>Anarcho-Capitalism has never been tri-

>>2536375
Kowloon Walled City can also be said to have been anarcho-capitalist

Who /takeda/ here?

>>2536397
Takeda a shit

We /oda/ now

>>2536375
>mfw ancaps admits they are fedualists
Fucking finally

>>2536397
Kai

>>2536375
But each of these daimyo provinces ran a state that taxed people.

They also heavily controlled and regulated their internal markets, and were very much suspicious of any free flow of goods or people between them.

>>2536397
/shimazu/ will win with western trade

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>>2536411
kek

How ancap prevent somebody to become the local warlord restart history and ending up with communism.

>>2536375
Why was oda nobunaga so damn special

>>2536375
How did Date and Uesugi not just steamroll the rest of Japan? They own more land than any of their neighbors, land which would've consistently grown over time with invasions.

>>2536375
All of these were states that were just at war with one another. It's like claiming North Korea is ancap.

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>>2536849
Usegi were dealt with by the takeda who in turn we dealt with by the oda. The date clan took a long ass time to acquire their land

>>2536863
>Usegi were dealt with by the takeda
But the Takeda are much smaller.

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>>2536872
And oda nobunaga is the fool of Owari. What's your point?

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>>2536507
The end result of anarchy (which tends to quickly evolve into anarcho-capitalism) is usually feudalism without some kind of conscious effort to prevent it. A better example than Japan would probably be early medieval Europe.

Once the Roman state collapsed, people would fall under the protection of those who had the money and resources to protect them. In many cases, those protectors themselves found more powerful people to protect them as well. The thing is, when you're living in the domain of someone you know for a fact is much stronger than you, the landlord is going to become a governor, be it de factor or de jure.

That over time evolved into a more codified state, because it turns out vassals tend to want to have a better guarantee of their positions than just the word of their liege.

>pic related - long-term ancap

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>>2536872
>size is directly proportional to power

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>>2536397
>takedagooks

Daily reminder that YAMANA=YAMNAYA, the last remnant of ARYANS in Japan. Inaba is the sub-tropical PIE Urheimat.

>>2536881
Small countries don´t take over big countries.

>>2536905

From the thumbnail it seems like he is trying to take a bite off of a giant burrito.

>>2536905
>size isn't directly proportional to power

Explain China, Russia and the US then

>>2536974
Explain Israel, the U.K. or even the Mongols?

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>>2536936
Tell that to Oda nobunaga

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>>2536936
>Small countries don´t take over big countries

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>>2536974
China's been defeated by considerably smaller countries before, see >>2537007
Most of Russia and the US are sparsely-populated shit.

You clearly know jackshit about history, or how logistics and militaries work, and so have no ground to talk. If size automatically meant power, then Algeria and the DPRC would control all of fuckin Africa between them. Or Greenland would've conquered Iceland and the rest of the arctic circle.

>>2536950
Made me kek

>>2536936
GB, and oda clan
Have you not watched 'a brief history of Japan' with the HIRE A SAMURAI tingle

>>2536936
Anon

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>>2536397
>One of the greatest generals alive
>Pioneered the use of Japanese mounted samurai as heavy lancers instead of horse archers
>Bred superior horses, built a powerful network of alliance and power base in Kai
>Have literally everything going for you
>Die
>Your weak ass son gets bullied to death by Nobunaga and he kills himself
Shameful dispray

>>2538444
>Nobunaga
Man that Nobunaga fellow sure is kicking ass and taking names for a fool,

>>2537057
>Greenland would've conquered Iceland
It did though, that´s why Icelanders have such a large Inuit admixture

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>>2536936
>what is the entirety of the British empire
>mongol empire
>oda nobunaga
>china
>any colonial nation really, france, spain, portugal, netherlands, and etcetera

Are you ok anon? did the lobotomy fail?

People should be more rigorous with the use of the term "capitalism".

It means the private property of the means of production. If there isn't private property even as a concept, there can be no capitalism.

I don't know much about property rights in pre-modern Japan, but I'm going to guess they were not based on private property. If it was anything like medieval Europe, it was a confusion of cumulative land use rights.

>>2536974
Explain ottoman empire then.

>>2536397
>>2536408
>>2536476
>>2536512

how do i get into japanese game of thrones?

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>>2536375
what is it with ancaps and their unnatural love of children?

>>2539532
Video Games and Anime

Also books

>>2539559
It's a product of obsessing too much about the moral means of a society without considering the moral ends.

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Many of Japan's largest and oldest companies were started by samurai and other noble clans.

>>2538939

>"private property" is somehow distinct from "a confusion of cumulative land use rights"

m8, crack open any Property Law textbook from a common law jurisdiction and you probably won't make it 5 pages without reading about the "bundle of sticks" analogy

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>>2536397
Shimazu has superior tactics and superior gaijin weaponry.
Now witness the beauty of Jap pike&shot

>>2539741
Shimazu has got to be the biggest fuck ups. Everything was going so welll for them

>>2539631
>common law

Kek.


>>2536375
I would agree that Sengoku Jidai somewhat looked like what Anarchocapitalism would be BUT they were all fighting to control/restore the central state.

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someone should do a ancap mod for ck2

>>2539532
Total war shogun 2

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>>2539599
I was pretty confused when I saw a shimazu mon on a building in my countries capital, I wonder if the founder was actually related to the clan.

Shimazu, Oda, Takeda and the Date were the most based, impossible to contesr

>>2539532
A History of Japan to 1334
A History of Japan, 1334-1615
Both by George Samson. They are a little outdated, but still pretty great overall.

>>2540245
Civil law is fine for general easy to resolve disputes, cased based common law is going to get a better result 99/100 for cases with any nuance (eg all of contract law).

>>2536849
Its also worth noting that most of Date's land is just sparely inhabited hilly forest.

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>>2540516
>cased based common law is going to get a better result 99/100 for cases with any nuance (eg all of contract law)

Nah senpai thats not right. I had an american professor who tried to sell us that shit for a whole semester. In the end common law had as many or even more flaws than civil law. If you look at it from a biased perspective sure common law is the holy grail but if you assume a somewhat neutral position both systems have deep flaws.

Oh and tons of civil law systems are experiencing a trend where case based jurisdiction becomes more and more important.

>>2536872
The Takeda weren't much smaller. At their peak they controlled their home province of Kai plus all of Shinano, Suruga, almost all of Kōzuke and were moving towards Tottomi, Mikawa and Mino. They also held considerable influence in Higa and even Etchū.
Much at the same time, the Uesugi only controlled their home province of Echigo (which was indeed larger than Takeda's Kai) and almost all of Etchū. Their eventual expansion would come a couple of years after Shingen died but was eventually stopped once Kenshin died, the Oda led a fierce counter invasion and almost managed to get to Echigo (they stopped only because Nobunaga died really).

>>2540516
>Civil law is fine for general easy to resolve disputes, cased based common law is going to get a better result 99/100 for cases with any nuance (eg all of contract law).
I find that hard to believe and it seriously surprises me to see someone thinking that.

>>2540535
I agree to an extent, some systems are just straight up better codified (i.e criminal law) I just wasn't addressing it because it wasn't the subject in question.
Of course both systems have flaws both systems are created by humans, I still think common law is better for more nuanced cases because every party has more latitude for advocacy and that's coming from someone who works in criminal law.

>>2540553
Common contract law is literally the gold standard for contract construction and resolution and is arguably the basis of a functioning business sector.
Sorry but Napoleon and Justinian just can't compete

>>2540553
>I find that hard to believe and it seriously surprises me to see someone thinking that.

Same here. Contract law works just fine in civil law tbqh.

>>2540557
>I still think common law is better for more nuanced cases because every party has more latitude for advocacy

I honestly think you only have a vague idea of how contract issues are resolved in a civil law system. The civil law system i work with (Germany) is hellbent on making sure every the will of every party is accurately represented. Its just a different approach because we are not relying on advocacy as much as common law.

>>2540573
>literally the gold standard

WEW Murica and Bongland were the primary powers of their time and they enforced common law principles on international trade. Nothing to do with the quality of the law system.

>arguably the basis of a functioning business sector

Yeah true. Germany and Japan both have a nun functional broken business sector because they don't use common law.... ah wait no that is just bullshit you pulled out of your ass.

Why are you anglos always so full of yourself ?

>>2540595
>Trying to have a fit a proper conversation
>Continentals start shitting up the place
We could have been civil to each other man.

>hellbent on making sure every the will of every party is accurately represented
Yeah getting the best possible outcome for a client is just to hard better let papa judiciary do it for us.

>WEW Murica and Bongland were the primary powers of their time and they enforced common law principles on international trade.
Maybe if you guys didn't help the brits crush Napoleon it would of gone the other way.
Not the mention the EU has infected England with so much continental human rights bullshit it's practically non functioning, from a legal systems view Brexit can't come quick enough.

>Yeah true. Germany and Japan both have a nun functional broken business sector because they don't use common law....
Japan has to print fake money to give to its fake banks, while ensuring interest from inflation doesn't become bigger then it's GDP, probs not the best example.
Willing to concede Germany's doing great but its like 70/30 amazing work ethic and fiscal management/ Destroying Europe.

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>>2540631

>We could have been civil to each other man.

Thats really rich when reading the rest of your alt-right/Sargon of Akkad tier rant.

>Yeah getting the best possible outcome for a client is just to hard better let papa judiciary do it for us.

The law is no fucking contest. I prefer well educated judges that try to find somewhat reasonable solutions over your competitive approach thank you very much.

Call it my continental naivety but i honestly place some trust in the judicial branch. Maybe that's a side effect of living in a country where the administration actually works properly.

>Maybe if you guys didn't help the brits crush Napoleon it would of gone the other way.

Nope. GB had the golden geographical position. True hegemony also really needs dominance over the naval trade routes.

>Not the mention the EU has infected England with so much continental human rights bullshit it's practically non functioning, from a legal systems view Brexit can't come quick enough.

Please save your brexit bullshit. I honestly had the impression that you brexit shills would keep it on the down low after the utter embarrassment brexit has been so far.

>Japan has to print fake money to give to its fake banks, while ensuring interest from inflation doesn't become bigger then it's GDP, probs not the best example.

Because GB and the US are shining examples of a healthy economy or a well regulated and healthy banking sector. Especially the USA are in no dire straits fiscally.

>Willing to concede Germany's doing great but its like 70/30 amazing work ethic and fiscal management/ Destroying Europe.

Wait just let me pull up some made up numbers out of my ass so that i can distract from the fact that my initial statement was garbage.

What about the Netherlands, Switzerland or Luxembourg? Healthy and well of business sectors, 2 of them fucking banking hubs despite their business killing civil law.

>>2536849
Firstly, this map is grossly simplified. There were a lot more warlords running around than the map indicates, and a lot of the land shown took a long time for each clan to properly consolidate (also some of its just wrong)

On the Uesugi, they was divided between a number of branches of the family that were often feuding and vying for control. On the Date, North Japan is basically a whole crapton of nothing of value.

>>2536375
Anarcho Capitalism and feudalism are structurally completely different.

Feudalism is a natural progression:
>From the chaos of nature comes honour.
>Honour creates social hierarchy
>Hierarchy leads to nobility
>Nobility, having the same honourable obligation as a farmer, lives justified in peace and happiness.

The obligation of each party to work for eachother isn't seen as a cognitive mutual benefit (economic interest); it's a sociological mutual benefit (Honour) and is internalized. The feudal lord works to benefit the peasant.

Skip to 2017
>Everyone has capitalist mindset
>There are no walls or borders
>Countries literally want to be invaded for economic benefit.

The structure is completely different. There is no possible way to compare.

>>2540790
>invaded
An invasion is a hostile marching in of military units.
This does not apply to modern countries.

Avoid using terms that don't apply.

>>2540718
>The law is no fucking contest. I prefer well educated judges
1. Yes it is, the whole point is dispute resolution.
2. The argument that Common law judges are any more or less educated then civil law ones is at best onerous and in my opinion unsubstantiated conjecture.

>Please save your brexit bullshit.
That wasn't alt right shilling, I know this is 4chan but I am a legal professional with a real job I have more pressing work then crying on /pol/ all day.
Ask any jurisprudence/legal history scholar about the impact Brussels has had on UK law and they will all tell human rights law has basically killed it. The brexit thing was a joke and a quote from my boss.

>Because GB and the US are shining examples of a healthy economy or a well regulated and healthy banking sector.
Good thing I'm not from either of those countries and there are other common law jurisdictions, not to mention that's not a defence by rebuttal.

>2 of them fucking banking hubs despite their business killing civil law
As someone who comes from a tax haven I can tell you that's 100% a legislative result, the legal system in place is largely irrelevant.

>>2540859
Civil law is already adjusting to elements of common law to limit misunderstandings, the root of the problems in civil law with business come from old canonical law, and they may be adjusted after the whole fiasco from 08'. obligations of good faith right?
Also the whole Brussels law fucking with UK law is partially Britain's own fault because of their system, having to adjust their law every EU treaty rather than directly applying it.

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Bow down all you petty, kirishitan boot-licking pipsqueaks. We booted the mongols out of Kyūshū for you.

>>2541026
Those Hojo were kill by then, the Hojo during the Sengoku were imposters

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>>2541026

>>2540859
>Dispute resolution must be competition.

No there are tons of other ways. Meditation for example or letting a qualified person decide on the Basis of laws the people agreed on.

>100% a legislative result, the system in place is largely irrelevant

Pretty much disproves your statement that common law is necessary for healthy Business.


Building on what >>2540887 said:

Of course is EU-legislation fucking up the legal system in GB. Its meant to be realized by the individual Civil law systems of europe. And even that is quite difficult. A common law System is going to have even more problems there.

>>2541087
I'm the other guy, the problem with britain specifically is that EU law needs to be worked into their already existing sources of law rather than being a source of law on its own

>>2541120
Or at least, it's a problem with britain specifically

>>2541120
Well that makes it even more messy.

I am honestly in favour of GB leaving though. Its Bad for them and good for europe.

I wanna know more about pic related. Anyone got anything they wanna recommend me?

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>>2539532
Samurai Warriors

>>2536842
>Wait wait
>Okay but what if
>We made the spears longer??

Za abso rute maddo-mandesu

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>>2536397
Fuck off, /ikkō-ikki/ here.

DAIMYOS GET OUT

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>I played Shogun 2 so I am an expert on the Sengoku Jidai

>>2536375
But that was feudalism

>>2542069
>warrior monk faggot
T. Oda Nobunaga

>>2542835
I have over 200 hours combined in Nobunaga's Ambition and Sengoku Rance, as well as a platinum in Samurai Warriors 4 Empires and currently working on Nioh, so I would say that I am quite qualified to discuss Japanese History.

>>2540496
I read this in my head as "She Mad Zoo"

What's wrong with me?

>>2536527
maniacarry*?

>>2536375
>Constant violation of private property
>Local oligarchs control large chunks of equally poor peasants
Looks more like the Soviet Union

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How did the defenders of Japanese castles deal with fire? I know it was a common aspect of siege and Oda Nobunaga used it, but with such a large portion of the structures being composed of wood I don't understand how it wasn't the primary focus of Japanese siegecraft. Was there a particularly effective way of combating it?

aren't zaibatsu corps basically sengoku period clans?

>>2536375
>no separate Tokugawa clan

I hope you get defeated during realm divide.

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>>2540194
It's ok, they make the ultimate comeback.

>>2543799
It was one of the most common siege methods. Obviously the defenders wouldn't stand by while you started a fire.

>>2543828

THE TOKUGAWA WERE A DYNASTY OF OPPORTUNISTIC TYRANICAL COWARDS.

THE IMPERIALIST FORCES WERE THE TRUE NATIONALIST HEROIC FORCES, WHICH DUE TO THEIR NAIVE NOBILITY, WERE FOOLED AND BETRAYED BY THEIR OWN LEADERS FOR WHOM THEY HAD STRUGGLED.

>>2543818
Basically, though they were nationalized and dissolved a lot during and are no longer organized like they were back then. Nowadays the bigger ones that survived are pretty much just business groups of companies who share names and shareholders to varying extents and have some relationships between one another. Mitsubishi for example is composed of several fully-autonomous companies organized similarly to western corporations who simply share name and branding and often work together in business endeavours.

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>>2541026
Did somebody say Christian?

>>2540808
b-but white people fucking with condoms is LITERALLY white genocide!! xDDD

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>>2539582
>ends
>holding moral weight
>consequentialism not just devolving into shallow egoism of what ends are desirable to your self-interest

literally laughing @ u

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>>2536408
my brethren

>>2544585
Oda might shall unite Japan

>>2536902
Could you point out the disavantages of feudalism? To me it seems a lot better than democracy.
I rather Monarchy over democracy, and in the case of anarcho-capitalism I don't see how monopolies could be reprimended.

>>2546086
It would be great if you were a noble. It would be shit if you were a serf

>>2540790
>Countries literally want to be invaded for economic benefit.
Free immigration or forced integration provides no benefits to the economy since the immigrants are granted welfare just like the local citizens, also they mostly come without being invited by a person or a company.

>>2546093
If you were a peasant how much of your production would you have to give to your lord? About 10%?
That's a lot better than up to 60% of taxes we currently have.

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>>2536842
*BLOCKS YOUR PATH*

>>2546101
>Implying Kings and Monarchs don't have absolute power to seize everything you own on a whim
>Implying that hasn't always happened in such regimes
>Shitting on democratic protections of property and rights
>muh taxes, the state is stealing from me!

>>2546086
The problem with feudalism for the average person is that it tends to turn your landlord into your king. On the state-level, it produces a horrifically inefficient decentralized state that is far too susceptible to the whims of vassals that get their positions from heredity rather than merit. Long term, you end up with a very legalistic system forced upon the state, hamstringing everything they try to do to protect the rights of vassals (but not the common man).

>>2540411
But anon, ck2 is already ancap

>>2546107
Okehazamae'd

>>2536842
He armed the peasantry and alienated the samurai cast by elevating peasants above their station. He basically was bringing European style warfare to Japan with a lot of what he did, he was also on the track to winning the whole war until he was betrayed.

>>2536386
more so run by gangs and mafias, which I guess is what would happen if you really left people to their devices.

t. Hong Konger

>>2543861
t. traitor hideyoshi supporting clan

>>2546095
>immigrants are granted welfare just like the local citizens, also they mostly come without being invited by a person or a company.
You're contradicting yourself. Illegal immigrants have no access to welfare.

Immigrants are either legally invited (for whatever reason) or a net economical gain for the system given that they pay taxes and reap close to no benefits.

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Be honest. Would he have put an end to the damn wars?

>>2548923
But at what cost?

>>2548938
Honor

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>>2548959
What a shame.

>>2548922
>You're contradicting yourself. Illegal immigrants have no access to welfare.
Where did I say "illegal immigrants"?
>Immigrants are either legally invited (for whatever reason)
Generally not invited by local citizens nor by companies. Mass immigration is caused by allowance or invitation by the government.
>a net economical gain for the system given that they pay taxes and reap close to no benefits.
Immigrants without special skills or high degree of education are a burden to the state. In this case they take out low level jobs out of uneducated local citizens.

>>2549463
>Generally not invited by local citizens nor by companies. Mass immigration is caused by allowance or invitation by the government.
Lol Who do you think create the demand of cheap labour and wants to undercut local workers?

The capitalists

>>2549463
>Mass immigration is caused by allowance or invitation by the government.
This is true to an extent. While companies don't invite people unskilled workers specifically, some (like construction companies) welcome them with open arms due to the low wages they're able to pay them, and may lobby the government to accept more of them.

>In this case they take out low level jobs out of uneducated local citizens.
This is bull. Citizens of developed countries wouldn't work for the low wages unskilled immigrants are willing to work for, and companies aren't willing to pay more. Less people who accept low wages mean less people that are employed (at higher wages) which means less man hours of work done (i.e. less construction, less manufacturing, etc.). Whether more work done is better for the economy or not, or better for the people or not, is neither here nor there.

This is not to say that I support immigration, it's just that the arguments spread around here are often wrong and misleading. I personally oppose immigration on the grounds that it tends to cement an oligarchy at the expense of a middle class while creating immigrant ghettos. Funnily enough, conservatives tend to oppose immigration while at the same time being perfectly fine with the idea of an oligarchy and defending any sort of attempts at reduce its power.

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>>2536411

>>2536835
How communist prevent somebody to become local individualist restart history and ending up with capitalism

>>2549482
>implying that in socialist/ex-socialist countries the wage is higher than in pseudocapitalist countries

>>2549506
>Citizens of developed countries wouldn't work for the low wages unskilled immigrants are willing to work for, and companies aren't willing to pay more.
Bullshit. Even in a nation with a high rate of immigrants the majority of the citizens with low level education work in these jobs. Because that's the only kind of job they can work on. In the end the low skilled immigrants take out of them these jobs.
>I personally oppose immigration on the grounds that it tends to cement an oligarchy at the expense of a middle class while creating immigrant ghettos. Funnily enough, conservatives tend to oppose immigration while at the same time being perfectly fine with the idea of an oligarchy and defending any sort of attempts at reduce its power.
This oligarchy you talk about build factories overseas in countries where the wage is lesser.

>>2551056
Wrong

>>2542069
my man
>1522
>not being saved by the Amida

>>2536411
good job

>>2541850
If anyone is interested, a ps2 game called Nobunagas Ambition is incredibly fun and somewhat analytical. Fun to get into to

>>2554050
Pc

>>2556037
Just emulate it you doofus.

>>2556037
There are like 20 Nobunagas Ambition games and several are made for PC, and if you want the porn version play Sengoku Rance

>>2536913
>Native Aryan Japanese Daimyo, during the Hyperborean period, Battle of Thule, FinnoKorean hyper war (colourised)