Is rape worse than murder? I can think of several situations

>situation in which rape is justified.

When she's asking for it

>>2597341
how do you like babies are made.

>>2597341
Knowing full well this is a bait thread, and not even good bait, there is no conceivable scenario where rape is worse than murder.

>>2597356
If rape can never be justified, and murder can, then there are conceivable scenarios where rape is worse than murder (every case).

What was the point of your post?

>>2597363
Simple. Murder is the ending of a human life. Rape is not.

certainly soldiers that are found to have raped should be killed

>>2597341
If murder is justified than it's not murder it's just killing. Whole of your position is bate based on world play.

>>2597371
Ok, but that doesn't mean it is never justified.

What was the point of your post?

>>2597375
>Whole of your position is bate based on world play.
Actually yours is.
>I didn't murder him, I killed him!

>>2597377
Murder is never justified. Self defense can be justified.
You're not baiting anyone you know.

>>2597373
Court martialled, DD, and imprisoned sure but killing them is a bit much.

>>2597388
What about war? Abortion? Euthanasia? Capital punishment? Terrorism? et cetera

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If rape is worse than death, why isn't there a rape penalty?

>>2597385
There is a clear definition of murder which entails a moral judgment. Not all killing is murder. Some killings are justified and even welcomed like in a war. Others forms of killing can be unlawful and still not considered murder. So murder will always be worse than rape while killing won't be.
t. Lawyer

>A murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought. This state of mind may, depending upon the jurisdiction, distinguish murder from other forms of unlawful homicide, such as manslaughter. Manslaughter is a killing committed in the absence of malice, brought about by reasonable provocation, or diminished capacity. Involuntary manslaughter, where it is recognized, is a killing that lacks all but the most attenuated guilty intent (mens rea), recklessness.

>>2597363
That is different. You murder someone to stop them murdering others whereas raping a rapist does not accomplish anything.

>>2597401
Those have been looked at in courts over centuries and are decided on a case by casr basis of the events. If a murder is good to have occurred the person will be punished accordingly. If it is not murder by a lesser form of killing in the eyes of the court the person will be punished accordingly.

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>>2597407
>Is nonconsensual sexual intercourse worse than killing?

>I can think of several situations in which killing may be justified, but I can't think of any situation in which nonconsensual sexual intercourse is justified.

Does that satisfy your pointless wordplay?

>>2597422
>when I do it it isn't murder
Legal fictions.

>>2597402
You do realize that rape already happens frequently in prisons, right? There's your rape penalty.

>>2597341
That's a loaded as fuck way to phrase the dilemma.

When we think of a killing as being justifiable, we no longer call it murder. Murder specifically means unjustifiable killing of an innocent, usually in cold-blood and with premeditation. Don't conflate killing in war or self-defense with murder. Even the law distinguishes this with charges of manslaughter and even then in degrees.

>>2597427
I hope you realize that everyone responding to you sees through your terrible attempt at trolling. Why bother going on.

Rape is wrong but is it really such a big deal?

Women claim it is traumatic but nowadays they willingly have sex with alpha males, black men and refugees after only just meeting them and have dozens of abortions. Physically it is the equivalent of a wet willy. Rape is a petty crime and we should not be wasting police resources on it, we will be able to lower taxes.

>>2597444
OP you know we can tell it's you when the ID counter hasn't gone up. This is really pathetic.

>>2597439
>my shitty lawschool taught me about mens rea and that it's not malicious if the state does it

>>2597420
That is his point I believe...

>>2597449
Wrong poster dipshit.

>>2597341
>OMG SOMEONE TOUCHED MY GENITAL WITHOUT PERMISSION AND COMPLETELY RUINED ME AS A PERSON

vs.

>dead

>>2597437
You're literally just saying that there are situations in which murder may be justified. The words you are using are just euphemisms for murder.

>>2597435
Doesn't count. Not an official penalty.

>>2597450
that is not the point I am making

there is the criminal

then there is police

the criminal rapes/murders because they are evil

the only reason the police do murders is to stop murder

there is a difference between practical murder and evil murder, OP does not distinguish between the 2 types

>>2597472
Is there practical rape and evil rape?

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>>2597341
>but I can't think of any situation in which rape is justified.

What about traditionalistic ritual rape of virgins, you degenerate sjw cuck?

>>2597475

obiovusly not, however, people must be killed in certain circumstances to avert their negative actions ie, they are threatening people with a weapon

>>2597341
well, you answered your own question

>>2597465
No, I am saying murder is a legal term used to describe an intentional, unjustified killing. Manslaughter is a step down from that and usually accounts for intention (e.g. drunk driving).

There are degrees of killing that merit a range of punishments from life imprisonment to none at all.

Rape does not fit the same criteria. There are no degrees of rape (anything that does not include penetration is sexual assault, not rape). There are no circusmstances where one can rape in self-defence or the protection of others. There are no circumstances where one can rape accidentally.

The two are completely different and you're an autist for trying to conflate them either legally or morally.

>>2597475
There is no practical rape, but it doesn't matter because practical murder is not the same as evil murder and so isn't part of the comparison.

All you need to know is all evil rape is evil and all evil murder is very evil therefore (evil) murder is evil.

Also some would argue the definition of murder is evil killing but not practical killing.

>>2597528
This. Murder is a specific kind of killing, there is no such thing as e.g. "murder in self-defense." It's just not what the word means.

>>2597341
Yes anon forced sex is worse than being killed, honestly women are so fucking stupid.

>le consent
What a fucking shitty meme. Hopefully liberals will get rid of it when the inevitable pedo rights movement becomes a thing

>>2597472
>police do murders
Police don't murder. They kill when necessary (in theory). OP does not distinguish between murder and killing. Murder is worse than rape. Killing is not necessarily worse than rape because it may be justified.

istrupo eh gostosow

>>2597444
This. If rape is so important then let the free market create a rape revenge para-military group paid by the rapees money then, just like it would happen if I could pay people to kill the killers of a friend or family member.

ITT: men who have never been raped. You guys are pieces of shit. Even I as a woman understand men are just as much victims of it.

>>2597605
Police murder all the time. They may claim justification but that is not always and usually not true at all when evidence shows. Doesn't matter whatever fancy name they spin.

>>2598036
What part of "in theory" didn't you get?

>>2597363
You can (not always, but can) come back from rape. But once you're dead, that's it. No recovery.

>>2597363
>If rape can never be justified...
false premise

>Merge history board with humanities board
>Shit like this happens

This April Fools Joke has gone too far

>>2598102
I'm actually defending male victims here but whatever you say.

>>2598132
Male rape pushes different psychological buttons than female rape does for the respective victims. The dominant themes of male rape are humiliation and loss of status, the dominant themes of female rape on the other hand are depersonalization and body horror. So in my opinion I can see how female rape is more innately traumatizing than male rape.

One caveat though is the rise of AIDS adds a dimension of body horror to male rape as well, but it's far too new a phenomenon in my opinion to have truly sunk into the male subconscious at this point.

>>2597528
I feel like maybe there sort of are degrees of rape or that you could rape accidentally.
Like a light tickling versus assfucking for degrees.
or if you genuinely thought she was into it but she wasn't, for accident.

>>2597341
Useful in establishing dominance and submission.

>>2597444
That's like saying sweatshop workers willingly work for practical slave-tier wages, so literal slavery isn't a big deal.

Human agency and freedom of choice is a very big deal. Perhaps one of the biggest deals.

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>>2597363

>the justifiable nature of a crime is the sole factor determining how bad it is

What kind of shit logic is this? Murder is worse in terms of harm inflicted on another person and that's typically the metric which is used to define the gravity of any particular crime. It's why you might get let off with a warning for slapping someone but they cart you off to gaol or end your life if you're caught murdering another human being. The degree of harm is the difference between larceny vs. grand larceny, vandalism vs. arson and so on. You're completely off.

And even if you did accept the premise that the intent behind the crime (justification) is the sole determinant of the seriousness of a crime, there are cases in which rape is justified by the perpetrator. There was a case just recently where a daughter raped his lesbian daughter because he was trying to help her in his mind by showing her how pleasurable sex was with men in the hopes of turning her straight. One would imagine punitive rape of one degree or another could be justified by the perpetrator (say for example a man was raped by a woman for years and decides to brutally rape her back for revenge).
>but I'm not talking about individual justifications for rape, I'm talking about society on the whole finding a justification for the crime, perhaps through a court

Murder is, by definition, wrong in all cases and UNJUSTIFIED as defined by society, or else it would not be murder but perhaps killing in self-defense or perhaps manslaughter. If you are brought up on charges of murder, it is because you, in a premeditated, usually malicious manner, killed another human being. That is, in all cases, unjustified or at least not justified enough to get you off the hook, and you will be sent to prison or executed.

>>2598402
So why isn't my agency and free choice to not foot the bill for sluts also respected?

women are completely fine with getting themselves lathered in cum at a house party but all of a sudden it becomes "rape" when they discover one of the dozen guys jizzing on them wasn't on the football team, then they expect us to believe they are oppressed victims and divert limited welfare away from orphans, homeless and cancer patients to cater to them and their life choices

no, clearly murder is much worse than "rape"

>in which murder may be justified
It is worth noting that murder is defined as an unjustifiable homicide. Giving a criminal the death penalty isn't necessarily murder.

>>2597341
What if your peepee is hard and you want it to go away?

>>2599836
buy an onahole and help hiroshimoot

>>2599778
What about man-on-man rape? That's some psyche damaging shit. Men are supposed to be strong; if you can be overpowered in that way, are you even a man anymore? Maybe you let it happen, you didn't fight hard enough, maybe you're a faggot.

>>2599856
then the violence used is a crime and a basis for appropriate punishment

>>2599900
What if his buddy had a gun to your head and they didn't get particularly violent with you? Or would you be the hero who dies with a penis inside of you?
Are you denying force is ever used to rape women?

>>2599940
pulling a gun on someone for unjust reasons is a crime

>force used to rape women
in that case the force itself is most of the crime

A better example would be that scene in kill bill where a comatose Uma Thurman is raped, even in this case though they are taking advantage of a weak vulnerable person in hospital and I am pretty sure there are laws against that

>>2599962
Fair enough. But when it's a woman up against a man, it's not a fair fight. To a man, women punches are like butterfly kisses, but to women, man punches are like bowling balls.

>>2597375
/thread

>>2597469
Does it make you feel better that Tyrone's cock is state-provided?

>>2599962
What if I just straight got you in a full nelson and fucked you in the ass?

Like, I don't punch you, I don't pull a gun on you, the only force is from me holding back your arms and thrusting my penis.

How would you like such a crime to be punished?

>>2597341
Is rape on men justified?

>>2597363
>all this spooks

also:
shitting on someone's face also isn't justified in any case, but is it worse than murder

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Wow all these fucking autists arguing about the definition of 'murder' ("well acktshully") and assuming OP is talking about 'crime' (an invention of the state of the same kind as jaywalking).

If you can't understand the plain meaning of the OP text just replace the word 'murder' with 'homicide' in OPs post. i.e.

>Is rape worse than homicide?

>I can think of several situations in which homicide may be justified, but I can't think of any situation in which rape is justified.

And answer that.

I've never understood why rape would be worse than murder. Psychologically more damaging, maybe, but only because getting murdered means that the victim no longer has a psyche to damage.

I honestly believe rape should be legal between a boyfriend and girlfriend along with husband and wife.

I mean seriously if your wife denies you sex it means she doesnt really want to be your cum dump for eternity which is the point of marriage.
>>2600125
Anal rape is a form of torture honestly so it should be a crime while vaginal rape shouldnt if it is done on reproductively ready humans.

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Is this the thread where we just argue semantics?

>>2597341
I can't think of a situation where shitting in someone's chimney may be justified yet that doesn't make it worse than murder.

Clearly you're an idiot.

>>2597375
this

Murder is the crime of killing another person. If the killing is justified, it's not a crime and can't be murder.

Based on this, murder is always worse than rape, but killing may not be.

>>2600513
Vaginas don't self-lubricate without foreplay.

If you're going to whine about getting fucked with no lube, you shouldn't be surprised when skirts do too.

>>2600671
Shitting in someone's chimney isn't an act done to a person, it's an act against done to some bricks bricks.

>>2600758
It is a property crime for which there is no equivalent in a non-criminal context.

OP makes the point that murder (i.e. killing someone) may be okay under certain circumstances and I brought a counter-example of a completely trivial crime that may not be okay because there is no non-criminal application.

You might as well say that tax evasion or masturbating in public is worse than murder under the same premise - which is simply faulty, because the severity of the crime does not depend on whether the action (or something that involves the action) is okay under different circumstances.

>>2600772
>crime

There's that word again.

>>2600773
What are we talking about if not crime? Are rape and murder not criminal acts?

>>2597341
Justified murder is just self-defence. Justified rape is just sex.

>>2600778
They would be morally wrong even if they weren't crimes e.g. in a state of anarchy. Law is not morality.

>>2600793
There is no such thing as absolute morality and I'm fairly certain most people would object to shitting down their chimney so you'd be doing them wrong.

>>2600798
So you can judge the severity of the acts if someone legislates against them, but you can't judge the severity of those same acts in the absence of legislation on them? You're full of shit and using tautological wordplay to evade the question. How could they even be legislated against if they couldn't be judged on their severity.

>>2600830
>So you can judge the severity of the acts if someone legislates against them, but you can't judge the severity of those same acts in the absence of legislation on them?
I told you that there is no absolute morality. You can judge severity as much as you want, but you can't claim to do it based on some global scale that is the same for everyone else.

All judgement of severity is nothing but convention, there is nothing absolute at play here.

This is all besides the point however. The point remains that the fact that killing someone may at times be judged okay by some (e.g. in self-defence) does not make it the less severe 'act' in comparison with something that has less practical usage.

You might think otherwise, but as I told you already: all judgement is based on convention and most people would disagree with you because murder has throughout history always been judged as the worse crime than rape.

>>2600860
>morality isn't absolute
>by the way you're not allowed to even discuss morality because morality is the absolute static judgment of convention that magically pre-exists all discussion of itself and cannot change ever, as I already explained

Yep I'm getting trolled.

>>2599656
Are you a burger? Your tax dollars don't pay for abortion, if that's what you're referring to.

>>2600898
Where did I say you're not allowed to discuss morality? The fact that I told you that it's a matter of convention should tell you the complete opposite.

The point is that your metric of severity ("an act is worse than another if there is no application for it which we would not judge morally wrong") does not work out as there are acts that regarded wrong and which have no otherwise application which are however never going to be considered worse than murder. Examples given were shitting down someone's chimney, tax evasion or public masturbation.

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>>2597371
Ending a life prematurely doesn't even come close to ruining it entirely. Also, rape can never be justified, there is no manslaughter, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree charges for rape because, at the end of the day, it is all the same hurtful crime.

>>2597483
That's just fucked up proto-human shit

>>2597469
Yet it's arguably the largest reason many men would rather not go to prison. It's like the older punishment of exile - yeah, you're not technically being murdered by the state, but there's a good chance you'll die of exposure, animal attack, banditry or some other misfortune.

>>2601008
It's a stupid punishment if you think about it.

>be relatively good guy
>get convicted of insider trading
>get passed around the cellblock

>be crack dealing pavement ape with over 300 confirmed drive-by shootings
>gangs have your back
>you get to fuck white bois

Like, it only happens if you're not a gang member.

>>2601022
>It's a stupid punishment if you think about it.
Perhaps. I'd say it's "good enough" in the sense that it probably keeps a few people from wanting to commit crimes. That's highly debatable though.

>>2600984
how is ending a life not the same as ruining it entirely?

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>>2600984

>Ending a life prematurely doesn't even come close to ruining it entirely

>>2601087
>>2601130
Not that anon, but:

>"The dead can no longer suffer."

>>2601139
>one awful experience is worse than not existing

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>>2600793

>Law is not morality

Eh, they are mutually reinforcing. An immoral law can't be accepted by the public at large and has to be changed to be in line with new conceptions of morality (decriminalization of sodomy, gay marriage, etc., current movement to legalize weed) and while morality isn't always put into law especially with regards to certain social conventions it certainly runs parallel to the law. Laws against murder, rape, theft, etc. (and the definitions of the crimes themselves) are based on certain moral axioms, namely 'do not harm others'. This isn't an amoral concept.

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>>2600984

>Throttling a small child doesn't even come close to getting drunk and fucking on a Friday night

Almonds = activated

>>2601145
>feeling nothing is worse than continuous torment and suffering

We could do this all evening, I'd wager.

>>2601158
So because you were raped once your life becomes complete torment and misery until you die?

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>>2601139

The dead can't experience anything good either. If rape victims are that upset by their experience then they can always opt out. Murder victims don't have an analogous choice.

murder is bad, rape is bad

rape is not as bad as murder, but they are both bad to be sure

>>2597341
You can take someone's life with Murder, but you take someone's soul when you Rape them.

>>2601195
wow, really makes you think...

in OPs case rape is entirely justified. therefore his axioms can be denied and this thread is gay and retarded.

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>situation in which rape is justified.

in war

I am a male/man/human who was raped as a boy and sexually abused until I was a young man. Most of the time I feel like I would rather be dead than live with the feels I have to feel. I wasn't murdered but it would have been better than the 20+ years of wishing I had the courage to just die.

For Society as a whole, murder is definitely the larger more destructive and costly problem.

For the Individual, rape is a larger problem because it causes a greater amount of suffering for a much longer period of time.

A few short moments with the fear of death and physical pain, vs. A lifetime of the fear of life and psychological and physical pain.

Luckily the power of the Keks and his prophet Pepe (peace be upon him) keeps me going.

>>2601168
Yes, its like you don't know those feels.

>>2600943
>should tell you the complete opposite
>which are however never going to be considered worse

So there are no absolute morals so you can discuss morals, but you can't because the discussion is over.

Literally done replying to you.

>>2598111
could you come up with a scenario where rape is justified? If nobody here can come up with a reason, then we are better off assuming it can't be justified.

>>2601260
wtf i love death now

>>2601231

This

>>2601277
>So there are no absolute morals so you can discuss morals, but you can't because the discussion is over.
The discussion is only over if you have nothing to reply to my criticism.

Since you are apparently unable to do so you got told and the discussion is now over.

>>2601267
If it's so bad you have the autonomy to end your life at any given point. If you're unwilling to do that, chances are your life isn't that bad after all.

Killing someone takes that autonomy away from you, it is the gravest of sins.

Get over it or kill yourself. Stop being a faggot.

>>2600151
underrated post

>>2597341
How about nature? God loves rape. All the more reason to cut down every tree you find. Fuck nature.

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>>2598714
>justified rape
lol wut?
Any normal thinking person will agree that there are more instances where murder is ok and none in which it would actually make sense to rape someone.
>Example Time!
>A guy comes at me with a knife
>Well, it's either me or him and his mind seems made up
>I kill him, I eat my morning flakes, shit happens.

>Guy comes at me with a cock
>Rapes me silly for let's say 10 days
>Spend the rest of my life going to therapy, breaking down during sex and in some cases (remember, rape and minors are like cocktails and gin) kill myself because I can't cope with reality. YAY!
>Source: I don't know why but over my short life I've actually met quite a lot of girls who were touched by their daddies.

Also, watch less porn. Girls usually, and this is 98% of the time, don't wanna fuck their dad, in any way.

>>2597341
I see no reason for the gravity of the crime being defined by whether there are circumstances where it can be justified. Throwing eggs at someone's house against their will is also unjustifiable in every concievable case. Is that also worse than killing? The gravity of a crime is defined by its harm, and the harm of murder is greater.

>>2597341
Your logic regarding how bad crimes are is really dumb. Yes, there are more cases where killing (murdering apparently) someone is justified, but in the same way that killing is justified during war, so is rape. Yes, there are more cases for killing someone to be justified than raping someone. However, the self-defence or euthanasia cases are a small minority of someone actually killing someone else. And even more importantly, by killing someone, you always end a life. When someone gets raped, they don't die. And that's what ultimately should matter.

>>2601260
there is more to right and wrong than avoiding pain

>>2602086
Self-defense isnt murder you fucking idiot

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>>2600984
Rape is literally putting a thing in a thing made to have that thing put in it, it's cells rubbing against cells.

That's literally all rape is when boiled down, with all the politics removed. Not remotely close to ending a life.

>>2601260
...why? A dick had contact with your body once... move on. We're animals. Shit. I'll never understand this.

>>2602165
How does that apply to me exactly?

>>2602171
Wow, it's like you described absurdity for rape without considering murder is just making cells stop, it's not like you're destroying matter.

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>>2597341
>Chad """rapes""" you
>that not a rape if he is hot tee hee :^)

>this guy rapes you
>boo hoo I would prefer to be murdered

>>2602176

It was more than once. If you never understand what it feels like to be a man and be raped by a man repeatedly over the course of years during your most sensitive formative years, you will be luckier than me. You honestly cant understand how much that can mess a person up?

I have nightmares and hallucinations about what happened. I do break down during sex with my wife. I have never felt like a real man, ever. Not even after my son was born. Sudden noises, voices, and even some rooms with certain types of lighting send me back there. It's not something that I can ever forget. There are reminders of what happened in the eyes of everyone I meet. I feel like everyone can see my weakness and my shame. I can never respect myself for not stopping it. I can never go back and tell someone to help me. I cant male the voices and the hallucinations stop. I haven't had a full nights sleep in decades. I haven't felt comfortable in a dark room, or alone in a bedroom, or even alone in any kind of silent place since I can remember. The rage and anger and fear are crippling and humiliating. Every day is a battle not to swallow a pistol.

I am glad for you son that you don't understand what its like to have your life snatched from you and your entire self concept devastated. I'm glad you don't show signs of every conceivable.mental disorder and you are too afraid to see any kind of professional. Congratulations your a real winner.

Death is more merciful but I will be patient because I respect my family and suicide is basically emotional rape of those needs and love.

>>2601260
>I have experienced x so I am an expert on y
Literally kys faggot

>>2602230

What is the x and what is the y?

>>2602228
Seems like the psychological torment is the problem not the rape itself. What about all the people who were abused as children but not sexually?

Jesus fucking christ!
All these edgelords ITT

The neet virgin meme is too true for this thread.

>>2602187
You only have 1 life. Are you going to spend the rest of it dwelling on this and your pain? You could easily use operant conditioning to solve your mental health issues, though difficult at first it would take a few months tops.

You could be on a safe space on reddit right now. Why are you here?

What happened to you was bad, you are a meek victim, but it would hardly be right of me to enable this behavior. The attraction of 4chan, I presume, is that people say things they otherwise wouldn't, there is no "virtue signalling". You are a random person so I don't care about you beyond vague notions of morality (probably a spook), but at the same time I'm not going to coddle and pander to you.

>in b4 "anyone who disagrees with me is a virgin NEET"

>>2602236
I don't know. I consider sexual abuse to be both physical and emotional abuse. It's everything wrapped into one with the added benefit of making you terrified of your own sexuality and guilty about feeling another persons touch, making you ashamed of your body even though its complimented, it makes you terrified of the complements and anyone looking at you in general, it makes you afraid of everyone that they want to use your and abuse you for your sexuality, even after you grow taller and stronger than everyone else. It makes you question your identity and belief in your self as a man and all the weight of what that masculinity includes, it makes you unable to look at or talk to a woman for 20 years, it makes you cry the first time your future wife sees you naked and touches you. It makes you cry all the time because you never feel like enough of a man for her. It makes you feel murderous rage at you abuser, and every abuser you ever encounter. It fills your mind with inescapable shadows that jump out at you in the night. It fills your sleep with nightmares of rape. It turns every night into a staring contest with the pistol in your dresser. I live for the day that that man finally dies. There are alot of things worse than death. Alot of things.

Sexual abuse carries with it very specific sexual related consequences, that emotional and physical non-sexual abuse does not.

I wont kill myself because I am not a looser even though everything in my life experience tells me so.

>>2602228
Sounds like your rapist wasn't a courteous lover.

But seriously that sucks man... what was the setting if you don't mind me asking? And I know it's redundant to say but I wish I could convey to you you were just an instrument of human nature which was acted upon... and it ought to be taken impersonally, however impossible that may seem. And hey at least you're not a dysfunctional neet given that you have a family.

>>2602252

What is the point of this post? The person you are replying to hasn't complained about 4chan or about what anyone has said in this thread.

>>2600045
If you were robbed at gunpoint and they just ran when they got your wallet that would be a serious violent crime even though you are not physically hurt.

I guess the intent is what matters.

>>2600125
What if a friend stuck a carrot in your butthole while you were passed out drunk? Would you butcher him in the courts and get him sent away for 5 years?

Perhaps sexually motivated behavior needs a greater deterrent, but it is obvious the real reason is that sex is controversial and society is obsessed with it.

>>2602266
he is a disciple of pepe

>>2602252
I come here because I'm nit afraid to be told get over it. As impossible as that sounds. I'm not afraid of the harsh light of 4chan because I have to believe that I can get over it even though every voice I hear tells me to "kill myself faggot". I seek truth and as immature and misinformed most of 4chan is, I think that even behind the trolling is a severe dislike of bullshit. I respect what a bunch of anonymous anti social internet trolls have to say over the self affirming feedback loop of reddit and normal people. It's not like they care anymore than you people do. But at least here people can speak freely.

Yes, I know I'm a whiney faggot. I'm didn't post anything because I want people to tell me "oh how sorry they are.for me" I posted my reality to be torn apart by 4cham so that I could try amd explain that rape does have consequences that cant just be discounted as meaningless because its not as bad as death.

For the raped, it is worse than death. Maybe someday it stops feeling that way, I don't know. It just seems silly to ask what is worse, rape or murder, and not consider what rape feels like in the long run.

>>2602264
>>2602277
Pls respond

Rapes only justified in a 'last man/woman on earth' scenario. Human race has to keep going. Other than that, can't think of anything.

>>2602259
Do you think being beaten as a child isn't emotionally abusive?

>>2597341

Rape can be justified if a woman killed your child or if you've been poisoned and need to keep your adrenaline up like that movie with Jason Statham.

>>2602277
4chan can't do much except roast you, mind.

I could be wrong about operant conditioning. You would need to find a genuine psychologist with years of experience with people who are totally fucked in the head to get better info.

The fact you only have 1 life and you should try not to spend it being a victim though is a core truth, I can't see any way around it. In regards to the conversation this means that murder is worse than rape, the rape victim may one day live again.

>>2602283
What about the scenario where a psychopath forces you to rape a woman or kill the both of you?

>>2602264
It was my father, and I know it wasn't about me. I know his father probably did it to him. I try not to take it as personal thing, but its hard to not take it personally. It's hard to believe that the man I was supposed to trust to protect me didn't do that. It's hard to look at my son and feel nothing but rage and the desire to murder my father, and his father and everyone else for that matter. And in all my years I have never harmed anyone and I promised myself non violence. I promised to love my wife, and I will make sure my son never feels unsafe. So keeping it all inside, unsure how or where I can safely release my rage. I cant honestly ever enjoy sex. I don't best for my wife but I know I don't do well. I feel like I am living life to spite the world, or God, or whoever. I feel like 4chan is my safe space. Here its ok to say that I would murder six million of any group of people to save my son from the feelings I feel. Here its ok for me to be dysfunctional and disturbed.

I don't know about morality, and spooky things. All I know is it takes every bit of my energy to find any reasons to go on and to not just see the ugly distorted world my mind makes.

I don't k ow what you want to hear. I don't know what I feel anymore. I just want to pain to stop. Someday I.can join with the great Kek and feel the glory of Pepe and his teachings for eternity.

>>2602285
It may well be. But I doesn't have the sexually specific aspect to it. Given how all encompassing and deeply rooted our sexual existence is biologically and psychologically, it can go to the core of a person.

I'm mot trying to rank them. A person can get emotionally abused and turn out alot worse than I did.

>>2602290
A good point. A rape victim may live again. Until then they live a hell that feels worse than death. I guess its hard to see it from either side of the fence. It will be funny to me if I die and there is actually something other than nothingness. I fel like as long as there is nothingness after life I can get close to "nothing really matters including me and what happened"

I don't think I could actually tell a living human person in the flesh what happened. Even my wife only knows vaguely I got fucked up. A professional head fixer might work. I don't know how to get to there.

>>2602303
I think your circumstances were just awful, and a father of all people raping you compounds it even more. How a father could do that... baffling to me. This is the first I've even ever heard of it.

Just for anecdotal curiosity, what race are you?

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>>2597341
>but I can't think of any situation in which rape is justified

Last 2 people on earth and she's /u/

>I can think of several situations in which murder may be justified

It's never justified. Thou shall not kill.

>>2602318
I'm white/caucasian U.S. Of A. It does seem particularly demented and detached from any identifiable human emotions. I strongly think his father did it to him, and so forth. How else could this particular impulse arise? It's counter to evolutionary and biologic imperative. You want your son to do well in life and successful in everything not cripple him with doubt and fear? I haven't forgiven him but will also never know why. There is no way to communicate with him.

>>2597460
underrated post.

>>2602319
>Thou shall not kill.

What if you caught your neighbor picking up sticks on Saturday?

>>2602333
Nice trips, Kek has spoken, you must kill him for solace. Kill your father.

Also
> white
Wow. Even more of a tragedy...

>>2602319
But it is justifiable:

It costs less (if you remove the whole bureaucracy behind every single execution)

It makes repeat offenders not a problem

It makes me feel good when i know some fucker got fucked for his actions.

>>2602337
I hope someday you will get very deep and long lasting experience in these matters so that you can have the satisfaction of knowing how right you are.

>>2602343
Kek be praised!

>>2602168
Well, it doesn't have to be self-defense. The guy could come at me because I stole his dog, touched his Gf's ass or threw a 12" dildo at him. We could connect a whole train of moral arguments where it is ok or it isn't to kill (which in some cases would be self-defense) however it seems more logical to cripple someone instead of killing him, making self-defense (that ends in murder) the most extreme option and not a moral high-ground.

Simply put: Yes it can be you fucking cuck.

>>2597402
There is in India

>>2602345

Executions aren't murder.

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>>2602171
Wow, you are.... it's like you're the embodiement of somebody with no friends or social meaning. Yes, it would be just cells "rubbing" against each other.

After writing that I thought of too many counter-arguments to write them all down. So, to make it short: Well, than have at it! Rub your atoms on some other atoms. When you go to jail remember that the cocks are just flesh and your mouth just atoms, rubbing the flesh in a slow but firmly manner.

>>2602382

Don't be silly, most rapes go unreported and even when they are prosecution can be difficult when it is one person's word against another's.

>>2602363
If a guy comes at you with the intention of murdering you, killing him is not murder you fucking idiot.
See how my point still stands?

>>2597363
>murder can be justified
No it can't

>>2597344
This.

>>2602505
>>2602505

I could think of scenarios where murder could be justified.

What if you knew for certain another person had raped and murdered two children and they intended to rape and kill more but you didn't have the evidence to prove it in court? Would it be ethically wrong to murder them?

Also there's the classic case of a loved one suffering from some debilitating illness who wants to die to end their suffering but is unable to do it themselves. Killing them is murder is countries that do not have laws permitting euthanasia.

>>2602520
>another person had raped and murdered two children and they intended to rape and kill more
I'd report that to the police and warn them about his intentions. My account should be fairly convincing if I knew for certain that he has done those things. I don't have to prove shit in court, that is the persecutor's job. Murder is unnecessary unless you start imagining completely unrealistic, if not impossible situations.

>a loved one suffering from some debilitating illness who wants to die to end their suffering
Not justifiable. Emotions aren't above a human life.

>>2602567
>I'd report that to the police and warn them about his intentions. My account should be fairly convincing if I knew for certain that he has done those things. I don't have to prove shit in court, that is the persecutor's job. Murder is unnecessary unless you start imagining completely unrealistic, if not impossible situations.

So you are just happy to let more children be raped and killed then?

>Not justifiable. Emotions aren't above a human life.

Sure it is, there life is nothing but pain and suffering and that's all it will be for as long as they are going to live.

>>2602586
>So you are just happy to let more children be raped and killed then?
No I'm not. That's why I reported him the police, I expect them to prevent that.

>Sure it is, there life is nothing but pain and suffering and that's all it will be for as long as they are going to live.
Literally not an argument. I made a claim and your reply can be reduced down to "nuh uh". And again I say no, emotions are not above a human life and should not be allowed to determine it in this manner.

>>2602627
>No I'm not. That's why I reported him the police, I expect them to prevent that.

There's not the evidence to prove it in court, those children are going to be raped and killed unless you do something. Sure you can just report it to the police if you are too worried about consequences for yourself, but those children are going to die.

>Literally not an argument

Yes it is, which is why sometimes prosecuting authorities opt not to prosecute a person in these circumstances even though a murder has taken place and some have even legalised euthanasia.

And we aren't talking merely about "emotions" we are talking about very real horrific suffering. It's a fair bet that many doctors quietly commit murder at some point in their career by deliberately turning up the old morphine a notch or two too high to help out a suffering, terminally ill patient.

>>2602645
Two children getting killed would be impossible to cover up completely. After all, I know that those events took place. The police are expected to find the evidence, not me. I will contribute with all the info I have. Not being able to prove the murders in court would be ridiculously unlikely.
>those children are going to be raped and killed unless you do something
So I do something, I report to the police. It is their job to prevent further deaths and persecute the criminal.
>but those children are going to die.
How? Look, this whole situation you're describing is fictional, too abstract and probably impossible. Just drop it altogether or go into the details and paint the whole scene more precisely.

>sometimes prosecuting authorities opt not to prosecute a person in these circumstances
What judges decide has nothing to do with what I believe is morally justifiable.

>we aren't talking merely about "emotions" we are talking about very real horrific suffering
Still emotions. What is suffering, if not an emotion?

>many doctors quietly commit murder
Yes, and? It's murder, unjustified.

>>2602695
>Look, this whole situation you're describing is fictional, too abstract and probably impossible.

Absolute nonsense. You have no clue how the justice system works if you think that is the case.

The scenario is the one I have laid out for you, not an alternative one where the police can stop it for you.

>Yes, and? It's murder, unjustified.

Why unjustified? Your response is just equivalent of going "uh nuh". If you were burning alive would you just say hey ho, this isn't pain, it's just an emotion!".

>>2602754
>You have no clue how the justice system works if you think that is the case.
I guess I don't.

>The scenario is the one I have laid out for you, not an alternative one where the police can stop it for you.
As far as I see, your scenario is set up completely artificially and I am forced to kill or allow deaths, while completely ignoring hundreds or other factors that would affect the situation in real life.

>Why unjustified?
Because human life is the greatest value and nobody is morally allowed to take it away.

>If you were burning alive would you just say hey ho, this isn't pain, it's just an emotion!".
No I wouldn't. It would be pain and therefore an emotion. Do you not understand simple categorization?

>>2602775

>I am forced to kill or allow deaths

That's correct, so is it morally justified to commit murder in those circumstances to save children from rape and torture?

>Because human life is the greatest value and nobody is morally allowed to take it away.

Why?

>No I wouldn't. It would be pain and therefore an emotion. Do you not understand simple categorization?

Let's say I agree with categorisation, how does labelling extreme suffering an emotion make a difference? It's not like just applying a nice sounding label actually changes the issue.

>>2597341
When murder is justified it wouldn't be murder.

>>2602800

The definition of murder is an unlawful, premeditated killing of another human being. There is no part of the definition that has anything to do with justification.

If i had to choose between the two my survival instinct would kick in and i would choose rape, simply to be alive afterwards.
Plus, murder the victim has no choice, yet if the victim is raped and too weak to handle the trauma, they can still choose to kill themselves,
So murder is worse, in my eyes.

>>2602171
Here's how stupid you sound:
>Murder is literally putting a thing in a thing to expedite the decay of a thing made to decay, it's just cell processes stopping when you remove the politics.

>>2602809
In defense fight is always better. You would hate living the rest of your life knowing you didn't fight when you had to.

Also don't die in a fight, die shiting yourself in a bed and being a pain for others. There's no escape to death. Seems a good idea to avoid the fight to survive but surviving more than enough in life is bad too.

Rape is never justified. Unless you want to fuck someone and she won't let you.

>>2597341
Is vandalism worse than murder?

I can't think of a single situation where vandalism is justified.

>>2597341
>Is rape worse than murder?
>there are people that literally believe that getting penetrated for several minutes in a completely natural way, without injuring or killing you is worse than being killed.
& Humanities was a mistake.
>muh pee tii ess dee
>muh pussy
>muh lack of consent
Rape is just assault and should be treated as such (i.e. couple of years of prison and a low 5-digit compensation to the victum or a fine)

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>>2602086

So did you just not read anything the other anon wrote or what's the deal here

>>2601305

>Not understanding the concept of Trauma

>>2597363
Justification and consequences are different things.

Yes, it can be justified to kill someone, but something being needless and something being worse are different things.

There is no justification for me putting shit in your mouth, but you can't argue that me putting shit in your mouth is better than genocide.

If it's justified then it isn't murder, it's homicide or manslaughter.

When my wife thinks she can't put out.

>>2597341
>Is rape worse than murder?


Not according to islam

>>2602413
True, but I think after one or two chicks telling the cops you raped them it could make things difficult for you

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>>2602444
You dense motherfucker, if you kill someone it's murder. Maybe for the right reasons, maybe for the wrong ones, in the end you are the person who couldn't think of any other option but the one resulting in the death of a brother of your own species you fucking ego-cuck. Utilitarianist out!

>>2597344
Underrated post

>>2603174
Again: if you think that trauma is worse than death then you're free to kill yourself at any given point and immediately end your suffering autonomously.

When someone murders you that choice is taken away from you. That's what makes murder the worst thing one can do to another.

>>2597341
"Murder" can't really be jusitified, because it's a big league crime. "Killing" covers taking life for justified reasons.

Killing someone in self-defense, or to alleviate suffering, is not as bad as rape. Violent murder is far worse than rape.

Yes, we fear humiliation more than death

Jesus Christ, ive never seen a bigger group of fucking losers in my life. How would you dumbasses like it if someone raped you in the ass? I highly doubt any of you neckbeards were thinking of this in any situation other than male on female rape.

>>2604226
Or can live you right life's and not get raped? Fucking retard

>>2604843
Oh, and don't think you get to be raped by anyone other than the grossest of fat fucks.

>>2604843

I wouldn't like it at all.

It is preferable to being murdered, though.

>>2597341

A justified killing is not murder.

>>2604872

OP didn't ask about killings in general. He asked whether rape was worse than murder and stated in his opinion some murders i.e. premeditated, unlawful, killings of another human being were justified.

>>2604863
That's because you're loser who has already been rejected by your family

>>2604863
/thread

I was molested by a man once. We were friends, we were both pretty drunk and he started hitting on me. I told him I'm not gay, but he kept going. It moved to inappropriate touching, genital groping, etc. and I could see he wasn't going to stop, at which point I told him to fuck off and left.

It was very uncomfortable, and I did feel violated to an extent, betrayed that someone close to me would try to force himself on me.

I would take that x1000 before being fucking MURDERED.

Saying rape is worse than murder is not only childish, it's selfish. You're saying something that really only impacts yourself (for everyone else life more or less goes on after a while) is worse than something that impacts everyone who knows you (you being murdered would cause untold and literally neverending grief to your family and close friends).

I have friends who were raped, and I have a few who died through various means. The second hit us (and keeps hitting us) harder than the first. You can't move past it, you can't get counseling, you can't overcome your trauma, because you're gone. And everyone you love is left to pick up the pieces.

>>2604843
I'd rather get raped by 100 niggers than getting killed.

>>2604889

What?

You think, hypothetically speaking, my family hated me it would be okay to rape me?

Or do you think it is okay to murder someone so long as they have a loving family?

>>2604906
Where did you get that from? My point is you clearly don't understand the kind of shame and guilt someone would have over being raped and having their family know it. Dumbass

>>2604843
>receive deep tissue bruises, a torn anus, the stench of cocoa butter and Colt 45 all over my body for weeks
>or fucking die
Gee, anon, that's a real head-scratcher.

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>>2597344
really makes you think

>>2597341
I can't think of a scenario when shitting in someone's wallet is justified, doesn't mean it's worse than murder.

>>2601283
>could you come up with a scenario where rape is justified?
Woman in a fit of religious mania/mass hysteria declaring that they will no longer bear children and deciding they have right to decide that the human race should die out. I would even go so far as to argue that ethnic minorities facing demographic extinction may be justified in raping their women to ensure long term survival.

To be clear though I am not suggesting that this is a likely scenario nor I am I suggesting it would not be a very ugly event, but no more so than a war in my opinion, and if we can justify war to ensure the survival of the group, we can justify rape to ensure the survival of the group.

>>2597341
>I can think of several situations in which murder may be justified, but I can't think of any situation in which rape is justified.
>>why is this the criteria for what is better or worse?
>>2597363
>If rape can never be justified, and murder can,
why though?
Why is rape never justified and why would that make rape worse?
You would have to categorize murder into justified vs unjustified.
Unjustified is on par with rape then justified is not.
You're committing the conflation fallacy with murder by saying
>if murder is good sometimes and rape none of the time then murder is more good than rape
But you can only say "sometimes murder is more good than rape" otherwise you'd be implying with the previous statement (yes implying as it is a logical derivative) bad murder is more good than bad rape, with the excuse being good murder is more good than bad rape.
>all these replies
Reddit is pretty retarded

>>2598714
>missing the point this hard
>>2602168
Yes it is, it's an unlawful killing, but it's justified. Look at war courts, all soldiers are tried for murder (at least in the U.S.) but they have the justification of service. It's one of the things they do before being discharged.

>edgy kids thinking murder is justifiable
christ

>>2597341
Despite what MRAs say, the sentences society gives to murders are generally higher than for rapists, and the clearance rate for murders is much, much higher. Murder with a sexual component is of course rightfully considered worse than both.

>>2597375
Came to say this

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>>2597402
haha - Good point man!

>claims rape doesnt work
Gee I dont know germany has not start a war since 1945

>>2599778
You're a fucking idiot for making this argument. Some slut isn't "all women."

T. Known Boss

To add fuel to fire: Rape is a wide spread fantasy of women.

>>2608485
Men are more likely to report rape fantasies than women are.

t. wikipedia

>>2597341
If someone rapes or murders a loved one it's certainly fair to rape or murder the scumbag as revenge. But I wouldn't wanna rape another man.

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What if you rape Hitler?

Rape is worse, stripping someone of their dignity and status as a human being with free will for a moment of pleasure is far more despicable than murder.

>>2602909
Do you just not live in reality? Rape is in fact a far worse experience than assault, it also carries risks like pregnancy and stds that other types of assault do not carry.

In the world of law the punishment for the crime is supposed to be equivalent to the amount of damage done, the victim is to be made whole. At the extreme end the death penalty is appropriate for taking a life, as an example. The idea that the physical and mental damage of rape is somehow equal to any other assault is simply false.

>>2608823
>In the world of law the punishment for the crime is supposed to be equivalent to the amount of damage done
that's what bubba's for

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>>2606525

>>missing the point this hard

This tells me nothing other than that you don't have anything to say.

>it's an unlawful killing, but it's justified
>killing in self-defense is unlawful, except that it's legally justified

I know this is 4chan but holy shit that's some advanced trolling.

On a side note, why is everyone under the impression that the only form of rape is horrendous, violent knife-to-throat back alley rape? Getting drunk and sleeping with someone, feeling pressured into having sex with someone, or in some places not giving affirmative consent (as opposed to implied consent) are also currently classified as rape. There seems to be all this nuance when debating killing someone but zero when discussing rape.

>>2608841
Every example you just gave is 10x as bad as murder.

>>2608857
Actually, the third one is only five times as bad.

I tested this myself.

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>>2608857