/his/ can't refute this

>>2576088
Lel id change some of the wording and put something in between the last 2, but it's basically correct. A well planned and responsibly executed entheogenic experience combined with reading is probably the best way to accelerate this process. I have a handful of experiences that helped propel me past some of those traps (ie: reddit atheism) in a matter of days or weeks.

I've certainly tasted the last "tier" but have since regressed. It's also kind of a paradox because claiming "dude I'm so enlightened lmao" is itself a common ego-trap many fall into.

>>2576088
Level 5 seems comfy.

Hahaha awesome. Well nietsche came to the last tier, but he was stuck in it. Did that make him mad? Besides the chemical reactions in his brain, accumulated over a lifetime?

>tfw u realise ascendent lvl is exactly the same as lvl 1

>highest level
>believes in god

now that's some wew

>>2576088
How does Jesus preach ego loss?

His dumb ass religion precheas immortality which is the most ego driven desire possible

>>2576261
>Did that make him mad?
No it was the syphilis and mercury treatment.

>>2576088
>Tfw reached ego loss at age 15 without psychedelics but just thanks to intuition

>>2576270
There's no better way to express your will than to believe in God, my friend. Read some Kierkegaard

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That feel when level zero. Ignorance is bliss.

>>2576329

>your
>will
>believe
>god

All delusions.

I have, fun but ultimately wrong. Read Nagarjuna.

>>2576295

Is there anything he actually said which implies a permanent soul or anything like that? Obviously it's construed that way after the fact, but maybe if you do a close reading with consideration of the linguistic conventions of his culture the 'immortality' preached is something quite unexpected. Or not.

>>2576431
Yes, read the bible, he talks of following him to obtain eternal life

>>2576295
Every religion teaches immorality as the human spirit is immortal.

As to Jesus, Christianity teaches sharing in the oneness of God and Christ and sharing in the body of the Saints as one. This is what "there is no Jew or gentile, for we are all one in Jesus Christ" means. Not the modern liberal faggot interpretation.

>caring about proof at all
Somebody doesn't understand fideism.
>>2576295
Immortality destroys the ego, you child. The ego lives in the body because the self is an abstraction of one's physical form and whatever habits it has at the moment.
>>2576414
theyre wrong because fedora in my heart

>>2576265
Exactly what I was thinking when reading it.

Thus graph makes no sense. Fedorafagism is the least enlightened by any standard. It's not even like atheist aren't brainwashed In the same manner any society which would have brainwashed them into anyting had they been born there

Also nihilism is he poor mans philosophy. If you get past level 2 and don't realize life has a purpose you are not past level 0.

>>2576088

Sounds like a bunch of faggotry to be honest.

level 5 here
both levels beyond is just bubble desu

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>>2576088

>tfw Level 5

>>2576751
>>2576549
Patethic, level 5 should be below fedora tier

>>2576757

typical level 0 comment desu

>>2576088

Levels 6 and 7 should be moved down to -2 & -3 and labelled "stoned hippy".

Anything above (the deliberately insultingly worded level 2) is not necessary. Achieving personal goals, exercising well, eating healthily, maintaining good relationships with friends, partners and family and lifelong learning in whatever interests you are the best ways of maintaining good mental well-being and warding off depression and existential crisis.

I've got nothing against philosophy if you genuinely find it interesting and intellectually stimulating but worrying about the meaning of meaning is just a fun hobby.

>>2576088
>muh stupid christians
>muh enlightened buddhists
go move to china you fucks

>>2576812
This. The whole list is normie and pleb tier.

>>2576777
>>2576812

When the Shakyamuni Buddha was at Mount Grdhrakuta, he held out a flower to his listeners. Everyone was silent. Only Mahakashyapa broke into a broad smile. The Buddha said, "I have the True Dharma Eye, the Marvelous Mind of Nirvana, the True Form of the Formless, and the Subtle Dharma Gate, independent of words and transmitted beyond doctrine. This I have entrusted to Mahakashyapa."

>>2576823

Yeah, I think I heard some hippie say shit like that when he was on acid.

>>2576812
Yeah, it's not like he didn't mention Jesus as one f the level 7 examples or anything.

>>2576088
Who ever made this does not realize what "religious mysticism" is. He'd be better off putting that at the later levels and call the first level "deism" or something.

>>2576858
I think religious fundamentalism would be a better description of level one.

>>2576088

I had no idea I was level 5 at the edge of Mortal knowledge.

>>2576870
or biblical literalism.

>>2576880
Level five is fedora-trap.

>>2576088
>>2576880

To add on this, I'm actually impressed by this chart, all memes aside, it's literally step by step how my beliefs haven't changed over the years.

>>2576889

You're not wrong, but I'd consider myself in between 5 and 6, as I get older (I'm 30) I find myself being way less Fedora than I was 10 years ago.

>>2576088
>Thomaism is lower than fideism
Some protashit made this.

>>2576901
Pretty much everyone that isn't Catholic considers Thomism to be garbage.

>>2576906
it's more well received than fideism of all shit. If he said gnosis or something i'd be impressed.

>>2576909
Actually, it's kind of weird considering fideism and level -1 go hand in hand.

>>2576894
This

>>2576088
Level 6 with elements of many of the prior levels. What does it mean?

>>2576841
Let's try again

Ummon asked the head monk, "What sutra are you lecturing on?"

"The Nirvana Sutra."
"The Nirvana Sutra has the Four Virtues, hasn't it?"
"It has."
Ummon asked, picking up a cup, "How many virtues has this?"
"None at all, " said the monk.
"But ancient people said it had, didn't they?" said Ummon. "What do you think of what they said?" Ummon struck the cup and asked, "You understand?"
"No," said the monk.
"Then," said Ummon, "You'd better go on with your lectures on the sutra."

>>2576926
The list is very unsure of itself. It's a mix of atheistic and protestant theology before suddenly reaching Christ and Buddha levels out of the blue. For instance, you need to accept nihilism, pure moral relativism and scientism before accepting zen Buddhism, fideism and enlightened apathy? It makes no sense.

>>2576088
Oh shit nigga I'm level 7 no joke

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>>2576982
You will understand

>>2577014
I did it with ecology evolution and magic mushrooms, it was easy

>>2576954

When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.

>>2576088
>level infinity= Jesus
>Jesus= religous mysticism(level 1)
What did you mean by this?

>>2576982

Not to mention -1 and 7 are exactly the same thing.

>>2576461
What is the purpose?

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>>2576461
and what purpose is that exactly, everything dies

>>2576459
>Immortality destroys the ego, you child.
Are you retarded? If you destroy your ego then whatever continues to exist after that isn't you, ergo you're not immortal.

>>2577046
That the end is the beginning and spiritual evolution is actually an eternal cycle.

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>>2577072
Life doesn't die
Life isn't a material being, it is information that form of constraints that focus matter and entropy into animation in the empty space between the constraints. Said metaphorically, Life is the pot that carries the water. These constraints self replicate(genetics), and change(evolution) and interacts via biosemiosis(sign relations) with itself and its environment while traveling in the form of wave packets of constraints (individual organisms). Life on earth is a single, immortal entity, flowing in a dendritic pattern from the time of its emergence. This emerging concept is vitalism, life's vitality is not force, it is constraints that turn entropy into a working mind(complex adaptive system) that reproduces these constraints.
t. Level infinity

>>2577087

In other words you are brainwashed peasant tier.

>>2577097
this is just theism by another name, its a fantasy

>>2577097
the universe was getting along just fine before life, and will do so again after it

>>2577106
How so?
I understand that it is the philosophy of biology. You could call it biological pantheism if you want. But it is all abstracted from observable, emergent mechanisms in the physical universe that can be pragmatically understood.

>>2576088
level 0 is the true red pill

>>2576901
Thomism is for disturbed children.
>>2577085
Somebody needs to pick up a fucking book.

>>2577119
Yeah of course. The point is life is the medium through which meaning is interpreted, and it is the only thing capable of holding value.

>>2577133
and what is the point of interpreting it, how does observing and cataloging these processes have any value whatsoever other than giving us something distracting to do while waiting for death

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>>2577138
We don't die, all the information we interpret will continue with life.
>what's the point
To live

https://finewhiningandbreathing.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/jonmans-level-chart-to-existential-frameworks/

Where did you even find this, OP?

>>2576088
*refutes this*

>>2577119
The universe did not exist before I did: it awoke for me, and the sun rises for me.

>>2577145
>we dont die we live as long as we're remembered
all men are forgotten eventually

>the point of life is life
do you not see how this is circular logic, without some larger meaning there is nothing to justify the abject suffering that life is for many.

>>2577176
My whole premise was that life exists, and remembers beyond the organismal level, in ecological systems. Organisms are lower order living systems, but they are how meaning is interpreted.
>the point of life is life
That isn't circular logic, what makes life alive is its ability to interpret and adapt to its environment in order to continue existing.
The continuation of life is more than enough to "justify" suffering(and all other experience) you need to drop this anthropocentric theory of value.

>>2577218
im still not getting what you're trying to say life's meaning is

are you saying there isnt one other than the propagation of life? Why should I?

>>2577040
well done

what I mean to say is that I'm not sure that being alive is inherently a desirable state considering all the people who are unhappy, mentally ill, in chronic pain due to health problems, born with extreme birth defects, etc, etc

just because i can create life should I? Frankly I'm unconvinced that its the right thing to do.

>>2577231
Life's meaning is the meaning it interprets wether it be suffering, joy, or whatever else. Eye of the beholder.
>why should I
Because you have to if you are alive.
You can kill yourself but that is the only way for you to escape value.

>>2577295
>Because you have to
says who, who is commanding me to reproduce even though I find it to be morally questionable

>>2576088
>materialism above anything
>nihilism above material skepticism
>"enlightened" nihilism
It's fine I guess as far as charts go

>>2576265
That's the final red pill. Knowledge is cyclical, eventually you become so enlightened and aware you're indistinguishable from an illiterate peasant

>>2577310
Nobody
But being alive means that you are interpreting meaning, and evaluating that meaning. Like suffering, or finding reproduction morally incorrect, those are value judgments.

>>2577097
All that blabbery is level infinity?

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>>2577343
Yes

>>2577342
and?

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>>2576088

>mfw I realise I am stuck to level 4

>>2577414
somewhere between 4 and 5, life is a meaningless accident, and creating meaning is nothing but a fantasy, but as long as I'm here I might as well do what I can to ease the suffering of the others cursed to suffer and die as I have.

>>2577356
That's all.
Life has value, just not inherent value. Intrinsic value is a semiotic impossibility. Value must be abstracted from meaning interpreted from external signs, there is no other way to evaluate.
Nihilism is pretty much claiming that something that doesn't exist, isn't real and that makes the extrinsic value that does exist irrelevant somehow.

>>2576295
>teaches humility in relation to the divine order/god before all else
>ultimate spiritual attainment is to be permanently close to the divine and to glorify it
Yes, clearly an inherently egotistical philosophy.

>>2576431
The concept of eternal bliss or condemnation of those judged as sheep or goats is straight from the big J himself

>>2577176
>do you not see how this is circular logic
It isn't circular logic at all. He's just saying life is inherently good, which is about the same as you saying life is inherently bad

>>2576461
Christfag detected

>>2576088
I've gone through this almost exactly how it's listed but I am so far stuck on level 4. I have been for a year or two. I'm only 22 though so I think I am still changing for the better.

>>2577464
>Only Christians hate atheist
kys

>>2577462
Tell a serial rape and domestic abuse victim who's known only violence and suffering that life is inheritently good and should be lived for its own sake

>>2577468
Kys all you'd like but that comment was christfag af af

>>2576088
>sitting at computer
>smoked a little weed but only enough for a slight buzz, nothing intense
>someone here posts a Youtube documentary about nomadic Turkish goat herders
>where the goats go, there are few to no bad forest fires
>goats wipe out the underbrush, little good kindling for wildfire
>but goats are retarded, humans direct them so that they can get the most food possible and not totally deplete an area before starving

>suddenly realize ecosystems are just giant organisms
>"individual" "organisms" like cells in a body
>"the earth" is a giant organism clinging to a rock like moss
>mfw

Is this what it feels like to go up a level?

Also why is nihilism so high? Why distinguish between inherent meaning and "created" meaning? Unless you believe in absolute free will, anything you think is inherently able to be thought by your brain, what's more inherent than the capabilities of your natural form?

>>2577493
>these people would reject your claim due to subjective experience, and you'd feel guilty leading to a decline in your ability to think rationally talking to them so I'm right
k

>>2577493
>life on earth isn't egalitarian
wow. In another news the sun rose in the East today and liberals are still retarded.

>>2577122
It's theism because he doesn't understand what you're talking about. Not that i think you're right but it does seem like a coherent interpretation of science

>>2576088
Ego death is the true red pill.

Everytime I suffer, I remind myself that many of my incarnations are happy, and when I am happy and full with pride, I remember that many of mine incernations are suffering and I humble myself

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>>2577122
>But it is all abstracted from observable, emergent mechanisms in the physical universe that can be pragmatically understood.
so is theism

>>2576909
Fideism may have fewer followers given the size of the Catholic church but it's adherents are extremely intellectually diverse. The theory applies well to many schools of thought, whereas thomism is just a desperate attempt to Catholicize Aristotle

>>2577527
Theism is not "abstracted from", it's just unrelated to (or poorly related).

>>2577515
>Is this what it feels like to go up a level?
Aboslutley, what you had is called a deep ecological experience. It's higher consciousness.
www.uky.edu/OtherOrgs/AppalFor/Readings/240%20-%20Reading%20-%20Deep%20Ecology.pdf
Congratulations
Check out this story
One morning, Leopold was out with some friends on a walk in the mountains. Being hunters, they carried their rifles with them, in case they got a chance to kill some wolves. It got around to lunch time and they sat down on a cliff overlooking a turbulent river. Soon they saw what appeared to be some deer fording the torrent, but they soon realised that it was a pack of wolves. They took up their rifles and began to shoot excitedly in to the pack, but with little accuracy. Eventually an old wolf was down by the side of the river, and Leopold rushed down to gloat at her death. What met him was a fierce green fire dying in the wolf’s eyes. He writes in a chapter entitled Thinking Like a Mountain that: “there was something new to me in those eyes, something known only to her and to the mountain. I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunter’s paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.”
Now look at me >>2577097

>>2577533
>The theory applies well to many schools of thought
only Protestantism preaches "muh faith alone." or "logical is only proven by muh faith" Buddhism and Taoism certainly aren't like that, making the chart idiotic.

>>2577527
>>2577527
I agree, cognition is relative.
While our interpretation of truth might be relative. The pragmatic approach is not, which is where my interpretation differs from supernatural theism.
I already admitted to being a biological pan"theist" but that's just semantics.

This is why level 1 and 7 are the same thing. The only difference being level 1 is indoctornation and level 7 is discovery.

>>2576088
>tfw level 2

I want to be higher but I know that everything other than science is completely irrational

>>2577462
No its not, he's saying life is inherently good because it just is

I'm saying life has the potential to be full of extreme suffering for people who never asked to be subjected to it, and that outweighs whatever inherent good it has for reasons he never got into other than saying we have to create life because we're alive. What utter nonsense.

>>2576088
I have jumped from level 1 to level 7 when I was a teen

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>>2577516
>calling someone an idiot while at the same time not realizing you're agreeing with them

>>2577516
>unironically believes life on earth isn't egalitarian
Tell that to muh systems
It really is, the only disadvantages come from behavioral/morphological/devolpmental hetrogeny amoung organisms a bird eats a worm but that's not heiarchy its panarchy, besides the worm making it possible for the tree the bird nests in to grow, it also feeds the bird.
Anthropocentrist and their naive reductions are an ironic meme in the evolution of cognition

>>2578185
>he's saying life is inherently good because it just is
What he actually said was that life is valuable because as an aggregate system it retains information very well, and therefore is worth continuing.

He's saying there's essentially inherent value in maintaining the system with as much fidelity as possible, i.e not needlessly destroying parts of it, and that this end is worth the sacrifice that everyone will suffer some and some will suffer a lot.

You disagree by saying that the suffering is *not* worth it to maintain the system, i.e that avoiding suffering is more valuable than maintaining life. This is an equally circular assertion as his, but you tried to weasel out of it by being very careful to state it as a negative.

How can you prove that avoiding the suffering of an individual is more valuable than what he said? Why does avoiding suffering have value, essentially? If your answer is because all we have inherent to us is physical stimuli so avoiding negative stimuli is good, how can you prove that avoiding negative stimuli is worth loosing out on positive stimuli? Surely if negative stimuli is inherently bad, then positive stimuli is inherently good, yes?

>>2576898

Same here my dude

>>2576443
>>2577457

Close reading means looking at what was actually said in the text from a critical, historical, and linguistic perspective. Maybe he did mean that, but these are just assertions you are making based on preconceived popular notions about what he meant.

>>2579040
>fear not him who can kill body. Instead fear him who can kill the body and soul in hell.
What did Jesus mean by this?

>>2576247
Level 5 is the sanest one
I wish more people were level 5

>>2579047

Ok that's a great start. Now we would have to unpack it: is it an authentic saying according to the Jesus Seminar, what is the context of the passage, which book is it from and how does that colour it's meaning, what is the original meaning of the words before they were translated, what does "hell" and "soul" mean in context, etc? I know it's pedantic but i think it's really enriching to do this.

>>2577493
Would that person be you, perhaps?

Weak.

>>2578235
>anthropocentrism is a meme
I think therefore I am, can any animal say the same?

>>2578320
because what really bothers me is the unfairness of it all, have you ever seen a child born with so extreme birth defects that they can barely even be said to be alive? Have you ever had to care for one? I have.

Why were they not allowed to live a normal life, why were they denied anything but pain and suffering? They never asked to be made, its not fair and its not right. I could never create life when there's a chance that it ends up like that.

>>2579246
People will one day learn learn that this is an inferior state of being. That's why defects exist.

>people claiming to be on the last level while fapping to traps in an hondulese sandal making board and using computers.

Numbered tiers are always automatically wrong / simplifications unless the matter being classified is naturally discrete.

Also level 3 is more like level 4 and level 4 is actually level 3.

>>2577585
Don't you have some pagan worship to do?

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>>2576088
>Level 6
>suicidal thoughts are just as arbitrary as the desire to live

That settles it

>>2576265
>>2576460
>>2577332
"The greatest wisdom seems like ignorance"
-Tao Teh Ching

The last one is literally satanism. It's what the occult luciferians, freemasons, dualists and gnostics believe.

>Man can become like gods!
New Age demonic garbage.

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Fixed OP's image.

The final redpill is Biblical Christianity.

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>>2579484
this.

i used to be into that stuff until i realized its the path to hell

>>2579484
Try again, mate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinization_(Christian)

>>2579679
>becoming more like God in specific aspects
>the same as being literally God
You might be retarded.

>>2579367
Most people repeat it like a cliche.

Actually wise people doubt themselves so much that they seem to be unsure of everything, and most people interpret being unsure as being "unaware of the truth". The less aware you are, the fewer ways you could imagine yourself being wrong, the more sure you seem and thus the more aware you appear.

>>2579484
http://www.antiochian.org/content/theosis-partaking-divine-nature

What's opinion on the church fathers who disagree with you?

>>2579828
New Testament church founded by Paul > "church fathers" that came hundred years later

>>2579484
/thread

>Dualism: The Illuminati Religion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUkiBz9rYEs

>AGE OF DECEIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjmFm8PIz8M

>The Choice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-SzIJngWqE

>>2579765
Try harder.

>>2579246
>have you ever seen a child born with so extreme birth defects that they can barely even be said to be alive? Have you ever had to care for one? I have.
I don't mean to sound like a dick, but this article http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23682263/ns/health-womens_health/t/when-baby-destined-die/#.WNsbOmTys1I is about as good of an argument as what you posted. You're implying that I wouldn't know what it's like and that you do. But clearly these people also know what that's like and reached a different conclusion, what am I supposed to think?

>Why were they not allowed to live a normal life, why were they denied anything but pain and suffering? They never asked to be made, its not fair and its not right
For a nihilist, you sure talk a lot about value judgements like "right" and "fair". What is right, and why is right good? What is fair? Is radioactive decay "fair"? What about fluid motion? Surely for you to be able to declare that something is "not fair", there must be something actually fair to judge it against, is anything fair?

Hell, you keep talking about how nothing has value, what is value objectively and why is it important? Why would value make life "worth it" (again with the circular nature of nihilism, the nonexistence of value means that things have no value i.e there is no value so there is no value) and the lack of value make life not "worth it"?

> I could never create life when there's a chance that it ends up like that
Well statistically most babies do not have birth defects, so in creating a life odds are you create more positive stimuli rather than negative. Unless you care more about the individual case rather than the aggregate, in which case I must wonder how you manage to be a nihilist, an antinatalist, and an individualist all at once.

>>2579897
Nice rebuttal.

>>2579912
a radioactive isotope is not aware that it is decaying, a human being in chronic pain waiting to die is aware of it

when I talk about fairness and unfairness, I'm thinking in terms of human suffering and human pleasure. Obviously these things are going to be entirely subjective but the amount of negative stimuli that are just due to bad luck disturbs me greatly. Can you look at something like the 100,000 syrian children murdered in the civil war and not be disturbed by it?

So yes I'm a nihilist because I don't really see any meaning in human existence, we all die, humanity will die, the universe will die, meaning that life has to be an end in and of itself. There is so much suffering in this world that I can't agree with that assessment. So yes I'm an antinatalist, I never want to have children and frankly I think creating life is just about the most amoral thing a person can do. You're bringing a person into this imperfect world without their consent only for them to suffer and die as we do.

And yes I'm an individualist too, since we're already here we might as well make the best of it while waiting for death.

You're right in noting that my concerns are focused on the individual cases but I don't really see why you think there's any inconsistency there. I will never reproduce and it saddens me greatly to think that others will but its not my place to make decisions for them. Unfortunately that's exactly what they do when they create new life though.

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>this fucking thread

>>2580170
>a radioactive isotope is not aware that it is decaying, a human being in chronic pain waiting to die is aware of it
I fail to see the link between awareness and fairness. Plus I've seen plenty of people argue that very young babies aren't self-aware.

>the amount of negative stimuli that are just due to bad luck disturbs me greatly
Why should luck disturb you? It's simply a non-existent value created by humans.

>Can you look at something like the 100,000 syrian children murdered in the civil war and not be disturbed by it?
No, but I'm not a nihilist. Why do you value the happiness of Syrian children?

>So yes I'm a nihilist because I don't really see any meaning in human existence
If you see no meaning in existence why are you disturbed by suffering?

>There is so much suffering in this world that I can't agree with that assessment
WWWWWWHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYY DDDDDDDOOOOOO YYYYYOOOOOUUUUUUU CCCCCCCAAAAARRRRREEEEEEE???????

>I think creating life is just about the most amoral thing a person can do
So morality exists now?

>You're bringing a person into this imperfect world without their consent
Why is consent relevant or important?

>only for them to suffer and die as we do
I'm pretty okay right now. Not wonderful I suppose, but I wouldn't call my fate a curse exactly, nor "abject suffering". And not that I'm the biggest fan of death, but you really can't prove that it's "immoral".

>And yes I'm an individualist too, since we're already here we might as well make the best of it while waiting for death
Why? Because you want to? What if that's my reason for having children, are your desires valid but not mine?

>but I don't really see why you think there's any inconsistency there
If you see no meaning in human existence, why do you care about it? And again if your argument is animal instincts or some other innate inclination, why is having children immoral?

Cont.

>>2580280
>but its not my place to make decisions for them
Why not? How do you make any sort of value judgement without... value?

>Unfortunately that's exactly what they do when they create new life though
What's fortune? Why does it matter for something to be unfortunate?

Basically all "nihilists" are edgelords who thought that being normal edgelords was too mainstream, and decided to pretend that inherent value and meaning don't exist all while using their own values to justify how the world has the inherent value of evil. The funniest part is when they claim intellectual lineage from nietzsche

>tfw used to be hardcore lvl 5
>fell back into level 4ish with an existential crisis

pls help

>>2576088
level 2 and level 6 are basically the same shit

>faith doesn't mater because SCIENCE
vs.
>faith doesn't mater because it's arbitrary

Looks like im level s...

>Suicidal thoughts are just as arbitrary as the desire to live.

Not sure about this, maybe if it was quoted:
"The Desire to comit suicide is just as arbitary as the desire to live"
I could agree with you, but we can't think that our thoughts are arbitrary.
For example, when we get hungry, we will think about food or "What should i get?". In this scenario did you personally choose to think about food or the thought just came into your head?
"I'm feeling hungry, time to think about some food"

That's why, in my opinion, we cannot determine suicidal thoughts or thoughts in general, as arbitrary.