Which was the best greek City-State?

SPARTA.

>>2505670
All of them have been cunts.

>>2505670
Anyone who says anything other than Athens is memeing.

>>2505670
Gortyn

>>2505698

This.

>>2505698
c-corinth....

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Spread you ass cheeks, βάρβαρος! For the faggot squad is coming to town to wreck your candy asses.

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>>2505670
Never forget 146 bc. The year of the cunt, when the most important city starting with a 'C' was destroyed. And some other backwater in Africa too.

Tygea

>>2505675
spartans were niggers who produced no worthwhile cultural output and literally had no currency until the peloponnesian war

Athens>Thebes>Sparta

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>>2505952
what a shame...

>>2505670
Athens
Thebes
Pergamum
Miletos
Rhodes

Obviously Athens. #2 is Syracuse.

Corinth is definitely up there but not THE best

>>2506308
>Athens
>Thebes
>Pergamum
>Miletos
>Rhodes
add
Syracuse
Corinth
and you got a list of all the good cities, in no particular order.
Oh and Mytilini

>>2506136

Don't forget that they could only sustain their "Muh virtue" when surrounded by literally nothing. Spartan history is full of Spartans who start misbehaving as soon as they leave the city limits.

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Syrakousai.

Thebes.

Every post after this one is a troll.

Obviously Thebes

>>2506795
Yeah it's almost like they only cared about their native city state or something

Athens single handedly started Western Civilization

Any other answer is a joke

>>2506795
Their "virtue" is also largely a result of mythologizing. They were nothing more than a bunch of land and slave owning nobles who spent their days feasting and hunting and training.

Troy obviously

I want to say Athens just because of all the cultural output, but I hate way too many aspects of Athens.

I also really only know Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thebes, and the Ionian city states like Miletus.

What are so special about the others, particularly Syracuse, Megara, Argos, Samos, and Rhodes?

>>2507150
Argos was cool.

>>2507092
>went on to become Rome
>btfo greeks
Guess yer right, anon

>>2507092
Bronze Age Troy obviously wan't Greek

Syracuse

>you will never see the Colossus of Rhodes

(also my spell check literally didn't know the word "Colossus" and kept changing it because spell check is fucking retarded and they don't expect people to use phones for anything other than mundane texting bullshit between normies that don't use big words)

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Nýmphaion in Crimea, so you can fuck all the warrior bitches of Sarmatia till your dick turns blue

>>2505675
FUCK THAT AND THAT BITCH GORGO.

>>2507092
>Troy
>Greek

pick one. They spoke Luwian, not Greek.

From those you know probably Athens.
From the ones we keep secret, sorry can't tell

Thebes

>>2505670
Venice

Smyrna

>>2507150
Athens also established some sort of Aegean NATO

Massalia.

>>2508327
The golden age of pericles and the Delian league against the peloponnesean league and spartan, so basically nato vs sco with a twist of phillip the 2nd at the end

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>>2505675
I see you jizzing over Sparta and Hitler everyday on this board. Why do you feel the need to post in all caps and have an identity marker that says to the world "I spend all day on a Japanese fingerpainting forum"?

Saying that Sparta was the best Greek city-state is indefensible if you care about anything besides military proficiency

>>2505670
Reminder that athenian vassal city-states were obliged to use a democratic system, when they rebelled in favor of oligarchy, athenian fleet would sail to this island and burn everything down

>>2508361
Lol he is mad

>>2507035
Unless you're using the term "Western" as a synonym for "European" (Russia included), then Western civilization didn't begin until the early medieval period.

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Pontus and Macedonia.

>>2508375
Was Athens the first Murica?

>>2508361
Honestly, even their military proficiency is debatable.

>>2505670
Byzantium

>>2506188

Reverse you cuck.

>>2507150
>Syracuse
Was really rich and big. Was practically the boss-nigger of Magna Graecia. When Carthage ever tried to pull shit, it was Syracuse that cock-blocked them.
>Megara
Second-rate Corinth
>Argos
From our understanding, democratic like Athens. Nothing really special about it outside of being elusive when it came to being an ally to anyone--they didn't fucking participate in the Persian Wars, they were skittish with siding with anyone during the Peloponnesian War and many wars after.
>Samos
Lesser-Rhodos, but without notable philosophers and other artists present
>Rhodos
Lesser-Athens, but on a island and with inhabitants that were good slanging bullets.

>>2507092
The Trojans were Turkroaches, not Greeks.

>>2506873
Except, you know, the spartan commander of the greeks at playaea then getting a taste for luxury and boipussy who tried to turn himself into persian satrap. There are many cases of this

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>>2508494
>inhabitants that were good slanging bullets.

You aint never lied. Theyre almost as effective as Cretan archers.

>>2508361
aaww, did mommy forgot to give you your chicken tendies?

Pella

>>2508532
WE WUZ SLANGZ

>>2508626
go to bed, Olympias.

>>2508550
>tripfagging as 'Some fag'
I'd say reddit, but that's like memebase tier dude

Rome.

>>2508419
Honestly they were probably closer to the first Soviet Union, with Murica being closer to the oligarchic states.

Athens
>Plato
>Socrates
>Pericles
>Solon
>Cleisthenes
>Alcibiades
>Themistocles
>the list goes on
Sparta
>Lykurgus
>Leonidas
Others
>?

>>2508632
N SHIPS

>>2505670
Do Greco-fied cities count?
Athens
Rhodes
Ephesus
Thebes
Sparta
Halicanarsus
Byzantium
Knossos
Miletus

>>2509089

>be Athens
>lose war to Lacedaemon

1. Athens
2. Ephesus
in that order

>>2509089

Lykurgus probably didn't exist though, Sparta had a thing about inventing its own history in order to legitimate its power.

>>2508340

My nigga

Syracuse was the strongest, richest and was the most cultured before and after the Athenian golden-age.

>b-but they needed Sparta's help
Competence =/= Strength.

>>2509089
>Alcibiades
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a very long time

>>2505698
Syracuse

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Grecian Crimea as a whole was the best colonies they had senpai

>>2507171
Virgil take your fanfiction somewhere else

>>2505698
What, no love for Thebes and Corinth?

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>>2505670
Epirus

>>2508340
>>2509184
my niggas

>>2509289
>>2507258
Also my niggas

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>>2509145
>>2505675

>Be Sparta
>Have to do deals with Persia to get funds for boats after Athens BTFO's your fleet, takes 1/8th of your Spartiate population hostage and constantly raids your 'allies', whilst keeping an iron fist on their tributary states
>Even then the cost of the war was so much on your backwards ass society that you'd never again be relevant at all in any world history
>THAT Sparta

Yeah man thats totally the best city state, not the one that gave us democracy, the basis of western epistemic and normative philosophy, all the while subjugating shit tier polis' because not only are they the most culturally and intellectually advanced of the Dorian and Ionian peoples, but also they are all militarily experinced because of service in the navy and hoplite forces.

/his/ is shit tier and probs only took 1 history semester in highschool

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>>2505670
GET OUT OF MY WAY POLIS SHITS
TRUE SUCCESOR OF ALEXANDER COMING THROUGH

>>2510282
*cums*

>>2505670
all of them were shit
t.butthurt persian

>>2505670
The Roman Empire

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>>2510282
This thing right here is the TRUE succesor to Alexander's Empire

Epirus

>>2509743
Tell me more
Greek Colonies > Greek homelands

>>2505924
βάρβαρε*

>no one choosing selukia upon Tigris
Whilst part of the Parthian empire and literally opposite Ctesiphon it acted very much as a Greek city state, had its own law and internal rulers and payed homage to Arascids as it was a very beneficial relationship. Wasn't until the Romans sacked it it lost its exclusivity Hellenic character, the last true holdout of Hellenes in Mesopotamia

>>2507150
Argos' only output was putting a roof tile in Pyrrhus' head.

>>2511482
h i s t o r y

>>2505675
>be SPARTA.
>just chill you know regular stuff
>Athens subjegates half the Greek world
>liberate the Greek city states, but start war only as it was too late
Sparta is the best Polis, because it liberated all the other City States and it had a stable constitution.
Sparta saved the entire concept of the Polis in the Peloponnesian War.

>>2511992
>tfw you set Polis=Greek city state
won't happen again...

>>2509145
>be sparta
>don't give back amphipolis

>>2511992
>ally with the persians
>""""""liberate"""""

>>2505675
The Spartans were hardcore homosexuals and one of the best example how rampant homosexuality leads to the extincton of people

>>2505882
Periander sounds like a cool guy

>>2512197
Boy, girl, which difference in an asshole?

>>2505882
corinth was like sparta's little manlet friend who kept trying to pick fights with athens and just ran behind sparta when it came down to it

>>2512205
When your culture is based on enslaving your metics and you don't produce new warriors because you are too busy shagging Alexandros and not your wife, you should not be surprised when you get overthrown

Only real answer is athens. And maybe just maybe Syracuse cuss of their war machines.

>>2505670
Thebes was the best. They invented the theban phalanx which was used by Philip II and Alexander the Great.

>>2512524
Thebans got fucking destroyed by Philip II though.

>>2507195
Colossus is a big word...
For you.

Athens for philosophy.
Sparta for military.

Although the best horse riders came from Thessaly and the best archers from Crete.

>>2514720

Athens did lose a war to Sparta, but only because Sparta had to enlist the help of the Persians. Sea power best power.

>>2514720
sparta is proof that focusing on military above all else makes you trash

am i the only one who wishes the mediterranean was still blotched with hundreds of city states with some degree of autonomy from their countries?

>>2509572
cool and noteworthy
but they ain't no athens

>>2515314
This is how literally every civilization on earth should function

t. Libertarian

>>2508395
Western civilization by any definition starts in ancient Greece

yes Russia included, and the Frankish empire as well, as their civilization is a continuation of ancient greco-roman civilization

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>>2515314
Sounds like you have a problem with IMPERIVM

As a Greek, I can safely say that the best city-state would probalby be Corinth (Κόρινθος) and her best colony Syracause (Συραkούσαι). However all of this is irrelevant when compared to the glorious empires of the greeks like the successor kingdoms and the roman empire

>>2508494
>Samos
>without notable philosophers
>who is Melissus of Samos

I'm sure I'm also forgetting baout someone else

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>>2510670
It got better.

>>2505670
Rhodes was the best.

Athens and Sparta were insufferable cunts that noone outside of their borders liked, governing their """"empires"""" so badly that there were revolts against them like every other year. Corinth was the Greek Babylon, something like a failed Vegas, maybe. A city of whores, where money bought you just about everything, including human dignity. Syracuse wasn't that bad, though they weren't a lot better either.

Meanwhile Rhodes of the third century BC was respected by just about everyone, independent, governing her Island League so well that all member states willingly, readily and eagerly recognized her dominion, dictating marine law so splendidly that her laws passed on to Roman and Byzantine marine law codes. Rhodes wisely remained neutral in conflicts, became the greatest trading city of the time, but did not fall into degeneracy, treated her slaves well enough that in cases of danger she dared to arm them and did not fear a revolt.

Rhodes was so good, so necessary, so just and so well respected that when an earthquake destroyed the city in 225 BC the entire fucking Greek world sent tons of gold and resources to help them rebuild. We're talking equivalents of many billions of our modern dollars here.

So yeah, Rhodes were the best, screw Athenian anarchistic stupid rapidly-degenerating pseudodemocracy and Spartan oligarchy.

Massilia

>>2505670

kράτιστος!!

>>2516713
the Athenians couldn't help that the members of the Delian league didn't want to contribute soldiers

>>2516713
And they hosted this guy:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_Molon
Dude was such a good rhetorician that Cicero and Caesar came to his school to learn from him.

>>2509657
someone finally mentions the god of warfare himself

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Who else Rhodian master race here?

>>2517951
Han shot first

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>>2515314
I for one sure don't.

in the absence of a centralized authority profit wars were endemic. Your City-state marches you to war to fight and die so that the Oligarchs running the place can be a little bit wealthier, they don't care if your farm falls into bankruptcy while you were out on campaign, and if you get captured or defeated in battle you'd better hope your family has the money to pay the ransom or the rest of your short, miserable life will be spent in the rock quarry swinging a pick ax until you fall over dead from exhaustion.

Unitatus
Lex et Ordo
Imperium
in Perpetuum

>>2511453
Shit. Thanks mate.

>>2508498
people in anatolia back then were not turks, silly, they were much closer to greeks

>>2518748

I'd say more like Hittites. Our best guess as to what language they spoke was Luwian

>>2518674

who says there wouldn't be a centralized authority? the point is that there would be local authority and culture too, and every place would be managed to the best efficiency by people closer to the local affairs.