Arnhem

>>2612865
>XXX corps is best corps
t. Monty

>>2613059
>have thirty corps
>only use one to attack
Why did he do this?

>>2613151
This is what maked my mad

Why not usingthe unsed numbers

Monty was just a bad leader.

>>2612865
Compared to WW1, the Americans really showed their worth. I could even argue that the Americans did more heroics than the British.

>>2613172
For the same reason the attack failed in the first place. The road to Arnhem was very muddy and narrow do to the weather. XXX corps had a hard enough time navigating up the road due to its constricting nature as it was, adding more units would've just further bogged them down. The Germans were able to hold off the entire corps with just a few antitank guns and ambushes, and the advance was delayed heavily. By the time they reach their objectives the Germans of mobilized full units to counterattack.

When XXX Corps finally reached Arnhem they were combat ineffective and were pulled off the front to reorganize.

>>2614106
Well they were barely in WWI, which I don't mean to diminish them in any way.
But what would you say were their great heroic moments?

>dropping the 1st Airborne like 12km from their objective

What was Monty thinking?

>>2614118
Dropping headfirst into an elite panzergrenadier division with bazookas and grenades as your best Tiger killer and surviving.

The Brits performed extremely well but were too far away for XXX Corps to reach them in time, the American paratroopers were much more lucky in that regard, but they also faced stiffer initial resistance due to bad drop sites. The 1st faced less initial resistance but had to fight their way into Arnhem instead of being dropped into their objective directly like the Americans were.

But dropping directly into heavy armor isn't a good thing.

>>2614118
In WW2? I would have to say either the American's role on Omaha Beach, or their defense of Bagstone during the Bulge. It could also be argued that Hell's Highway really showed the Grit of the Americans. I guess the American paratroopers in general were tough guys.

>>2614122

Maybe it was victory disease,normandy worked out pretty well,so they thought there wasnt much fight left in the jerries.

>>2614169
Monty just hated the Americans

How much do you think we exaggerate the german capabilities to make the allied troops seem more heroic?
Besides Panzer and Luftwaffe aces i havent really heared of similar heroic stories about the axis infantry.

>>2614184
There was that time that 6 German soldiers captured all of Belgrade and sped the fall of Yugoslavia up, or that one time where German commandos glided into a castle to save Mussolini. There was also the story of how like 300 Paratroopers glided onto the roof of a Belgium "Impenetrable" bunker and blew it up, clearing the way for the bypassing of the Maginot line.

>>2614184
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission-type_tactics

Yes, they fought for a shit cause, but the German grunt was every bit as brave and talented as the historians and Wehraboos claim. Every soldier was expected to think two levels of command position above their rank in case they had to assume command of the mission. It was not uncommon for Majors to be in control of Battalions and still fight effectively.

And it wasn't just the Grunts who had gotten their hands dirty. 136 Generals were killed in direct combat. In one insistance Hass von Manteuffel had his command center raided by Soviet assault troops. wounded, he shot one of the attackers dead, and stabbed a second one to death with a bayonet.

File: 1491275674621.webm (3MB, 616x480px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 616x480px

>>2614184

And to add, their stories aren't told because they lost the war and fought at the behest of a diabolical cause. There is literally no way to tell the story of the German soldier with the words "Hated Hitler and Nazis" "Saved Jews" or "Executed for treason." Even the Afrika Korps is getting lambasted now by German and Israeli historians.

File: bf9c00bdf54e2536af53dc03600d29a2.jpg (161KB, 792x500px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 792x500px

>>2614536

Without the phrase*

>>2612865
Dont know what youre talking about. This was a success(according to monty) and we got rid of some of pur worst types. How is that not a victory?

>>2614196
> that one time where German commandos glided into a castle to save Mussolini

Jesus fuck that would make such a great scene in a movie and it's literally never going to happen because the allies won

File: 1491347571792.jpg (16KB, 450x450px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 450x450px

>>2614129
>"they were barely in WWI"
>continues to talk about ww2

>>2612865
Monty was a shit commander.

>>2614751

I heared the italians pretty much let that happen,there wasnt even a shot fired on both sides i heared.

it was stupid
extremely stupid

first, dropping paras on to an armored division
second, not calling it a day the moment it was clear the bridges are too far

>>2612865
He wanted glory for the British regardless of the cost in lives.

>>2616263
Reminds me of his operations in North Africa.

>>2614514
The average german private even had balistic training and they could read maps (this sounds stupid but back then reading maps was an officers job)

File: 1421417284537.png (89KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 500x500px

Yes very brave of those ten bodybuilders to beat up the 20yo something lanklet all at the same time

I bet it took a lot of courage for them to do this

>>2614094
ur gay

>>2617006
What?

>>2614536
This

>>2612865
He didn't have a proper grasp of operational planning is all.

>>2619267
Yes he did

File: CW-025-HighWaterMark gettysburg mort kunstler.jpg (531KB, 2000x1050px) Image search: [Google]

531KB, 2000x1050px

>>2612865
>And would /his/ agree that their stand in Arnhem was one of the bravest of any Western Allied force in WWII?

Absolutely, their courage and willingness to stand fast under a withering barrage of fire is only rivaled by Armistead's brigade at Gettysburg.

Terrible tragedy that befell them. All that sacrifice for nothing. Must've been emotionally crushing to be a survivor of 1st Airborne and know that your failure would spell the deaths of millions more.

>>2623624
If only the British commanders of XXX Corps had been more aggressive.

File: Forest combat.png (476KB, 488x1532px) Image search: [Google]

476KB, 488x1532px

If you're going to land a shitload of men in a gamble of an offensive, do your hmework first and figure out who i the Germans are going to have waiting for you. And you better pray you're not dropping them on men like Walter Model and Wilhelm Bittrrich, two men who spent much of the war in the east fighting off surprise Soviet offensives and gaining the reputation of rapid defense responses. Model was defense Rommel, able to make shit situations work out for his benefit. He and Bittrich inspired a demoralized and crippled army unit fleeing from France back into an organized fighting force.

But not to worry, British friends. The Americans did Hurtgen forest, where they literally marched several divisions into a German forest and expected to get through that no problem, only
to get a greeting reception by Model again coincidentally.

>>2612865
Because Market Garden was Monty's autistic screeching in response to SHAEFs plan to advance along a broad front. He literally had an autistic screech fit in front of Eisenhower because Ike wouldn't let him have his own offensive and Ike let him have it to shut him up. He then proceeded to completely ignore every intelligence briefing and logistical changes that needed to be met. Britain should've hung Monty for the sheer amount of Allied deaths from the willful ignorance that fuck committed in the Netherlands.

>>2623882
Why is a thread about Arnhem in your mind to bring up another unrelated battle to "sooth" feelings?

File: Bittrich.jpg (39KB, 479x722px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 479x722px

"In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." -Bittrich after accepting the surrender of the last British hold outs in Arnhem

"Other visits to the front showed me that efforts were being made on the Western Front to arrive at understandings with the enemy on special problems. At Arnhem, I found General Wilhelm Bittrich of the Waffen-SS in a state of fury. The day before, his Second Tank Corps had virtually wiped out a British airborne division, but he was in mood to celebrate this. During the fighting the general had made an arrangement permitting the enemy to run a field hospital situated behind the German lines. But Party functionaries had taken it upon themselves to kill British and American pilots, and Bittrich was now cast in the role of a liar. His violent denunciation of the party was all the more striking since it came from an SS general.". - Albert Speer

>>2623925
>>2623624

Christ I knew they fought hard but not that hard..


>Part members killing pilots

What a surprise!

F

>>2623917

Because Burgers tend to flap this failed offensive as indicative of standard British command failure. Sometimes a reminder is in order.

>>2623935
>of standard British command failure
As standard Monty command failure, not Britain as a whole.

File: German burial plot for Englishman.jpg (179KB, 749x784px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 749x784px

>Unknown English soldier

File: arnhem3.jpg (65KB, 800x584px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 800x584px

The German forces the Allied taskforce was almost a sitcom in itself. The Germans were in the middle of reorganizing Army Group B when the English and Americans dropped out of the sky. Makeshift units were formed to meet them.

Picture related: Waffen-SS officer (far left) with his Heer XO (right) instructing a Luftwaffe grunt (centre) on rudimentary infantry training before deployment

File: mfw.gif (573KB, 500x273px) Image search: [Google]

573KB, 500x273px

>>2623925

>"In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard."

>"He who has not fought the Germans does not know war". - British Military Aphorism

>>2614184

"It is with personal pride that I regard this German victory, because it was achieved not by regular units, but by railway workers, Arbeitsdienst (German Labour workers) and Luftwaffe personnel as well, who had never been trained for infantry work and were actually unsuitable for house-to-house fighting." - Walter Harzer, commander of the 9th SS Panzer Division 'Hohenstaufen'

File: gettysburg day 1.gif (2MB, 320x256px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x256px

>>2623862

Much as was the case with General Ewell, XXX Corps' leadership proved tragically inadequate to the task at hand.

God knows how many might've had their deaths prevented had the Allies won the race to Arnhem or the Confederates won the race up Cemetery Ridge.

>>2623935
>projecting feelings of inadequacy because of one defeat onto your allies
The sheer butthurt...

File: Battle of Arnhem.jpg (169KB, 944x623px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 944x623px

Bumping

Also, thread themes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sSF5JS_HA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLiRgNFvfGw

>>2616263
was Monty a vatnik?

>>2626495
Pretty much

>>2612865
Monty hated Polish 1st Independent Parachute Brigade the most.
He ordered to drop them furthest into German positions, Poles landed right on German guns. After that they were given the task to cover the British retreat all the way back. Montgomery blamed the failure of the operation on Poles, despite the were dropped too late to change anything

>>2612865
Monty didn't hate them, he was just incompetent.

>>2626523
General Browning tried to pin the whole British defeat on them too.

>>2612865
Remember how Monty and Browning were so buttmad that after the operation they ruined Gene Hackman's life who was one of the few who were actually skeptical about the operation but did his bit dutifuly regardless?