/ahg/ - Alternate History General

My favorite alt-history is the ones where Germany doesn't exist.

my favorite alt history is the one where the Soviet train across Europe doesn't stop and Stalin kills a German for every Soviet death (all of them)

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best day of my life

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>>2498329

delet

>>2498318
>>2498325
I'm not trying to Naziwank here, it genuinely interests me how it would have turned out for a country to try and repopulate such vast swathes of populated land in the modern day. It would be without a doubt the largest state project ever undertaken over the course of generations.

And then there's the whole question of the succession, whether Bormann's bureaucracy and Himmler's military cult could coexist

>>2498357

in order to repopulate would require the extermination of millions of people. That isnt worth being interested in seriously in any capacity.

>>2498309
>A German victory in WWII raises a whole lot of questions
Like how a nation that experienced record low birthrates 20 years before managed to have the population to win a war of attrition.

Spartacus leads his slave army to veneti territory, steals all their boats and gets blown off to Ireland where he establishes this weird multinational state that succesfully resists romano-Briton invasion and colonizes Iceland a few centuries early.

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>>2498401
No capital letters, thinks there's topics not worth thinking about
Checks out.

>>2498424
The only reason the Soviets could push into Germany that quickly was, because they recruited heavily in the liberated territories. It would have been possible for Germany to win a protracted war against the Soviet Union under certain not impossible circumstances (no lend lease, no genocidal policies feeding partisan movements, more competent German leadership, German intelligence in the SU).

>>2498309
Aztec and Inca states surviving in the modern day.

Drunk aliens fly down to earth around 300 bc and abduct 100 people from Athens, Rome, Gaul and Carthage each. They then deposit each group at different points around Australia and come back 300 years later.

>>2498445

>No capital letters, thinks there's topics not worth thinking about

salty desu

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>>2498318
>Halifax manages to negotiate a ceasefire between Britain and Germany
>Germany can throw everything against the Russians and pushes them back far further than in reality
>USA intervene with ground troops in he Soviet Union after the German declaration of war
>no other bases in Europe, strategic bomber raids are ineffective and get shut down hard
>millions of Americans die over the next years on the eastern front
>USA simultaneously drop 200 nukes on Germany using USA based B-36 and exterminate 90%+ of the Reich's population in 1947

If only....

>>2498445
>no lend lease
At best this would have stalemated the war.

>no genocidal policies feeding partisan movements
Contradicts their ideology

>more competent German leadership
That's a non answer.

>German intelligence in the SU
Considering the intelligence they did have was completely wrong and utterly worthless... I guess having anything relevant at all is an improvement.


Germany lost WWII in 1939.

>>2498445
all is fair in war

the SU leadership wasn't exactly competent either

>no genocidal policies
Without racial superiority ideology there would be no way to convince Germans to attempt a land war against the Soviet Union

>lend lease
insignificant

>>2498486
>lend lease
>insignificant
It permitted the USSR to motorize its logistics and transport capabilities, I wouldn't call that "insignificant". Although granted, what qualifies as "significant" is an opinionated statement.

>>2498476
>At best this would have stalemated the war.
The Russians would have lost a stalemate that saw at least a third population under German control. Contrary to what many people believe, the Soviet Union's population wasn't that much higher than the German one. My guess would be 130 million Soviets vs 90 million Germans in winter 1941/1942.

>Contradicts their ideology
Not at all, the Nazis were flexible and pragmatic if they felt that they needed to. See: Croatia, all those lies Hitler spouted that the British fell for.

>Germany lost WWII in 1939.
Bullshit hindsight. This is a "what if" question.

>>2498486
>insignificant
The German-Soviet war was hard fought and close at several points. Without lend lease, the Soviets would probably not have had the trucks to supply their offensives and would have had to deal with significantly less ammunition and other materiel. Sure, lend lease didn't stop the Germans in 1941, but the war wasn't won then, far from it.

>>2498309
Would be cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Germanic_Reich#Role_of_Northern_Italy

>>2498357
The US and Australia we only finished colonising about 50 odd years earlier

>>2498309
Play Wolfenstein New Order

>>2498510
>population
No see you're missing the point. It isn't population in and of itself. It's fighting age population. 1914-1918 saw most german men thrown to the frontlines and birthrates nosedive and not recover until the 20's, by 1939 these men would have been in their prime and ready to spearhead the assault on Russia.

However these men were never birn. Then there's Germany's whole problem of inadequate reserves and a chronically too small officer corps.

>Not at all
Bullshit, that's their goddamn lebensraum.

>Bullshit hindsight.
It is hindsight but it isn't bullshit. The axis was uncoordinated, uncooprtative and completely unprepared for a war of attrition.

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>>2498536
>1914-1918 saw most german men thrown to the frontlines and birthrates nosedive and not recover until the 20'
Was the situation better in Russia with civil war, famines and political purges?

>Bullshit, that's their goddamn lebensraum.
Doesn't mean you have to start burning down villages and executing women and children five minutes after the combat troops moved in.

>The axis was uncoordinated, uncooprtative and completely unprepared for a war of attrition.
Then how did they last 5 years? Drop the memes you learned it school, it wasn't that simple. Obviously the axis loses if everything happens as it did, but 1) what DID actually happen and how did it cause the outcome we know and 2) what variables can you tweak to change that outcome?

>>2498309
the one where hitler doesnt chimp out in 1939

>>2498536
>inadequate reserves
more like nonexistent reserves

>>2498550
>Was the situation better in Russia with civil war
Yes ironically.

>Doesn't mean you have to start burning down villages and executing women and children five minutes after the combat troops moved in.
No see, but they did. That was THEIR god damn lebensraum and THEY were on it goshniggeringdarnit.

>Then how did they last 5 years?
The victories of 1939-42. At the start of the war the overtly aggressive style of the Wehrmacht was a boon. As the war dragged on they failed to adequately adapt to the fact no one was doing retarded shit anymore.

>Drop the memes you learned it school, it wasn't that simple.
They don't teach that in school dumb dumb.
>what DID actually happen and how did it cause the outcome we know
You don't understand what did happen though this is my whole point.

>what variables can you tweak to change that outcome?
For germany to win? All of them basically.

>>2498309
>alt-history
This might be cool.

>HEY GUYS WORLD WAR II AND WHAT IF THE GERMANS WON
Kill yourself schnitzlenigger

>>2498462
>Abos get COLONIZED by medis thousand years earlier
This is gold

>>2498309
>Germany won ww2
>Switzerland still exists

Yeah, no, the Nazis were planning to partition it with France and Italy, only the ongoing war stopped them.

>>2498632
Hey I opened the thread for you to suggest whatever you wanted. What really interests me isn't whether they could have won the war but what the politics of the situation would have been afterward. Hitler clearly wasn't going to hold true power for much longer if reports on his health are to be believed, so the factionalism between the Bormann civil service, Himmler SS, non-ideological army and the rest of the government I think is an interesting topic to explore. We have no idea how these individuals would handle the conquered East, the Soviet rump state, peace with the West, the relationship with Japan, control of the European axis, post-war domestic policy etc.

>>2498309

Holy shit, can we do some alternate history that doesn't involve WWII for once?

>>2498462
best idea in this thread.

As for me, I'd like to see how things would've turned out if Constantine didn't make the Roman Empire christian.
Also, would like to see Marcus Aurelius not leave the empire in the hands of an incompetent retard.

>>2498646
Aborginals would have raped their shit.

>>2498671
What if the American revolution failed?

>>2498677
Abos would've been slaved the fuck out

And, eventually, the transported Mediterraneans would die out and the Australians would be right back at flinging shit at eachother

What would have happened if dissatisfied and dishonored chinese nobles colonized the western coast of NA in the 13th century?

>>2498688
There would be native american countries today.

>>2498735
I bet Britain (including the original 13 colonies) would end up annexing the sparsely populated French colonies and going all the way west, doubt they annex the Mexican territories though.

There would probably be less of an American identity as much as a regional and state identity, The empire would collapse after WW1 when the relative power of Britain is showed to be weaker than it's north American territories but still be very close allies and would fight in WWII together.

>>2498688

Honestly, in some ways it can't. Even if the Revolutionaries can't fight worth a damn and go bankrupt and the Continental congress is hanged on lamp-posts (Did they have lamp-posts in the late 18th century?), the costs of occupying an area as big as the 13 colonies enormously outweighs any benefit gained from holding onto the area.

Most likely, you'd get some sort of devolution and local government, and while tighter cultural and economic ties would ensue, you'd have a fair amount of local autonomy. I mean hell, the Carlisle Peace Commission offered autonomous rule in 1778, and the war was a long, long way from being over at that point.

>>2498309
According to Hitler it would look like this:

"The German colonist ought to live on handsome, spacious farms. The German services will be lodged in marvellous buildings, the governors in palaces. Beneath the shelter of the administrative services, we shall gradually organise all that is indispensable to the maintenance of a certain standard of living. Around the city, to a depth of thirty to forty kilometres,we shall have a belt of handsome villages connected by the best roads. What exists beyond that will be another world, in which we mean to let the Russians live as they like. It is merely necessary that we should rule them. In the event of a revolution, we shall only have to drop a few bombs on their cities, and the affair will be liquidated. Once a year we shall lead a troop of Kirghizes through the capital of the Reich, in order to strike their imaginations with the size of our monuments. What India was for England, the eastern territories will be for us." (Hitler's Table Talk, August 1941)

>tfw no HRE
>tfw no large enough Hungary
>tfw no big france along the Rhine

>>2499909
>yfw all of nazi germany didn't even want displacement, just german colonization.

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>tfw u will never live in the timeline where /pol/ shitposted Bernie into the presidency and /his/ is a bunch of status quo monarchy shills

>>2498441
underrated

>>2498521
I remember that game fondly...

>>2498551
this is the überpost

>>2498695
And the abos would still have huffed their olive oil.

>>2498329
this looks amazing
t. amazed frog hater

>>2498703
Literally no one else has thought of this, except some guy on youtube. I think his name is emperortigerstaralt

>>2498309
>Alt His thread
>Nazi win again
Boring try to came up with something fresh

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>>2498551
That would've required the German economy to reverse direction and embrace austerity instead of autkary.

Also all those unpaid MEFO bills used to fund rearmament... Really, there's no situation where Germany doesn't go to war sometime in 1938-1945.

>>2500602
>there's no situation where Germany doesn't go to war sometime in 1938-1945.
Well, not with Hitler around anyway. Without him the NSDAP would implode and who knows what would come out on top.

Central Powers victory in WW1. Victory is marked by a full-blown invasion of England and the complete destruction of the British Empire, and the aftermath results in a unification of Germany with every single German nation save Belgium, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and maybe Denmark. The New German Empire then ensures the independence of Ukraine and the Baltic States, and thus they and the Soviet Union are the world's two greatest superpowers until the US becomes the third harvesting all the pieces of the British Empire.

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>>2500908
>aftermath results in a unification of Germany with every single German nation save all of these non-german nations

1863

France offers to stage a southern invasion of the Confederacy in exchange for the Union agreeing to recognize and help legitimize the Second Mexican Empire.

Fearing the possibility of renewed French imperialism in the Americas, Great Britain entreats with the rebels and stages an intervention via Canada. They also take this opportunity to attempt an annexation of Alaska.

Through French politicking, Alexander II is encouraged to mount a defense of Russia's colonial holdings in North America and mounts a substantial marine landing in the Pacific Northwest.

Seven Years War pt. 2 go go go

>>2498329
this

>>2500974
Holy fuck, my cock is rock solid.

My favorite is where Wilhelm II dies in childhood and the German Empire finalizes turning into a Constitutional Monarchy. New King tells A-H to fuck off, lets it collapse to absorb Austria, and the West remains in its glory days.

>>2502493
Good anon, you made semi-non-arbitrary lines in the desert. From 1/10 to 7/10

>>2501762
or alternatively, his very reform minded older brother doesnt die of throat cancer in the FIRST MONTH of his rain

harald hardrada wins against william and harold

My favourites are Latin Britain not Saxon and Saxon England not Norman.

So less germanic influence on Britain in the 500s resulting is a more Latin population similar to the other Romance countries.

Or a Saxon victory at Hastings with Harold and his brothers dying of their wounds after the battle and Edgar of Wessex being elected King.

>>2503995
>wanting a more romance britain
>Not wanting superior germanic island

>>2504254
>Not wanting a future were a reformed Western Roman Empire is possible

>>2504268
>Western Roman Empire
>In Britain

>>2504288
France and England were once almost united, France and Spain were once also almost united.

is there any relationship between the fall of the Ottoman Empire and general unrest in the Middle East? Because maybe that would be a cool change.

>>2500974
Fuck me ww1 50 years early

How about the Catholics are the undisputed victors in the Thirty Year's War, capturing and killing Gustav II early on, dissuading France form entering on the Protestants' side? Before going on to crush the rebelling Princes and Dutch.

>>2500974
Whoever Prussia sides with wins on the Continent, the Ottomans are a nonfactor, and if the German states team up then either Russia or France are up a creek. Spain only matters if it agrees to give the French Caribbean basing rights.

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Why do people believe one or two small things would have changed the outcome of the world war 2?

Why do they continue to think Germany was some bastion of ultra-tech and efficiency cheated out of victory by zerg rushes and General Motors?

They planned for world war poorly, they consistently fucked up intelligence, failed to adequately coordinate with allies and their r&d was bloated and inefficient. Yet anons and normies still believe a few corrections here and there, a few men in the right places, a few decisions going the other way and boom, the nazis win.

It's fucking ridiculous.

It's why alternate history is so often such a joke, people make changes not fully understanding what led to the original path.

>>2498309
German victory in WW1 would be way more interesting desu

Heres an idea I had.
What if you went back in time and switched the prophet muhammad and genghis khan at birth?
Would it change anything?

>>2504869
Muhammads dad would probably stone his wife and her mongol son to death.

Jesus never becomes a prophet and Christianity doesn't exist. Meanwhile, Buddhist monks travel west from India and spread Buddhism through the Roman Empire, where it becomes the largest religion around

>>2498309
Fuck off back to /pol/

>>2498357
They were already trying, however the german settler colonies were failing miserably
It wouldn't have worked out, Nazi Germany's empire would have collapsed within the next decades

>>2505572
>Ezo
that would require an absolute miracle

Someone post the mandatory modern ISrael map, to combat >>2505569

>>2500974
>>2504346
Amidst the chaos, Russia and Prussia form an alliance to crush the Austrian Empire. The Prussians are seeking primacy over the German Confederation and Schleswig-Holstein in particular, whilst Russia still nurses a vendetta over Austria abandoning them at the onset of the Crimean War.

In response, the Ottomans form a loose coalition with Britain and Austria, fearing a regional hegemony if Prussia is able to unite the German states under a single government. A special economic relationship with Britain lends unforseen power to the Tanzimat reforms and staves off the creation of various nationalist constitutions throughout the Empire.

As tensions rise, Great Britain steps up their material support for the Imperial House in Japan. France responds by completely reconfiguring the organization and armament of the Tokugawa Shogunate, including the addition of several modern battleships.

>>2498309
>Greater Gerrmany
>Switzerland Exists

The only thing Hitler hated more than actual Jews were the Mountain Jews.

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>gr8 powers fight over assassination of Abraham Lincoln instead of Franz Ferdinant
>central asia and the alaskan territories become the trenches
>experimental gatling gun technology

i wiah a nigga would

>>2500908
>Victory is marked by an invasion of England

There's a difference between Alt-history and wanking. What you're doing is wanking.

Best case scenario for Germany in the great war is a french collapse leading to Britain taking their ball and going home. Slightly more realistic is some sort of negotiated peace that recognizes German gains in the east.

>>2503063
If I pressed a button and this happened immediately, I would expect maybe 5 countries making it in the end, eating up the rest. Some of them don't have the population or economic impact to survive on their own or even get a protector. That's why Russia is so big in the first place.

>>2498309
The one where an alliance of alternative Worlds where Rome never fell vs an alliance of Alternative worlds where the Nazis won

>>2506192
*masturbates at a rate yet undocumented*

>>2506192
But who would wanna kill Lincoln,and for what purpose?
It cant be Oswald. An early world war doesnt occur because a US national kills a US president. Which of the players in this scenario would want to kill Lincoln and how would that spark a world wide conflict? Doesnt work m8.

>>2506369
Damn I didn't think of that. Who gave a fuck about 1860s USA? Who could have such a lust for revenge for the confederacy?

whooo?

>>2506378
Literally no one.

Franz Joseph is killed in 1853 and Maximilian is crowned emperor. A known reformer and liberal, he reforms the military after the loss at Koniggratzer, and transformers the empire into a federal monarchy (Along similar lines to what Franz Ferdinand planned to do).

>>2498329
Burgundy is good
Britanny is meh
The rest is complete shit

>>2498329
Either give southeast France to Burgundy, or have an independent state of Provence or some shit. Occitania shouldn't go east of Montpelier.

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>>2504745
You're in luck, there's a very detailed and popular mod called Kaiserreich about exactly that.

>>2498445
I feel like a lot of these arguments depend on the idea that the USSR just throws in the towel with the loss of Moscow. In reality, the gommies had started the movement of factories east of the Urals in the early 1940s and it was in full swing by the time of Barbarossa. Even had Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad et al fallen from 1941-1943 the USSR still had plenty of industry, land, manpower and political will to continue the fight (especially since the alternative was genocide - a fact heavily emphasised by gommie propaganda)

>>2506378
See >>2500974 for inspiration.

Maybe you could work French meddling in Mexico into the mix...if I recall correctly, Maximilian I invited numerous ex-Confederates to come join his empire, but it never really materialized into anything. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine, though, that in his desperation he upped the ante to a "forty acres and a mule" type deal. This could lead to a significant (and French backed) Confederate enclave just south of the border. As the Union starts to put pressure on the Empire and sends additional support to Juarez via funds and filibusters, maybe a Franco-Mexican plot emerges.

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>>2505688
This?

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An alternate Europe in 1920 after the Firrst World War. The Treaty of Vienna is much harsher on the french, leading to the UK, Prussia, Austria/Bavaria and Russia each occupying a quarter of France. Britain never lets go, resulting in the creation of the Kingdom of Aquitaine, A British puppet; Austria and Bavaria end up forming a union encompassing all the South german states as well as Hungary and Veneto; the Russians end up collapsing after several rebellions in their quarter of France (Paris and the centre country) decimate their army, leading to many costly military missions which bankrupt their nation; and finally, Spain, which loses Catalonia in the civil wars of the 19th century, including the small occupational zone in the Mediterranean.

There is a lot more WW1 backstory, but I can´t be arsed to post it right now

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>>2506479
There are a few non wanky ways how germany wins in the east:

For example:

(mostly) Peace in our time:
There is no Dunkirk. BEF is captured and GB fails in sinking the french fleet. The huge invasion paranoia and the huge losses of france lead to a ceasefire and later on a full on peace agreement between GB and the Reich. The Reich is able to trade freely and thus has to suffer no resource shortages. Lend and lease also isn't happening.

East stalemates and time works for the germans. SU isn't able to pull of decisive counterattacks and in the end a ceasefire with huge german gains.

>>2498318

i'm new to /his/ , but it's refreshing to see this opinion on 4chan.

are you gay? jewish? polish? russian? mentally ill? retarded? communist?

>>2506443
ethnic cleansing and occitanisation of the local population

>>2506737
Are Finland and Estonia one country?
Why is Ingria still in Russia's hands, when Poland is so large?

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>>2507377
Estonia is an autonomous region of Finland, having opted to join Finland in exchange for their support in the war of Independence in 1919, at the height of the great war. Together they form the Khanate of Finland, one of the three confederations of the world.
The other one is the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithhuania-Ruthenia-Couronia, which after the Great war defeated the rapidly crumbling Russian Empire and annexed a large chunk of territory east of the Dnieper, which is currently an autonomous region along with the smaller states of Riga and Livonia.
Ingria is just ethnically Russian, so they have no reason to revolt.

>>2506737
Why is Hungary so small

>>2507130
>are you gay? jewish? polish? russian? mentally ill? retarded? communist?
You pretty much named the entire NSDAP upper echelon right here.

>>2507055
>The huge invasion paranoia and the huge losses of france lead to a ceasefire and later on a full on peace agreement between GB and the Reich.


That is a huge nest of assumptions with pretty small basis, especially since the fleet sunk at Mers El Kebir can't realistically leave the Mediterranean.

>>2507651
M*gyars do not deserve their own country

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>>2507677
I see it's pretty much restricted to 17th century Hungary more or less.

>>2507694
That's Slovakia

>>2507707
>Slovakia
>>>/x/

>>2507730
Slovakia>>>>>Mongol scum

>>2505383
This, but add belgium, luxemburg and Lille to the Netherlands.

>>2500908
Wow you really have it in for Britain don't you.

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>>2505688
This one?

>>2508845
Denmark is pretty qt

>>2504888
Okay lets say we make them undergo plastic surgery to look exactly the like the other.
What now?

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>>2506446

>Kaiserreich

Mein Neger.

>>2498309
I like to think about what happened if the French Commune won and survived

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People always post alternate political situations, but I like speculating about different religious outcomes. Here's a scenario where the early Church wasn't quite as good at stamping out heresies.

>>2510243
is mosley a commie in kaiserreich or something?

>>2510258
Shade Rome with Milthraism and everywhere with Gnosticism. It will be more accurate

>>2510301
Gnosticism and Mithraism were never really organised, I considered them, but Marcionism, Arianism, and Nestorianism were a much more coherent movements and more likely to survive by themselves. Arianism was endangering the orthodoxy of the day up to the 600s.

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>>2510266

Yes and no. He's a 'totalist', a 'totalitarian socialist' which seems to be a mixture of bolshevism and Mussolini's fascism he cooked up with Bukharin, Mussolini, Béla Kun, Georges Valois and Chandra Bose.

In our timeline, Mussolini had strong leftist sympathies early in his life, but turned far right. In Kaiserreich, Mosley turns towards the far left. Also, in Kaiserreich, Eric Blair may become Mosley's right hand man, becomes an Orwellian dictator and a fanatic leftist zealot who advocates the development of atomic weaponry to be used against the enemies of the working class.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEKYQ4GOqmk

>>2507639
>Ingria is just ethnically Russian
Did they ethnically cleanse it or what?
Ingria is inhabited by the orthodox Votes and Izhorians, and the lutheran Finnish Ingrians.

Although yeah, by the 20th century these people had become minorities due to russification. Finland would still most likely support any sort of nationalism in this region.

>>2510266
Are you implying he wasn't pinker than a raw porkchop in real life?

The one where Seward is killed during the assassination attempt in 1865, and we go to war with Russia over Alaska.
Naval warfare with tin and ironclads made from ships in San Francisco, against Russian s in the inner passage, the English/Canadians really trying to stay neutral.

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>>2498309
During the Middle Ages all of Eurasia was part of a single Slavo-Turcik Empire. Russian Czars and Mongol Khans were one and the same and ruled over the diverse peoples of Eurasia and this brought peace and stability to the continent.
Moscow was Rome and the monarchs of Europe were local governors of the Russian-Horde Empire.

But the local governors of the Western provinces eventually rebelled and this was the real cause of the 30 years war. The "Reformation" was not against the ""Catholic" power in the Rome of Italy (which was really founded in the 13th century AD) but against the authority of Moscow, the third Rome. Western Catholicism was still a branch of Orthodoxy until the late 16th century. The "reformers" eventually won and installed the puppet Romanov dynasty in Moscow.

Great Tartaria was a remnant of this once great empire, where Slavs and Turk peoples lived in harmony, but it was eventually conquered by the Romanovs and China. It was the refugee of the last forces loyal to the Russian Horde Empire. They were the ones that rebelled against the traitorous Romanovs during the Pugachev rebellion.

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>>2498309
Here's the setup for a mod I'm working on for Victoria 2.

>>2510451
>Did they ethnically cleanse it or what?
Yes. In the late 19th century with the constant unrest in the Northern provinces, especially after Finland won independence after the Great rebellion of 1873, tens of thousands of farmers left their marginal lands to go to St. Petersburg. With city authorities unable to provide for all of the farmers, it was decided to give the matter to the local governor to solve, who ruled that the displaced farmers were to be given large swathes of land in Ingria. Flourty years pass and most of the original inhabitants have been chased out, with the population of Ingria going from 200k people, thereof 20% Russian, to 150k people, 85% of them Russian.

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784KB, 5616x2160px

Reposting my idea of a future where the EU is overrun by Muslims

>>2511540
Your idea is shit, and so is your map.

>>2508845
>Italy neutral
Apart from that I actually unironically like this
Ireland always makes me giggle