrones was a huge mistake though

>>2646600
Not to mention kissing the feet of a bishop, setting the worst precedent possible for the medieval period.

>>2646607
RCC did nothing wrong

>>2644828
Guys, guys Elegabalus. Nuff said

>>2647743
Elagabalus had his grandmother run the country while he sucked dick
Honorius killed off his advisors

Diocletian was retarded.