Was the Treaty of Versailles too soft?

>>2581178

Despite what Wehraboos want you to believe, th treaty of Versailles was completely reasonable and deserved

>>2581178
Come on now people, there's no point in just being the anti-/pol/. We should be better than just kneejerk contrarians who write the opposite of whatever polacks would write.

>>2581178

>Russia owning every Baltic state and Poland
>Turkey and the Ottoman Empire 2 different states

Wat

>>2581206

Explain it to me, this map is more autistic than a paradox grandstrategy game.

Is it about the "muh breaking Germany into separate states meme?"

>>2581178
>Germany isn't united but Italy is
Why?????

>>2581224
French butthurt

>>2581227
What about giving Alsace-Lorraine to Germany? That would give more butthurt.

>>2581178
Belgium has too much land but yeah Versailles was too soft, fuck woodrow "i'm a cuck" wilson

>>2581178
the Treaty of Versailles was worse than the holocaust

>>2581247
the treaty of versailles happened

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>>2581178
>Egypt
Why?

>>2581286
it became British under our timeline too

>>2581178

these borders are the concentration of french butthurt from the franco-prussian war baka

>>2581324
>implying the french butthurt was not justified
if we had listen to them we could have avoided another world war

Why would the Bulgars gain land?

>>2581184
The US senate voted against its ratification

Also not letting a country build long range transmitors is fucking dumb

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Reminder that the Austrian and Ottoman Empires (who were less reponsible than Germany for the WW) got dismantled while Germany didnt

Versailles was insanely kind

>>2581437
afaik those are their borders between Balkan War 1 and 2. They had some coastline on the Aegean then fucked it up in #2.


Also
>muh frantz
>only cutting up Germany + A-H
>letting the god awful Russian empire continue to exist
>Dividing Persia between UK and Russia
>no independent Finland or Poland
>Giving Moravia to Austria
>Giving Transylvania to Romania
>Giving Switzerland that goofy eastward growth

this is pure shit.

>>2581184
>the treaty of Versailles was completely reasonable and deserved
Butthurt French detected.

>>2581519
>>no independent Finland or Poland
meme countries shouldn't be independent
>>Giving Moravia to Austria
it's aesthetic

>>2581178
>Greece does not hold Constantinople.

>>2581540
>calling people who arent butthurt about a historical treaty "butthurt"

Projection much?

>>2581178
wtf is a neutral zone? sounds like autism

>>2581559
>the League of Nations was autism
Wow really makes you think

>>2581577
I mean it kind of was.
It was a dysfunctional mess made with the best of intentions that failed to do anything of note.

>>2581583
It created mandate system that led to the stability of Middle East for hundreds of years.

>>2581587
>middle east stable for hundreds of years.
You do realize world war one has hardly been over 100 years time traveler. But what other news do you bring us from the future?

>>2581505
>people forget the ottomans for a few months until they make their move
>they get broken up postwar
y tho

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Yes

>>2581178
>italians and french claiming shit that never belonged them
>oder neisse
fuck off

>>2581224
because Italy fought against the Central Powers in WWI you dummy

>>2581178
>that grossitalien
french truly know how to tease us
>>2582214
spot the buttblasted kraut

>>2581224
>Italy
>United

I think you mean irredentia. It's missing Trieste and Trentino.

>>2581178
>Swiss Tyrol
now thats my kind of autismo

>>2581178

Versailles was fine. Sevres and Trianon were far too harsh.

>>2581178
The reason WW2 happened in the first place was because the treaty was too harsh

>>2581220
Well desu Germany is basically just hundreds of German speaking states which United to form a nation state. Besides, Germany is still not united anyway because Austria is its own country and the kingdoms of Bavaria and Saxony were not broken up into different provinces like most of the rest of Germany and therefore exist as political entities still. Switzerland doesn't count btw because it is a heterogenous country, despite being mostly German.

>>2581334
If the Jews didn't sabatoge the war effort the Second World War would've never happens either, and Germany would still be the nation that it was meant to be.

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>>2584443
Sevres and St Germain were the only treaties that were fine. The others stole lands populated by ethnicities from the nations they were supposed to be apart of and levied unfair levels of debt upon the nations who lost.

>>2582214
Liberate Eastern Prussia and Alsace!

>>2581519
It was made by the French, what did you expect?

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>>2581789
Well The Arabs revolted against the Ottomans so they didn't even have control of the land anymore, but the British and French fucked the Arabs over and imperialized them so that's why that area was taken. As for the rest of the Empire, the Ottoman Turks committed genocide against the Greeks and Armenians so they got some land taken as punishment for their violation of human rights and to include it as part of those nations because Turks had no ethnic claim to those regions, even though they ended up violating the treaty and kept the land anyway after expelling the rest of the Greeks and Armenians for some Muslim Lebensraum.

>>2581505
The reason for this is because Europe was broken down upon ethnic lines, which is why the Austrian Empire which controlled Slavic lands was broken up, and why the Ottomans, who controlled Arabs, Armenians, Greeks, Georgians, Kurds, Jews, Assyrians etc was broken up too.

>>2581178
Please kill yourself. We have this thread every day.

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It was complete garbage and completely ruined Germany's rightful position as hegemonic master of Europe.

Not to mention pic related.

Only thing I can agree about Versailles on is uniting the Central Balkans under Serbian rule.

>>2581178
Not perfect but close. The biggest mistake was leaving G*rmany in one piece. It should have been separated in multiple states.

>>2581184
>th treaty of Versailles was completely reasonable and deserved
Demanding the largest economy on continental Europe to almost bankrupt itself is suicidal for all Europeans.

The French started WW2 in 1932 at the Lausanne Conference, against the wisdom of the Italians, British, and Americans; their arrogance saw them humiliated in the second war and has made them the military laughing stock of the world still. Germans can at least take some comfort knowing that much.

>>2586047
Not punishing Germany for its war of aggression is even more suicidal.

Versailles was merely a slap on the wrist, while it should have declawed Germany forever. It was far too lenient on them.

>>2586082
>Versailles was merely a slap on the wrist, while it should have declawed Germany forever. It was far too lenient on them.
This is exactly the kind of logic that caused Napoleon's empire to collapse in his own lifetime. You push a nation too far at the negotiating table and they'll come back to cut off your balls.

>>2586088
This is why Germany launched WWIII, right?

>>2586089
No, because America footed part of their bill and that of Western Europe's with the Marshall Plan dumbfuck.

>>2586105
So, if America didn't foot the bill, we'd all be speaking German now?

What about Japan? They didn't get any aid monies from the U.S.

When can we expect Pearl Harbor 2?

>>2581178
>Bohemia not united with Moravia and Silesia

fucking kek

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>>2586112
>we'd all be speaking German now?
Unlikely, because no one did after WWI and the Germans still lost the next round, but they also devastated Europe again.

>What about Japan? They didn't get any aid monies from the U.S.
SCAP and MacArthur get most of the credit for Japan's recovery. Land reforms and breaking up the zaibatsu fundamentally changed the state-run economy of Japan to a free market, capitalist system, but it was really the Korean War that provided the boom. The entire U.N. used Japan as a supply depot for the costly war, and Japan benefited unbelievably from it.

Ironic that it was once again Korean suffering that benefited Japan tremendously.

>>2581541
You are the meme here

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Germany should not exist.

>>2584558
But that's false, retard
The reason WW2 happened was because the German people was full of hardcore nationalist who couldnt accept the fact they had lost the previous war and thus wanted to give it another try.
And Versailles being too soft is what allowed them to try again

Meanwhile, Post-WW2 peace was much harsher than Versailles (country divided in two parts and under never-ending allied occupation) which is why they could never chimp out again

>>2586738
Everyone was hardcore nationalist back then. The reason they acted out is because they were issued an unfair and crippling treaty for a war they didn't even start. WW1 was deliberately escalated by a butthurt France in a haphazard attempt to regain losses from the Franco-Prussian War. France is to blame, directly and indirectly, for the development of the catastrophes of both world wars. Not that this removes the responsibility of Germany for the role it played, but if we are being honest about cause and effect nearly all of Europe was responsible for the tragedy of both wars.

>>2586800
t. Ludvig von Wolfenberg

>>2586800
>WW1 was deliberately escalated by a butthurt France in a haphazard attempt to regain losses from the Franco-Prussian War. France is to blame

Hurr
Germany is objectively the country that escalated WW1 the most
See >>2581505

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>>2586047

Germany did fine bankrupting itself during and after the war. Its financial institutions were not as developed as other nations such as France or the UK.

By 1918 its deficit accounted for nearly 94% of its GDP. France was at 80%. That's still only marginally worse, but Germany was consistent in making a series of financial mistakes. For one, the Hindenburg program was a not just a money sink-- It was more like a black hole. German loan banks gave out money like it was still backed by gold and foreign assets the government had already sold or used.

Germany's debt:GDP in 1921 was still less than Great Britain's. Versailles reparations could have been managed if not for incompetence during and after the war. German leaders literally pursued increasing deficits in the 1920's to try and prove to the Entente to drop the reparations. What kind of ludicrous policy is that?

Nope, Germany ruined its own economy. Versailles certainly didn't help, but it was not at the top of the list for their shite economy nor the inflation.

It's not like you need to a frog to see that the treaty, even though it was judged as harsh by contemporary, was actually lenient and wasn't even enforced properly because some people didn't want it to be.

No need to throw quotes at me about what american diplomats in the 20s or whatever german populist said in the 30s , because now we have to data to claim that Germany sinked its own economy.

>>2586908

It worked out in the end. By late 1932 payments for reparations stopped and they only paid off credits.

>>2586105
>>2586135
Fuck off muraboo, Marshall plan only sent minor amounts to w. Germany over a limtied timeframe, GATT and 10 other factors had a bigger impact

The value of the Marshall aid was about 15% of the value of the patents the Allies stole from Germany.

Get a grip.

>>2581178
Pan-Russianism was a mistake and Russia should be balkanized

>>2581178
no it was too hard

>>2584914
No one like the Turks.

>>2586948
>even though it was judged as harsh by contemporary
Contemporaries did not judge it as harsh. Brest-Litovsk signed only a year later was several magnitudes higher. It was around the same harshness of the Treaty of Frankfurt after the Franco-Prussian War.

>>2587883
desu

>>2586870
>French ally with the Russians to encircle Germany so that Russia could establish hegemony over the Balkans with impunity
>when the time comes Russia and France both get caught with their pants down
>people still say they dindu nuffin 100 years later

>>2588761
Except the Azeris ;). Oh wait, Azeris ARE Turks. NVM. "\__\'-'/__/"

>>2581178

The mistake at Versailles was in treating the G*rm like human beings.

They ought to have put down all the male G*rms and sterilised all the G*rm sows, and resettled the area with Dutch, Poles and French.

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>>2581178
>Was the Treaty of Versailles too soft?

>>2589206
P E R F I D I O U S
E T E R N A L A N G L O
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F R
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>>2586800
How much time did you spend on Stormfront to be that fucking indoctrinated, lad?

>>2589192
>alliances are unfair
>so I'm going to declare war on everyone and it's their own fault for not letting me be the most powerful empire around

Fuck off, retard. Germany is perhaps even more to blame than Austria for starting the War.

>>2589311
>so I'm going to declare war on everyone and it's their own fault for not letting me be the most powerful empire around
That's Russia for you.

Just another day sharing a board with delusional Frenchaboos.

>>2589367
>you have to be a Frenchaboo to think that Germany was to blame for WW1

Pretty much everyone except Wehraboos thinks Germany is to blame, mate. You need to give it up.

>>2584793
>t. Ludendorff

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>>2589308

>>2581178
So what the fuck are those neutrals zones gonna be? Just uninhabited pieces of land? Because if those zones are ruled by someone, they aren't really neutral anymore.