Sulla

>>2552854
>How was Sulla not the bad guy?
You have to consider who he went against. Marius was basically the competent version of Pompey, while Sulla was basically the homosexual hedonistic version of Augustus.
Now who would you consider the good guy between Pompey and Augustus?

>>2552854
hard to be a bad guy when you are up against Marius

otherwise known as the Stalin principle

>>2552897
bad comparison

Pompey did nothing wrong

>>2552963
>Pompey did nothing wrong
Top fucking kek. The man acted so unconstitutionally I do believe the only reason he didn't wipe his arse with the republican constitution was that it was inscribed on bronze plates.
He literally wronged every side at one point or another, and was only sought after because he was way richer than Crassus and he had literal armies of veterans on call all around Rome. And he inherited those from his daddy, it's not like he built his support base up like Caesar.

>>2552988
Pompey tried to save the republic unlike Augustus that outright destroyed it

better to say that Sulla was Pompey and Marius was Augustus.

>>2552956
Marius did literally nothing wrong

>>2553018
except purging anyone he didn't like for good no reason

But he was the bad guy, optimates deserve to be crucified
On the other way, Maris did literally NOTHING wrong

>>2553030
Sulla did the same thing

>>2553038
only because Marius started it

>>2553050
He could've done what Caesar did and not continue

>>2553007

>implying Princeps Augustus isn't the savior of the republic

I bet you're also a smelly gaul.

>>2553053
and Marius could've not purged in the first place and prevented all that shit from happening

>>2553007
>Pompey tried to save the republic
Top kek, preventing your political rival from usurping you is hardly "trying to save the republic". His activities as a triumvir were basically equivalent to what Anthony and Augustus did a few years later.

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>>2553007
Augustus saw the writing on the wall and realized that it was beyond saving. The public government had grown too large, too bloated, represented too many special interests, and the senate was packed with the stooges of aristocrats who's solution to every problem was "do nothing and hope it goes away on its own" while they turned a blind eye to the problem of aristocrats bleeding the provinces dry.

>>2553018
Marius's biggest crime was not going far enough. His military reforms were sorely needed (another one of those problems caused by conservatives in the senate hating change) but it was a half-baked political compromise which accomplished some good, but didn't go far enough and left this gaping problem of veterans who were more dependent on their generals for their after service quality of life than the state, so as the state grew more dysfunctional and useless, naturally soldiers started becoming more loyal to their general.

>>2553075
>Marius's biggest crime was not going far enough.
Marius' biggest crime was trying to stop everyone else from gaining fame Tiberius style and going full Pol Pot in his later years.

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>>2553062

>using a tu quoque argument
>in the year 2770 ab urbe condita

>>2553223
>venite ad me fratrer
I mean, my latin is rusty, but this should be either
veni ad me frater
or
venite ad me fratres
Fratrer is just flat out wrong. It's not a correct declination.

>>2553097
That only happened because Sulla chomped out before going to fight mithridates

>>2553367
>Sulla chomped out
What do you mean by this? Marius started the coup because he wanted to steal the high command of the mithridatic war from Sulla. Lucius Cornelius only marched on Rome after Marius had himself given the imperium over the war theather, including all the troops Sulla sweated blood to muster, and who were loyal to him personally and more than willing to march on Rome rather than being taken over by what they saw as a has been usurper.

>>2553223
why not not saying Sulla is an angel but Marius ruined everything

>>2552854
>How was Sulla not the bad guy?

Have you seen the state of the Roman republic by then, imbecile? The even literally cut off support to Roman citizens fighting a foreign enemy, just because Sulla was in command.

What do you want him to do, suck dicks and hope they listen?

Holy shit

>>2553392
Sulla could've just challenged the action like a civilized human instead of literally invading rome and placing a price on marius's head

>>2553788
>challenged the action like a civilized human
This after Marius raised a mob and tried to have it lynch Sulla on the step of the Senate? Dude.

>>2553007
Sulla was literally only in it for himself

>>2553808
I've only heard reports of Marius doing so after Sulla attacked him

>>2552854
>How was Sulla not the bad guy?

Does anybody even contest Sulla being the bad guy?

The Republic was already dead, Sulla and Marius just fought over the life support.

>>2553848
We're talking about the same mob he used to strip the command from the legitimate consul against the mos maiorum for no reason other than self aggrandizement. When exactly would Sulla have attacked Marius?

>>2552897
>the homosexual version of augustus
>?????????
so what is that? a turbofaggot? a gigagay? proto-homotranny? the ultimate gayforce?

>>2553849
this

He was the bad guy.
Hes just not documented as being so since the patricians are the ones doing the documenting.

>>2553902
Augustus was accused of fucking and getting fucked by Caesar.

When Sulla retired he did so with his wife and his lisping faggot actor boyfriend.

>>2553930
Difference being that Augustus' accusation was the bog standard political insult of the time, right about the same as calling someone racist/sexist/etc nowadays.
Whereas Sulla left Rome with a fucking parade of actors and prostitutes fucking and being fucked by him.
And his postumous "daughter" apparently looked like Lucullus.

>>2553007
>tried to save the Republic
Nothing noble about that. The Republic was dead as soon as Sulla set foot in Rome if not all the way back in the 140s BC when the two biggest foreign threats were completely wiped out leaving Rome with no other equal besides Parthia.