What is his endgame?

>>2534208

1. To take as many people down with him as possible.
2. He thinks he knows one of God's weaknesses and plans to exploit it at the Battle of Armageddon.

>>2534208
Being a whiny bitch

god

>>2534208
To free the people from the wrath of their creator.

>>2534208
What the fuck was his problem?

>>2534208
he just wanted to give freedom of opinion/acts to the humankind

>>2536007
Bud, he fell before the creation of man.

If Satan really cared about opposing God he would reward the unbelievers, not punish them.

So if hell is hell and if Satan fell, we must deduce that he's trying to return to god's good side through his actions.

>>2534208
To hurt God as much as he can by hurting as many people as much as he can.

>>2536007
He is a liar, and a thief, and a murderer, from the beginning.

He lied to Eve, stole the earth from Adam, and murdered both of them.

To retake the kingdom of heaven even though he knows its impossible. he is to prideful to admit he cant

In Paradise Lost-to be King of the Universe.

Milton's Satan is his anti-royalist sentiment incarnate, and thinks that God just happens to be in power and can be overthrown. He's wrong, but he didn't realize that.

>>2534208
Does satan actually enjoy it in hell? How could god fuck up so hard he makes an angel that revels in enternal torment without a hope of redemption?

>>2538506
If we are to believe the Koran, Satan may yet still exist and have yet to be turned to hell. He is creating mischief in some form or another here on God's creation either on the creation, or in the hell.

The existence of hell leads me to believe that it may have been self-created or exists as an alternate reality in the future where 100% doubt exists. So it's kind of figurative but not really because I'm positive physical torture happens.

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>>2538506
Traditionally, Satan isn't a particularly important figure, and he's not depicted as powerful, to the point where he's often portrayed as comically inept and pathetic.

Protestantism has essentially become some weird Dualism where Satan is basically an Evil God.

In Folk Catholicism, he was basically, at his best, the big bad inmate who runs the prison on the inside, but is still locked up.

In proper Catholicism, he's hardly mentioned contemporaneously

>>2538506
>How could god fuck up so hard he makes an angel that revels in enternal torment without a hope of redemption?

He doesn't. Satan hates the fact that because of his form and creation, that of being an angel, he was given one choice, obey or be cast out, and one alone. He the fact that the Lord God deigned to give humanity the ultimate gift of being given new choice after new choice to obey and love the Lord. Satan and his demons, in their jealousy of man's ability to choose time and again, seek to bring down all men into torment with them as a final act of spite against their Creator.

It's pretty instructive to compare Milton's (Protestant) Satan with Dante's (Catholic) Satan. Dante's Satan is very different than Milton's.

>>2539018
>"choose" god or you suffer eternal torment
Doesn't sound like much of a choice to me. Can Christcucks pls exblain this one?

>>2537937
>If Satan really cared about opposing God he would reward the unbelievers, not punish them.
He doesn't punish them. That only happens in cartoons.

>>2537937

satan is the most damned prisoner of hell, not its ruler.

>>2539118
Sure.

You get to choose to to do what Yahweh says.

Or you go to hell.

This isn't hard to understand m8. Islam makes it even simpler, because you don't even get a choice as you get tortured/brainwashed into being a good Muslim at the end of days.

>>2538533
>where 100% doubt exists
Christianity didn't even exist 10.000 years ago

>>2539142
Those three religions are all very similar. It's what made me consider the validity of Islam in the first place. I mean, really, the world is opening up, a chasm is widening, between the believers and the non-believers.

>>2539153
Neither did the world, most likely.

>>2539165
Well good thing you're objectively wrong.

>>2539188
Where is the objective evidence? You have none.

>>2537964

isnt it pretty much accepted by biblical scholars that the serpent and the devil are two different individuals?

>>2539125
>>2539134
See >>2538540
The artists were not inspired by comics. But Satan wears a crown and he and other demons torture the dammed souls.

Very interesting discussion guys. Might i interject with an inquiry as to where the Antichrist (alla' the omen/Damien) fits into all this? Or is he/it a meme?

>>2540353
The Catholics generally believe the apocalypse will happen in metaphor while protestants tend to side with literalism

>>2540353
The Anti-christ is mostly a meme perpetuated by Hollywood. Originally it just meant someone opposed to Christ, Hollywood turned it into the Devils child. Someone who knows more than me can probably elaborated.

>>2539592
No. Shut up now.

>>2539592
yes you are correct.
>>2540995 is probably very happy with how his world is shaped from his limited interpretation of sacred texts and wants other people to stick in the same pool of ignorance.

>>2534208
Let me set this straight:

1) Lucifer is not Satan as far as comparative religious studies goes.
2) Lucifer has been equated to Satan as a Fallen Angel via: folk faith, christian-pagan syncretism and plain bad translation of the Bible.
3) Lucifer as a concept / etymologically speaking equates more to Venus/ Hesperus, and Roman pagan gods.
4) Satan is hebrew in origin and is tied to Fallen Angels only lately by Islam fanfiction in the Quran.
5) Only places where you have fallen angels in the "Romantic" sens are in Jewish Apocrypha (book of enoh for example)

6) Today, the way people understand Lucifer and Satan are more indebted to bible-fan-fictions such as Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, alongside Romanticism's "modern" myths rather than straight up theological sources.

>>2534208
a good harvest.
tho don't look for any reason or logic or any info at all in the bible. try other sources.

>>2541118
Steiner?

>>2538493
GOD cannot be overthrown
But your petty demiurge can

>>2540353
I was raised in a Baptist church. I am not a Christian though but I know the Bible.

I have one piece of advice for you, if a person comes into power over the whole world and wants people to take a "mark" on their hands or head DONT DO IT.

>>2541051
>gods.
>4) Satan is hebrew in origin and is tied to Fallen Angels only lately by Islam fanfiction in the Quran.

Except Satan isn't an Angel in the Quran, you fucking retarded piece of shit.

>AGE OF DECEIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjmFm8PIz8M
>The Choice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-SzIJngWqE
>Noah - The Truth is Bigger Than You Thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktmmd7YnD8
>Dualism / Gnosticism / Satanism explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUkiBz9rYEs

Or watch Bill Cooper's "Mystery Babylon" podcast.

Lucifer/Satan wanted to overthrow God, but couldn't.
So now his plan was to ruin God's creation through the Fall.
Satan makes people believe that we can become gods ourselves, that we don't need a savior or redeemer.
Satan is behind every false religion and demonic doctrine.

>>2540989
(1/2)
"The" Antichrist, as understood by Hollywood, is based on the apperance of three (arguably four) characters in Revelation. You have the Dragon, also known as the Ancient Serpent, who is simultaneously the main adversary to the armies of Heaven and a reference to either the Edenic serpent or Leviathan. And since in popular understanding, Edenic serpent = Lucifer = Satan, the Dragon is Satan. In addition to opposing the forces of Heaven, the Dragon gives power and authority over the earth to the Beast from the Sea, who is presented as having a mortal wound on one of his heads but lives anyway. The world is amazed by this Sea Beast, who survived death and appears to save them from the torment they're experiencing due to God's wrath. The third is the Beast from the Land, or the False Prophet. The Land Beast instructs the world to worship the Sea Beast and his image, and also provides signs and wonders. This is where the whole Mark of the Beast thing also comes in, where you must swear allegiance to worshiping the Sea Beast if you want to buy or sell.

If you squint, what we have here is an inverse Trinity. There's the Dragon, Satan, who is the "God of This World" and was always thought of as a sort of Anti-God. Then you have the Sea Beast, the "son" f the Dragon who saves people from their torment at Yahweh's hand and survived a mortal wound. He's a pretty clear inverse Christ, or "Anti"-Christ, and since that term already existed in the Bible and is catchier than Beast from the Sea it caught on. Then you have the False Prophet, who forces each individual to worship the Sea Beast and causes eternal damnation, in much the same way the Holy Spirit medates belief in Christ and causes eternal salvation. Divorced from whatever John of Patmos' original intent was, the idea of an inverse trinity and "the" Anti-Christ was too juicy to ignore, and from that we get the modern understanding.

>>2541461
(2/2)
But just as nobody really does anything with the Holy Spirit, nobody ever really does anything with the False Prophet. Even when someone uses the term The Beast instead of The Antichrist, they're almost always referring to the Sea Beast and not the Land Beast. Most stories limit themselves to God the Father and his son Christ, and on the inverse side most stories limit themselves to Anti-God and his "son" the Antichrist.

>>2541051
Actually my friend you're off on a few points;

Satan and Devil are terms from the hebrew words for adversary and deceiver, and are his title now. Lucifer is his name/original heavenly title meaning lightbringer and is only mentioned as being his name once in the Bible, in Isaiah when describing his fall from grace due to his evil and pride. The Greek septuigint and most accurate translations say Lucifer/Lightbring while more neutered modern english versions change that line to morningstar instead of his name which is where many people get the idea of equating him to venus since it was known as the morning star, this is also further muddled by the frequent metaphorical references of angels as stars in the Bible. Fallen angels are mentioned in the real books of the Bible as well, satan was charismatic enough to convince one third of the angels to follow him when he fell. In genesis these fallen angels are said to have interbred with women to create the monstrous nephilim who were wiped out by the flood.

>>2541351
Excellent choices, keep spreading the word brother.

>>2534208
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iu3XcULf_E

>>2541051
>Jewish Apocrypha (book of enoh

fuck, I need to get a hold of that

>>2543486
its just a google away.

>>2543498
HEAVY METAL CULT STATUS HERE I COME

>>2534208
The global dominion of the Roman Catholic Church

Hes the guy God uses to test mankind.

>>2539142
Then I don't believe becuase of "God's love," I believe because of fear. That's extortion.

>>2539515
Carbon dating?

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>>2539165
>Neither did the world, most likely.

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>>2541233
>I was raised in a Baptist church.

Southern Baptist here

>>2539142
You're free to go wherever you want. We're just trying to warn you that left path, however you want to construe it, fucking sucks and will make things on earth around you suck. That's all anyone ever meant by this.

As I recall it involves being cast into a lake or sea of fire

>>2534208
Netflix and chill

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>>2543941
tfw raised atheist

>>2541351
We are our own gods. All our goodness, our beauty, our works of art, though we may give God the credit, we did ourselves. God gave no help. We do not want or need him.

>>2544551

what a piteous, culturally empty upbringing :(

>>2544561
Sheep

>>2544584

you are the one getting shepherded around by the mainstream :D

>>2541461
>>2541463
Good stuff, thanks

>>2544561
I know. But it drove me to religion. I feel like kids who are raised religious rebel into atheism but for me it was the opposite which is kinda nice I guess but I don't have that young faith ground into me.

>>2541051
>comparative religious studies
>folk faith
>christian-pagan syncretism
>plain bad translation of the Bible
>etymologically speaking
>Jewish apocrypha
First of all, there are no academics on this board. Just like how there's no females on the internet. Either show us your PhD or stop trying to sound like an academic. Academic on /his/ is a stale meme.

Second of all, your muddying the pure waters of truth with your religious studies minor and all of your academic bullshit research is not going to save you from the reality of that truth. Satan is real, and is bad in the sense that he wants to trick you into rejecting God and being thrown into Hell. What he wants is for people to not believe in demons, and sum up the belief in their existence to folklore and religious syncretism. You're playing into his hand.

>>2534217
this
>>2536007
>>2537687
>>2537964
you know, i've always wondered, how is it that Satan retains the ability to speak through the snake in the garden after his fall..isn't he already imprisoned in Hell??

>>2544707
>isn't he already imprisoned in Hell??
No.
>1 Peter 5:8
>Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
>Job 1:7
>And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Basically, Satan wanders the Earth searching for people to mess with. He commands legions of demons, some more powerful than others. Some act alone, some act as many. Satan and his demonic followers want to convince you that there is something after death other than the eventuality of Heaven and Hell. He wants to get as many people as possible to reject God and be thrown into Hell, because he is damned to go there also. They are angry, full of hate for God. Because they hate God, they hate you and me as well.

One day, though, even Satan will be cast into Hell.
>Revelation 20:10
>And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It is because of this eventual fate that Satan hates God and hates everybody. Do not believe the lie that Satan and his demons are not real. They want you to believe this, so they will have free movement and not be recognized.

>>2534434
>>2536007
t. Satan

>>2544764
No, they're just edgy fedoralords.

Actual Satan would try to convince you that he's not real.

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>>2544748
>Satan and his demonic followers want to convince you that there is something after death other than the eventuality of Heaven and Hell. He wants to get as many people as possible to reject God and be thrown into Hell

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>>2544773
>implying his pride won't compel him to praise himself on an anonymous imageboard

>>2544591
Majority of western countries are Christian, what the fuck are you on about?

>>2534208
lol the myth that satan is some thing with a pitchfork, whatever. read the original bible the Tanakh, book of job.

>>2544707
>you know, i've always wondered, how is it that Satan retains the ability to speak through the snake in the garden after his fall..isn't he already imprisoned in Hell??

For what it's worth the Serpent is never explicitly identified as Satan. Just "a serpent."

>>2544925
The Serpent is actually Samael, right? Is Samael related to Lucifer or Satan?

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>>2534208
>>>2544591
>Majority of western countries are Christian, what the fuck are you on about?

How is the degenerate filth shown in the media in any way Christian? How is the endless rat race for money and power Christian? How is the US President, who has divorced and remarried a Christian? How is the United States a Christian nation when it was founded by freemasonry? How is France, a country that openly supports homosexual unions Christian? How is Canada, a country which decriminalizes bestiality Christian?

If you mean the majority hide behind their "faith" when it suits them, then sure I agree with you. But you want to say that you live in a Christian society when you don't. You live in a society where the majority of people have an abstraction called faith, and use that to hate gays, other religions, and whatever else a random televangelist tells them to that week.

That's not christianity, it's a joke. It's a pale reflection of what the truth really is. And it's the reason every day, porn sites get bigger. It's the reason abortion activism increases year after year, even though the Catholic Church and all the different flavors of Protestant flakes condemn it. "Christians" in the west have become modern day phrases. "Christians" love their material pleasures more than respecting God, or helping their fellow man.

>>2544988
Christianity died a long time ago. This now is a joke, not Christianity.

>>2544988
>Th-they're not REAL Christians!!!
Face it Christcuck, your religion was always shitty.

>>2544925
Many of the evil entities in the Old Testament are just assumed to be Satan but likely aren't. The serpent if Eden and the tempter of Job being two examples.

>>2544707
He fell to earth. Not to hell, that comes later.

>>2541461
There's also a fourth beast, the beast that the harlot of Babylon rides on.

>>2543478
is that metal? only skinnyboi fags listen to metal

>>2541324
you faggot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_(Islam)
in Islam Iblis is an Angel

>>2542022
actually, not.

Have your read Isaiah?
The passage where "Lucifer" is named is about a babylonian king's fall from grace through his hubris. His fall from power is compared to falling from heaven as a metaphor.

Also, equating Isaiah (which is only a bad translation) with Apocalypse is just the Church tryharding to fabricate an enemy. The Fall of Angels from the Bible is BEFORE the Creation of Man. You confuse Apocrypha with Canon.

>>2544683
I didn't say I was an academic; so if you're butthurt about what I said, no need to take it on like a girl.

Secondly, I did not say Satan does not exist. I said Lucifer and Satan are vastly unrelated concepts that were linked mostly by fan-fictions based on the Bible.

If you don't know your own religion but at the same time proselytise witch-hunting, then you successfully incarnate the ignorance which has used the message of Christ against the people.

>>2544683
>there are no academics on this board

speak for yourself

>>2544988
WOOHOO, THE WESTBORO CHURCH IS HERE

>>2539164
Except the radicalisation of Islam is what leads people to want to stay away from it and might even make some people faithful to their mother religion to protect themselves from something foreign.

3.And I came to the Garden of Righteousness, and saw beyond those trees many large trees growing there and of goodly fragrance, large, very beautiful and glorious, and the tree of wisdom whereof they eat and know great wisdom.

4. ⌈That tree is in height like the fir, and its leaves are⌉ like (those of) the Carob tree: and its fruit is like the clusters of the vine, very beautiful: and the fragrance of the tree penetrates afar. 5. Then I said: '⌈How⌉ beautiful is the tree, and how attractive is its look!' 6. Then Raphael the holy angel, who was with me, answered me ⌈⌈and said⌉⌉: 'This is the tree of wisdom, of which thy father old (in years) and thy aged mother, who were before thee, have eaten, and they learnt wisdom and their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the garden.'

>>2545577
1. The second vision which he saw, the vision of wisdom--which Enoch the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, saw. 2. And this is the beginning of the words of wisdom which I lifted up my voice to speak and say to those which dwell on earth: Hear, ye men of old time, and see, ye that come after, the words of the Holy One which I will speak before the Lord of Spirits. 3. It were better to declare (them only) to the men of old time, but even from those that come after we will not withhold the beginning of wisdom

>>2545581
[...]
1. And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. 2. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.

3. And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory. 4. The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. 5. And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. 6. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits. 7. And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. 8. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: 'Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?' 9. And he said to me: 'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who

p. 60

is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.' And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

>>2545586
3. And there mine eyes saw the secrets of the lightning and of the thunder, and the secrets of the winds, how they are divided to blow over the earth, and the secrets of the clouds and dew, and there I saw from whence they proceed in that place and from whence they saturate the dusty earth. 4. And there I saw closed chambers out of which the winds are divided, the chamber of the hail and winds, the chamber of the mist, and of the clouds, and the cloud thereof hovers over the earth from the beginning of the world. 5. And I saw the chambers of the sun and moon, whence they proceed and whither they come again, and their glorious return, and how one is superior to the other, and their stately orbit, and how they do not leave their orbit, and they add nothing to their orbit and they take nothing from it, and they keep faith with each other, in accordance with the oath by which they are bound together. 6. And first the sun goes forth and traverses his path according to the commandment of the Lord of Spirits, and mighty is His name for ever and ever.

p. 61

[paragraph continues] 7. And after that I saw the hidden and the visible path of the moon, and she accomplishes the course of her path in that place by day and by night--the one holding a position opposite to the other before the Lord of Spirits.

And they give thanks and praise and rest not;
For unto them is their thanksgiving rest.
8. For the sun changes oft for a blessing or a curse,
And the course of the path of the moon is light to the righteous
And darkness to the sinners in the name of the Lord,

Who made a separation between the light and the darkness,
And divided the spirits of men,

And strengthened the spirits of the righteous,
In the name of His righteousness.

9. For no angel hinders and no power is able to hinder; for He appoints a judge for them all and He judges them all before Him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EApXhO0Tx-8

>>2545598
l. And after those days in that place where I had seen all the visions of that which is hidden--for I had been carried off in a whirlwind and they had borne me towards the west-- 2. There mine eyes saw all the secret things of heaven that shall be, a mountain of iron, and a mountain of copper, and a

p. 70

mountain of silver, and a mountain of gold, and a mountain of soft metal, and a mountain of lead.

3. And I asked the angel who went with me, saying, 'What things are these which I have seen in secret?' 4. And he said unto me: 'All these things which thou hast seen shall serve the dominion of His Anointed that he may be potent and mighty on the earth.'

5. And that angel of peace answered, saying unto me: 'Wait a little, and there shall be revealed unto thee all the secret things which surround the Lord of Spirits.

6. And these mountains which thine eyes have seen,
The mountain of iron, and the mountain of copper, and the mountain of silver,
And the mountain of gold, and the mountain of soft metal, and the mountain of lead,
All these shall be in the presence of the Elect One
As wax: before the fire,
And like the water which streams down from above [upon those mountains],
And they shall become powerless before his feet.
7. And it shall come to pass in those days that none shall be saved,
Either by gold or by silver,
And none be able to escape.
8 And there shall be no iron for war,
Nor shall one clothe oneself with a breastplate.
Bronze shall be of no service,
And tin [shall be of no service and] shall not be esteemed,
And lead shall not be desired.
9 And all these things shall be [denied and] destroyed from the surface of the earth,
When the Elect One shall appear before the face of the Lord of Spirits.'

>>2545637
1. There mine eyes saw a deep valley with open mouths, and all who dwell on the earth and sea and islands shall bring to him gifts and presents and tokens of homage, but that deep valley shall not become full.

2. And their hands commit lawless deeds,
And the sinners devour all whom they lawlessly oppress:
Yet the sinners shall be destroyed before the face of the Lord of Spirits,
And they shall be banished from off the face of His earth,
And they shall perish for ever and ever.

>>2545644
And they shall perish for ever and ever.

3. For I saw all the angels of punishment abiding (there) and preparing all the instruments of Satan. 4. And I asked the angel of peace who went with me: 'For whom are they preparing these instruments?' 5. And he said unto me: 'They prepare these for the kings and the mighty of this earth, that they may thereby be destroyed.

6. And after this the Righteous and Elect One shall cause the house of his congregation to appear: henceforth they shall be no more hindered in the name of the Lord of Spirits.

7. And these mountains shall not stand as the earth before his righteousness,
But the hills shall be as a fountain of water,
And the righteous shall have rest from the oppression of sinners.'

>>2545645
1 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning fire. 2. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3. And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4. And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: 'For whom are these chains being prepared?'

p. 72

[paragraph continues] 5. And he said unto me: 'These are being prepared for the hosts of Azâzêl, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded.

6. And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

>>2545647
3. When I have desired to take hold of them by the hand of the angels on the day of tribulation and pain because of this, I will cause My chastisement and My wrath to abide upon them, saith God, the Lord of Spirits. 4. Ye †mighty kings† who dwell on the earth, ye shall have to behold Mine Elect One, how he sits on the throne of glory and judges Azâzêl, and all his associates, and all his hosts in the name of the Lord of Spirits.'

>the bible is true :D
Jesus said he would be back before his disciples died.
He failed.

>>2534208
Misery loves company.

>>2545649
1. In the year five hundred, in the seventh month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the life of †Enoch†. In that Parable I saw how a mighty quaking made the heaven of heavens to quake, and the host of the Most High, and the angels, a thousand thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, were disquieted with a great disquiet. 2. And the Head of Days sat on the throne of His glory, and the angels and the righteous stood around Him.

3. And a great trembling seized me,
And fear took hold of me,
And my loins gave way,
And dissolved were my reins,
And I fell upon my face.

>>2545663
7. And on that day were two monsters parted, a female monster named Leviathan, to dwell in the abysses of the ocean over the fountains of the waters. 8. But the male is named Behemoth, who occupied with his breast a waste wilderness named †Dûidâin†, on the east of the garden where the elect and righteous dwell, where my grandfather was taken up, the seventh from Adam, the first man whom the Lord of Spirits created. 9. And I besought the other angel that he should show me the might of those monsters, how they were parted on one day and cast, the one into the abysses of the sea, and the other unto the dry land of the wilderness. 10. And he said to me: 'Thou son of man, herein thou dost seek to know what is hidden.'

>>2545667
24. And the angel of peace who was with me said to me: 'These two monsters, prepared conformably to the greatness of God, shall feed . . .

>>2541461
>>2541463
Thanks. That was intersting. So all the stuff about: "born of a jackle, disciples of the watch, creating armies on either shore" ect ect. Whats all that about? Or is that made up too?

>>2545673
1. And I saw in those days how long cords were given to those angels, and they took to themselves wings and flew, and they went towards the north.

2. And I asked the angel, saying unto him: 'Why have those (angels) taken these cords and gone off?' And he said unto me: 'They have gone to measure.'

3. And the angel who went with me said unto me:
'These shall bring the measures of the righteous,
And the ropes of the righteous to the righteous,
That they may stay themselves on the name of the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.

4. The elect shall begin to dwell with the elect,
And those are the measures which shall be given to faith
And which shall strengthen righteousness.

>>2545683
10. And He will summon all the host of the heavens, and all the holy ones above, and the host of God, the Cherubic, Seraphin and Ophannin, and all the angels of power, and all the angels of principalities, and the Elect One, and the other powers on the earth (and) over the water. 11. On that day shall raise one voice, and bless and glorify and exalt in the spirit of faith, and in the spirit of wisdom, and in the spirit of patience, and in the spirit of mercy, and in the spirit of judgement and of peace, and in the spirit of goodness, and shall all say with one voice: "Blessed is He, and may the name of the Lord of Spirits be blessed for ever and ever."

12. All who sleep not above in heaven shall bless Him:
All the holy ones who are in heaven shall bless Him,
And all the elect who dwell in the garden of life:

And every spirit of light who is able to bless, and glorify, and extol, and hallow Thy blessed name,
And all flesh shall beyond measure glorify and bless Thy name for ever and ever.

13. For great is the mercy of the Lord of Spirits, and He is long-suffering, p. 81
And all His works and all that He has created He has revealed to the righteous and elect
In the name of the Lord of Spirits.

>>2545676
3. And I, Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers called me--Enoch the scribe--and said to me: 4. 'Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, †declare† to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves wives: "Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: 5. And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness of sin: and inasmuch as †they† delight themselves in †their† children, 6. The murder of †their† beloved ones shall †they† see, and over the destruction of †their† children shall †they† lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain."'

>>2545684
1. And other forms I saw hidden in that place. 2. I heard the voice of the angel saying: 'These are the angels who descended to the earth, and revealed what was hidden to the children of men and seduced the children of men into committing sin.'

>>2545700
1. And in those days Noah saw the earth that it had sunk down and its destruction was nigh. 2. And he arose from thence and went to the ends of the earth, and cried aloud to his grandfather Enoch: and Noah said three times with an embittered voice: Hear me, hear me, hear me.' 3. And I said unto him: 'Tell me what it is that is falling out on the earth that the earth is in such evil plight and shaken, lest perchance I shall perish with it?' 4. And thereupon there was a great commotion, on the earth, and a voice was heard from heaven, and I fell on my face. 5. And Enoch my grandfather came and stood by me, and said unto me: 'Why hast thou cried unto me with a bitter cry and weeping?

6. And a command has gone forth from the presence of the Lord concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, and all their powers--the most secret ones--and all the power of those who practice sorcery, and the power of witchcraft, and the power of those who make molten images for the whole earth:

>>2545703
7. And how silver is produced from the dust of the earth, and how soft metal originates in the earth. 8. For lead and tin are not produced from the earth like the first: it is a fountain that produces them, and an angel stands therein, and that

p. 86

angel is pre-eminent.' 9. And after that my grandfather Enoch took hold of me by my hand and raised me up, and said unto me: 'Go, for I have asked the Lord of Spirits as touching this commotion on the earth. 10. And He said unto me: "Because of their unrighteousness their judgement has been determined upon and shall not be withheld by Me for ever. Because of the sorceries which they have searched out and learnt, the earth and those who dwell upon it shall be destroyed." 11. And these--they have no place of repentance for ever, because they have shown them what was hidden, and they are the damned: but as for thee, my son, the Lord of Spirits knows that thou art pure, and guiltless of this reproach concerning the secrets.

12. And He has destined thy name to be among the holy,
And will preserve thee amongst those who dwell on the earth,
And has destined thy righteous seed both for kingship and for great honours,
And from thy seed shall proceed a fountain of the righteous and holy without number for ever.

>>2545704
1. And after that he showed me the angels of punishment who are prepared to come and let loose all the powers of the waters which are beneath in the earth in order to bring judgement and destruction on all who [abide and] dwell on the earth. 2. And the Lord of Spirits gave commandment to the angels who were going forth, that they should not cause the waters to rise but should hold them in check; for those angels were over the powers of the waters. 3. And I went away from the presence of Enoch.

>>2545705
1. And in those days the word of God came unto me, and He said unto me: 'Noah, thy lot has come up before Me, a lot without blame, a lot of love and uprightness. 2. And now the angels are making a wooden (building), and when they have completed that task I will place My hand upon it and preserve it, and there shall come forth from it the seed of life, and a change shall set in so that the earth will not remain without inhabitant. 3. And I will make fast thy seed before me for ever and ever, and I will spread abroad those who dwell with thee: it shall not be unfruitful on the face of the earth, but it shall be blessed and multiply on the earth in the name of the Lord.'

4. And He will imprison those angels, who have shown unrighteousness, in that burning valley which my grandfather Enoch had formerly shown to me in the west among the mountains of gold and silver and iron and soft metal and tin. 5. And I saw that valley in which there was a great convulsion and a convulsion of the waters. 6. And when all this took place, from that fiery molten metal and from the convulsion thereof in that place, there was produced a smell of sulphur, and it was connected with those waters, and that valley of the angels who had led astray (mankind) burned beneath that land. 7. And through its valleys proceed streams of fire, where these angels are punished who had led astray those who dwell upon the earth.

>>2534208
Just gonna throw this out there: I recently tried reading "paradise lost", and I got nowhere, does anyone have any recommendations on how to read it?

He accuses God I believe(the accuser), tries to scrutinize him. And for some reason God rarely responds, so he's free to do what he wants. Why would scrutiny be there anyway?
Seems like a servant questioning a king, which was common practise in ancient kingdoms korea for example had an office devoted to this.
I think the ancient hebrews saw God as 'king' of the world so to speak and thus modelled him as a person in a court behaving like a 'king' to draw comparisons. Just stream of consciousness here, but it seems like he developped from that into the big bad.
t. fedora

>>2545710
1 And after this judgement they shall terrify and make them to tremble because they have shown this to those who dwell on the earth.

2 And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjâzâ, the second Artâqîfâ, and the third Armên, the fourth Kôkabêl, the fifth †Tûrâêl†, the sixth Rûmjâl, the seventh Dânjâl, the eighth †Nêqâêl†, the ninth Barâqêl, the tenth Azâzêl, the eleventh Armârôs, the twelfth Batarjâl, the thirteenth †Busasêjal†, the fourteenth Hanânêl, the fifteenth †Tûrêl†, and the sixteenth Sîmâpêsîêl, the seventeenth Jetrêl, the eighteenth Tûmâêl, the nineteenth Tûrêl, the twentieth †Rumâêl†, the twenty-first †Azâzêl†. 3. And these are the chiefs of their angels and their names, and their chief ones over hundreds and over fifties and over tens].

4. The name of the first Jeqôn: that is, the one who led astray ⌈all⌉ the sons of God, and brought them down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. 5. And the second was named Asbeêl: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled their bodies with the daughters of men. 6. And the third was named Gâdreêl: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed ⌈the weapons of death to the sons of men⌉ the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons of death to the

p. 90

children of men.

>>2545719
+5 pence
+5 pence
+5 pence
+5 pence
thank you for spamming to derail discussion, the christian community is very pleased

>>2545734
kek, I just thought it would contribute to the whole cult element if I quoted straight from the book of Enoch

>>2545738
Imageboard format can't really handle that well, so it ends up being spammy

>>2536007
god already gave that freedom to men by giving them free will.

>>2545741
>here's some free will
>use it to choose me and the exact discipline I command or it's eternal suffering

>>2545743
>here's some free will t.god
>DO AS I SAY IN THIS BOOK THAT I WROTE YOU GOY t.pope/king or whatever

>>2544683
Or someone just read a few books. Or an article. Or a fucking wiki. Don't blame others for your laziness at reading.

i wonder if Angels like lucifer( Satan now) is a creation of God, why does lucifer sin against god?
I mean back then when human was still immortal, Sin is not born right? when adam take that bite, that was only the time where sin was existed, so why luficer sin against God if "Sin" was not present because human was still immortal?

>>2545791

*sinned against God,

in my own understanding

Angels are divine, spiritual,perfect, "sinless" being, created by God to worship him and obey him, so

HOW CAN a being like that sin against his creator? How can he be Jealous against human? i taught they are perfect

>>2541051

with that lie you could burn in hell, your tounge will be the tool to judge you in the end

>>2541233

do i really need a religion in order to be considered to be a christian?

>>2534217
>He thinks he knows one of God's weaknesses
>knows a weakness in an all-seeing all-knowing entity
>g*d needs a climactic pre-decided battle of dick-waving in the transjordan desert to show who's boss even though he can erase s*tan and "badness" in this world with his will
Loving every laugh. Does the average christian actually stop and think about how retarded this sounds?

>>2545840
>>>knows a weakness in an all-seeing all-knowing entity
>God is all-seeing and all-knowing
>according to God

Really makes you think doesn't it?

>>2545853
>>God is all-seeing and all-knowing
>>according to God
Well, if he isn't, the desert trilogy falls apart.

>>2545868
To a 2D person in a drawing, someone from the third dimension talking with him, could definitely seem like he was all-knowing and all-seeing. He would see the past images, he would see everything around him, but in reality he's still limited in how much he can see at any given time. Though the 2D person doesn't need to know that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM

>>2534208
Prove humanity is a piece shit.

>>2545813

>with that lie you could burn in hell
With that attitude you too bud.

But you know what's the thing? I did not lie, I spoke what is my opinion. If my opinion on the subject is different from yours, then we are in a disagreement. But throwing me in your hell for a different opinion than yours only burdens you further in yours.

Don't worry; I will have my own hell. So will you. We will share only regrets. Judgement is as you said:

>your tounge will be the tool to judge you in the end

>>2545818
no.

>>2545868
>Well, if he isn't, the desert trilogy falls apart.
To muslims, Allah is already unable to see everything after the sunset.

>>2546019
>Allah is already unable to see everything after the sunset.
That's interesting. Care to expand on that?

>Mfw Satan was redpilled about god and wanted to save humanity from a creator who doesnt give a shit about his creations
>Hes just portrayed as evil because god has powerful propaganda

>>2546019
Here's (you)

>>2546012

i didn't know refuting something that blaspheme the truth is a sin also, I'm not a retard, I know all people are going to hell, but in truth there is a chance to be saved, and the wrath is more worse to those who blaspheme or defile what God truly said, and you my friend is that one. so I think yours is more burdensome than mine, but peace... only he can judge u

>>2546068
>only he can judge u
Yes, I agree.
>so I think yours is more burdensome than mine
But I see you also did.

>blaspheme or defile what God truly said

Translating the biblical story of a usurped biblical king from the land of Babylon based on one line (http://biblehub.com/isaiah/14-12.htm) taken out of context into an argument for equating Satan to what you call Lucifer and thus changing what Satan means sure is not to be considered blasphemy on the part of most of today's "faithful" who see the Bible as the Word of God.


Faith alone does not get you closer to God.
Faith alone gets you closer to the mirror of humanity which frequently gets called God.

Keep holding it tight if that is what you wish. Maybe if you look long enough in it you will turn yourself in a living icon, and thus believe that you are with God.

But you will be alone, holding your mirror in the darkness, and that shall be your hell - eternal self sufficiency and tight control onto what you see as "truth". With a forced smile that you being alone means that everybody else, people like me, must be in some hell for "blaspheming", for not validating your personal truth.

You take God's truth as it were your own.

But alas, that is what most of us do. It is tempting not to let go. So maybe that is what awaits us all who speak too much but listen too little.

>peace
Same to you.

>>2545791
Angels aren't perfect. The only reason humans lost paradise was because THEY sinned. Sin was already born, but up until the fall, humans hadn't sinned.

>>2545551
Comparing authentic Catholicism to crazy prottys should be a sin.

>>2546229
Don't forget to pay some indulgence so you can spend less time in a place that doesn't exist. Don't worry I'm sure the Pope will put in a good word with his main man Jeez.

>>2546379
Oh I havent. I get indIndulgences every time i do stations of the cross during lent.

Also, protip. Indulgaces cannot be sold. That would be simony, as it has always been.

>>2546024
When the sun goes down, Allah can't see anymore because its dark outside

>>2545747
are you an anabaptist?

>>2545791
>i wonder if Angels like lucifer( Satan now)
>( Satan now)
>this isn't even his final form

>>2545818
by definition, yes. You have to believe in Christ, otherwise you 're just another parasite. No different than the christians, but not one.

>>2545840
how the fuck hasn't anybody attacked you for being jewish?
shit
nobody even realised it.
They couldn't understand that you are jewish.

You people are stupid.

Whatever you do, stay on /his/ and visit it at least once a day. No joke or irony.

>>2539592
Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

No.

>>2540353
He's a man, a political leader, who will be possessed by satan, declare himself god, and desecrate the Temple.

>>2545840
>g*d
>s*tan
Is it autism?

>>2540989
>The Anti-christ is mostly a meme perpetuated by Hollywood

I know right? Those guys make all kinds of crazy stories!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuoImaZD4SI

>>2544707
He literally walked the earth with Jesus trying to temp Him.

File: 1449495578.png (469KB, 600x645px) Image search: [Google]

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>Everyone ITT falling for the dualistic cosmogony meme set up by the persians
GOOD KHAREJ

>>2545676
The Beast from the Sea is described as having the body of a leopard, but I don't think jackals are ever mentioned. And he does lead his army against the forces of heaven, but aside from the whole "of the Sea" thing I don't think the battle itself has anything to do with the shores. It takes place in the city of Armageddon. I think the later final battle with the Dragon uses a shoreline metaphor but I honestly don't remember off the top of my head.

>>2545715
Barnes and noble classics edition has a huge introduction and lots of notes, maybe try that?

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ENCORE! ENCORE? ENCORE!*

---------------

So many, syllables, to word(s), numbers . . .; equations, and riddles; to THE vibration.

"Mercy, MERCY me"; merci, fellow SENATORS.

Is there any wonder why the FOOL, got away with so much bollocks for, and "to" the "KING".

--------------------

Erasmus, - "praise" be of Folly, to those that think they're the King; there's only one, and IT is a Connard.

--------------

Ahhhhhhhh, I have shook-up too much NONSENSE; only "O", and "L", my LORDS, and MASTERS.

--------------
*"Play it again Sam"; or "so it goes . . ."**

----------------
**Good Show.