What are some of your most hated misconceptions of the middle ages?

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That they weren't comfy as fuck

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>>2615977
>Muh crusades
People watch Kingdom of Heaven or some other Hollywood crap and actually think that the Church just wanted to kill as many muslims as possible and conquer the Middle East out of sheer bigotry and imperialism, completely ignoring the domestic factors like getting your fucked up nobles to fight a common enemy rather than each other at the country's expense.

Also, this idea that the Church actively repressed science and kept people in the dark while in reality they were the only ones who kept it from being lost. I'm not even a Christian but this whole "muh evil church" narrative pisses me off, it's almost exactly how the Church itself used to talk about the Roman pagans.

That everything was bleak and boring when That was the time beautiful churches were built and great music and songs were composed
Also the fucking thing about nobles having the right to the brides Virgin pussy, fuck that

>>2615977
that it weren't a backwards, boring and poor shithole

>in general
That England was a more advanced, developed and peaceful country while the rest of Europe was backwards and violent.
>on 4chan
That it was comfy as fuck.
That people weren't considerably more ignorant and bigoted than they were after the Enlightenment (though the uneducated minority was equally stupid)

>>2615977
They were great.

They there was a concept of "humanity". Most people didn't start to think of all humans as being "humans" until the 20th century

>>2616008
It was certainly more peaceful in that statistically, less battles took place there.

That it was either the low point of humanity or a utopia, and not incredibly varied by country and century.

Get over yourself. Please.

>>2615990
welcome to the purple pill. do you swallow the purple pill and will you know the truth about about atheists or will you swallow the blue pill and will you remain forever ignorant to the evil and brutalism of atheistic globalists? make your choice and take your pill of preference.

Probably how a lot of people grossly conflate how much power kings could actually wield and what their lawful powers were.

>>2615984
>being a munk in celibacy is comfy
no, trying nofap is painful enough

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Most of the misconceptions about the middle ages comes from us moderners trying to justify our modern age in comparison to the middle ages. The term itself "middle ages" is modern, it denotes a sort of "transition", a middle step between the darkness of ancient times, and the glory of modernity. It's a bit complex to explain, but this is the spirit that prevails in our time, we feel ourselves superior to every preceding time period, mostly because of our technological innovations like smartphones and satellites.

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>>2616043
>munk
*i meant monk

>>2616034
What, do you think the crusades actually were about killing muslims and that it was a good thing?

>>2616052
where the fuck did i even state that you illiterate fuck? personally i think the crusades were not just about killing muslims but i do think that it is a good thing that they happened.

>>2616028
I should've said Britain.
>Constant wars between the English, Irish, Scots and Welsh
>Danish attacks into the 14th Century
>Massive Civil wars that go unremarked because they've been overshadowed by the War of the Roses, i.e. Simon de Montfort
>massive peasant revolts including the most famous in European history over the poll tax

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>>2616034

That the medieval age was an era of religious harmony untilll an evil German monk ruined everything

>>2615990
This one.
>dude Gallileo lmao
Fucking faggot was persecuted for deliberalely pissing off the Pope in a unrelated matter, not because muh evil church was trying to stop science.

>>2615977
>dirty, dumb, Christian scum

>>2615977
Obviously the "Christian dark ages" or just "dark ages" meme that's been debunked by historians now.

That the Spanish inquisition was so horrifying.
If anything, a lot of women wanted to be judged by the inquisition rather than local rules because the inquisition was milder. They knew the women were lying when they said they went up the mountain and fucked with Satan. There was quite the debate about the existence of devils.
The Italian inquisition was much harsher.

>>2616105
>a lot of women wanted to be judged by the inquisition rather than local rules because the inquisition was milder

The Spanish Crown didn't prosecute "witches" that was the Inquisition's job. Literally every person "properly" convicted of witchcraft or heresy and subsequently executed by the Crown was a victim of the Inquisition.

The fact you know the Italian and German Inquisitions were just as bad shows you're halfway to enlightenment. The stages are:
>The Inquisition killed people and were evil >:(
>The Inquisition wasn't as bad as people said it was
>The Inquisition was as bad as people said it was

I suggest reading Europe's Inner Demons by Norman Cohn.

>>2615990
>this idea that the Church actively repressed science and kept people in the dark while in reality they were the only ones who kept it from being lost
yes it was great that the church went to such lengths to copy and preserve texts, but if it hadn't been for the church Rome wouldn't have fallen so there wouldn't have been a need for preservation in the first place

>>2616098
>the dark ages are a meme meme
there was an extreme decline after the fall of the WRE that lasted for several centuries

>>2615977
"Dark Ages".
Everyone wore brown.
Everyone used swords.
Nobody ever bathed.
Knights were slow.
Guns didn't exist.
Probably more I can't think of.

>>2616060
How was it a good thing? The crusader states collapsed after only two centuries. You can actually argue that the Crusades had a negative effect on Christianity in general because of the disaster that was #4.

>people only lived to about 30

>>2616196
This, so much.
I even tried to explain how medians work, and idiots still refuse to understand.

>>2616161
if you restrict the term to mean early-middle ages, then yes there was a decline because of the fall of WRE. even then, the term "dark ages" still gives the wrong idea for most laymen. its just a term that does more harm than good for understanding.

>However, in the later 20th century other historians became critical even of this nonjudgmental use of the term, for two main reasons.[10] Firstly, it is questionable whether it is ever possible to use the term in a neutral way: scholars may intend this, but ordinary readers may not so understand it. Secondly, 20th century scholarship has exploded understanding of the history and culture of the period,[42] and so it no longer so 'dark' to us. To avoid the value judgment implied by the expression, many historians now avoid it altogether.[43]

>>2616154
>if it hadn't been for the church Rome wouldn't have fallen
nice b8

>>2616034
Brutalism is a type of architecture

>>2616196
Its true that the average person died before 40 though.

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>>2616357
It's a very nice type of architecture.

>>2616375

No. That was the average life expectancy because so many people died as infants and children. If you survived childhood you had an excellent chance of living into your 60s.

>>2616034
Pipe down, Feuerstein.

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>That it was a backward, poor shithole

But it basically was. Europe only became significant upon the advent of the Renaissance and Age of Discovery, which brought wealth as well as scientific/cultural advancement.

Europe in the middle age made very little scientific achievements, compared with say China or the Abbasid caliphate. Additionally, European art was crap at the time (pic related), not because it was basic, but because it was fucking boring.


I know everyone on this board loves to be contrarian, but seriously, would you prefer to be a medieval knight in the 1200s, or a wealthy merchant in Renaissance Italy? Whether or not you want to be autistic about this is entirely up to you.

>>2615977
The so-called "Islamic Golden Age".

>>2616154
Roman Empire existed longer as an explicitly Christian state than it did in any other form

>>2615977
People taking the term dark ages literally rather than knowing it's between the Roman Empire and the enlightenment

>>2616047
No it's just the middle of the ages
Current age
Middle age
Classical age (bronze and Iron Age)

>>2616064
>poll tax
But they couldn't vote?

>>2616086
Indeed, he was a friar, just like Mendeleev

>>2615977
That there were an era of progress. People constantly speak of its achievements and how much it is better than other eras, yet constantly fail to mention it is a 1000 year period being compared to less than 500 years period. That is literally half of when people started to record time so of coz there will be some achievements here and there

>>2615977
That the witch hunts were a thing of the middle ages when most of them actually happened in the early modern period.

>>2616196
That's not even exclusive to the middle ages, most people think modern Africans live until their late twenties and then randomly drop dead.

>>2616467
What did the Abbasid's do?

>>2616143
>Cohn
Sounds Jewish.

>>2615977
That people in mediaeval Europe were all white. In fact, historical records showed many people were brown on the outside but white on the inside, and immigrated to Europe and Britain, as far back as the era of King Arthur.

>>2616008
>That England was a more advanced, developed and peaceful country while the rest of Europe was backwards and violent.
I've never seen this meme in pop culture. I'd say the average normie is perfectly aware of the wars with Scotland or France

>>2616154
Buddy, go read some Augustine.

>>2616758

HOL UP

>>2616520
Not the Western Empire

>>2616590
>People actually claim there was less light during the Dark Ages

>>2616800
So?

>>2616683
Fucking LAPD man

>>2616804
Because that's the only Roman Empire that was actually Roman

>>2616089
>unrelated matter
proof?

>>2616813
Opinion disregarded.

>spears don't work in duels
>vikings were good fighters
>leather armor
>anyone at all giving a fuck about glorious death in battle

>>2616089
Galileo wasn't even from the Middle Ages.

>>2616819
STUDDED
LEATHER

>>2616819
>leather armor
this is a big one. thank dungeons and dragons for that

>>2616818
But we're literally talking about an Empire that contains Rome

>>2616089
Didn't they take till the 18th century to accept the theory?

>>2615977
That there were wild forests in England during the middle ages

>>2616191
>HURR

Without the crusades, Spain is still muslim, and there is no doubt at all that Europe would have faced more muslim invasions and would probably not have survived.

>>2616375

Are people on this board really this fucking stupid?

>>2616846
the capital of the Roman Empire is not Rome it is Istanbul.

>>2617071

Since that Anon is correct, I can only assume it's your own stupidity you are lamenting.

>>2616816
Sobel, Dava (2000) [1999]. Galileo's Daughter. London: Fourth Estate. ISBN 1-85702-712-4.

Galileo's enemies accused him of heresy and then backed the pope into a corner calling him a weak leader and so he was forced to appease them by sentencing Galileo

>>2617058
The Reconquesta wasn't a Crusade.

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>>2617058
>Reconquesta is the same as the crusades

>>2616034
Kill yourself

>>2617102
>>2617107
>DURR

Maybe try reading a book, dumb bastards.

>>2616724
>Islamic
>golden
>age
>>2617107
They're not a Crusade, but they are a crusade

>>2616803
The ice age did cause less light tho

>>2617125

No it doesn't. If anything it makes things brighter because snow has a very high albedo.

>>2616008
>That England was a more advanced, developed and peaceful country while the rest of Europe was backwards and violent.

I live in England and I've never heard anyone imply this ever, where are you getting this meme from?

>>2616064
Peasant revolts were pretty rare and the 1381 didn't really involve that many people desu

>>2617137

It's an American meme afaict. Also a Britshit here, we are taught that France and Italy were the most advanced parts of Europe.

>>2617114
>>2617122
Holywar != Crusade

>>2617164

I didn't say it was a crusade you illiterate retard, I said that without the crusades it wouldn't have succeeded. Read a fucking book you literal moron.

>>2617058
>Muslims would have overtaken Europe without crusaders stirring up the middle east and sacking Constantinople

>>2617190

Yes, without the Crusaders taking the fight to them, Muslims would have continued to attempt to conquer Europe. How do I now? Because as soon as the crusades ended, the Muslims began invading Europe again. The crusades gave us a 200 year hiatus, long enough for our new post-Roman states to establish themselves and resist the Muslims when they resumed their invasions under the Turkish Kaliphates.

>>2616467
>Europe in the middle age made very little scientific achievements, compared with say China or the Abbasid caliphate

Literally bullshit, Europe advanced significantly in a number of fields

>>2617143
I think the only medieval nation Americans get educated on is England. So I can see where that is coming from.

>>2617196
Nigger by the time of the first crusade the Muslim world had completely fractured and only really posed a thread to the Byzantines.

>>2616043
It's easy if you've never done it

>>2617164
What?
The Crusades were inter-religious military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Church.

For all intents and purposed the Reconquista was part of the Crusades, more so than the Fourth fucking Crusade.

>>2617182
The muslim world had balkanized long before the Crusades.

>>2617299
>>2617260

Muslim invasions of Europe continued nonetheless, and only ended (briefly) during the crusades. Also Europe was not the only victim, look what happened to West Africa and India if you want examples of Islam spreading thru conquest despite a lack of pan-Islamic unity, and of course the most devastating Muslim atrocity, the mass taking of slaves of the unbelievers, continued despite any central muslim authority at all, since it was religiously motivated.

>>2617280
No.
The crusades were glorified banditry,a method of relieving Jewish and Islamic wealth and knowledge to the previously impoverished west

>>2617320
>you steal someone's property
>they come and ineffectually try to reclaim it
>"Fucin bandits!"

>>2617319
The Crusades did a better job of weakening Eastern Europe then it did fighting Muslims.

Crusading Seljuks in Anatolia and the Levant did fuck all to the Iberian wars against the Andalusian's.

>>2617324
>Reclaim
Islam never conquered western europe, so you argument fails

>>2617324
Catholics have 0 claim to the Levant, no matter how many documents you forge.

>>2617328
The Byzantines were a failed state that would have collapsed anyway, Crusades or not.

>>2617324
>Reclaim it
>not hand it back to the ERE

>>2617338
All their attempts at restoring themselves got fucked over by Crusaders or merchants, sometimes both.

>>2617333

Not thru want of trying. Besides, so what? We're talking about teh crusades in general, which mostly targeted the holy land.

>>2617339
>promise to send manpower to the Byzantines to fight the Muslims together, all land will go to the Byzantine emperor
>the Byzantine forces leave the joint coalition of Crusaders ASAP, leaving the Franks to do all the work
>WTF WHY ARE YOU NOT GIVING THE LAND YOU CONQUERED WE HAD A FUCKING DEAL
The Fourth Crusade didn't happen soon enough.

>>2617335
>>2617339

Reclaim from the muslims and for the Christians, obviously. This is a HOLY war, remember?

>>2617344
Which were populated by jews and muslims, who had more wealth than feudal europe

>>2617358

Which they had stolen from Christians. Hence, "reclaim".

>>2617369
stolen from Romaïkós.

>>2617343
They got conquered one (1) time by Venetians in a 1000 year long history full of revolts and coups and territorial losses, yet you blame the Crusaders, with whom they fought countless battles side by side, for their incompetence in not collapsing.

>>2617380

Stolen most of all from the natives, who in theory were the ones being liberated.

>>2617387
Revolts and coups are Roman tradition, are you against Roman culture?


The Venetians/Crusaders killed all the intellectuals in Constantinople and switched over to Feudalism completely gutting the economy of the Empire.

>>2617353
>Reclaiming it for Christianity
>The same guy who recently ditched the eastern half of Christianity due to a power dispute
sure thing pal

>>2617393
The natives saw the Muslims as liberators when they appeared for the first time

>>2617397
Revolts and Coups are as much Roman culture as starving to death is Russian culture. I love the Romans, best civilisation to grace God's green earth, but they weren't perfect.

also
>byzantine """""""""""""""""""""'intellectuals"""""""""""""""""""""""

>>2616846
you know that the capital at that time was Ravenna, right?

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That something existed and still exists.

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>>2617427
>>byzantine """""""""""""""""""""'intellectuals"""""""""""""""""""""""

>says the Western shit too dumb to use a fork

>>2617320
t.Jew

>>2617335
Muslims have even less, since their place is the Arabian Peninsula, where they should have stayed

>>2617436
>>says the Western shit that's part of a working state
ftfy

>>2616248
>I even tried to explain how medians work, and idiots still refuse to understand.

What do medians (literally the middle number in a sorted list of numbers) have to do with anything here?
It's not modus either, which is by definition the most numerous number from a set (and would therefore mean more people die at 30 than any other age, supporting their claims).
Now, if you mean a (arithmetic) mean, that would make sense as it would calculate the average value.

You shouldn't call people idiots on topics you yourself know little to nothing about even if you get the general idea or else people could easily turn it against you.

>>2617219
such as?

>>2616724
>>2617122

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate#Culture

use wikipedia for the overview, and check the cited sources if you feel it's necessary (it always is).

>>2616508
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate#Culture

You can't deny facts just because it's convenient .

>Hur dur wikipedia is unrliable

Check the sources.

That everyone spoke english. Jeez movies get stuff so wrong.

>>2617552
Architecture, engineering, chemistry, astronomy, scientific theory in general, theology.
Pretty much everything really, middle ages is quite a long time.

That it wasn't a miserable and dark point in European history and represented several steps backward from the height of the Roman Empire.

>>2617589
you are retarded, the middle ages were a regression. There is literally no work in theology ever done by a christian

>>2615977
The "dark ages" meme.

>>2617559
>>2617565
>I know wiipedia is notoriously unreliable and cherry picked, so ignore the terrible and misleading article and focus on the terrible, misleading, and exceedingly cherry picked sources instead

Yeah, no. "Islamic golden age" is a myth, it was nothing but the dying embers of the Classical world before the long dark night of Islamic """"""""""culture""""""""""

>>2617600
The middle ages were a regression?
So between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance we went backwards?

>There is literally no work in theology ever done by a christian
well now this is just blatantly wrong.

>>2617589
I mean, specifically.

I've been looking at this and most of the stuff they did was just copied or heavily influenced by Greek, Roman and Arabic texts.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_science_in_the_Middle_Ages

You must admit that the Renaissance dwarfed the middle-ages period in terms of scientific/cultural achievements?

It's fun to be contrarian, but the period lasting from the collapse of the Western Roman Empire to the renaissance can only be called a regression.

>>2617600
Pretty sure you're trolling, but that's wrong. Anselm and Thomas Aquinas would be two scholars that spring to mid.

>>2617164
Not all holy wars were part of The Crusades, we're basically fighting here over whether people include the Mughal empire when people say The Mongol Empire

>>2617280
The pope sanctioned what became the reconquista in 1063, and gave the same promised to The Crusaders, but that does not make it part of The Crusades

>>2617613
>Makes suspicious claim about Islamic Golden age being a myth
>Quite obviously this claim is biased, since I can already ascertain the ideological stance of the person making it.
>The person provides no evidence from historians to support his claim, because there is very little and most reputable scholars would dismiss it.

>>2617339
They did give some towns back, then some cunt made his own state, when the pope basically meant 'don't become landless vassals here, become landed vassals there'

>>2615984
Is that just a giant piece of cheese, some bread, and some root (ginger?) with a beer?
Comfy supreme

>>2617640

Nigger, you cited WIKIPEDIA. If you don't understand why this makes you a fool, then idk what to tell you.

>>2617333
>Western Europe
>Portugal isn't the definition of Western Europe
>>2617335
>successor of peter
>who was the successor of Jesus
>who was born in the levant
>>2617338
>this meme

>>2617613
You can't just dismiss every single piece of evidence given as "cherry picked", when the amount of evidence is overwhelming.

I fucking hate Islam - i'm the same anon as >>2617640

but that doesn't mean that I will make objectively incorrect statements like "The Islamic Golden Age is a myth".

>>2617649
I said use wikipedia as an OVERVIEW and then use the individual sources cited by the author when necessary.

Don't try and skim-read when you don't know how to.

>>2617397
If they all died then who taught the renaissance to Italians
>>2617559
It wasn't a golden age it was just Pax Islamica, and money going from war into the arts after deciding you're a prophet and conquering the Roman Empire
What about that is there to be proud of

>>2617666

Yeah, go fuck yourself you clown. Citing wiki once might just be a sign that you're stupid, repeating it proves beyond doubt that you're just dishonest.

>>2616379
It looks like shit. The trees provide good contrast, but the building looks like ass

>>2617625
>I mean, specifically.
As in, specific structures or scientific discoveries and inventions? it' a period in time that lasted over a thousand years, you know there were some.

>You must admit that the Renaissance dwarfed the middle-ages period in terms of scientific/cultural achievements?
oh no I'm not denying that at all.

>It's fun to be contrarian, but the period lasting from the collapse of the Western Roman Empire to the renaissance can only be called a regression.
This is where we disagree.

>>2617637
But it does per definition, the Pope gave specific indulgences for all soldiers who toke up arms in the conflict against the infidel, the papal sanction is what makes a Crusade.

>>2617600
>regression
>what is catholic cathedrals more impressive than any Roman monument

>>2616758
>WE WUZ KNIGHTS AND KANGZ AND SHIEEET!!!

>>2617644
>ginger
>not turnip
Fucking Americans why don't you have diverse foods, it stops you using pesticides

>>2617687
>let people define themselves
No this is not 'the war against the tyranny of king george' it is 'the American civil war'
Should we call Persian wars not wars but war in Persian
How pedantic should we be, or just use modern terms with explanations of their use
Do remember the crusaders saw themselves as pilgrims

>>2617711
I'm not letting anyone define anyone, I'm using the literal definition of a Crusader, of a Knight of the Cross: The Crusades where a collection of military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Church in medieval Europe. Any soldier who partakes in such a war is, per definition, a Crusader.
Originally this was against Muslims in the Holy Land, yes, but the campaigns against the Moors in the Spanish Peninsula or the Baltic pagans or even the Cathars in France all belong to this same movement.

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>>2617676
>It wasn't a golden age it was just Pax Islamica

What is a Golden Age then? Must a region be at war to achieve a Golden Age? I would think that a Golden Age would be a period of a peace as well a cultural/scientific advancement.

>What about that is there to be proud of

I generally think it's kind of illogical to be proud of what your ancestors did, but I think that deciding you're a prophet and then being bale to convince a shit tone of people that you are is quite impressive. Going on to conquere the Sassinid Empire, as well as a lot of the Eastern Roman Empire and Levant, is quite impressive as well. All from virtually nothing, mind you.

Muhammad was definitely a cunt, but he must have been awe inspiring.

The things that might make people proud would be cultural and scientific advancement (this is no a comprehensive list).

Philosophy:
>Hayy ibn Yaqdhan
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theologus_Autodidactus
>Floating Man thought experiment (compare to "I think therefore I am")

Mathematics
>Algebra
>Algorithms
>Geometry (Peter J. Lu; Paul J. Steinhardt (2007). "Decagonal and Quasi-crystalline Tilings in Medieval Islamic Architecture")
>Ibn Muʿādh al-Jayyānī

Astronomy
> Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi
>Nasir al-Din al-Tusi - The tusi couple was used by Copernicus, for instance.

General science
>Al-Kindi claimed that Alchemists were full of shit in their attempts to trnsmute base metals in to precious ones - Felix Klein-Frank (2001) Al-Kindi
>Alhazen - optics
>Ibn al-Nafis

I can't really be fucked to carry on writing this, but you get the jist. I'm not trying to assert or imply that we must all be thankful to Muslims today for everything their ancestors did.

What I'm saying is that as lovers of history, we must give credit where credit is due, and that means acknowledging how much influence the achievements made during the Islamic Golden Age have had on the world.

Pic related is just quite interesting, not scientific.

>>2617683
>Yeah, go fuck yourself you clown
I think you need to calm down.

What about saying "look at the sources" for the claims made in the article makes me dishonest. I'm actually saying it is a warning, because I know what wikipedia can be like.

I just looked at a source on the article for the "Islamic Golden Age", one of many:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y0QkhaK4kBUC&pg=PA501&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

it's from the Cambridge university press. Hardly a bullshit source, right?

Go through the article if you want, and pick out sources that are bullshit. you could try to edit them out, you'd be doing a public service.

>>2617654
>>successor of peter
>>who was the successor of Jesus
Peter was never the successor of Jesus.

>>2617807
>>2617775
quality posts

>>2617775
>I can't really be fucked to carry on writing this, but you get the jist.

Hahaha, that's a funny way to spell "this meagre list is literally all I could find". Half those aren't Muslims, for one, and the rest made non-contributions to philosophy and islamic theology.

>>2616758
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

>>2617775
>I would think that a Golden Age would be a period of a peace as well a cultural/scientific advancement.

Then you agree there was no Islamic golden age? Or do you count continuous oppression, enslavement and massacres of the dhimmis to be "peace"?

>>2617969
yes

>>2617807
>still shilling

Get fucked, wikipedophile.

>the middle ages was a time of technological stagnation
Yeah except for the clock, vertical windmills, a vast expansion of water-powered mechanisation, tidal mills, mechanical trip hammers, blast furnaces, stern rudders, weight driven clocks, metal rolling mills, treadle-operated vertical looms, steel span crossbows, artesian drilling, chimneys, treadmill cranes, harbour cranes, floating cranes, mast cranes, oil paints, the hourglass, the compound crank, waterpowered paper mills, the dry compass, the astronomical compass, the nocturnal, the albion and the altitudinal dial. Oh, and the printing press.

>>2617975
>meanwhile, the islamic world invented....
>....
>....
>....

>>2617978
algebra

>>2617969
by that logic there was no Roman peace

>swords

fuck off

>>2617972

Then at least you're honest enough to admit that "islamic golden age" doesn't mean what it seems to mean. But I guess "period of brief minor achievement before classical civilization irrecoverably died forever" doesn't sound as appealing.

>>2617987

Hahaha no, that was the ancient Egyptians. You'll be telling me they invented alcohol next, since we use an Arabic word for it.

People dont seem to get that:

The average medieval peasant in western europe probably worked alot less than us today. They also usually have a few years with plenty of food to eat but occasionally a year of scarcity and famine.

Marriage as an institution really didnt exist for peasants

People lived in single room homes so children and granparents would be living under the same roof as mom and dad humped in the hay covered corner

>>2617955
>"This meagre list is literally all I could find"

No, it's not. You can look up more, but I doubt you will since it would contradict your narrative.

>Half those aren't Muslims
Is that a true statement? Which one's aren't Muslims?

It wouldn't really make much of a difference. Voltaire wasn't a christian but he would still be regarded as someone who made contributions to the advancement of philosophy in Christian Europe.

Can you give me a list of all the people I mentioned who weren't Muslim?

>>2617973
>Wikipedia
>Pedophile
>Wikipedia + pedophile = Wikipedophile

Clever.

>>2617975
>>2617978
Vertical windmills were first built in Persia. Unlucky guys

Ahmad Y Hassan, Donald Routledge Hill (1986). Islamic Technology: An illustrated history, p. 54. Cambridge University Press

Can I have the source for that list?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world#cite_ref-10

As I always say, check the sources on the article. If you don't, then you're using wikipedia wrong. But I'm guessing you got that list from wikipedia.

You can't really say you like history if you willfully deny facts and make things up.

>>2615977
That the Catholic Church set progress and science or whatever else backwards

>>2618217
It did,– in keeping with Augustine’s insistence that only the scriptures contained an authoritative account of the world and its phenomena

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>>2618164
How about this:

>Wikipedia
>Pedophilia
>Wikipedia + pedophilia = Wikipedophilia

This way, you can conserve the "-ia" ending from "Wikipedia".

>swords were used as weapons

I mean let's just logically think about it. Sword has a shorter reach than a spear or a glaive or a halberd if anyone came at me with a sword I would just go away lmao. Swords were in fact fishing tools.

>>2617969
Compare:
>"The romans make a desert and call it peace."

>>2618364
Kek, I know this is a troll post but there's probably someone out there that would actually believe this. Like that one hoax with the flying Persian camels.

>Arabs preserved Greek knowledge

>>2618585
Haha don't you know, Islamic golden age, lol. Muslims built giant mosque in years while stupid Christians spent 1000 years building a church xD

>>2618585
>>2618613
Stop dismissing historical facts. If you want to dismiss something, you need your own evidence.

The great library of Baghad, built by the Abbasid caliph Al-Mansur contained texts written in Greek, Sanskrit, Latin, Syriac, Persian, etc. They were then translated by scholars into Arab and other languages. This occurred in the latter half of the 8th century.

Source:
>Arabic Thought and its Place in History, by De Lacy O'Leary (1922)

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2984776-arabic-thought-and-its-place-in-history

>>2618943
Correction, library was built by Al-Rashid. I'm doing this mostly from memory.

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I remember screen-capping a similar thread on /k/ back when this board didn't exist.

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Looking back on it, these caps are kinda weird.

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Man, was I shit at capping back then.

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And last one completing the text on the final post.

>>2618943
Yes they did that, but only after looting Roman cities, and it was just translations of the epics, which the west already had copied of
Hardly a marvel of mankind

This is all incorrect. They didn't loot for the Classics, they traded for them in several peace treaties with Constantinople, had their Syrian Christians translate copies that were in Aramaic, and didn't care at all for epics and plays but instead demanded lots of technical and philosophical books.

>>2616161
>the dark ages are meme meme meme

Rome was doomed since 59 B.C.E.

The rise of Christianity and the coming of the dark ages were results of Roman decline. In other words, WITH OR WITHOUT Christianity, post-Roman Collapse dark ages would have happened any way.

>>2619439
>But only after looting Roman cities
>Only
Source.

>It was just translations of the epics
Source.

It literally makes no sense for them to only make translations of the epics. It would make less sense for Muslim Arabs to do that, since they would regard the epics as being pagan herecy.

It was Justiniam, the Christian emperor, who shut down the Platonic academy, exiling Simplicius. Scholars agree that the students and academics fled to Sassinid Persia where they would not be subject to religious persecution (Zoroastrian at the time). There works survived into the Muslim period of Persian and Arab history, as we know from lasting copies of translations as well as references to them.

Their works survived, were translated into varying languages and influenced later Arab/Muslim scholars.

>Richard Sorabji, (2005), The Philosophy of the Commentators, 200–600 AD: Psychology (with Ethics and Religion)

>Hardly a marvel of mankind.

Never claimed it was, anon. You made a false claim, and I proved you wrong. The study of past knowledge, and using it to influence future advancements, is the mark of a civilized culture.


I hope you remember this in the future, so that when someone tries to make something up on this board, you call them out for it and prove them wrong.

>>2619524
Is this in reply to >>2619439
You're probably right.

I'm getting increasingly sick of how amateurish posters on this board are. Their agendas and biases are painfully obvious.

>>2617702
being Anti-American is a mental illness

t. sadly not American

>>2619671
>looting Roman cities
U SRS NIQQA
>Muhammad starts all these conquests
>his successors conquer cities
>implying they didn't loot them like everyone did when you conquer a city
They were hardly able to translate the epics when in their quasi-tolerant commune
>pagan heresy
Muhammad flip flopped himself on non-abrhamics, so they probably killed the people, burnt half the books then read the others
>Justinian did more things wrong
He really was a failure
>mark of civilisation
Yeah they were civilised, but the >I>G>A is not the same scale as the renaissance as little was done with those texts

>>2619710
>anti-American is bad
Sorry for wanting a history and unique culture

>>2619713
Are you even trying?

I wasn't denying that Arab armies sacked Roman cities, I was questioning your claim that they only obtained classical texts through sacking cities.

Has it ever occurred to you that books might be passed along through trade? Like everything else?

>Muhammad flip flopped himself on non-abrhamics, so they probably killed the people, burnt half the books then read the others

What the fuck are you talking about? This is just moronic conjecture.

>little was done with those texts

The basis of both European and Islamic philosophy + science comes from the classical/ancient world.

>>2617775

Quoting myself. You can look up more yourself, and I recommend you do, because it's a tragedy that people should know so little about the period.

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>>2617600
>you are retarded, the middle ages were a regression. There is literally no work in theology ever done by a christian

>>2617137
Oxford Jr. History books I read as a kid.

>>2618105
When things got bad, they got real fucking bad tho

>>2619755
Medieval figures don't count since they were Catholic by default.

>>2616105
To honest I don't think there are many people who would consider Spanish Inquisition as that horrifying, more like Inquisition in general as being one but when it comes to specifically Spanish it all about Monty Python meme.

The middle ages certainly wouldn't have been comfy for peasants living in rural areas. Your entire worldview would be shrouded with superstition and religion. In most cases you would never travel any further from home than you could walk in a day and make it back before dark. Then there's the obvious of having to etch out a meager living doing manual labor, worrying about the next roving band of vikings, eastern steppeniggers, or any other warband set on taking your shit, killing you, and raping every woman in your village. While I can agree with much of what is being discussed in this thread there's no denying the middle ages were not a fun time for many.

>>2617625
Specifically?

Cathedrals. Weapons technology and metallurgy to allow for it. Crop rotation. Windmills. Various branches of philosophy, including the natural sciences.

In fact, it could be argued that the Renaissance caused a bit of a regression, since they decided to ignore the last several centuries in favor of jerking off to the classics.

Shit man, play a game of Age of Empires II

>>2619857
Wait, what.

>>2615977
>Spanish inquisition did nothing wrong
Whoever says this must have succed their priest's dick more than two times a week.

Also
>christopher columbus thought the world was flat.

>>2620038
>they decided to ignore the last several centuries in favor of jerking off to the classics.

What advancements did "they" ignore?

>>2619857
kek

>>2619883
You're presuming religion and a lack of travel to be inherently negative things and during the Middle Ages I don't think the majority would be impacted by constant fear of raiding. It would suck, but it would suck because of the food, poor sanitation and disease outbreaks.

>>2617358
>populated by Jews and Muslims

At the time of the First Crusade, the populations of Asia Minor, Syria, and Palestine, though ruled by Muslims, were still overwhelmingly Christian. The “Crusading” campaigns of the Western Christian armies were justi ed at the time as a war liberating the Eastern Christians, whose population, lands, and culture had been devastated by centuries of jihad and dhimmitude.

>>2616819
>>2616838
>>2616844
What do you mean? What's the misconception about leather armor?

I hate the revisionism that surrounds the vikings.
>DEY WUZ GUD BOIS JUS TRYIN TO GET MONEY FO SCHOOL SUPPLIES

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>>2619009
whoa

>>2616467
its boring because it doesnt have le greeks things!!!

>>2616467
>it has christian content, therefore it's boring

>>2620098
Religion isn't inherently negative but a life steeped with ubiquitous superstition is. I find if difficult to argue otherwise when, as a peasant, you'd have to contend with your neighbors blaming the plague on Jews or demanding that corpses be dug up for the purpose of leaving stones in the mouths of the dead. As for lack of travel, that's up to you but I'd sure as shit get sick of seeing the same place and same people my entire life.

>ctrl f witchhunts 1 vaguely related hit:

apparently they weren't very common, and when they were it was orchestrated by locals and not the church. Low death toll

>>2616043
>not being invigorated by the holy spirit as you deny lust and temporal pleasure

That everyone in the Middle Ages was comparably malnourished and diseased. Farming, a specially the driven plough in Europe, actually made yields soar coupled with the global heating period. People just think this because of the famines of the 1300's.

>>2620709
*especially

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>>2616034
There are way too many words in this.

>>2615984
Gotta be honest, that loaf of bread directly on the table is indeed comfy as fuck. I grew up as somewhat of a germophobe. The thought of letting bread be free and without restriction makes me breathe easy. But I question, how did he wipe the table beforehand? Just with simple water? I want to try this for myself at home.

>>2620709
The downside of the population growth that accompanied an increase in food was that towns were often densely packed with people, with no sewers, rain turning dirt streets into mud and diseases spreading more rapidly than it did where people were less densely distributed. With the spread of diseases, more people in towns might die than were born, but the populations of these towns were replenished by migrations from the countryside.

>>2619740
>being this bad at grammar
Fucking colonist, I was saying they got those epics sometime after looting the cities they were first in, not that you could tell fanaticsls to go to the governor's palace and find Virgil The Aenid Book 6 before raping his daughters

>>2617775
A golden age is when people eschew from war, and reap the benefits of trade, the common man's standing increases somewhat, construction is more frequent and the arts are funded

>>2617775
>algebra
>appropriating Indian culture

>>2617752
>knight of the cross
>not one who takes the cross
A large reason why they fail is because FUCKING PEASANTS
>>2617819
>on this rock I lay my church
Peter is the head honcho once Jesus you know ascended into heaven

>>2620862
>liking the man who accepted any religion but Catholicism and Jesus-Avatarism

>>2620335
Ignore these fags. Leather gambesons were a real thing, on their own or combined with mail/plate.

>>2617702
>pesticides are bad

Yeah let's just all eat worms and have regular famines.

>>2617460
How is a median worse than the mean as a measure of center when it comes to medieval lifespans? Genuinely asking because in my experience it rarely is, but I'm undereducated on statistics.

That I wasn't alive

>>2621533
>thinking I dismiss all pesticides
>not realising American monoculture is responsible for so much death and destruction
Also famines aren't caused by one entity

>>2621533

Pesticides are often necessary, but it's still retarded to rely on them when their use could be reduced with more diverse crops.

That Slavs never won a war against germanics.

>>2617090
Shout out to this dude for sourcing his claim. Not enough of you fuckers ever do this shit. I enjoy the extended reading.

>>2620430
ayy

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>>2617328
You don't know what you're talking about. French, Anglo and Geranic played a role in helping the Iberians throw off the Muslim yoke. Look at the Siege of Lisbon for example.

The Reconquista itself WAS A CRUSADE. When crusades were called the pope would basically tell Iberians "you've got Muslims right at your door, fighting them will save your soul just as much as fighting in the Levant would. Deal with the Andalucians first."

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>>2617003

To be fair, all of albion and ireland used to be covered in forest. But the retards cut down the trees and didn't plant more, so by xxx you had massive deforestation. Well before the middle ages, yes.

>>2616196

This. I get literally triggered every time. Fucking statisticians should be hung. "hurr let's include dead infants in the life expectancy." We have a whole separate metric called INFANT MORTALITY for that purpose.

>>2617196

And here we are, 1500 years after the start of this islamic conquest shit, and normies still haven't woken up. They literally say they want to invade us. They even tell us why they kill us. "Allahu akbar (god is great)". 2 + 2 = dayts rayyyyciiiissss.

>>2617319
>Muslim invasions of Europe continued nonetheless
Yes such effective ones, you can really see that they were the biggest threat

>>2617613

>islamic
>culture

Heqet. There are people who believe this?

>32. The Conquest of Persia
>If you ask me what is the most important event in the history of Islam, I shall say without any hesitation: “The Conquest of Persia.” The battle of Nehawand gave the Arabs not only a beautiful country, but also an ancient civilization; or, more properly, a people who could make a new civilisation with the Semitic and Aryan material. Our Muslim civilisation is a product of the cross-fertilisation of the Semitic and the Aryan ideas. It is a child who inherits the softness and refinement of his Aryan mother, and the sterling character of his Semitic father. But for the conquest of Persia, the civilisation of Islam would have been one-sided. The conquest of Persia gave us what the conquest of Greece gave to the Romans.

They literally just jacked Persia and replaced all the zoroastrianism with aloha snackbar. Muslims are thieves. Fuck, Arabic is a language that butchers everything it speaks of. No vowels, not even a "p" sound. Parsi got butchered into "Farsi." It's not "Fars" province, it is PARS. Pars as in Persia. Fucking dumbshit arabs should get the camel cock out of their mouths and maybe they could pronounce a damned "p". What faggots.

And I love that our modern """education""" (read: brainwashing campaign of the CIA disinfo plot) tells us hurrr crusades were baaaad but fails to mention the crusades were a reaction to the islamic invasion prior. Because that doesn't fit their narrative. I may not like Christians, but I like them a hell of a lot better than I do Muslims. Christians haven't murdered anyone in 300 years. Meanwhile the muslims are, to this day, genociding arab and neareastern christians and atheists and still oppress the remaining zoroastrians. Needless to say of how they're literally raping europe.

>>2622591

Yes the battle of Lepanto and the battle of Vienna were such forgone conclusions, really idk why anyone was ever worried.

As I said, the crusades gave Europe the time to recover from the Völkerwanderung that had left the continent weak and open to Muslim attacks. It's all well and good to say "well, the muslims never conquered us!" no shit they didn't, and the crusades are largely why.

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>>2615977
That the "early Middle Ages" actually existed.

>>2616467
>Oh my, I'm being pierced ¯\_(ツ)_/¯