>mfw Cathocucks trying to reach salvation through works

>>2535292
t. Protestant """"""""""""""""""""""""Christian""""""""""""""""""""""""

M-MUH SCRIPTURA

>>2535395
Go back to your cult of saints.

>>2535404
Yeah, who even thinks the Bible is the word of God LMAO

>>2535412
Are you actually making fun of people for believing in your god wrong ?
fuckin hell, goddamn religifags

Honestly despite all this shit Luther receives here, he's probably one of the best theologians I've ever read.

He throughly refutes the strawman that Protestants believe one can achieve salvation, despite being an evil person, by just having faith. One cannot have faith if they've committed evil acts; and the Catholic definition of "good works" is so broad, it includes assisting the earthly mission of the church as a repentance for an unrelated sin.

He also shows all Christians have a stake in their church, and a responsibility to know their scripture and theology from first hand study. Not just accept an attitude of "leave it to the experts", then act shock once it turns out they've fallen short because no one was watching them.

He settled on scripture being the bedrock of the church, instead of just saying it was the product of tradition.

He's easily the superior of Augustine, and almost as good as Aquinas.

>>2535636
He kinda sperged out with Zwingli though

>>2535636
I've been arguing that the entire thing is pure symantics for quite a while, glad to know even Luther had the same thought, though for some reason felt compelled to bring it up as a difference.

Catholics believe that a person requires both faith and works to attain holiness. Faith alone is insufficient, and works are meaningless if done without faith. Protestants say faith alone saves, except that if one doesn't do good works and live a holy life, then they obviously don't have faith in the lord. It feels like it's entirely the same end result for both with slightly different emphasis placed on why.

Daily reminder Luther loved the Virgin Mary, thought veneration of her should continue and prayed the rosary often.

He'd be disgusted knowing what Protestantism has become.

>>2536161
You can see how protestants run a slippery slope when it comes to self betterment while Catholics require self betterment. And bare in mind "betterment" doesn't extroverted mean outsocial work. It could be introverted like asceticism.

>>2535797
How so?
>>2536161
He still felt the Catholic Church was derailing salvation by excluding the (even educated) laity from theological debate, using broad interpretations of the Bible to justify self-serving forms of laity repentance; and feeling like it had power to determine how secular states should conduct government, while rejecting any idea of the state resist the influence and power of the church through any system of checks and balances, despite God also anointing the Christian nobility to rule at their respective posts.

He truly felt that the Catholic church had become despicable.

>>2536161
Justification is the article upon which the church stands or falls

>>2536214
>He truly felt that the Catholic church had become despicable.
It had become corrupt. Even from a Catholic perspective his rebellion kickstarted the catholic restoration which preserved the church for another several centuries. Luther can be regarded as a necessary evil. Although I'd personally take his changes in a much different direction.

>>2536191
>thought veneration of her should continue
That's false though, he opposed veneration

>>2536255
Praying the rosary is veneration. He obvious was a hypocrite than as if what you say is true he would have been venerating her while advising not to.

>>2536265
He prayed the parts of the rosary which were not to Mary. He didn't pray to Mary anymore.

>>2536246
He would still feel that the church is despicable. Primarily because of the church excluding the educated laity from theological debate, despite their souls also being at stake.

He would also detest the idea that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit, and is infallible in matters of faith; thus allowing him to establish new religious traditions on equal footing of importance as scripture, which Catholics claim is merely a product of tradition itself.

>>2535412
>Yeah, who even thinks the Bible is the word of God LMAO
The Bible is the word of man, but has been approved of by the Holy Spirit as "good enough" for transmitting the path to salvation.

>>2535636
Yes, he's a Catholic friar, and has Catholic ideologies.

I can't believe you studied the man very seriously if you are not aware of that simple fact.

Nor can your "study" of scripture be very deep:

Ephesians 2
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Romans 10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

>>2536364
All those who have faith are justified, all those who are justified are sanctified, all those who are sanctified have works
What part of this do you not understand?

>>2536383
The part where you added "all those who are sanctified have works" that is not in the bible.

>>2536388
James 2:14-26

>>2536383

You're basically a pharisee who thinks your works can impress God.

You haven't thought it through very much.

What do your great works do for God again?

>>2536396
Not an argument

>>2536394
You can explain that if you'd like.

Then you can explain why you're using that text in the context of salvation.

Then you can explain why you want to be Judaized by James instead of saved by Jesus.

Bonus points for realizing that James never thought, nor cared, that Gentiles could be saved, and merely told Paul that Gentiles could go to the synagogue to learn of the Law of Moses, if they were interested in the things of God.

Jesus' half brother was an unbelieving asshole; Jesus did not even trust him to take care of their mother.

Why he's the linchpin for your absurd salvation by works mantra is ponderous.

>>2536400
Just the truth.

Ever notice Jesus just lays out the truth, and moves on?

>>2536279
The rosary is overwhelmingly to the Vrigin Mary. You can't pray "just the parts" that aren't to Mary.

>>2536396
Pharisees didn't think works would impress God, they thought autistically following 613 commandments to the letter while being hypocritical when it comes to love, mercy and God is how you got into heaven.

If anything protestants with their "sola scruptura" are closest to pharisism.

>>2536402
>Then you can explain why you're using that text in the context of salvation
Verse 14 says "Can that faith save him?"
>Judaized by James
Is the Epistle of James inspired scripture?
>James never thought, nor cared, that Gentiles could be saved, and merely told Paul that Gentiles could go to the synagogue to learn of the Law of Moses, if they were interested in the things of God
Have you ever read Acts 15?
>salvation by works
Salvation is by grace, not of works, lest any man should boast.

>>2536406
It pre-existed Mary by 2000 years.

>>2536402
I thought the bible was the word of God?

>>2536417
Yes, they thought that by keeping the Law, they were righteous in the eyes of God.

Jesus told them they failed.

They murdered him, proving he was correct.

>>2536406
It has prayers that do not even mention Mary
>>2536417
>they thought autistically following 613 commandments to the letter while being hypocritical when it comes to love, mercy and God is how you got into heaven.
No, that is not at all what they thought.
>If anything protestants with their "sola scruptura" are closest to pharisism
Pharisaism directly contradicts sola scriptura

>>2536419
>Verse 14 says "Can that faith save him?"

A faith that does not have works flowing through love is a COUNTERFEIT faith, and will not save a man, no.

James and Paul are not using "faith" in the same manner. Paul uses "faith" as "saving faith in Christ Jesus", where James uses "faith" as "faith in anything".

Your argument with James is faith without works is dead.

My point is that salvation is by grace, and it is a gift.

Not the wages of work. My paycheck is not a gift to me. I earned it. It's mine.

You demonstrate my point, not yours.

>>2536431
But it involves meditating on Mary's life and 14-164 prayers to Mary. And that's just the modern version. The old version had even more.

Luther prayed to Mary, loved Mary and wanted Virgin Mary veneration to continue. This is documented.

>>2536425
It is. Your understanding of it is shallow and pedantic.

>>2536431
>No, that is not at all what they thought.
That's exactly what they thought. But if you have any reason to think otherwise spit it out.

>>2536431
Pharisees followed Judaism by works.

Catholics follow (nothing) by works they merely practice idolatry and other pagan rites and rituals that predate Roman Catholicism by 2000 years.

>>2536439
>A faith that does not have works flowing through love is a COUNTERFEIT faith, and will not save a man, no.
So, in other words, all those who are sanctified have works?
>You demonstrate my point, not yours
I said this >>2536383

>>2536440
As is Luther's status as a lost and virulently anti-semetic Catholic friar.

>>2536448
>lost
Do not think to know the hearts of men
>anti-semetic
Completely irrelevant to his standing before God
>Catholic friar
Not for long he wasn't

>>2536447
No, all who are sanctified are PREPARED for good works; they do not HAVE them.

Stick to the bible.

2 Timothy 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

>>2536457
So then this >>2536439
>A faith that does not have works flowing through love is a COUNTERFEIT faith, and will not save a man
Is wrong?

>>2536453
You can judge people by their fruits.

No Luther, no Hitler.

Jesus is a Jew; Martin Luther hates Jews. Directly has something to do with the lost nature of all anti-semetic catholics, Luther in particular. Perhaps you never read the vile "On the Jews and Their Lies". It's quoted half a dozen times in Mein Kampf.

>>2536464

A REAL faith can produce NO WORKS AT ALL, yet still save a man because salvation is by GRACE and is a GIFT of GOD.

Imagine me poking you in the sternum as hard as I can at each capitalized word.

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22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass.
24 For he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was.
25 But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty, and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.

>>2536480
Knowing an out loud confession that Jesus is Lord, and knowing that you must believe in your heart God raised him from the dead is just knowledge. Not salvation.

Saying out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believing in your heart God raised him from the dead is salvation.

The gap between knowing and doing is infinite.

>>2536468
>Jesus is a Jew
Jesus was a Christian who was opposed to the sect which would give birth to rabbinical Judaism (pharisaism).

>>2536484
8 A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways.

>>2536485
Seed of Abraham.
Root of David.
Lion of the Tribe of Judah.
King of the Jews.

Which of those indicate Jesus is not a Jew?

Is Buddha a buddhist?

>>2536486
Yes, you cannot half ass work out your spiritual life and half ass try to build a secular life or you will get nowhere with either.

Anyone could have told you that.

>>2536468
>No Luther, no Hitler.
Is your righteousness any better?
>Directly has something to do with the lost nature of all anti-semetic catholics
The Jews are Christkillers and the enemies of God, they are loathsome in His sight.
>>2536477
So yes, that was wrong? Was James wrong?

>>2536490
>Is Buddha a buddhist?
Of course he is. He laid out the path of Buddhism for his followers. He wasn't a Hindu. Same with Jesus. He wasn't a Jew. He was a Christian.


As for those titles, Christian's believe they never were exclusively for Hebrew people OR that they were only for a little while to prepare the way for God's son Jesus Christ.

Spiritually I'm just as much a decendent of Abraham as some rabbi.

>>2536504
My righteousness is infinitely better than Luther's or Hitler's, as it is Jesus' righteousness imputed to me.

You hate Jews, which ironically will have you spending eternity with the worst Jews in hell.

>>2536519
No, Buddha is not a buddhist and Jesus is not a Christian.

Buddha is the teacher buddhists follow, and Jesus is the God Christians are brothers, sisters, and mothers to.

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@2535636
>He's easily the superior of Augustine

You don't deserve a (You)

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>It's a "butthurt Catholics justify their corruption" thread

Go practice simony somewhere else

>>2536546
And necromancy, and idolatry, and magic, and paganism in general.

>>2536532
>My righteousness is infinitely better than Luther's or Hitler's, as it is Jesus' righteousness imputed to me
And Luther had this righteousness too. If Hitler repented at the end, he too will be saved.
>You hate Jews
I do not
>which ironically will have you spending eternity with the worst Jews in hell
Heed the Lord's warning in Matthew 7:1-2 or you will join your precious Christkillers

>>2536552
Not by the fruits of his labor he did not. Neither did Hitler repent; if you haven't noticed, antichrist rulers do not repent at the end.

>>2536552

I will never be in hell with you because I know something you do not know.

Nobody killed Jesus.

>>2536538
>Buddha is not a buddhist
What? First of "Buddha" is a title. Similar to the fact that Christ is a title. Of course Siddhartha is a Buddhist. He's the original Buddhist. Siddhartha practiced what he preached just as Christ practiced what he preached.

>>2536552
Well do you represent Peter, called Satan, when he told Jesus not to go to Jerusalem to die.

Well are you satan's child.

>>2536563
He cannot be a buddhist because he invented the religion. Buddhists are people who generally follow his teachings.

Is English your first language?

>>2536562
>>2536565
Was the murder of Jesus a sin?

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>>2536546
Got it backwards m8

>>2536572

You have to split "murder in their hearts" which was one of their many sins and the cause of their blood libel for a few generations with the impossibility of murdering Jesus.

>>2536573
As in all things Catholic, no, the Catholic got everything backwards.

>>2536574
Do you think the death of our Lord was a suicide?

>>2536576
History says otherwise.

>>2536579
Yes.

>>2536581
Jesuit history, perhaps.

>>2536583
That's blasphemy. Jesus was not a sinner.

>>2536579
Except I have no evidence he is your Lord.

>>2536584
All history except the delusional revisions of Protestants.

>>2536570
>He cannot be a buddhist because he invented the religion
Was John smith a Mormon? Was Abraham a Jew? Was muhamed a Muslim? Answer all.

>>2536573
>you got it all backwards
>Those child molestations and church corruption never happened

This is good bread lads, keep it going.

>>2536633
>Protestants have a worse record of sex abuse

Might want to try a different argument buddy.

>>2536639
>>Protestants have a worse record of sex abuse
>[citation needed]

>>2536639
No pope covered it up
>>2536589
He is

>>2536586
And neither was his laying down his life as payment for humanity's sins a sin.

He came to die. If you want to call that "suicide", there's no way around it. Jesus did not die until he released his spirit, and had Jesus wanted to, he would still be on that cross today.

Nobody kills God.

>>2536590
So only Jesuit history.

>>2536652

https://www.christiancentury.org/article/2013-10/evangelicals-worse-catholics-sexual-abuse

>>2536653

One man's crime doesn't implicate the whole church.

>>2536602
I don't know any John Smith, but Joe Smith was not a Mormon, no. Abraham was not a Jew, no. Mohammad was not a muslim, no.

Seriously, what is your primary language?

>>2536653
Please feel free to share your Christian testimony here, on how you became a born again Christian.

>>2536653
>No pope covered it up

No, they just cover it up themselves.

>>2536660
Nobody is worse than the Catholics; they don't even turn over their pedophiles to the police. They hide them.

>>2536660
>One man's crime doesn't implicate the whole church
The pope is the church

>>2536664
No.

>>2536666
>Nobody is worse than the Catholics

Except the Protestants.

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>>2536660
>Liberty University law professor and grandson of Billy Graham has told reporters that he thinks evangelicals are worse than Catholics
>he thinks
>Source: Mea anus

>>2536673
Reality agrees.

Sorry you love Satan.

Faith without works is dead. James 2:26

>>2536669
I suspect you know it is not the testimony of a Christian, but then you and I both know you're not a Christian at all, don't we.

Matthew 25
“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

>>2536681
Justification is by faith alone but not a faith that is alone

>>2536670
Nobody. Not even satan worshipers.

>>2536681
Get saved first. Protip: It has nothing to do with your works under the Law.

>>2536683
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

>>2536684

Christ preached repentance. Christ never said "Go and continue living your wicked and adulterous life and I will grant you salvation anyway."

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

BUT BUT ALL I HAVE TO DO IS SAY I'M SAVED!!! RIGHT GUYS??

>>2536697
Right, because as I just said, a lone faith is not a saving faith.

>>2536691
What absolute rubbish.

1 Peter 3
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.

>>2536701
>And such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified and you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

>>2536707
>What absolute rubbish.
Do you know who said that "rubbish"?

>>2536713
The person dodging the question "how did you become a Christian?"

That's the person hiding behind this verse. I suspect it is you.

It is their rubbish I am calling out by their inadequacy and unpreparedness to give reason for their hope, that Jesus is their Lord.

Something a Christian does not find onerous.

As to the Matthew passage, that would be in play between me and a Christian brother, not me and you.

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>mfw there Lutherans literally and openly prayed for Turkish victory in the Great Turkish War

>>2536779
*the Lutherans

>>2536779
>Supporting child rapists, homosexuals, and heretics over Turks

>>2536685
Except Protestants.

>>2536985
Good thing they all died 500 years ago. Would that they would have taken all of the rest of the Catholics down with them into hellfire.

>>2537014
>All protestants died 500 years ago

Anon are you okay

>>2537025
Are you suggesting Martin Luther and his company are still alive, after 500 years?

Do you have any evidence to support this idiotic notion?

>>2537036
>Implying there were no more Protestants after Luther
>Implying Protestant churches don't exist today inhabited by modern day Protestants

Oh, you're one of those "real Christians have always existed and all the churches are satanic, only me and my bumblefuck congregation run by pastor Cletus remain the real Christians" types.

Gotcha.

Disregarded.

>>2537054
Yes, I speak the truth, and you hate it.

The Waldenses practiced Christianity from 149 AD to their eventual slaughter at the hands of Catholics.

There have obviously been Christians continuously since Pentecost 32 AD who never bent the knee to Rome nor were murdered by Rome.

>>2537054
>You're who we say you are, even if you disagree with us, because we have satan on our side and are led by the false prophet of mystery babylon!

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>>2537063
>Waldenses
>149 AD