Was it salvageable at any point?

1917 at a stretch

>>2603255
It was salvaged into Russian federation.

>>2603255
Post-1917
Pre-30s

>>2603255
Without Brezhnev, it probably would have lingered on for a while longer.

If they had continued with the NEP, they would have been prosperous by now.

all power to the soviets

>>2603255
It wasn't real communism, so obviously, no. But socialism is the future anyway, when all the jobs disappear everyone will be a socialist.

>>2603255
The fact that communism was attempted through revolution made the union doomed from the very beginning. Such an ideology, if at all possible, would have to be achieved naturally through the innate progression of humanity. It would also have to be a globalist movement beforehand. So no, it was not salvageable. Like most things in history, it was not a self-sustaining system.

>>2604017
kill yourself

>>2603255
Lenin shouldn't have fucked shit up but the socialists should have just stopped the war

>>2604059
What are you smoking? Revolution is how these huge social changes happen, there's always a risk. It's basically rolling the dice again because you think the odds have changed.

>>2604066
He's right you know

>>2604083
it wasn't real communism, but real communism is impossible. The only way to set up a commune is by force, and you need a state to do that. Automation is a long ways away.

>>2603263
Although you're probably joking, you're actually right

>>2604145
>real communism is impossible

Maybe with that attitude it is

>>2604017
>when all the jobs disappear
>people will be happy living a meaningless existence

>>2604204
people will be happy doing what ever they want when we leave behind the notions that you have to earn a prove your value in the world.

>>2604378
What if I want to make some money comrade

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>>2604685
Then you'll have to be sent to a re-education camp tovarisch.

things were pretty good 1956-1975ish

>>2604017

Low-effort bait but looks like it worked anyway.

>>2603255

Define "salvageable". It could have easily survived to the present day, even with a POD as late as 1991, but that's different from the Cold War continuing to the present day.

(obviously there's geopolitical tension now between the West and Russia, but that's less ideological and modern Russia is much weaker than the Eastern Bloc)

>>2603263
KEK no

>>2608352
and in my defense, read this speech and try to take a single word of it seriously

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/oct/17.htm

the Soviet Union was fucked from the beginning. Lenin NEVER knew how to lead a nation or govern a people, let alone organize an economic structure. What a shitty joke of an ideology.

>>2603255
>revolution succeeded
>crushed fascism almost single-handedly
>resisted capitalist tyrannies for four more decades

It did everything it could. But nothing can stand against greed forever.

>>2608378
this is an excerpt from a quiz that I took on this speech in a history class I took. I got an A.

9. Based on both the ‘hard’ (economic) and ‘soft’ (cultural, educational) aspects of NEP, how well do you think it worked? How long do you think it could have lasted?

I think that the NEP was a success, but not for the reasons that Lenin and the bolsheviks did. The NEP is evidence enough that free trade leads directly to overall prosperity and that in practice communism never will lead to the same thing. It is funny to me to see how delusional so many people, Lenin himself, were even in the face of this. Lenin admits to knowing that capitalism is what makes an economy successful, stating,

“You will have capitalists beside you, including foreign capitalists, concessionaires and leaseholders. They will squeeze profits out of you amounting to hundreds per cent; they will enrich themselves, operating alongside of you. Let them. Meanwhile you will learn from them the business of running the economy, and only when you do that will you be able to build up a communist republic.”

However obvious this evidence is, he still believes that they can take the practical applications of capitalism and apply them to the ideals of communism. In fact, he states that it is necessary for the success of communism. He makes the fundamental mistake of trying to solve problems by looking at evidence through a foundational worldview rather than building his worldview around what he sees. I think that if people even half as rational as Lenin stayed in power that the NEP would further blossom and turn people away from the idea that the end goal was still to be total state run socialism. Yes it was always meant to be transitional, but if people in charge were taking each step carefully to enhance prosperity they would see that the implementation of capitalistic structures is not a way to transition into further socialism but a step towards free markets and exchange.

>You must remember that our Soviet land is impoverished after many years of trial and suffering, and has no socialist France or socialist England as neighbours which could help us with their highly developed technology and their highly developed industry
this was Lenins actual excuse for defending why post-revolution Russia was not prosperous. Because he believed that the industrialized west became that way through magic and not free trade.

>>2603255
much of it was saved in fact

>>2606244
That's literally the time in which it stagnated and died though. The 'geriatocracy' and all that.

>>2608436
You basically said "maybe they should have capitalism so that they can transit to socialism but transit to more capitalism!" which is like an opinion. Literally no arguments were made other than opinions

>>2608517
I don't want an idiot to read your short post and assume its correct and skip over my longer post
>literally no argument
here is the argument on a basic level

Q. Was the NEP a success?
A. Yes, because introducing a capitalistic structure to production increased economic prosperity. It was a successful application which stopped Russia from further spiraling into depression and Famine.

Q. How long would it have lasted?
A. It could have lasted indefinitely, because pulling the NEP back would have disastrous economic results. The approach Lenin took to the NEP was based on clearly observing its positive effects.

Argument: If Lenin continued to observe the positive effects of prosperity that capitalistic means of production had, they would continue to grow in that way towards a more capitalistic society. Continuing to see the improvements made with the NEP would make it difficult to transfer to full communism.

>>2608556
Finally some actual explanation of what the NEP did to Russia that justifies its success and continued usage. Your previous post was centered around insulting Lenin's intelligence for not having the same opinions or outlook as you.

Hell even in this post your argument kinda breaks down coz Lenin did not want to transit to a more capitalistic society. Your argument presupposes that a capitalistic society is desirable which goes against what Lenin wanted. You are basically arguing past Lenin. A better argument would have been emasuring the effectiveness of NEP in helping Lenin get what he wanted

[spoiler]Not that I completely disagree with you as Russia was barely even ready for capitalism, let alone socialism and communism. It is just that your argument is less of an objective assessment and more of a chance to preach your anti-communist views [/spoiler]

>>2603255
>NEP is continued and the SU transforms into some kind of weird state capitalist authoritarian country that somehiow manages the defeat of the wehrmacht

>after stalins death the military is reduced and and very slowly more and more capitalist elements are introduced

Both of this are space bats insane.

A more down to earth scenario:

>Brezhnev dies earlier because he munches to many pills/his health detoriates much quicker and he isn't viable to lead the state/ his resignation is accepted

>the gerontocrats die earlier/resign/whatever

>instead of Ghorbachev a more ruthless and cunning person comes to power earlier

>only economic reforms

>arms race is ended

>the western satellites are abandoned to appease the west#

>basically a new china emerges with state capitalism

>>2608392
>>revolution succeeded
>>crushed fascism almost single-handedly
>>resisted capitalist tyrannies for four more decades
How can one man be so wrong?

>>2608352
>HEY GUISE LET'S TOPPLE THE REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENT WITH OUR REVOLUTIONARY GOVERMENT LMAO

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>>2608392
>M-MUH GREED

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>>2603255
Replace Stalin with Trotsky

>>2610399
OP said salvageable, not collapsed by 1925.

>>2610442
>World gommizm by 1925.
FTFY

>>2604204
>only derive meaning from repetitive 40hr work weeks
Honestly can't wait until all of you kill yourselves.

i wonder if the ussr could have ever turned into a communist in name only state like china, or if the cold war and the dominion over so many other states prevented that

>>2610540
satellite states got uppity, Afghanistan tanked the economy, and the Chernobyl disaster cost billions

only way the SU could have survived was if a lot of people died, and the state gained their assets

> One of the most militaristic societies ever but always prioritized defense in doctrine
> Autistic obsession with space and public transportation
> A time with no terrorism
> No Putin
> No modern "art"
> Better cartoons than Japan
> No mass immigration and forced diversity for core white cities
> Let Germany keep existing so it could one day try to ruin Europe again
> And the last power to seriously try modernizing the muslim mindset

WTF pol loves CCCP now!

It was always salvageable at any point right until the point sabot shells struck the white house. If democracy, true democracy, has any value or inherent superiority to it, then the only vote this country ever took should have been obeyed. West Ukraine, Baltics, Poland, rest of the Pact out... but whats left should not have been dissolved.

If they could have seen the horror of the 90's to come, preserving the union would have more support than Reagan ever had.

>>2603255
it never had access to any trade route worth a shit so no.

>>2604145
What the fuck are you smoking? Automation is taking jobs in literally every country on planet Earth, in every single field.

If anything, it's infinitely more possible now than they could have possibly dreamed in the early 1900s.

>>2610592
So you're saying they ran out of kulaks to gulag?

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yeah but he died

>>2604017

Is it really socialism if you don't need society to live?

>>2604685
then make something people will pay for, but you're much too NEET to ever do something like that.

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>>2603255
http://store.steampowered.com/app/599750

Check for yourself if you can handle it better.

>>2610346
Not an argument

>>2611409
central planning is more socialism than workers co-ops

>>2611409
kill yourself

As late as 1991 with a stretch(no coup etc.)
More reasonable before chernobyl, that's what made Gorby's goals become unrealistic and too idealist
But what really needs to happen is the soviet union getting the loans at the G8, calling the bluff of the anti-communists there who demanded that the soviet union would go through shock theraphy, which was a terrible idea and they knew that.
It's not that difficult to save the USSR it is speculated that it could have kept going for decades more with their planned economy before that would become too unfeasible on its own but that's just purely economically. Realistically it was either reform or war back then.
A more interesting question would be whether the eastern block could have survived.