Holodomor

Holodomor denial is just as stupid as denying the Holocaust or the various Ottoman genocides (Armenian, Greek, Assyrian, etc.)

Literally all mainstream historian of all political persuasions believe that the Holodomor was a man made genocide.

It was a deliberante famine by Stalin and his jews to kill millions (perhaps tens of millions) of Ukrainians.

>>2578167
Did the Soviet Union purposely target anyone? I've read about how Ukrainians said it was targeted at them but I've also read about millions of Volga Russians, Belarussians, Kazakhs, etc. also dying. Why would the Soviets want to murder 7 million of their own? Was it because of racism? Or getting rid of people who they feel could pose a threat?

>>2578191
Ukrainians and "kulaks" (independent farmers) were targeted, and there was a fair amount of overlap between those demographics.

Part of it was ethnic hatred (see the Soviet-Ukrainian War), part of it was Stalin ending the NEP and "proletariatizing" agriculture.

>>2578190

Fuck off >>>/pol/

>NOT /pol/ with dates

>>2578133
>Was it really a manmade famine?
Yes

>If it was why?
Because Kulaks were hoarding grain and were opposed to collective farming.

>Was it really targeted at Ukrainians or did it occur because of a flawed Soviet System?
The famine was created by the Soviet system, but an attempt to punish Ukrainians for resisting the Soviet economic system definitely caused Stalint o let it happen

>>2578133
Ukrainians and Germans lived around Volga river been targeted. Yes, famine was artificial.

>>2578310
Thank you for answering my questions I am sorry for bombarding you with them but I have a couple of more.

When reading a bit from Russian sources, they claim that it was a natural famine as other countries like Poland for example were also experience bad harvesting seasons, they claim that because of industrialization and collectivization, the famine became a lot worse because of how flawed they were. Overall they say that there was never really an attempt to kill "kulaks", it was an accident because that was made worse.

However like you mentioned many mainstream historians agree it was man made, so how did the Soviets create it? Were they looking for opportunities to do so and the bad harvesting season be seen as an opportunity that Soviets immediately take advantage of, or is there more to the story?

>>2578133
Every famine is a man made famine. Unless it's a global crop failure caused by mini ice ages or volcanic eruptions like the bronze age collapse

England, Russia and Germany have committed genocide.

>>2578399
They made it worse. Soldiers were on perimeters and people weren't allowed to leave. Instead of giving people good, just sold grain on world market.

>>2578191
Volga russians were for a large part germans

"Manmade" is a bit ambiguous. I see no compelling evidence it was intentionally orchestrated, however the heavyhandedness and "ivory tower" centralization of the Soviet state meant nothing was done.

From 1929 onwards grain exports increased dramatically due to Stalin's industrialization and the great depression creating a strong institutional pressure to fulfil grain quotas. Collectivization gave the state control over grain production. When grain production fell below quotas the lower levels of state proceeded to completely empty granaries to fulfil obligations to higher ups who existed in political bubbles and were unwilling to lower the quotas. Ukrainians were accused of stealing grain to sell for profit, being enemies of the people, etcetera, compounded by the fact many hid small amounts for personal consumption to avoid watching their families starve.

https://newcoldwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Tauger-Natural-Disaster-and-Human-Actions-in-the-Soviet-Famine-of-1931-33.pdf

The famine also affected nearby "capitalist" countries, but not enough to cause famine there.

> In Romania, dry weather in fall 1931, followed by heavy snow in winter 1932 and a cold wet spring, left plants weakened and susceptible to disease, which spread both by storms and wind from the south and from other parts of Romania. The infestation lowered the wheat harvest in Romania from a previous average of 3.1 million tons to 1.5 million tons and caused substantial losses in barley, oats, and rye.

>>2578521
lol no
>>2578133>>2578167
Ukrainian farmers burned their own crop in a "if we cant have it no one can" gesture and starved as a result.

Just look at Soviet grain exports. They spike during the Holodomor. Why would export huge amounts of grain during a famine if you're not trying to starve people?

>>2578726
They don't spike
http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/WCR-Ukraine_Famine.pdf