How accurate are these maps? 1/4

File: Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg (3MB, 2474x1619px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2474x1619px

2/4

File: Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_3.jpg (2MB, 2057x1531px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2057x1531px

3/4

File: Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg (3MB, 2192x1533px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2192x1533px

4/4

it does make sense in light of haplogroups

I1 represents the original European hunter-gatherer stock, they are Nordic here

r1a/r1b represents immigration from the Near East and Caucasus, the Aryans, who brought the IE languages, Alpines here

we know that "Nordic" these days have retreated to the Scandinavia and northern Germany, with pockets existing where there were Norse expansion (British isles, around the Baltic)

>>2531771

>I1 represents the original European hunter-gatherer stock, they are Nordic here

Indo-Europeans are Nordic.
I1 were probably swarthy like other natives of North-Western Europe, chiefly their I2 brothers.

R1a and R1b are from Sibero-European Cro-Magnons and represent the primordial Nordic race. Nothing to do with Near East and Caucasus except that they mixed with their women.

File: Haplogroup-R1b-S21.gif (84KB, 800x546px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 800x546px

>>2531771
It's got a somewhat large flaw though, the "continental nordics" mostly match up with r1a, and the alpines mostly with r1b. But it has r1a moving into denmark for the start of the nordic bronze age instead of r1b.

>>2530937
Not at all. Madison Grant was some shitty lawyer, he had no knowledge of anthropologic or craniometric data, much less genetics.

>>2531798

It's got nothing but flaws and everyone well versed in these subjects knows this but then again it's almost 100 years old so it's understable..
The "Alpine" migration from Anatolia happened in 7000 BC and was the same as Mediterraneans.

>>2531794
>Indo-Europeans are Nordic

>>2531819

Who else would be Nordic?


Indo-Europeans are the only logical people to associate with the Nordic race.

>>2531826
>the Nordic race

>>2531832


Mal'ta Buret' culture near lake Baikal was the birthplace of the Nordic race 25000 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta–Buret'_culture

Native Americans also have Nordic roots.

>>2531826
Scandies?

So basically
>Mal'ta Buret'=Ur-Nords
>Pre-Proto-Yamna=Fully formed Nords
>Late Yamna=Mixed race Nords
>Corded Ware=even more mixed Nords but spiritually Nordic

Meanwhile whoever the fuck was carrying I1 doesn't have jackshit to do with the Nordic race from Mal'ta Buret'. I1 is related to Jewish haplogroups anyway.

File: R1b-migration-map.jpg (155KB, 1024x531px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 1024x531px

>>2531794
>R1a and R1b are from Sibero-European Cro-Magnons
Older r/r1 is found east of the black sea, it's not a "native" euro line.

>>2531816
>7k bc
The groups putter around near the black sea for quite a while before moving into europe proper though, 3k isn't entirely inaccurate for that movement.

>>2531856
>east of the Black Sea
>not Europe
Even a part of Kazakhstan is geographically European

>>2531860
The person I'm replying to is specifically saying that region is not involved.

>>2531852

Sigh. Scandinavian culture or people don't exist outside an Indo-European context. It's just a corruption of the original Nordic steppe culture since Scandis are racially impure.

>>2531856

It doesn't matter if it's not a native European line or not, it came from Siberia to Europe 15-20k years ago. Middle Easterners have R1a and R1b because they are the traditional cumsluts of the Nordic race.

>>2531794
>>2531826
>>2531865
WIR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture#Physical_characteristics

>The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al. (2015), Wilde et al.(2014), Mathieson et al. (2015) : they were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European.[18][5] Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.

>>2531878

>tall

Nordic trait

I already said they were racially impure Nords as are Scandinavians anyway. They seized walking wombs aka women from the nearby Kartvelians/Georgians for breeding purposes which transformed their racial characteristics.
They still had the genes for all the Nordic traits but it took a while for sexual selection to bring their frequency up.

File: 1483846986721.png (217KB, 775x687px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 775x687px

>>2531896
>shitskins who are literally darker than modern Meds are Nordics

I really don't see how you can claim that.

>>2531837

>inhabited by a population of Mongoloid appearance
>Mal'ta–Buret had brown eyes, dark hair and dark skin

>>2531896
Typical monkey tier Russian pseudo science. I can taste the fucking vodka even reading this drivel.

>>2531903

They were Ur-Nords.
It took a while longer until Nordic traits like green eyes(not blue) would emerge.
Blue eyes are a paleolithic European defect and not strictly Nordic.
Red hair might be Nordic, hard to say at this point.

>>2531913
just stop

>>2531909

Everything I said was true you dumb lying kebab.
There really was a paleolithic Siberian people whose descendants would go on to cuckold much of the world, including Middle East.

It's an autistic fantasy fueled by an inferiority complex to claim that R1a and R1b are from the Middle East when there are no proofs for it and plenty of proofs against it.

File: 1484934196687.gif (2MB, 1200x598px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1200x598px

>>2530937
>>2530942
>>2530946
>>2530954

not accurate, extremely oversimplified

>Cro-Magnon in 1500 BC

>>2531856

lol

>>2531918

You're retarded.
If you want to talk about non-Indo-European Nordics you have nothing to talk about.
They don't exist and they never did.

Nice Nordic race there.

>>2531913
>Blue eyes are a defect

kys

>>2531943

They are since they aren't linked with the Aryan/Nordic race as strongly.
It's possible there were Aryans with blue eyes but still green eyes are the unique characteristic of the Nordic Aryans.

File: MILK.jpg (77KB, 592x592px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 592x592px

>>2531948
>Aryan/Nordic race

you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about

>>2531943
Coloured eyes are literally genetic defects

>>2531928
why lol?

>>2531932
No, I don't really want to talk about some invented mishmash of terms that is apparently being used to spin some entirely unevidenced history. Just stop using the word nordic, thanks.

>>2531952

You are the one who has no clue. You deny everything that scientists say about the origin of Indo-Europeans in favor of Arabic fairytales about Arabs with R1a and R1b.

>>2531956


>r1a/r1b represents immigration from the Near East and Caucasus, the Aryans, who brought the IE languages, Alpines here

Apparently you don't object to Arabic fairytales about Arabian Aryans?

>>2531943
They're pretty, but they are a defect.

>>2531955
>Coloured eyes

lol bongs talking about genetic defects

>>2531957

>Arabs with R1a and R1b

lol no

You have no idea what you are talking about. You use the term "Aryan race" unironically because you're a retarded stormfag. You will never convince anyone that way.

Ukrainian Steppe, domestication of horses, lactose tolerance, invention of the chariot.

>>2531971

In what sense? In that they're better to see with in low light environments? In that they into vitamin synthesis in northern latitudes?

>>2531964
>>2531957
>arabs
jesus, just kill yourself.

you've thrown together a bunch of made up terms to try and argue against a "theory" that only exists in your fevered dreams. "Arabs" have fuckall to do with proto indo europeans.

>>2531976

Stormfront is retarded and doesn't understand that racial mixing between different breeds occurred in the past and focuses on pigmentation only just like the Arab ITT.

File: cat-eye-768x482.png (701KB, 768x482px) Image search: [Google]

701KB, 768x482px

>>2531948
>>2531955
>>2531971
Light eyes have a purpose both in the animal and human kingdoms; they see better in the dark. All cats have light eyes.

>>2531921
I'm not a kebab, I just understand Russian and know that Russian anthronerd forums are completely rife with low IQ asspull theories like the ones you're trying to push.

>>2531991

This whole thread is a FUCKING JOKE.
Some Arab is trying to push his inferiority complexed narrative about Middle Eastern supremacy and backing it up with 100 year old maps.
My shitposting about Nordics and Aryans was at least informational eg. Mal'ta Buret' being the common ancestor of both Indo-Europeans and Native Americans or at least closely related to it.

>>2532020
Well, at least you correctly identified your posts as shit. That's about the first thing you've said that's accurate.

>>2532005
But then you might ask: "Why do eskimos have brown eyes"? Because sunlight reflection on the ice is a serious problem where they live. It can even cause you to go blind if you're not careful.

>>2532029

Everything I said was accurate, only the terminology was inflammatory against you because of your inferiority complex.

Dispute this.

Indo-Europeans descend from Paleolithic Siberians who moved into the Eastern European steppe 15-20k years ago.

To think blue eyes are some "northern" trait is pure horseshit, they evolved around the Black Sea which isn't exactly the fucking Arctic. Not to mention even Scandinavia during the antiquity had a much milder climate than today, blue eyes have nothing to do with the north or with cold.

>>2532050
>Paleolithic Siberians
>Nordic race

choose one

>>2532054
>blue eyes have nothing to do with the north

which is why they're so common around the equator, right?

>>2532054
>they evolved around the Black Sea

Why do people still believe in this meme? Get with the times: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140126-blue-eye-spain-fossil-human-discovery-gene/

>>2532058

These people were direct ancestors of Indo-Europeans.
If you want to say they weren't Nordic I don't actually care, it just means that a Nordic race never existed.

>>2532063
Which is why they don't exist in northern Asia or among native Americans at all and only emerged in Europe.

File: Europe_sunshine_hours_map.png (212KB, 655x600px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 655x600px

>>2532063
Light eyes are obviously strongly correlated with pic related. The less sun, the more they are going to be naturally selected by the people.

>>2532069
>don't exist in northern Asia or among native Americans at all

hehehehehehehehe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis

>>2532050
Uh, I already did.

We can track PIE's y haplo groups as they move into europe along with assorted technologies and language that they brought with them. Siberia is off in the middle of fucking nowhere and has nothing to do with this except r1a groups moving in there later on.

>>2532076
Solutreans didn't have blue eyes.

File: 1391884594519.jpg (17KB, 350x277px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 350x277px

>>2532076
>In 2009, anthropologist David J. Meltzer criticized the hypothesis, stating, "Few if any archaeologists—or, for that matter, geneticists, linguists, or physical anthropologists—take seriously the idea of a Solutrean colonization of America."

>>2532080

Here you go again into your fever dreams about Arabian Aryans.
There's ample evidence of R1a and R1b being the haplogroups of mesolithic Russians and Balts(Samara culture, Narva culture, Comb Ceramic etc).
It didn't come there from anywhere except Siberia, mesolithic Europeans belonged to the EHG type which was unmixed with Middle Easterners, being a mixture of European and Paleolithic Siberian types.

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

Ctrl+f R1a or R1b

>>2532116

Yamna people were directly descendants of their EHG fathers.
There was an intermediate form between the EHG and Yamna called Khvalynsk culture who had already absorbed some Georgian maternal DNA but still carried R1a and R1b paternal markers.

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/copperbronzeagedna.shtml

There simply is no logical reason for migration. The concept is basically so braindead wrong that it only makes sense if your inferiority complex is so severe that it makes you utterly detached from objective facts.

File: ty cobb.jpg (190KB, 1108x993px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 1108x993px

>>2532116
>ctrl+f r1b
Oh wow, 2 sites and both not in siberia, because it didn't come from there. Guess which branch the italics, germanics(""""nordics""""), celtics, iranians and indians all come from?

protip: it's r1b

Also
>cacuasus
>arabian

>>2532169
sorry, not iranians and indians, sorry, slavs can have those.

>>2532169

Idiot.
R originated in Siberia but R1b/R1a originated either in Siberia or Europe, probably the latter.
It doesn't even matter. What matters was that these haplogroups dominated the forests and steppe of Eastern Europe for 10000 years and this is where Indo-Europeans come from.

>>2532104
"""anthropologist""" (David) (J). (Meltzer)

>>2532169
>>2532177

Narva culture is in the Baltic btw.
These Baltic R1bs were relatively closely descended to the modern day Indo-European R1bs as they were basal to M269.
It seems the paternal ancestors of Indo-European R1bs might hail for the forests of perhaps Belarus.

File: images.duckduckgo.com.gif (43KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 1280x1024px

>>2532177
>What matters was that these haplogroups dominated the forests and steppe of Eastern Europe for 10000 years and this is where Indo-Europeans come from.

>>2530937
its just speculation

>>2532213

I always stated that haplogroup R1(+a+b) came to Europe from Siberia 20-15k years ago.
R1b was detected in a single Italian sample(Villabruna) from 14kya so that sets an effective lower bound for it's arrival.
I never claimed that Indo-Europeans came from Siberia in 5000 BC or whatever it is you want to claim I did. It was clearly in Europe for a long time.
You might want to cut off the lower part of your circle to make it more accurate. Caucasus isn't the Indo-European homeland, it's a very different place.

>>2532222

/thread

File: 2fixed.jpg (266KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

266KB, 1280x1024px

>>2532213

Here, now it makes sense and you can understand what context PIE are coming from too.

File: Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png (71KB, 780x510px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 780x510px

>>2532301
>>2532237
Yamna goes further south than that, and is mostly r1b, and are the quintessential proto-indoeuropeans, and the big precursor groups like unetice are all r1b. The corded ware shit to the north is mostly r1a. The r1a/b split being some 20k years in the past at that point.

Maykop and kura araxxes, which go down to the caucasus both had r1b samples and predate yamna. And if we go further back in time, we find r1b south of the caucasus in places like the hasuna culture, and things like the v88 branch that split off form the near east across northern africa and touches the iberian penninsula, with some going down to chad.

The point being, the big groups, the italics, the celtics, the germanics, all come from this r1b group that moves out from yamna, and has cultural and genetic ties to the south.

The problems are many, but you're confusing r1a with certain groups that are strongly tied to specific r1b branches. And confusing r1a being found in northern and eastern regions with the ultimate origins of R, which is still an unknown, but hinted to be southeast from the caspian and never even implied to have anything to do with arabs..

File: R1b-tree.png (41KB, 960x1100px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 960x1100px

>>2532483
pic also related

i fapped to this, thx OP

t-thanks haplobro

>>2532483

>Maykop and kura araxxes, which go down to the caucasus both had r1b samples and predate yamna

No proof of R1b in Maykop.

Everything you're saying is a fairytale. It doesn't matter what some R1b men moved south

We've known they did for a long time. They descended down from the steppe into Middle East and Caucasus at some point in time.

It still has nothing to do with the origins of modern Western European R1b which is probably in Belarus or Ukraine and has mesolithic roots there as it's so closely related to Narva culture R1b from Latvia which is basal M269.
You keep trying to deny that R1b is utterly indigenous to Eastern Europe ever since it's ancestor arrived there from Siberia. Narva and Samara cultures were not genetically mixed with Middle Easterners at all.

>>2530942
>Indians and British are in the same group

Yeah ok

>>2532483

LMAO I just realized you confused Samara culture in SAMARA, RUSSIA with fucking Samarra/Hassuna culture in Iraq.

So I guess now you abandon this fact because it doesn't support your autism.

>>2532660
No, I meant hassuna because r1b was found there.

>>2532679

Proof?
Anyway, it's still characteristic of Eastern Europe.
If it was found in Hassuna which I don't believe then it lends credence to the idea that European folks founded Sumeria.

>>2532567
>m269
>The phylogenetic relationships of numerous branches within the core Y-chromosome haplogroup R-M207 support a West Asian origin of haplogroup R1b, its initial differentiation there followed by a rapid spread of one of its sub-clades carrying the M269 mutation to Europe
>These findings have led to the reappraisal that R1b-M269 in Europe is young and likely associated with a Neolithic demic expansion from the Near East through Anatolia.
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v19/n1/full/ejhg2010146a.html
wew

>cultures moved from the steppes towards the caucasus and south
>On the basis of a whole series of radiocarbon analyses, it has been proved [15; 82] that burial mounds of the ancient pit-grave culture are of a significantly later period in comparison with Maikop archaeological sites. This allows scholars to assume that the tradition of building this type of burial mounds emerged precisely in the Maikop culture.
>https://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/05/uruk-migrants-in-caucasus.html
lad

>>2532847

This is outdated speculation. Speculation doesn't constitute evidence.
There wasn't a single drop of Middle Eastern blood of any kind in Narva culture.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1

>The Neolithic Transition in the Baltic Was Not Driven by Admixture with Early European Farmers

R1b is a diagnostic marker of Eastern European influence, including M269.
Hittites were Europeans who conquered Anatolia so their M269 along that of Celts and Romans and others can be found there.

File: 1477051917457.png (19KB, 241x288px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 241x288px

>>2532867
>There are two major theories to explain the distribution of Indo-European languages that constitute the most widely spoken language family in the world: (1) they have an Anatolian origin and were spread by Neolithic agriculturalists [32, 33] and (2) they developed in the Pontic Steppe and proliferated through Late Neolithic/Bronze Age migrations

>n ADMIXTURE analysis, it is composed of the blue component (Figure 2B), which is predominant in all of the older Latvian samples, but also a green component, which is maximized in hunter-gatherer samples from the Caucasus.
The competing theories are whether r1b came over north of the black sea or south, not the fact that they get a hot cacuasus bloodline injection.

>>2532938

Now you're starting to get it.

The Caucasus bloodline injection(green component) was strictly from captured or purchased Georgian females. Caucasus paternal DNA is unknown among Yamna but Caucasus maternal DNA is common. The paternal blue component is of course linked with Eastern European R1b.


Still, they didn't from either Caucasus or Anatolia but Ukraine. They went into Anatolia though, simultaneously as they conquered their way deep into Atlantic Europe.

No point posting anymore in this thread. This has as been as perfectly explained as it can be.

>>2532938
>competing theories
>implying the "muh peaceful Anatolian farming migrations" line isn't pushed by literally two faggots who hate chariots and the idea that populations can be displaced violently (rather than the current dogma stating that the majority of genetic data found in a given geographical location has always been there and never changed because of invasion or extinction events)
>implying this isn't a way of justifying the mass immigration policies of western central governments

pls

>>2532986
>getting y dna from females
Well, I'm glad you're done so I don't have to read more idiocy like this.

The mtDNA in all samples is U dumbass. And the r1b1a1b is clearly different branch than r1b1a which goes through the caucasus and gives us all the later lines.

>>2533001
>chariotfag still doesn't know when the things were invented and insists on reading modern political shit into ancient discussions.
fuck off

>>2533072
sorry, r1b1b is what they found in the mesolithic samples, which is even farther removed

>>2533072

I guess you literally are retarded. Kurdish inbreeding?

Only the youngest sample in the Latvian set had the Caucasus component and guess, he was a Corded Ware R1a man not an R1b.
R1b was there before him, without any Middle Eastern admixture. Full blue component.

That debunks your bullshit.

File: updated R1b-tree.png (81KB, 960x1100px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 960x1100px

>>2533111
here, because you can't figure out how the naming scheme and ydna mutations work. This is where the latvians branched off.

>>2533111
> he was a Corded Ware R1a man
oh wow, not a georgian female huh? weird. it's almost like you made a bunch of shit up.

You do realize that caucasus admixtures moving there via the corded ware culture counters your other narrative as well, right?

>>2533166

No? Corded Ware was closely related to Yamna. There wasn't much R1b in Corded Ware but they both had origins in Ukraine, especially their paternal lines. If you weren't suffering from an inferiority complex maybe your inbred brain could process that fact.

>>2533175
>both had origins in the ukraine
>somehow move dna from caucasus up to latvia
weird, I wonder how that happened, almost like they were related to cultures to the south isn't it?

>>2533185

Yes. Maternally. They acquired lots of those juicy non-U5/U4 haplogroups from Caucasus women but no paternal lines as J and G don't appear.

>>2533234
Why can't you read your own fucking sources? The u5 mtdna was already there in mesolithic, and the r1b variant they found is not the same branch that led to western european cultures, it split off much much earlier. This isn't that hard.

>>2533383
*u5 mtdna was there in the mesolithic and what they found on the r1a dude.