The Seas have eyes

>ywn witness a naval battle between the Egyptians and the Sea People at the mouth of the Nile

I wonder if the Sea People were Italians akin to the Romans and Samnites.

Take the Sardinian pill

>>2579774
>"The fact that several civilizations like the Hittites, the Mycenaean and Mitanni simultaneously disappeared around 1175 BC has led scholars to theorize that this was caused by incursions of the sea people."

thoughts?

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>>2579791
whats that?

The sea people?

>>2579814
youre joking?
you haven't heard of them?

>>2579774
unending waves of seamen destory ancient empires

>>2579814
They were big guys.

>>2579837
Your mom knows everything about unending waves of seamen.

There is no such thing as "sea people".

Were there maritime naval powers that ruled the waves? Yes, the Phoenicians and Carthage.

Was there some sort of epic proto-vikings that erased and destroyed entire civilizations? No.

>>2579845
for you.

The Sea People were actually members of an esoteric brotherhood of Sailors descended from the Phoenicians who deliberately plotted to destroy bronze age civilization because it was developing in a way not to their liking.

>>2579868
but what of ancient Egypt? the old kingdom claims to have faced these proto vikings

>>2579868
>illiterate people exist
>illiterate people beat literate people in a war
>several thousand years later, it appears like the literate people disappeared out of nowhere

This happens quite frequently, actually.

>My father, behold, the enemy's ships came (here); my cities(?) were burned, and they did evil things in my country. Does not my father know that all my troops and chariots(?) are in the Land of Hatti, and all my ships are in the Land of Lukka? ... Thus, the country is abandoned to itself. May my father know it: the seven ships of the enemy that came here inflicted much damage upon us.

And thus the ancient city of Ugarit was razed to the ground.

The sea people were a coalition of bronze age civizations (Mycenean Greeks, Sicilians, Syrians, Anatolians, Sardinians) that had been displaced by climate change, drought, famine, natural disasters, and loss of abundant natural resources. They sought refuge, but it was nowhere to be found.

>>2579783
by all accounts they were

>>2580318

i also read wiki once

>>2580318
>refuge

>Proceeds to end the bronze age

Shitty John green meme

>>2580478
>It's a /his/ think John Green is a major figure in academia and not a vlogger who makes simplified videos for teenagers episode

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>>2579783
Yes, they were. Hand burnished ware from South Italy and Sardinia was presente in Greece, Crete and Cyprus and even as far as the Levant during the late bronze age, thing is, said pottery is really plain and shitty and would never have been imported as exotic goods, so it basically testifies the presence of Italics and Sardinians in the Eastern Mediterranean exactly during the time of the sea peoples.

Also the fact that in those Eastern mediterranean sites they also found Italic weapons suggests that Italics were used as mercenaries by the Myceneans.

Weshesh coul be Oscians (South Italic)
Shekelesh could be Sicels (South Italic)
Sherden could be Sardinians

video related for very recent discoveries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoZ53ADmfuM

>>2579868
>"I want to voice my opinion despite not knowing anything about the subject"


Wow, congratulations on being annoying and contirbuting nothing to the discussion.

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>>2580848
Continues->

Another interesting clue might come from a recenet study about the genetics of Bronze age pigs.

Apparently during the late bronze age (1300 bc), Anatolian/Near Eastern pigs appear in South Italy, Sicily and Sardinia, during roughly the same time some Nuragic pottery appears in a Sicilian site and also at Lipari (one of the Eolian islands), suggesting that for some reason these Near Easterner pigs were traded between the main islands.

Also during the early iron age pigs in the Levant also change genetically, because the native Near Easterner ones get substituted with the ones from Italy

Sources: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep03035
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306345788_Like_a_pig_out_of_water_seaborne_spread_of_domestic_pigs_in_Southern_Italy_and_Sardinia_during_the_Bronze_and_Iron_Ages

>>2579872

If I take away that oar, would you capsize?

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>>2580474
Seems fitting
Like history repeating itself

>>2579774
We already know. Various roving nomadic groups that sprung up in a time of turmoil and started raiding and pillaging people. Except Egypt who stomped them and even had them fight against people for them after they captured them.

>>2580889
There's also Near Eastern cattle in Tuscany. I wonder if it's related.

>>2580899
It would be extremely impasse

So what's the deal with Etruscans and sea people?
Did they arrive from the Aegaean during the Bronze age collapse or before/after?

No uninformed brainlet opinions about them being native to Italy thanks. Their language at least was imported stuff and Italo-Celts were there before them.

>>2582153
>No uninformed brainlet opinions about them being native to Italy thanks.
It grinds my gears when some people here insist on the native theory garbage.

>>2582255
>>2582153
They were Italians, better deal with it you brainlets turks

>>2582338

Lemnian language disproves that fantastical fairytale since it's too similar to be explained by Cardium Pottery in 7000 BC.

And no, Talians were not KANGZ OF LEMNOS and shit.

>>2582338
kek
Nice English, gabagool.

>>2582153
>>2582255
explain the facts posited here >>2580848 >>2580889

>>2582391
What does that have anything to do with the Etruscans?

>>2582391

Sardinians moved to Levant

Aegeans moved to North-Central Italy

>>2582380
>>2582360
Lemian writings are very few and all date to like 600-500 bc so at least a century after the first Etruscan writings ever found in mainland Italy, so unless they found older ones it remains irrelevant and only testifies Etruscan sea voyages towards the Aegean, thank you very much!

>>2582415
Lemnos wasn't Hellenized until the 5th Century, which means the entire island had been speaking a pre-Greek language forits entire existence prior. So unless the Etruscans either founded a city on a deserted island or somehow managed to Etruscanize the entire native population in a century, your eastward colonization theory is out the window.

>>2582513
Ok, now, think:

What is more likely, for a numerous war like population to colonize a little island or vice versa, for a small island population to colonize a huge war like mainland urbanized population?

Note that the people Who inhabited central Italy during the Late bronze age/Early iron Age were extremely war like, They found a great amount of lethal naue II swords there, which were typical Italic weapons, these swords were so good that Myceneans adopted them and never used their old type of swords again and also most likely employed Italics as mercenaries, They were absolutely the most military like people in Europe along with central/eastern indoeuropeans.

Also, let's see the situation, the protovillanovian and later villanovian people maintained their war like behavior well Into the early iron age, They were aristocratic as it emerged from their individual burials with weapons and jewels, the Etrscans were urbanized massively at least since the 8th century BC, so late Villanovian period, They had cities, but I've read that the urbanization process already had taken place during the 10-9th century BC.

So, we have evidence of a massive urbanized population in Etruria in the early iron age, which was an evolutionary of the LBA population culturally (protovillanovian and villanovian culture are basically the same).

Now let's look at LBA/EIA Lemnos:

It's a small island, there's no really any evidence of urbanization in the bronze and early iron age, I've never really heard of any sword being recovered there and if any weapon at all was recovered They were a few whole in Central Italy we have a massive amount of weapons being recovered there both in the LBA and EIA and we have evidence of easterward movement of said weapons, we have no urbanization in Lemnos, Not even in the EIA, so please tell me how could They civilize the more advanced villanovians, Who were both culturally and military superior, archaeologists never even found any ancient monume

>>2583080
>>2582513
My post was too long, I'll write the rest later

>>2583080

But Terramare which preceded Villanova was distinctly Indo-European.
Something happened there. Somebody came from the eastern Mediterranean.

>>2583123
Terramare was in North italy only and belongs to a much earlier period (1700-1400 bc), Villanovians were in central Italy and were completely different cultures, they date back to 1200-1100 bc all the way to the 8th century bc, which is basical archaic Etruscan age.

The only things I could find about prehistoric Lemons were a few stoen buildings dating to the early bronze age and a necropolis dating to early iron age.

the weapons found in the necropoleis are only axes and knives, whereas the Etruscans had spears and celtic like antenna swrods, so even their weapons were different and so were the type of burials

Either way, it doesn't seem to be intensely populated, let alone urbanized, and the only significant site there /the necropolis) doesn't share any significant element with the Etruscan cities.

>>2583080
>>2583376
No one is claiming the Etruscans came from Lemnos. But could the two share a common origin? Definitely possible on linguistic grounds.

Strange how Etruscan civilization began exactly around the time when Phoenicians and Greeks started colonizing the western Mediterranean. It's almost as if the trend in the Early Iron Age was a westward migration as opposed to an eastward one...

Pontic steppe peoples turned into pirates

>>2583465
Maybe they were both Minoans, since Lemnos had a huge Minoan and Mycenean influence

>>2583519
I always come back to this thought.
Has anyone tried plugging Etruscan into the Linear A tablets yet? Or do we not have enough of it for that to work?

>>2583531
They theorized they were related but that's it

>>2579793
so proto-muslims then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4

Some of the Sea Peoples became the Israelite tribe of Dan.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/1.756385

Ethnogenesis!

>>2584709
Oh yeah, the Philistines too.

>>2579774
mirin calves

>>2582153
I reckon they arrived during the collapse because they were possible ex traders, merchants, tradesmen, craftsmen and what not that suddenly found their source of income cut off with the lack of trade in the Mediterranean with the east that led to them arming up and then raiding all their ex trading partners due to some deal or contract they had that was broken. But then raiding became a constant because they could sustain themselves and possibly recruited captives and outcastes into their way of life.

Also them horned helmets are cool..

>>2583499
I dont think it is strange, the eastern med was saturated with trade and cultures, further west they could exploit resources and make permanent settlements to boost and consolidate trade and raw materials e.g tin and silver which was found in vast quantities in spain, corsica and sardinia. Hell there is proof that tin was traded from old england by the greeks in those times.

>>2584051
Not quite. Sea peoples were a bunch of fags chimping out during the collapse of the bronze age. It was multiethnic and not particularly driven by faith. Some were greeks, some were libyans/hyksos mongrels, some were phoenicians, etc.

>>2584919
>Sea peoples were a bunch of fags chimping out
no thats the thebans and their sacred band

So what did the Egyptians do differently? How would they get their bronze with the trade routes cut

>>2585092
>theban sacred band
that happened 500 centuries after the official end of the greek dark ages, nice anachronism there buddy

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>you will never slay your enemies with a potted plant on your head

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>>2585363
There's still time anon. Never give up your dreams

>>2585190
its a joke mate, dont be so serious.

>>2585100

From the sinai and from the south (nubia and beyond)

The Sea Peoples were the Berbers, the West North Africans

>>2579774
atlanteans

GOT DAMN SEA PEOPLES!

>>2579774
I heard in a podcast a theory that they were outcasts that banded together because they had to leave their homes for one reason or another, but the king of that time had extradition treaties so they could never integrate into another society.

>>2586201
Cool theory, bro

>>2580889
I'm fond of pigs.

Corsicans