/zrg/ -Zoroastrian General

>>2642533
Fire Jew spotted.

>>2642533

Zoroastrianism influenced many later religions, from Manicheaism to Judaism and Christianity. It is to Zoroaster that the Christians can find the source of their Satan as an active, malevolent rival to God.

>>2642543
Nah.

>>2642551
That Anon's right. Zoroastrian literally invented the dualistic dichotomous religious archetype.

Centuries before Dante’s Divine Comedy, the Book of Arda Viraf described in vivid detail a journey to Heaven and Hell.

Could Dante have possibly heard about the cosmic Zoroastrian traveller’s report, which assumed its final form around the 10th Century AD? The similarity of the two works is uncanny

>>2642533

Hinduism and Zoroastrianism have a close relationship, but an oddly inverted one. The Hindus worship the Daeva and shun the Asura, while the Zoroastrians worship the Asura as their chief (only) god Ahura Mazda (Mazda means wise so he is the "wise spirit"), and consider the dīv/deev to be a race of "wrong gods" and evil spirits.

>>2642543
>>2642552
>Christianity
>dualistic
>Borrowed from Zoroastrianism

Nope to all that. Learn to competitive religion.

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The late Farrokh Bulsara – aka Freddie Mercury – was intensely proud of his Persian Zoroastrian heritage.

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>>2642533
A interesting topic to get things spinning -

>Derinkuyu. Found in "Cappadocia" within modern day turkey.

It is essentially a gigantic complex of underground rooms and tunnels. There is much debate over who exactly "Made" these tunnels because of the ancient nature of the complex- but many historians argue that they were constructed some where around 26000-4000years ago or earlier by indo-european peoples.

Its size is suitable to house roughly 20,000 men women and children as well as store grain, livestock and resources in times of war. From what we know so far there has never been any catastrophic cave-in in any region of the complex even with the spider webbing of air tunnels found connecting many rooms.

An interesting point about this is that within ancient zoroastrian teachings there exists a story which orders a profit to build an underground refuge for humanity (think noah) ordered by "Ahura Mazda" the principal skygod of Zoroastrianism, Ive looked for some neat video to attach but the only thing I could find was some dumb "ancient aliens " docu claiming that the zoroastrians were actually contacted by Ayy lmaos and ordered to build the underground city.

Regardless I think it is interesting and might be worth looking into during this thread. Anyone think that there might be some pre-history connection between the original founders of Zoroastrianism and Derinkuyu?

>>2642573

I think you mean "yes" to all that, as comparative religious scholars have long affirmed.

>>2642533
Generals are usually frowned upon, that's why there is /vg/.

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>>2642593
better picture/ representation

>>2642533
Nice vids.

1) What do you think of the idea that Vajrayana Buddhism lifted the concept of Sky Burials from Zoroastrianism?

2) I spoke with a serious convert once that related some really interesting oral information on Zahak/Azi Dhaka. Is this the sort of thing that circulates regularly outside of the Holy Texts? I'm curious as to how much of an oral tradition is left between the lines of the Yasna and Vendidad.

3) I've got an ancient Zoroastrian polemic against the Christian, Muslims, and Jews (most Jews), if you would like some lels and/or theological defenses of the faith over in the /omg/ library update thread.

>>2642555
Isn't that somewhat late?

>>2642597
There a reason Christianity is still here despite persecution while Zoroastrian is not.
Hades and Heaven are not present in Zoroastrianism.

>>2642614

In Zoroastrianism, the Earth IS Hell. Granted this is a less coercive doctrine than the threat of eternal pain, and it's notably that Mohemmed (piis be upon him) took great pains to really stress the whole hellfire doctrines, which are much more developed in Islam than in Christianity (which really just coopted the Greek system with little Biblical detail to go by).

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>>2642593
>93
Ok, so here's something interesting as far as underground engineering is concerned, that pops up essentially all over what would have been old Zoroastrian territory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat

A friend of mine has been going around Afghanistan in Google Maps and trying to mark questionable archaeological structures that haven't been covered in the common literature for a bajillion reasons. Seem connected to these. There are fucking networks of the things all through completely deserted territory in the 'Stans.

If these cats were building networks of underground water and ice then I don't doubt they could have started in on Cappodocia if the correct karst conditions were met.

>>2642623
God have mercy and soften your misguided heart

>>2642630

Sorry, but the Koran is very explicit. Allah himself has hardened the hearts of the unbelivers, so he can have the pleasure of burning them forever in Janna.

>Zoroastrian thread
Great!
>general
You looking to get banned OP?

>>2642552
Nope.

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stop worshipping fire

>>2642634
You keep confusing God and allah.

God made allah, allah fell from heaven and became Shaitan.

The more you know!

>>2642663
This. Mohammadans are agents of Satan and followers of the false prophet.

>>2642663
>>2642670

Sorry honeypie but that's wrong. You see, God IS Allah, "Allah" is just arabic for "God".
>The moar you know!

>>2642674
The term Allah is pre-Islamic and comes from the Arabic moon god. The heathens don't even realize how satanic their false religion is.

>>2642688
That's Hubal. Allah literally means god in a neutral context. Have you realized it sounds similar to El and Elohim?

>>2642688

Hahaha no sweetie that's just something Jack Chick made up to sell comics. Allah is the God of Abraham and Jesus.

>>2642627
Thats really interesting I haven't seen irrigation technology like that before, I wonder how they got all that done without modern tools. Seems like the Egyptaboo wonder about pyramids isnt the only strange habbinings in the desert.

>>2642688
>The term Allah is pre-Islamic

And don't you know that words take on different meanings over the ages!

>He was merry and GAY

tee hee hee

Further the similarity of words across various lexicons such as 'Salaam' (shalom etc.) meaning peace factors into it.

Allah has for a long time now meant God.

The moar you know :^P

>honeypie
>sweetie
>this fag

>>2642598
>>2642640
It was recommended to make one in the /his/ culture thread. I wasnt aware that the sticky made some hard fast law against generals especially ones which have interest from the community.

Either way I doubt the mods will be super angry with me just for making a thread which specifically speaks about both history and humanities.

>>2642723

It's only polite to be kind to children and the retarded.

Test

>>2642733
>>2642598
>>2642640

Generals are only bad when they become habitual, that's when they breed tripfags and similar cancer. A single thread with no followup about a niche topic is no problem, but calling it a "general" was a rookie mistake that has triggered a lot of PTSD / autism.

>>2642605
>What do you think of the idea that Vajrayana Buddhism lifted the concept of Sky Burials from Zoroastrianism?

Probably introduced into pre-Buddhist Tibet via Sassanid and Sogdian Zoroastrian-influenced practices. It's not a practice found in Indian Vajrayana.

>>2642756
>>2642605

Sky burial is also found among Siberian and Native American groups, possibly its more ancient than either religion.

>>2642714
Here, I just pulled up some maps shit:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9151347,67.6011658,622m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw

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Another intersting topic that I found is the "Athletic" practices of Iran that are Pre-islamic in nature yet have persisted all the way to modern day. Even keeping some of the traditions and music stemming from Zoroastrian culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Omf8jm3Bw

There equivalent of a "gym" a "Zoorkhaneh" roughly translates to "The home or house of power or strength". The wooden boards that almost look like miniature benches are essentially pushup platforms which elevate your chest and add a element of balance to your normal workout. Ive gotten to try them before and they are killer on your shoulders compared to a normal plank position pushup because of the natural wobbles you get when losing your balance.

>>2642756
>It's not a practice found in Indian Vajrayana.
Well, this actually begs a shitload of questions w/r/t how old it ACTUALLY is and what the place of the early Greco-Buddhist forms of 'Mahayana' were, as I can see some proto-Vajra elements through the iconography, but that's sorta beside the point, I agree.

>>2642763
This is also a thing, but the academic materials appear to agree that similarities are stronger between the Zoroastrian praxes of death and the Tibetan/Nepalese Vajrayana/Newar than with further removed groups, and I could quibble till the cows came home about further pedantic shit.

>>2642764
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9189236,67.6055089,348m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7726374,67.674543,411m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1677672,65.7526399,703m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2955986,66.7427306,39973m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3595935,67.2493805,350m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw

>>2642756
>>2642763
The Zoroastrian take is pretty interesting - they say that the reason they do not bury their dead or cremate them is for two reasons.
1stly that a dead body is corrupted with "evil" and that evil might spread to those who spend too much time with the corpse (to me this sounds like a really early realization of germs and disease which might have created an aversion to handling the body and preforming an actual burial)
Secondly they cannot cremate the body because the aforementioned "evil" could corrupt the fire which is a symbol of enlightenment and purity within their culture. So it seems to be that the primary reason Zoroastrians do open sky burial is not because of some doctrinal law like in tibetan buddhism. But rather because it is the last option given that cremation or any type of elaborate processing of the body were available.

>>2642798
There is no law in Tibetan Buddhism requiring sky burial, it's just been more practical than digging a grave or the usual Buddhist cremation. There are conceptual links between sky burial and chöd but it's not a compulsory practice.

>>2642798

Death is a tool of Ahriman, and represents his (temporary) victory over Ahura Mazda, this is central to the theology so I think the health benefits are incidental and the practise is essentially purely religious. Likewise burial (pollutes the Earth) and burning (pollutes fire) are no-goes, really it was sky burial or cannibalism.

>>2642786
This one tweaks me out beyond the archaeology:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6827215,66.8105697,349m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!6m1!1szlFbLajmFK60.kmXtUfFkjhCw
>middle of buttfuck nowhere
>bright
>sharp angles, new?
>no roof
>larger than other buildings nearby, but walls too narrow for it to be a complex with four small rooms
>smack in the fucking middle of water system and foundation ruin territory

I mean, as a working archaeologist it takes quite a bit to make me go 'wat' and this DEFINITELY made me 'wat.

>>2642824
My mistake then, its been quite a while since I read the Tibetan book of the dead. I could of sworn there was something about skyburial in the first or second bardo.
>>2642829
Well thank god they chose sky burial. Lol the alternative seems much worse. Ye olde "Im having grandma for dinner" joke.

>>2642674
Yes, that's the modern lie to make Mohammadism more palatable to the western mind.

It's a lie, of course, as is all of Mohammadism.

>>2642707
allah is Hubal. Hubal is Ba'al. The Arabs have worshiped Ba'al for thousands of years.

Do you really think Arabs worship the God of the Jews?

>>2642710
allah is the greatest of the deceivers
satan is the greatest of the deceivers

allah = satan

>>2642846
You're.....gainfully employed?

>>2642869
Very. I work 30 hrs a week at a museum as an archival curator and HR assistant.

>>2642850
That's the Chod influence the other kind anon was referring to.

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>>2642846
what is the structure to the North west? It looks like a smaller version of the one you linked too but the Black/green blurry mass is confusing, is it a small pond or shittons of foliage?

>>2642852

Oh sugarpoops, Mohemmedism is just another barely distinguishable sect of Judaism, just like Christianity. It's wrong and wicked, of course, but no more so than the others.

>>2642543
There are far more and greater differences between Zoroastrianism and the Abrahamic religions than there are similarities.

Ahura Mazda is not omnipotent or omnipresent, but he is omniscient. AM is not all-powerful.
Angra Mainyu is not a creation of Ahura Mazda. There exists a realm of existence not subsistent on God. This is anathema in the Abrahamic religions.
The Yazatas are no where near analogous to angels.

Besides, heavens, angels, Satan-figures, and places of punishment and pretty universal in pretty much all religious systems.

This everything comes from Zoroastrianism meme is just that - a meme shilled by Zoroastrian scholars in the past few decades. It holds about as much weight as Horus = Christ. No Biblical scholar actually takes it seriously.

>>2642875
My respect for you went up two digits. I falsely assumed you were unemployable due to my imagination of the representations upon yourself stemming from your spiritual beliefs. My apologies.

>>2642887
>is it a small pond or shittons of foliage?
Both?
My guess is it's (the building) modern but who fucking knows.

>>2642888
It's wrong in the very same way that Pharisaical Judaism is wrong.

If you have not the Son, you have not the Father.

>sugarpoops

>>2642893
>There are far more and greater differences between Zoroastrianism and the Abrahamic religions than there are similarities.

Absolutely, but the influences are nonetheless many and profound.

Omnipotence is an incoherent concept, and technically the Bible doesn't claim omnipotence, merely that god is almighty.

Satan being God's creation actually hurts christianity, since it makes no sense (problem of evil). The Zoroastrian approach is the one Christians have effectively taken anyway, how many christians think of Satan as the enemy of god, exactly as Zoroastrians see Ahriman.

>>2642897

Hahaha oh gosh dearie, God doesn't have a son, there is NONE that is his equal. You'll be telling me he has a wife next!

Inb4 that nigger that claims that Cyrus the Great invented Zoroastrinaism after reading a scroll of Isaiah (probably in English and the King James Version).

>>2642895
I also pull 12 hours of grad classes per week.

>>2642896
>>2642887
Anywho in case you missed it due to linking things I've only recently found, here's some of the old Afghan ruins out in the delta, which have barely been touched because of Memslam and three decades of abject war.

I centered the page on one of the most 'wtf' structures in the area. It's the purple marker. It's about a thousand feet wide and octagonal. I haven't the foggiest what it was.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&authuser=0&mid=16u_m951Xo7VKuJGyD4vbRs3DGvU&ll=36.93543022007244%2C67.17527328236383&z=11

Zoom and scroll around. The site's not undocumneted but there are a bajillion man hours of work to be done just to start asking the basic questions.

>>2642908
The Church is His Bride.

Matthew 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Matthew 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”

>>2642914
Three digits.

Now find me some giants in Antarctica.

>>2642909
That's not the claim. The claim is that Zoroaster, a Persian, came into contact with the Jewish scriptures as the Jews were captives in Babylon, and then under Cyrus' Medeo-Persian empire.

The Jews were captives in Babylon from about 608 to 538 BC.

From Encyclopedia Britannica:

Zarathustra, also spelled Zarathushtra, Greek Zoroaster (born traditionally c. 628 bce, possibly Rhages, Iran—died c. 551 bce), Iranian religious reformer and prophet, traditionally regarded as the founder of Zoroastrianism.

So the question who influenced whom has an answer to Judaism influencing Zoroaster; the answer the other way is nil. The Jews left Babylon with the same tanakh they came with that had been started @ 1468 BC.

>>2642934
According to Zoroastrian tradition, he flourished “258 years before Alexander” (the Great) conquered Persepolis—the capital of the Persian Achaemenian dynasty—in 330 bce. Tradition also records that he was 40 years old when he converted Vishtāspa, most likely a king of Chorasmia (an area south of the Aral Sea in Central Asia), in 588 bce, thus indicating that his birth date was 628 bce.

>>2642902
God's omnipotence is fundamental to Judaism and Christianity. The Bible is not the only source of theology for Jews or Christians. Don't buy into the Protestant meme.

>problem of evil
Free will. This is off topic, but the classical Christian understanding to the problem of evil is that there is no such thing as evil. There is no Ahriman whose very nature is to sow malice. Simply, evil is the rejection of good, just as darkness is the abscene of light.

Satan is not the enemy of God. Satan is the enemy of mankind.

>>2642942
It's the only inspired source. Mixing the holy with the profane does not sanctify the profane.

>>2642914
https://youtu.be/CoCbr0nw6zU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOLArfBwJ8A

https://youtu.be/_RuTEEt-Tdc

>>2642942
And that's not to mention that for a while Zurvanism was a dominant form of Zoroastrianism, which states that Zurvan (Time) had twins, Ohrmazd and Ahriman. This is completely beyond the pale.

On the surface the connections look convincing. The deeper you look the more apparent the differences are and how much of the similarities are circumstantial anyway.

>>2642962
Superficial similarities with profound differences.

That's almost always what you find whenever you compare Judaism/Christianity with any other religion.

>>2642961
>https://youtu.be/_RuTEEt-Tdc
>Petra
NOT what I wanted to post, hold on, goddamn it.

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>>2642533
>The roots of Zoroastrianism are thought to have emerged from a common prehistoric Indo-Iranian religious system dating back to the early 2nd millennium BCE.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHEW LAD GET THAT FIRE WORSHIP ON

>>2642972
Exactly.

And besides, Christian thought has what's called the 'spermatikos logos'. Basically means the seed of the word. This was formulated by St Justin Martyr and states that truth is truth no matter where it is found. So if Zoroastrianism also hasn't similar ideas regarding cosmology, eschatology, and soteriology, it's because it's the universal truth of God shining through all times and peoples, even if only in part/distorted.

That's why any thinking Christian isn't bothered by these supposed influences. Dunno how Jews feel.

>/zoroastrianismgeneral/

More like /incestgeneral/.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/marriage-next-of-kin

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/marriage-next-of-kin

This is why no one takes Zoroastrianis seriously. Shit like this and washing your face with cow piss (srs) make it a laughing stock.

>>2642942
>God's omnipotence is fundamental to Judaism and Christianity.

It's incoherent and extra-biblical, I would have thought anyone who wanted to LARP as a theist would drop that howler pretty quickly.

>Free will.

Not an answer. Why did God reveal himself to us thru Jesus? What happened to "free will"?

>>2642972

Crashingly wrong, just absolutely a batshit demented claim to make. There is nothing (0) in any sect of Judaism that isn't found in one of it's contemporaries.

>>2643061
>It's incoherent

Not at all. Omnipotence makes perfect sense if you spend more than 15 minutes thinking about it, you easily distracted protestant.

>>2643077

Can God make a rock heavier than he can lift?

>>2643070
YHWH

>>2643108
The Canaanite storm god YHWH?

>>2643061
Jesus is God.

Jesus is revealed as God in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus also appears throughout the OT.

Jesus made the universe.

Stop listening to Arius.

>>2643120
No, they fought against YHWH, which you would know if you had bothered to read the Meshe Stele.

But of course you love your ignorance, and you love promoting the most evil people on planet earth.

>>2643120
It is the most extensive inscription ever recovered that refers to the kingdom of Israel (the "House of Omri"); it bears the earliest certain extra-biblical reference to the Israelite god Yahweh, and—if French scholar André Lemaire's reconstruction of a portion of line 31 is correct—the earliest mention of the "House of David" (i.e., the kingdom of Judah).

>>2643108

You mean not speaking or writing your god's name? A very widespread custom among other religions of the area. In fact, we don't have the real names of some well-known deities, but only their epithets (for example "Persephone" just means "lady of the garden", the deities actual name was too holy to record and of course the priesthood who knew it are all dead)

>>2643121

Take your meds.

>>2643078

Yes and then he can proceed to lift the rock that is too heavy to lift while still having made a rock too heavy to lift. And then construct a square circle and teleologically suspend the ethical or what have you, doesn't actually matter.

You know, God doesn't have to make sense to you if he doesn't want to. He resolves impossibility itself.

That's what omnipotence implies, God does not have*strictly any* limits unless he decides otherwise. He can have any and all limits and remain unbound simultaneously. Any and all states or none, whatever. He can bend the fabric of space and time into a fucking lotus if he wants to idgaf, do you not understand the dimensions of this implication or are you a slave of dogma?.

>>2643120
And Chemosh said to me, Go take Nebo against Israel, and I went in the night and I fought against it from the break of day till noon, and I took it: and I killed in all seven thousand men, but I did not kill the women and maidens, for I devoted them to Ashtar-Chemosh; and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh.

See?

Evil people - Ba'al Chemosh

Jewish people - Jehovah

>>2643138
No, the one true God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Nobody else had YHWH.

>>2643142

A being that can defy logic is by its nature an incoherent concept.

>HURR U CANT KNO THE UNKNOWABLE MIND OF GOD!
>DURR DO WHAT THIS BOOK SAYS THE WILL OF GOD IS!

>>2643147

Apart from the other Canaanite tribes, you mean, who continued to worship Yahweh alongside the other gods of their pantheons?

>>2643153
Yes, luckily for us God can dumb himself down to our level and communicate with us. And has. And will.

Why do you think human logic is more powerful than the creator of this universe?

Can human logic create a duplicate universe? Or just shit this one up?

>>2643155
So, the actual Meshe Stele cannot convince you that the people of Canaan fought against the people of Jehovah.

You're exactly the reprobate I knew you for.

You say that the Jews worshiped the gods of the wicked and evil and disgusting Canaanites, but fail to mention that every time they did, they were foreign gods, and YHWH punished them for worshiping foreign gods.

Demon gods, like the ones you worship.

>>2643162
Because it is influenced by, and founded upon, Jewish principles. Plus a little fire god.

Zoroastrianism is for fire Jews.

>>2643159
>dumb himself down to our level

HAHAHAHA

The Bible is FULL of idiotic, obviously wrong, dumb, wicked and absurd passages. Dumb himself to OUR level? I think he may have overshot and dumbed himself all the way to potato!

Also, if God (the almighty creator of the universe) wanted to have a personal relationship with us, then he would a better way than a nonsense book of rubbish, indistinguishable from all the totally man-made mythologies mere humans have created since time immemorial.

>>2643165
>So, the actual Meshe Stele cannot convince you that the people of Canaan fought against the people of Jehovah.

Everyone knows that much you dunce, the claim you made is that the other Canaanites didn't also worship Yahweh, which is wrong because they did.

>>2643155
The text describes:
How Moab was oppressed by Omri King of Israel and his son as the result of the anger of the god Chemosh

Mesha's victories over Omri's son (not named) and the men of Gad at Ataroth, Nebo and Jehaz;

His building projects, restoring the fortifications of his strong places and building a palace and reservoirs for water;

His wars against the Horonaim; and
A now-lost conclusion in the destroyed final lines.

Choke on some more facts.

>>2643170

t.brainlet

>>2643165
>Demon gods, like the ones you worship.

Nigger this ain't kindergarten, I'm too old to believe in faeries.

>>2643170
Yes, he has a much better way, and a way apparently unknown to you.

And yes, the bible as the book of truth contains the history of God's chosen people, warts and all. The history of mankind, warts and all.

Uniquely.

>>2643178

What do you think any of this proves? You really have no fucking clue AT ALL, do you? What a clown!

>>2643174
Any righteous gentile who worshiped YHWH as a converted Jew and citizen of Israel IS NO LONGER A CANAANITE.

>>2643180
You better start.

>>2643185
That the Canaanites and the Hebrews were deadly enemies who worshiped entirely different gods.

Not the same people.

It's a shame Joshua didn't kill all of them.

Jesus won't make that same mistake.

>>2643187
By its very nature, the truth doesn't change.

>>2643121
"there can never be less than four at a time" is a hell of a cosmology

>>2643198
So is "There can be only one."

>>2643184
>Yes, he has a much better way, and a way apparently unknown to you.

Impossible. This is an all-powerful being who can defy space and time and logic without effort, if he wanted me to know about him, I would have no choice but to know.

>And yes, the bible as the book of truth contains the history of God's chosen people, warts and all. The history of mankind, warts and all.

On the contrary NO part of the Bible is historical, except for Paul's letters (which are letters to actual people, at least.) Every single time people go looking for actual evidence of a Biblical event, they come up short.

>>2643213
>if

Have you considered the possibility that he just doesn't give a fuck about you personally?

The head of the Ugaritic pantheon, El, also appears in the Bible. His name (and its variant Elohim) is generally used as a term for God, but in a few passages it serves as a proper name. Thus, Psalm 82 begins: “God [Elohim] has taken his place in the Assembly of El, in the midst of the gods [elohim] he holds judgment.” Similarly, Isaiah 14:13 (although in a polemical context) speaks of the “stars of El,” and Deuteronomy 32:8 (following the reading of a Dead Sea scroll and the Greek text) of the “sons of El.” In Exodus 6:2–3 a distinction is made between earlier and later names of the god of Israel: “God [Elohim] spoke to Moses, and he said to him: ‘I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shadday, but by my name, Yahweh, I was not known to them.’” The title “El Shadday,” often mistranslated “God Almighty,” means “El of the Mountain,” or “El, the One of the Mountain.” In the Ugaritic texts El lived at the “cosmic mountain” that was the source of fresh water, and the biblical epithet reflects this mythology. Moreover, like El, the god of Israel presided over the assembly of the gods, as in 1 Kings 22:19 and Job 1–2.
Other titles of El in the Ugaritic texts also have echoes in the Bible. Thus, in Genesis 21:33, Yahweh is styled “El, the Eternal One,” similar to El’s title “the Father of Time.” The phrase “the Mighty One of Jacob” (Gen. 49:24 etc.) should probably be rendered “the Bull of Jacob,” recalling El’s identification as “the Bull.” The liturgical phrase “Yahweh, Yahweh, a merciful and gracious god [el], slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness” (Exod. 34:6 etc.), is a variant of “El the Kind, the Compassionate.”

>>2643230
The popularity of the worship of Baal in Israel is illustrated both by repeated attacks on it by biblical writers and by the use of Baal as an element in personal names. Among others, Saul and David gave their children names containing Baal (an example is Baalyada’, meaning “Baal knows”). As with the name of El, which may also mean “god,” Baal also means “lord,” and so this word does not always refer to the god. One reason for Baal’s appeal for the Israelites is that many of Yahweh’s characteristics and much of the language used to describe him either resemble Baal’s nature or were derived from him. Both gods are called “Rider on the Clouds” (or the like; see Yahweh in Ps. 68:4), and Yahweh in Psalm 29 is remarkably similar to Baal in the Baal Cycle.24 Like Baal, Yahweh was the victorious warrior who had shown his mastery over the sea; like Baal, Yahweh revealed himself on a mountain in the midst of a storm; like Baal, Yahweh had a temple built of cedar.

The poetic techniques used by the ancient authors of the Ugaritic texts have much in common with those employed in the Bible.19 As in biblical poetry, the chief formal characteristic of Ugaritic verse consists of matching lines (what scholars often call parallelism), a characteristic not lost in translation. A parallelistic unit typically consists of two or three lines (called a bicolon or a tricolon). They often match in terms of meaning (what scholars call “synonymous parallelism”), as in the following lines:
Let me tell you, Prince Baal,
let me repeat, Rider on the Clouds:
Now, your enemy, Baal,
now you will kill your enemy,
now you will annihilate your foe.
You will take your eternal kingship,
your dominion forever and ever.

This speech consists of a tricolon framed by two bicola; each is marked by repetitive and synonymous parallelism. Not only the technique but the lines themselves are familiar from the Hebrew Bible:
Behold your enemies, Yahweh,
behold, your enemies perish,
all evildoers are scattered. (Psalm 92:9 [Hebrew 92:10])
Your kingship is an eternal kingship,
your dominion is forever and ever. (Psalm 145:13)

>>2643186

And what about the Canaanites who worshipped Yahweh alongside his wife and the other gods of the Canaanite pantheon? Are they Israelites?

>>2643194
>That the Canaanites and the Hebrews were deadly enemies

Yes, obviously.

>who worshiped entirely different gods.

Not even close to true. Either you know exactly nothing about Canaanite mythology or you're a liar. Since you're a Christian, I'm included to go with liar. You "people" really are the most shamelessly dishonest cunts I've ever had dealings with. But on the off chance that you're just a moron and not a liar, "No." El is Yahweh, as his title of Elohim makes clear. The Israelites abandoned most of their gods and certainly waged a genocidal war of conquest (funny how "you people" are so prone to genocide) against their former countrymen but it's just not true to say only the Israelites worshipped Yahweh.

>>2643204
You'll hear no arguments from me on that.

>>2643196

You mean except when Jesus wipes out the old truth and establishes a new one?

>>2643225

Then he isn't all-loving, is he?

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>>2642533
Good evening my fellow zoroastrian. Have you praised Ahura mazda today yet?

>>2643006
You don't have to be a believer of an ancient religion to discuss it. Why are you even on /his/?

>>2643253

He can be all loving or not all loving and both, doesn't matter. Grace, that he may love you enough to remain silent.

However you may want God to act doesn't matter, because he is the source of truth itself and doesn't have to listen to you. You are attempting to use terminology the full scope of which you clearly cannot never hope to grasp.

>>2643290

YOU'RE the one placing bizarre limitations on your god, dumb-dumb. So he's all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipresent, all-loving, and he wants to have a personal relationship with me? And yet the best way he can think of to reveal this is via a book that contains many obviously false and wicked passages, and that in any event is indistinguishable from any other man-made holy text? Yeah, no. You've been conned into joining a cult that exists purely to make money and exercise power here in the actual world.

>>2643304
>he wants to have a personal relationship with me

I distinctly remember implying the opposite in fact. Pathetic.

>best way he can think of to reveal this

Why would he choose the best way? Maybe he just hates your guts personally and is just making fun of you, ever think of that? Doesn't have to though, unless he decides he actually does have to.

>>2643078
If God is infinite in His very nature, then to create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift, God would have to create something greater than Himself - who is infinite - which is impossible.
But not only that, God would have to deal with physical realities that simply make the proposition in our universe impossible.
Firstly, God cannot create a physical rock of infinite mass, because no such matter can exist on our plane of existence. Matter is, by its very nature, finite.
Secondly, we have to look at what it means to "lift" something to begin with. To "lift" means to elevate something against the current predominant gravitational field. Newton's law of universal gravitation suggests that the gravitational pull between two objects is directly proportional to their masses. So not only would God have to create something of infinite mass, but He would have to create a plane of existence where there is an infinite force of gravity acting against Him to lift the mass, but the plane of existence would also have to act in such a way that its gravity was somehow greater than the infinite mass.
So, if God were to fundamentally alter the gravitational coefficient, the laws of gravity, or the definition of lift - and thus cause the physical universe as we know it to cease - then yes, He could create something of so great a mass that He could not lift it, thus causing the end of all things.
But, as we see, this is simply impossible.

Are there any ancient Zoroastrian paintings like the Christian frescoes and icons that are known of?

>>2643327

Why would I (or anyone) worship a god who hates me? You really are a dumb bastard.

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>>2642533

French converted to Zoroastrianism reporting in !

Best religion ever !

>>2643331
>If God is infinite in His very nature, then to create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift, God would have to create something greater than Himself - who is infinite - which is impossible.

Then he is NOT omnipotent. I can go in my back yard and pile mud on mud until the pile is too heavy for me to lift, apparently I can do something an "omnipotent" being can't do.

>>2643349
You can't convert. You're just a poser.

>>2643352
That's nice, dear.

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>>2643344
At least you'll have someone to blame when shit goes badly.

>>2643344
>Why would I (or anyone) worship a god who hates me?

Maybe it would be a better idea to try and not make an omnipotent entity angry at you personally, or even just simply bored with you. Man you really are something else, what a discerning and acute mind.

Why do you assume all of a sudden that God hates you anyways? Seems as logical to blankly assume God loves you, given what it seems you actually know of the matter. I wonder if there is even a possible way for you to improve your chances of finding out.

>>2643360

Not for your god it isn't. Or rather, not for the concept of omnipotence, which is incoherent, as this little exercise demonstrated.

>>2643361

I already have someone to blame: Past Anon. He's always one step ahead!

>>2643368
You tell 'em, champ.

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>>2643272
>Burning the people who wont shut up about islam, christianity, and judiasm in a completely unrelated thread.
Does that count?

>>2643355

>You can't convert. You're just a poser.
Quote related

Yasna 31 Verse 3:
What shall Thou, O God, bestow upon us through Thy spiritual lights? What is the bliss attainable through truth and purity which has been promised to all? What order has been issued in respect of the learned ones? Explain to me, O Mazda, whole of the said facts and enlightened me with Thy inspiring words, so that I may convert all the people into the right path.

Anywy i read the Gathas everyday and say the Ahuna Vairya five time a day so i'm indeed a convert

>>2643366
Why do you assume all of a sudden that God hates you anyways?

He's probably a fag who refuses to abandon his faggotry because stretching his asshole is just that important to him.

>>2643381
Not that anon, but yes, that does count in my eyes.

>>2643366
>Why do you assume all of a sudden that God hates you anyways?

You raised it you dumb fuck. Remember this:
>Maybe he just hates your guts personally and is just making fun of you, ever think of that?

If there is a god I'm certain he doesn't want a personal relationship with us, because if he did it would be overwhelmingly obvious to everyone. But I'm not the one trying to make this indifferent being fit the Christian "all-loving" doctrine, that's your problem.

>>2643349
Interesting, do tell.
Ignore
>>2643355
^ ignorant that only the Indian sects of Zoroastrianism care about dieing out because their culture external of their religion tells them to

>>2643373

I accept your utterly graceless surrender. You can go now, I'm done with you.

>>2643384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2B_807Qyao
This.

>>2643384
People assume that because the Parsi of India do not accept converts, it is impossible to convert to Zoroastrianism. It is possible to convert to other Zoroastrian communities, though for political reasons there is no proselytizationin Iran proper.

The Parsi are the largest community left, though, so I can see why folks would assume you plain can't convert.

>>2643401
Exactly.
If you look at most middle eastern countries they are quite fond of murdering and forcing religious minority out of their countries. So its basically impossible to proselytize within the state of Iran, however I do know there is a growing movement of Zoroastrians within California.

>>2643401
>>2643384

Zoroastrians don't accept converts for one very simple reason: It's illegal for them to do so in Iran and India, and has been so for so long that it's become an iron rule. But there's nothing stopping you adopting the Parsi religion and worshipping in the Persian fashion if you want to, no-one is going to come and kill you or tell you that you're not a "!real" Zoroastrian.

>>2643386
btfo memelord detected

>>2643391
Why the fuck would you believe me? Does God force me to tell the truth?

>if he did it would be overwhelmingly obvious to everyone

You're implying you actually know what almighty God himself would do. Your meager definition of what is best doesn't matter in the slightest, it is less than dust but by God's express will.

Why do you assume I'm a Christian? Is it because you're tipping hard right now and need a convenient strawman to tip?

>>2643381
Do you have the link to the pics of other zoroastrian angels?

>tfw will never be [spoiler]Mithraist like my ancestors[/spoiler]

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>>2643419
>tfw still shitposting unrelated religious topics on a thread which actually outlines the discussion parameters of "Pre-islamic Persia and Zoroastrianism"

>>2643419
>Why the fuck would you believe me? Does God force me to tell the truth?

Clearly not, since like all Christians your dishonesty is shameless.

>You're implying you actually know what almighty God himself would do.

I'm implying that an all-powerful, omnipresent, omniscient being could come up with a better idea than a holy book that has lead to literally thousands of years of confusion and rival holy wars costing untold billions of lives.

>>2643435
"/his/ was a mistake"
- Hiroshima (2016)

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>>2643422
I wish but no,lol I just googled "Zoroastrian art" and "Zoroastrian architecture" and started filling my zoroposting folder as of today. There is some really good stuff out there but limited quantity, Im a drawfag so maybe next drawthread /his/ holds I will add to the supply.

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>>2642533
How close is Manichaeism to Zoroastrianism?

>>2643419
>Why do you assume I'm a Christian?

Because literally no other religious group behaves like you "people". You fling retarded shit around like an autist and then complain about persecution when you get called out. Prove me wrong, show me your kippa / prayer mat.

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>>2643447
>out of nowhere yamaguchi saves /his/ from its self by using his 10000 folded nippon steel to ward of non related topics posted by ADHD religious zelots who cannot go 1 thread without shilling for whatever brand of salvation they have

>>2643449

There's a definite relationship but Manicheaism is a syncretic religion that combines ideas from as far afield as Buddhism, traditional Mesopotamian religion, Egyptian and Greek ideas and really anything else Mani could find, which was a lot since he lived in Mesopotamia when it was still the center of civilization and he read very widely.

>>2643449
Which form? Classical Zoroastrianism (pre-Sassanid) or Sassanid/modern Orthdox Zoroastrianism? Because with the latter, I don't think it was that close considering the culling.

>>2643443
oh so you do need a strawman DEUS VULT XD

>could come up with a better idea

So what? Are you gonna tell him, "oh yeah it would be better if I actually got laid once literally God" or are you just going to pout because God himself chooses not to care what you think is good and evil?

>thousands of years of fun and holy wars costing untold billions of sides.

Don't you think a wider perspective might suit you better? We do live in the best of all possible worlds after all.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simurgh

The simurgh is depicted in Iranian art as a winged creature in the shape of a bird, gigantic enough to carry off an elephant or a whale. It appears as a peacock with the head of a dog and the claws of a lion - sometimes, however, also with a human face. The simurgh is inherently benevolent and unambiguously female. Being part mammal, she suckles her young. The simurgh has teeth. It has an enmity towards snakes, and its natural habitat is a place with plenty of water. Its feathers are said to be the colour of copper, and though it was originally described as being a dog-bird, later it was shown with either the head of a man or a dog.

Iranian legends consider the bird so old that it had seen the destruction of the world three times over. The simurgh learned so much by living so long that it is thought to possess the knowledge of all the ages. In one legend, the simurgh was said to live 1,700 years before plunging itself into flames (much like the phoenix).

The simurgh was considered to purify the land and waters and hence bestow fertility. The creature represented the union between the Earth and the sky, serving as mediator and messenger between the two. The simurgh roosted in Gaokerena, the Hōm (Avestan: Haoma) Tree of Life, which stands in the middle of the world sea (Vourukasha). The plant is potent medicine and is called all-healing, and the seeds of all plants are deposited on it. When the simurgh took flight, the leaves shook, making all the seeds of every plant fall out. These seeds floated around the world on the winds of Vayu-Vata and the rains of Tishtrya, in cosmology taking root to become every type of plant that ever lived and curing all the illnesses of mankind.

>>2643459
>>2643447

Want to save /his/? Thread ids. It worked in /pol/, it revealed that it's only ever one or two autists spamming the same stupid shit in every thread and a whole technique of trolling was removed.

>>2643469
>So what?

So what? So I, a mere ape, can come up with a better holy text than the all powerful, all knowing creator of the Universe? This doesn't set off a warning bell for you? Like that maybe your "god" is just a fairytale like all the others, and your holy text is just a collection of myths?

>We do live in the best of all possible worlds after all.

Demonstrably false since you exist in it.

>>2643470
What is it with desert people and their tendencies towards mental illness?

>>2643482
>I, a mere ape, can come up with a better holy text than the all powerful, all knowing creator of the Universe

maybe in your inestimable monkey opinion

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>>2643470
Beautiful, thanks for sharing anon

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>>2643470
The Simurgh made its most famous appearance in the Ferdowsi's epic Shahnameh (Book of Kings), where its involvement with the Prince Zal is described. According to the Shahnameh, Zal, the son of Saam, was born albino. When Saam saw his albino son, he assumed that the child was the spawn of devils, and abandoned the infant on the mountain Alborz.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahnameh )

Harā Bərəzaitī, literally meaning "High Watchpost", is the name given in the Avestan language to a legendary mountain around which the stars and planets revolve.

In the ancient Zoroastrian scriptures of the Avesta, Harā Bərəzaitī is the source of all mountains of the world, that is, all other mountains and ranges are but lateral projections that originate at High Hara. So, for instance, the mountains of the Hindu Kush (Avestan: ishkata; Middle Persian: kofgar) appear in Yasht 19.3 as one of the spurs of High Hara.

In Avestan cosmogony, High Harā is the geographic center of the universe, immediately surrounded by the steppes of the Airyanem Vaejah, the first of the seven lands created by Ahura Mazda. It is a polar mountain around which the stars revolve; it is also the mountain behind which the sun hides at night.

The pinnacle of High Hara is Mount Hukairya, "Of good activity" (Yasht 10.88), from which springs the source of all waters of the world. These waters rush down from the mountain as the mighty world river Arədvī Sūrā Anāhitā, which in turn feed the great sea Vourukaša, upon which the world rests. (See Aban, "the Waters" for details). As the source of this mighty river, and so connected to fertility, Mount Hukairya is "the verdant, which deserves all praise" (Yasht 5.96)

>>2643470
>a peacock with the head of a dog

What the fuck that's a terrible design. Now a dog with the head of a peacock, THERE'S a horror for the ages!

Oh wait that's just a griphon.

>>2643484
>what is it with teenagers and distaste for good art and interesting mythology?

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>>2643489
Harā is tall and luminous, free from darkness and the predations of the daēvas, the "false gods" that are later considered to be evil spirits. The sacred plant haoma grows on Harā. It is also the home of the yazata Mithra. It is the site in legend of sacrifices (yasnas) to the yazatas Mithra, Sraoša, Arədvī Sūrā Anāhitā, Vayu, and Druvāspa, by sacrificers such as the divine priest Haoma (epitome of the sacred plant) and kings like Haošyaŋha and Yima.

In the Vendidad, High Hara is at one end of the Činvat bridge, the bridge of judgement that all souls must cross. The bridge then spans the lands of the daēvas, i.e. hell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hara_Berezaiti

>>2642538
The word is Magus.
https://youtu.be/tQPtKNZpfz4

>>2643487

Want an improved version of the Bible? Just add the line "and don't enslave one another, that's naughty. Also rape is a no-no, that's only cool when I do it."

Boom, untold suffering alleviated, not a single part of your theology harmed in any way.
>Ape 1
>Omnipotent Wizard 0

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>>2643498
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frashokereti
Frashokereti (frašō.kərəti) is the Avestan language term for the Zoroastrian doctrine of a final renovation of the universe, when evil will be destroyed, and everything else will be then in perfect unity with God (Ahura Mazda). The name suggests "making wonderful, excellent".

The doctrinal premises are (1) good will eventually prevail over evil; (2) creation was initially perfectly good, but was subsequently corrupted by evil; (3) the world will ultimately be restored to the perfection it had at the time of creation; (4) the "salvation for the individual depended on the sum of [that person's] thoughts, words and deeds, and there could be no intervention, whether compassionate or capricious, by any divine being to alter this." Thus, each human bears the responsibility for the fate of his own soul, and simultaneously shares in the responsibility for the fate of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant
Saoshyant (Avestan: Saoš́iiaṇt̰) is the Avestan language expression that literally means "one who brings benefit", and which is used in several different ways in Zoroastrian scripture and tradition. In particular, the expression is the proper name of the Saoshyant, an eschatological saviour figure who bring about Frashokereti, the final renovation of the world in which evil is finally destroyed. The term was contracted to 'Soshans' in Zoroastrian tradition, and came to apply to three saviour figures that progressively bring about the final renovation.

>>2643503
>suffering is bad

YOU ARE LIKE A LITTLE BABY

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"Shahāb ad-Dīn" Yahya ibn Habash Suhrawardī (Persian: شهابالدین سهروردی, also known as Sohrevardi) was a Persian[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] philosopher and founder of the Iranian school of Illuminationism, an important school in Islamic philosophy and mysticism that drew upon Zoroastrian and Platonic ideas. The "light" in his "Philosophy of Illumination" is a divine and metaphysical source of knowledge.

In this Persian work Partaw Nama and his main Arabic work Hikmat al-Ishraq, Suhrawardi makes extensive use of Zoroastrian symbolism[17] and his elaborate angelology is also based on Zoroastrian models.[17] The supreme light he calls both by its Quranic and Mazdean names, al-nur al-a'zam (the Supreme Light) and Vohuman (Bahman). Suhrawardi refers to the hukamayya-fars (Persian philosophers) as major practitioners of his Ishraqi wisdom and considers Zoroaster, Jamasp, Goshtasp, Kay Khusraw, Frashostar and Bozorgmehr as possessors of this ancient wisdom.
Among pre-Islamic Iranian symbols and concepts used by Suhrawardi are: minu (incorporeal world), giti (corporeal world), Surush (messenger, Gabriel), Farvardin (the lower world), gawhar (pure essence), Bahram, Hurakhsh (the Sun), shahriyar (archetype of species), isfahbad (light in the body), Amordad (Zoroastrian angel), Shahrivar (Zoroastrian angel), and the Kiyani Khvarenah.

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>>2643503
Does it really make you feel good about yourself arguing about completely unrelated topics and derailing an actually decent thread? Do you feel smart like a "MS paint whompst wojack" yet?

>>2643510

Yeah nothing at all like the Judeo-Christian conception of Judgement Day. Also
>and there could be no intervention, whether compassionate or capricious, by any divine being to alter this

his is pure sequalbait, no wonder it got BTFO by a cult that claimed it COULD swing the verdict in your favor.

>>2643503
muh feelies

>>2643515
what else do you expect from christcucks?

it's their fucking nature

>>2643514
Really interesting does his philosophical works still exist within islamic mysticism? Or has it been deemed heretical and removed from whatever their cannon is?

>>2643512

Says the manchild with an invisible fiend! and yes, suffering is bad. If "bad"means anything at all, then suffering must fall within it. And if you claim otherwise then I ask you, what's worse than suffering? more suffering? Death? Surely if you suffer long enough, you would wish for death?

>>2643482
>So what? So I, a mere ape, can come up with a better holy text than the all powerful, all knowing creator of the Universe?
No you haven't you absolute sperg

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>>2643394
Well

I started as a Catholic, not very practicing but i still went to church for the big feast and went to the Joan of Arc Feast Day, then i basically became a bit more serious and started to read the bible, i though it made little sense(6 days creation, talking snake, and so on) but i comforted myself by reading the commentaries of the Church Fathers(especially Augustine) who conveniently changed the sense to make it seems logical which led me to become even more serious.

I started to listen cathechical lessons, it's when i started to DESPISE catholicism, their lessons was a mess of "rapefugees welcome" "we're all brothers" "muh religion of peace" "race don't matter" "we're all africans", but i wasn't still willing to let it go so i shifted to a more traditional catholicism, i listened to the lessons but although less faggy it was ininteresting and in total contradiction with the faith in the bible, anyway, after that i rode the "Muh Based Orthodox"-train until i heard about a few event that happened during the Kosovo War,, some Serbian priests/monks healed their muslim enemies, some nuns even got raped but it didn't matter to them...

I finally understood that cuckstianity was cucked beyond repair and that it was a miracle that we survived so far with such an harmful religion, after a few research and listening to a podcast of "France Culture" on Zoroastrianism, i thought it fitted my worldview and made sense, thus i converted.

>>2643529
>sufferign is bad because it hurts muh feelies
>if you arent le glorified deist like me u jus hav invisibel fren AND THAS BAD BECUZ I SED SO

>>2643534
its bad becuz things i don liek happen ;ccc
t. Letzter Mensch

>>2643515

The doctrines of Christianity borrow from and are in many ways the successor to Zoroastrianism. Obviously, it's going to come up in such a thread. It's not my fault OP thought to pick a religion with such close ties to Christianity but he did and here we are.

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>>2643529
>>2643526
>its in their nature
Apparently the same can be said for edgy "heuheuh invisible friend, skydaddy" atheist posters.

Perhaps they should make their own thread and jerk each other off in the corner leaving the people in this thread who actually want to learn alone.

>>2643530

So endorsing slavery is better than condemning it? By what possible standard? Gods? Then my standards are better than your gods, and I'm not even a nice person.

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>>2643510
Zahhāk or Zahāk (in Persian: ضحّاک/ذهّاک) or Bivar Asp (Persian: بیوَر اَسپ meaning "he who owns ten thousands of horses") is an evil figure in Iranian mythology, evident in ancient Iranian folklore as Aži Dahāka (Azh dahak), the name by which he also appears in the texts of the Avesta. In Middle Persian he is called Dahāg or Bēvar-Asp, the latter meaning "[he who has] 10,000 horses". In Zoroastrianism, Zahak (going under the name Aži Dahāka) is considered the son of Angra Mainyu, the foe of Ahura Mazda.

Aži (nominative ažiš) is the Avestan word for "serpent" or "dragon."

Aži Dahāka is possessed of all possible sins and evil counsels, the opposite of the good king Jam. The name Dahāg (Dahāka) is punningly interpreted as meaning "having ten (dah) sins." His mother is Wadag (or Ōdag), herself described as a great sinner, who committed incest with her son.

Aži Dahāka is said to have lived in the inaccessible fortress of Kuuirinta in the land of Baβri, where he worshipped the yazatas Arədvī Sūrā (Anāhitā), divinity of the rivers, and Vayu, divinity of the storm-wind. Based on the similarity between Baβri and Old Persian Bābiru (Babylon), later Zoroastrians localized Aži Dahāka in Mesopotamia, though the identification is open to doubt. This could be India and Azi Dahaka could be Adi Sesha. Aži Dahāka asked these two yazatas for power to depopulate the world. Being representatives of the Good, they refused.

Following the death of Jam ī Xšēd (Jamshid), Dahāg gained kingly rule. Another late Zoroastrian text, the Mēnog ī xrad, says that this was ultimately good, because if Dahāg had not become king, the rule would have been taken by the immortal demon Xešm (Aēšma), and so evil would have ruled upon earth until the end of the world.

Dahāg is said to have ruled for a thousand years. He is described as a sorcerer who ruled with the aid of demons, the daevas (divs).

>>2643537

Remind me again what unbelievers face? Something something eternal suffering? Why would god punish us with suffering if suffering isn't "bad"?

>>2643551
>my standards r bettr becuz i sed so
t. Letzter Mensch

btw Christianity doesn't endorse slavery, how about you actually read the Bible instead of reading secondary literature written by antis on the subject?
>>2643554
>eternal suffering
Analogous to complete separation from God. Come on, why don't you ask something that wasn't answered by fucking Augustine? It was probably answered indirectly before that, too.

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>>2643534
>joined the based orthodox train

I know that feel.

I am interested in Persian culture and Zoroastrianism out of intellectual interest, but it does have some neat ideas. I still would consider myself a christian but one thing is for sure is that it is a shit system for keeping people united or cohesive - ive never met 2 Christians that can actually agree on what is right or wrong or if pacifism is the way or deus vult.

>>2643443
>I'm implying that an all-powerful, omnipresent, omniscient being could come up with a better idea than a holy book that has lead to literally thousands of years of confusion and rival holy wars costing untold billions of lives.
Why? becuz u sed so?

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>tfw Christniggers go apoplectic when people discuss comparative and historical religion to the point of spamming threads on shitpostchan

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>>2642533
Whats the Zoroastrian view on racism?

>>2643527
Suhrawardi wrote a few centuries before Twelver Shi'ism became Iran's official religion, but I don't actually know what kind of reputation he has in current day Iran. IIRC Khomeini used Suhrawardi as an authority when arguing against critics of Shi'ism.

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>>2643552
Oh shit that .jpg
Am I the only person who thinks that looks an awful lot like the antagonists in Conan? I wonder if the costume crew got some ideas from this?

>>2643534
>DAYUS VAULT xDDD rejects are the "people" behind zoroastrian threads
what a shame
wonder what'll it be they latch onto next month

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>>2643586

>>2643588
>still shitposting
You do realize that no one is enjoying your comments on this thread? You have been the intellectual equivalent of a buzzing mosquito. Definitely unwanted.

I dont know if you are new to /his/ or if you are just young but I feel sorry for whatever home board you have. You are not funny. You have not provided any other human in this image board even an ounce of amusement or joy. Its just empty characters on an off-white background devoid of any meaning or substance.

>>2643599
This is the god that Charles Manson was obsessed with if memory serves. People post it all the time on twitter but never give any explanation. I know it has something to do with time and fate but that is about it.

>>2643474
I think it goes without question that at least a couple of the posters who shit up any Iran/Persia/Zoroastrian threads are the same guys. Most likely fags from /int/ and /pol/ as well.

>>2643582
Im actually not sure, It would be pretty interesting to have some one dig up some concrete examples from texts. I would assume like most tribal religions they are cloistered and distrustful of outside races and groups but I doubt their teachings cover anything specific to racial groups and not just cultural morays.

>>2643542
Dude

I only gave you the short version but between my Tradtional Catholicism phase and Orthodox phase, i read
>Badhgavad Gita (muh killing your parent is good when it is for God)
>a part of, the Quran (muh alcohol is good and bad at the same time)
>Enneads (muh this world is an emanation of Gods but matter is inferior to higher realm)
>Corpus hermeticum (muh despise this world)
>various work of Plato and Aristotle (muh androgyne myth, muh sexual communism, muh despise this world)
>Various sutras of the Thervada and Mahayan Buddhism (muh soul doesn't exist and there is no continuity between present, past and future self, but we somehow endure rebirth through karma and can remember our past life)
>Various books on Greco-Roman, Celtic, and Egyptian mythologies (muh god raped x then turned into a bull and raped x)

I'm very empirical(except when it comes to christianity due to background obviously) so i like logicial and simple religion and not some obvious BS, thus, after i searched i found Mazdayasna.

Why is there shit from Abrahamic crap in this thread that's dedicated to Zoroastrianism? You fuckers have dozens of threads a week on that stuff, keep it out of here.

>>2642533
>The current theory of Zoroastrian founding is that the "Proto-indo-europeans" which traveled out of Europe and through northern india.

What...

>>2643620
>This is the god that Charles Manson was obsessed with if memory serves.
His song is really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEkHf2lu0R4

It's essentially a time-ruling entity. There's more nuance than that but that'll do for basics.

https://youtu.be/8E9PNFE4dJQ

>>2643630
>despise this world
You should go back through Chaldean Oracles mate.

>>2643510
This seems familiar, Does this have anything to do with Kali Yuga? Do you think there could be some connection between Zoroastrian apocalyptic writings and those of Hinduism considering the early indoeuropean tribes settled in northern India before moving up to Persia?

>>2642722
>And don't you know that words take on different meanings over the ages!
yeah, but a word very close to alah is used t ean god in a few seetic language, the syriac cristians preserve it in their language and hymns, even jesus in day to day speech might have used the same word

>>2643641
>Does this have anything to do with Kali Yuga
Not really.

>those of Hinduism considering the early indoeuropean tribes settled in northern India before moving up to Persia?
Tenuously? Yes. Functionally? Not particularly. Remember, much of this is an inversion and backing away from PIE methods of worship.

I've got a whole book on Zoroastrian eschatology over in my library.

>>2643635
It is the "Aryanic migration theory" it is basically an anthropological view of prehistory backed up by the rigveda, the sanskrit language, and the advent of chariots. Theres no way to prove it or disprove it, but there has been genetic testing done and biological evidence of some extremely early large migration of early Europeans across asian does exist.

Neat exercise to do is google image search "northern indian man southern indian man" and look at the massive difference in completion between the two, definitely something going on more complex than just placement near the equator.

>>2643652
PIE methods of worship? Im not familiar.

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>>2643659
They arent THAT different desu

>>2643567
It's true that Christianity is good when it comes to cohesiveness, but what is the point to be cohesive if you do not work in your own interest ?

The only point of Christian cohesiveness is to do outgroup charity and pay some missionaries who will go in Africa to convert people, while genuine cohesiveness work for the benefit of the ingroup, the Jews are an example.


>>2643582
>Zoroastrianism preach "Good Action",
>Welcoming refugees that will kill you and rape your women is bad for both yourself and your own people
>Being nice to niggers whose only dream is to kill whitey and rape their women is bad for both yourself and your own people
>Being nice to shitskins whose only dream is to invade you and rape your women is bad for both yourself and your own people

Zoroastrianism isn't openly racist, but when you think about doing good thing for your people you will naturally become racist.

>>2643686
That's what generally happens when Indo-Europeans getting so heavily assimilated by the people they conqueror there's little to differentiate them from their subjects.

>>2643717
>shitskins

What do you think zoroastrians originally are? They also wouldnt commit crimes if they would adhere to zoroastrianism. You should consider a black zoroastrian your brother just like any other one

>>2643730
To me Zoroastrianism is a tribal religion that preach Goodness and Purity that's all

Thus, there is no such thing as a "Black Zoroastrian brother who will marry my daughter"

>>2643796
it wasn't really tribal. there were median, scythian, and parthian zorastrians. even some kurds today are zorastrian.

>>2643796
Zoroastrianism isnt bound by tribalism

>>2643881
Zoroastrianism was largely though limited to Iranians/Iranic peoples though.

>>2643652
you seem to know a lot about Zoro, so is there a decent book that summarizes their beliefs/mythology like Edith Hamilton's Mythology does for the Greeks/Romans?

>>2643630
>empiricism is correct because some redditors told me
Logic is your god, you worship the idea of gold.
Absolute child.

>>2643006
As opposed to eating bread and wine by claiming its Jesus' body and blood. Yea thats real fucking serious shit committing cannibalism on your own god. Fuck outta here with that weak shit.

>>2643167
>Because it is influenced by, and founded upon, Jewish principles
Literally no proof, but hey! WE WUZ ZORASTER!

>>2642659
>implying zoroaster wasn't one of Allah's (PBUH) many prophets

>>2643282
And now I'm bringing up a point of discussion that Zoroastrianis and their apologists like to sweep under the carpet.

>>2644108
Kek who said anything about Christianity? Impregnating your mother and then washing your dick with urine are above and beyond the most ridiculous religious practices I've come across.

More fun facts:
>Ahriman literally brought forth all the evil existence by sodomising himself
>srs

>If you see a known homosexual that man is literally a demon and the Zoroastrian is obliged to kill him on sight
>32. Ahura Mazda answered: 'The man that lies with mankind as man lies with womankind, or as woman lies with mankind, is the man that is a Daeva; this one is the man that is a worshipper of the Daevas, that is a male paramour of the Daevas, that is a female paramour of the Daevas, that is a wife to the Daeva; this is the man that is as bad as a Daeva, that is in his whole being a Daeva; this is the man that is a Daeva before he dies, and becomes one of the unseen Daevas after death: so is he, whether he has lain with mankind as mankind, or as womankind.'
http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd8sbe.htm

There you go. Now you guys can stop LARPing about Aryan this and Indo-European that, and actually discuss the finer points of this super-enlightened ancient religion.

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Why is the Faravahar symbol a copy paste of the Ashur symbol?

>>2643153
Study quantum physics and you'll see plenty of things that defy logic, and that's just in the natural world.

>>2643384
Holy shit. A legit unironic LARPer. A pleasure to meet you.

Tell me, my good man, have you fucked your mother today?

>>2643401
Because the continuity of the priesthood is fundamental to Zoroastrian belief and life. Reading the Gathas and saying the prayers are not enough to be a Zoroastrian. You must participate in the liturgical life and there's an obligation to get married to another Zoroastrian - which no Zoroastrian priest will perform for a wannabe.

So if you just want to call yourself a Zoroastrian without the approval of the actual Zoroastrian community at large, you're at best a LARPer and at worst a Zoroastrian Protestant.

>>2645255
Because there's nothing original about Zoroastrianism. It's literally Copy+Paste: The Religion.

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>>2644089
>Logic is your god,
Ahura Mazda is the God of Wisdom after all

Anyway, a religion who tell you
>to love your enemies
>to not resit evil,
>to turn the other cheek,
>to love a complete stranger(muh christian brother) rather than your own family
>to let yourself be killed and feeling proud of it because of ""muh martyr"

is clearly a kike trap to destroy anyone practicing it

>>2645283
Is this the shittiest bait post in the thread?

>>2646065
Really there's a long string of 'em.

Ignore the fuckposters and focus on the archaeohistory and source texts.

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>>2646075
Is this man a saint in Zoroastrianism?

>>2643115
DELET THIS

>>2646091
ya piruz ya ali :^)

>>2646091
>Zoroastrianism
>Saints
No.

Iranian folk hero? Sorta. Depends on your degree of religiosity and nationalism.

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>>2646091
>post yfw this man still makes Arabs and Sunni Muslims extra salty to this day

>>2643543
There's closer ties to Hinduism than there is Christianity.

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>>2646125

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>actually good thread about interesting, historical, non-abrahamic religion
>Cuntstains and Mudslimes can't control their autism and shitpost incessently

Abrahamism is a scourge on man's intellect

>>2646131

Not really, Hinduism shares more vocabulary but it is of course polytheistic while Zoroastrians and Christians have only one object of veneration (well some Christians are polytheists, but real Christians ie Protestants aren't)

>>2643728
There's not much of a difference between the conquered inhabitants of the middle east or Iran tho. Why is it just India?

>>2646146

Iran was sparsely populated before the Iranians, India had been densely settled and urban for thousands of years. So had the Middle East of course but the native stock there wasn't Dravidian.

>>2646145
That's just one. I've read about how there's much more similarities between the two than there is differences before in a long post.

>>2646154
>but the native stock there wasn't Dravidian.
Yeah they were something else. But as it stands, Iranians and Middle Easterners got INDO'd so hard they basically became the same ethnic group.

Gotta appreciate pajeet genes. Amazing how they stuck out this long.

>>2646163
Modern Iranians are closer related to their Iron Age predecessors then they are to most other modern day Semites in the Levant or Middle East though. I guess with the exception of Eastern Iraqis who are generally closer to Iranians then other Arab speakers.

>>2646145
Except there are a number of intermediary deities (Yazata) through which veneration of Ahura Mazda is mediated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazata

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>>2646176
>Modern Iranians are closer related to their Iron Age predecessors then they are to most other modern day Semites in the Levant or Middle East though. I guess with the exception of Eastern Iraqis who are generally closer to Iranians then other Arab speakers.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but Iranian's cluster more to Middle Easterners than the ancient Indo-European's (who had more in common with modern euros).

>>2642588

If he was so proud how come he changed his name?

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>>2646192
Iranian's are Caucasian yes, but they've lost most of their Europeaness.

>>2642623

Is it really true that Zoroastrianism had no punishment for the wicked in the afterlife? I remember reading that there was some kind of damnation where the unrighteous are tormented by their bad conscience.

>>2646203
>iranians are caucasian
That word doesnt mean what you think it means, Alireza

>>2646115
Saoshyants ?

>>2646225
>Saoshyants
Are the heralds of the Eschaton.

>>2642533
Doesn't Zoroastrianism ban converts?

>>2646091

*kills your kaliph*

Oops sorry bro

>>2646203
>Europeaness
No such term exists.

>>2646192
This really does not have anything to do with what I said.

>>2642533
So, I've seen someone on /his/ claim that the oldest manuscript currently known of a Zoroastrian text is dated to like the 12th century AD. Is that true? If so, how do we know anything about Zoroastrianism, which I'm to understand existed for a bit less than 3,000 years prior to that in some form or another.

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>>2646217

>>2646145
>what is brahman

>>2646225
A Saoshyant would be closer to a type figure Jesus then a Saint.

>>2646717
No.
The oldest Avestan manuscript comes from ca 10th C in China. It's a copy of the Ashem Vohu, one of the more important prayers.

Before that it was on an oral memorization tradition, not unlike the methods of memorizing the Vedas.

And if they can preserve THEIR shit using multiple syllabic duplication in a song structure with zero error, I have little doubt of the capability of the Zoroastrians.

In any case the manuscript implies the textual tradition was super strong, but that they were either rarely printed or printed on low quality paper (for the environment).

>>2646343
No, see >>2643384

You can't become a Parsi without being born a Parsi. Parsi culture =/= the Totality of Zoroastrianism.

>>2646091
>>2646669
*kills your caliphate*
*and half a dozen of his guards*
Nothing personal, Umar.

>>2646702
>No such term exists.
Of course it does. Don't be offended that you're the only one that thinks you're white or ""indo European" my friend.

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>>2647551
Very low quality. Try harder next time.

>>2647551
>I am MERELY pretending to be retarded.

>>2647562
>>2647588
Yes there were Indo-European migrations, but then like the India's, the natives mixed with the locals and now they have a distinctive look and aren't IE nor similar to the natives.

Apart from posting, cherry-picked images, no-one would ever confuse a 'swarthy' South Europeaner with with a typical Arab (that isn't from the Levant) or a Persian.

>>2647704
Well, duh.

None of the descendants of those original migratory peoples look like their ancestors. Furthermore, the cultures and languages have also changed. But that doesn't somehow negate their heritage.

Focusing on ethnicity and looks is the most superficial POV anyway. What's more important is the shared history and linguistic.

A Western European going on about how he's more IE than an Iranian is literally no better than WE WUZ.

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Rigveda literally talks about blonde men slaughtering the disgusting poo people Dravidians. It is amusing that WE WUZ is actually correct for Aryans in the middle east being Europeans racially. That's not saying a Western European WUZ actually an east-Aryan. Though with Slavs it's more plausible due to the many assimilated Scythian and Sarmatian tribes. R1a is big in the old Aryan east.

>>2648479
>Rigveda literally talks about blonde men slaughtering the disgusting poo people Dravidians
Gimme a verse.

>>2646192
Why do iranians cluster much more with georgians than armenians despite sharing no border with first but with the latter?

>>2646217
He probably meant caucasoid. As for caucasian I think a small part of the caucasus region extends to iran so theres that.

>>2643153

>everything I can't understand is incoherent

to you maybe

>>2647704
No one looks like the original Indo-Europeans anymore. North Caucasians are probably the most PIE looking and they are closer related to iran and the middle east than europe

>>2647704
I've seen plenty of swarthy ass looking Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, and Portuguese who don't look at all that much different from your average Levant hailing Arab or Semitic person.

>>2648578
Georgia has been dominanted and culturally entrenched by Iranians for a LONG time. In fact up till its permanent loss either late in the Safavid period or in the Qajar period (can't remember which specifically), Georgia was concerned just as vital to Iranian heartlands as Pars.

>>2642588
>was intensely proud of his Persian Zoroastrian heritage.
Then why was he a fag, and therefore would not pass on his genes so that there would be more Zoroastrians?

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Zoroastrian convert here. Down to answer any questions!

>>2642763
In certain areas, like the tibetan plateau or siberian tundra, its just a pain in the ass to dig a whole or start a big ass fire. Thats why its a common practice in different areas.

>>2649207
1. Whats your ethnicity?

2. Why did you convert?

3. Are you pious?

>>2649317

1. Afro-Caribbean/Latin American.
2. The simplicity, the beauty, the truth.
3. Very.

>>2649336
How do you practice your belief?

>>2649452

Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds.
Constant reading of the Gathas and apocrypha.
Prayers and celebrations.
Living a joyous life.

>>2649535
Do you know any other zoroastrians near your place? Where do you live?

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Zoroastrians are gay

>>2649207
Have you had any experiences where you believe Ahura Mazda was present and active?

>>2649644
No u

>>2649671

That's not how Ahura Mazda works.

>>2649591

Texas and a few.

>>2650088
Do other people know about it or do you just keep it to yourself?

>>2646199
It was his artist name

>>2649207
How does it feel knowing no Zoroastrian girl will ever marry you because you're a convert?

>>2650628
>no Parsi girl is likely to marry you because you're not a Parsi

ftfy

>>2650088
>a few
Zoroastrianism is stronger than most folks think.
A lot of the non-Parsi population and even some Parsis are figuring out in a shitbang hurry that the faith will evaporate without outreach.

Yes, it's mostly ethnic but if you walk into any give FEZANA body you will not be turned away if your Aspiration is sincere.

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>>2650639
Fucking hell.
Forgot pic.

>>2650635
>implying there's a difference

Good luck finding Iranian Zoroastrian women outside Iran.

[spoiler] wearing a farvahar necklace doesn't make her Zoroastrian [/spoiler]

>>2650639
You're severely mistaken if you think Zoroastrianism will not be subject to the same atrophy that ALL religions are experiencing in the West.

Intermarriage and secularism will kill Zoroastrianism whereas repeated Muslim and Mongol invasions didn't. It's ironic, sad, and inevitable.

>>2650635
But they dont exist

They are all arab and mixed with other people

>>2650808
This meme again

>>2650888
What meme?

Cant you just look at their population?

Many of them dont look different from arabs

>>2650702
I mean, there should be a fairly decent population of them anywhere FEZANA's operating: >>2650645

They need warm bodies of the correct ethnic background to function. Go look 'em up.

>>2650707
It already is subject to atrophy.

>intermarriage
That won't kill the tradition.

>secularism
This, probably, will.

>>2643153
dis neger knows

>>2643170
OMG EXACTLY!!!
are you me <3

Does Zoroastrianism name the Jew?

>>2643304
This anon speaks so much truth. Dude he is talking to is BTFO

>>2650963
>Middle Easterners don't look radically different from other Middle Easterners
Fuck, what a mystery.

>>2651018
Intermarriage (religious, not racial - I'm not a /pol/fag) and secularism feed off each other. With each diluted generation, the tradition is further marginalised.

It's an indisputable fact that intermarriage is more likely to detriment religiosity between the spouses and certainly the children.

And that's not even to mention that many (most) mobeds won't consider such marriages valid and any offspring not Zoroastrian and thus excluded from the community and the priesthood.

What will Zoroastrianism do when no one wants to tend the fire?

>>2651091
P.S. This is all the more damaging to Zoroastrianism when the huge emphasis on the nuclear family and the raising of children is considered.

>>2651091
>each diluted generation
Ethnicity isn't rigid or 'purist'. Each child of a Zoroastrian and non (lel) will have the opportunity to continue to adopt the culture.

It's secularism that'll be the ethnocutlural 'gotcha'.

>and any offspring not Zoroastrian
Parsi =/= Zoro.
You can bring a non blooded individual into the fold. It's REALLY not hard. Most of this exclusionary rhetoric and trajectory comes from conflation of Parsi notions of ethnocultural transmission and predestination to the entirety of Zoroastrianism.

The Gathas are clear; Zoroaster's teachings are for ALL.

>>2650109

I'm very open about it, actually.

>>2650628

Dude, I'm polyamorous (no rule against it in the faith, monogamous cucks) and one of my partners is a Iranian Zoroastrian. Her parents love me because I'm so damn pious yet rational.

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>>2650963
>le original Persians wuz white n shiet

>>2651147

*high fives Ape*

You fucking get it. The Gathas are perfectly clear about what's up. I used to post in /x/ about Zoroastrianism a lot as The Zorro Astrian

>>2651049
it predates the jew

Cyrus was one of the Jewish messiahs. We have a good relationship with them.

>>2651147
The concept of accepting converts really is divergent depending on what particular Zoroastrian community thinks or believes on the matter.

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>>2651147
A Zoroastrian renaissance saving us from a century of total degeneracy would be in interesting twist, but I could see it happening

>>2651958
Well you would need to make zoroastrianism more known to the public

>>2651147
The fact of the matter is that Zoroastrianism is a highly communal religion. And Parsis MAKE UP A MAJORITY of that community whether you like it or not. A convert may find acceptance amongst Zoroastrians in the West easily enough, but a good number here and a majority back in India will ostracise him.

Even Orthodox Jews who give their concerts a hard time eventually do accept them and they are indeed universally accepted.

No such luck with Zoroastrianism. All the great faiths have one thing in common: they missionise, proselytise, and spread the word. Zoroastrians seem happy in their little cultural and academic enclaves - and it will kill them.

>>2651617
Hahahahahaha.

Hahahahaha.

Ha.

Good luck with that.