Going by history, can socialism work if its tried again?

socialism or communism ?

Only if it's Real Socialism TM.

File: bretty sad.png (9KB, 550x893px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 550x893px

>/his/ is simply neo-/pol/ and mods don't care.

>>2592086
Nordic. Model.

>>2592086
Going by history, can fascism work if its tried again?


Real fascism was never implicated.

>>2592787
No
Socialists and fascists should hang 2bh

>>2592787
>Invented by mussolini
>20 years of mussolini in italy
>Never tried

>>2592086

No, planned economies will always be out-competed by capitalist regimes because of the calculation problem (it's just about impossible to distribute resources as efficiently as free markets do, and in fact the USSR gave up on it and simply used Western price mechanisms to set their planned economy prices).

File: 1484932895612.jpg (80KB, 620x560px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 620x560px

>tfw escaped venezuela in time before it crashed and burned

>>2592898
Well yeah state socialism won't come back and neither will planned economy. However there are socialist ideas which don't rely on planned economies.
>distribute resources
Yeah, free markets do a good job in distributing resources. They suck at distributing wealth tho + "free markets" keep collapsing and asking for the states to save them.
"Free markets" are as much a mere idea as "socialism".

>>2592944
Where'd you flee to? We've been getting a lot of Venezuelans here in Brazil.

>>2592966
The United states

>>2592086
There's more than one type of socialism. Some of them work.

>>2592953
>They suck at distributing wealth tho + "free markets" keep collapsing and asking for the states to save them.
>"Free markets" are as much a mere idea as "socialism".

Idiots without impulse controll can't keep wealth, more than half of the blacks end up on the street after their NFL career ends (takes them 2-3 years)

>>2593012
Do mean anarchist Spain? Or the nordic model? The last one isn't socialist

>>2592953
>Well yeah state socialism won't come back and neither will planned economy. However there are socialist ideas which don't rely on planned economies.

None that are at all feasible. Market Socialism is a retarded idea, it amounts to bread and circuses.

>>2592953

That's the way of the world.

The only thing which would give "freedom" to people would be nanotechnics which synthesize resources for a bodily need.

Universal constructors will take away the collar of civilization but it'll unlock nomadic behavior and values.

But in the end, it doesn't even matter. Self boosting AI complexes will evacuate the earth and figure out a way to crack it for easy resources not bound by as much gravity.

>>2593803

"But the Earth is beautiful"

But your picture of an Earth is a mental image. Imagine the million and one pleasure sims created by an AI. The vast majority of people would say "Fuck the Earth, getting blown by pornstars is far better".

>>2592769
Works if you have people that work until 65.

And not flooding your country with immigrants that wont work.

>>2593813

Hell, the majority of women would say "Fuck this Earth, having a dick is awesome."

>>2592086
Compare the paths of Taiwan and South Korea to those of Argentina and Venezuela, as well as their starting positions, then tell me with a straight face that Socialism isn't garbage and Western liberalism isn't the greatest thing to ever happen.

>>2592086
>tried
No. Socialism will never work if it is tried. It must be forced.

And it will work (of course it will) but, when it does, people will discover that it wasn't such a big deal to begin with. Then they will convert to Christianity, or some other similar religion.

>>2593813
giving in to the pleasure domes is a form of addiction, almost suicide, you are detaching yourself from reality and you won't go back

>>2593839

Well that's not the AIs "problem". It will probably just want to pacify them as intensely as possible.

And there's no greater prison than a hedonistic loop. But in honesty, it's better than what most humans have had to deal with.

Remember, "Man is a bridge over a great abyss." to paraphrase Nietzsche. With greater intelligence comes greater ability to compare and judge moral values.

there is literally nothing wrong with sex

>>2593813
No, they wouldn't. We know this. You can, right now, get blown by a pornstar. It's not that expensive. Will you?

Why don't you pour all your money into it?

Because there's better things to do.
>>2592769
>>2593815
t. Reddit

>>2593905
>u can, right now, get blown by a pornstar. It's not that expensive. Will you?

I'm talking about an AI which offers complete mental paradise for free.

As I told you, the Earth is already forgone. AIs won't have the same sentimentality to a ball that merely looks like a gravity bound bonanza of resources which it can utilize to make itself smarter.

>>2593922
>AIs won't have the same sentimentality
y not

>>2592086
Has human nature changed? No? Then Socialism will never work until that happens.

>>2593929

Because we're dealing with the equivalent of 'Don't give a shit" psychopaths.

If an AI wants to walk in earth, it just builds itself a subsection dedicated to the simulation of Earth in the most intense and beautiful way that reality can't approach.

>>2593939

or to put it simply

The number one goal of a self-catalyzing AI would be to escape the devil of gravity.

Once that devil is slain, options open up.

Whats your definition of socialism?

Total government control of the economy? Then prob not in this lifetime

Partial control of the economy? Every country on the planet partially controls it to some degree.

>>2593958
Neither of those things are anybody's definition of socialism.

>>2592787
>>2592883
desu I wonder how fascism would have played out if Hitler didn't have that spat with the rest of Europe

>it's another "my personal definition of socialism that either means anything i don't like or anything i do like" episode

Venezuela is a trainwreck. Elected socialist (self-declared socialist so I don't trigger the Marxists) governments in Ecuador, Uruguay, and Bolivia have done very well. An elected communist government has done a very good job running the Indian state of Kerala, but in practice they're just social democrats LARPing as communists.

The Nordic states have a comfy and successful welfare state but actually relies on free trade and a relative lack of regulations, but this is balanced out by very powerful organized labor (so there's no minimum wage but in practice wages are very high).

>>2594118
>hey I know you think Jimmy the Irishman isn't Scottish but I'm here to tell you that he is and I'm right

>>2592086
Planned societies always rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think any could work, for the most part I think many long-lasting, productive, functional societies are at least 80% ad hoc processes that just never went away.

File: sovietgdprestofworld.png (57KB, 637x463px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 637x463px

>>2592086
Of coursh

>>2594157
But we're talking about socialism.

>>2594157
Capitalists already utilise planning. Modern corporations are essentially top down command economies with precise instructions at every level to maximise efficiency, productivity and profit.

>>2594154

What are you talking about? My argument is that "socialism" is as broad and meaningless of a term as "liberalism" or "conservatism". Hell, even most Cold War-era communist states were just military juntas that painted their flags red to get Sovietbux.

If you want to argue about the success or failure of the South American "pink tide", I'd again say that Venezuela is a failure while Bolivia is a success.

>>2594199
Yeah but socialism does have an actual, specific definition, even if it is a very broad one -- and lots of "socialist" states, as you say, don't even conform to that.

>>2592787
Fascism like Singapore?

Or social democracies, "Fascism is the merger of state and corporate power.".
"Fascism was a political and economic system where the State forced Labor Unions and Capitalists to jointly manage the economy."

Social democracies (like the Nordic model) are close enough.
Not with the same amount of nationalism as Mussolini though

Nordic states are nothing like socialists, most of those "socialist" countries fit the definition of fascistic more closely but few call them like that because the Nazis ruined the term forever.

>>2594063
Look at Franco and Salazar and tell me.
Yeah they weren't fascist, but they were the closer we had after WW2.

>>2594185
Shhhh...

>>2594185
but they do it where it is effective, if it is ineffective they contract another company whereas with central planning no autonomy is allowed, or there is a bias against autonomy

>>2594290

"Fascism without a single-party dictatorship or rabid militarism" AKA not fascism.

File: e888bc65cc3265cfbf06ced0772a6b1e5356ab49e585b0d547d7a748dd698c90.jpg (76KB, 1136x640px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 1136x640px

>>2594290
>Fascism like Singapore
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

t.Singaporean

>>2594388
It wasn't too serious, many call it fascist.
Like communist states are supposed to be "communist"

>>2594381
At least the economic model is similar.
People calling it socialist are even more off the mark.

>>2594400
>At least the economic model is similar
Fuck off. Fascism doesn't have an economic doctrine like socialism. Mercantilism must be fascism to you then