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Africa

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Thread replies: 325
Thread images: 28

Has Africa always struggled with poverty, throughout history? If yes, why? It's the opposite of what I would expect from a continent that is so rich in natural resources.
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>>24855
Great Zimbabwe
The Dogon culture
pretty much everything on the Nile
Carthage
all the shit you've never bothered to learn about

Whereas of course the Nordic races have revelled in untold riches from day one

see >>24832 and sick a dick, /pol/tard
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>>24899

I would believe you, but I'm going to need written sources here. Oral history is great, but only when it is backed up by written sources. North Africa is different, of course, and isolated from Africa-proper.
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>>24690
corruption, tribal mentality, lack of educaion, low morals, plus a whole tonne of geographical shit - like crops not growing, or the seeds not actually being there (i.e. it's hard to feed a stable population when weat wont grow in a desert

I'd say it's a mix of africans being (on average) genetically/biologically shit (including intelligence) and the actual area not having ports, etc

I mean yeah there are resorces but it's no good when you live in some desert 234567590432km away

plus there isn't much water in a lot of it

also a lot of tribal religion, and colonialism didn't really do that much good
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>>24899
>The Dogon culture
That doesn't count, they got it from (white) aliens.
http://humansarefree.com/2014/10/the-amazing-history-of-dogon-tribe.html
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Capitalism ruined it all.
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>>24947
>That doesn't count, they got it from (white) aliens
is this bait or is /his/ really this doomed?
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>>24899
>Carthage
They were semites not Africans they only lived in Africa
Also the Great Bazinga isn't particularly impressive, it's less advanced than ruins on Sicily from 2000 years earlier and is only celebrated because Africa doesn't really have these kind of ruins
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>>24930
>desert
>>
literally everywhere on earth has struggled with poverty throughout histry
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>>24690
aside from some rare exceptions through history africa has always been shit
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>>24690
Africa used to be considered very wealthy in what we now call the middle East (Egyptians Morocco ect.) And also a few other parts
>Europe conquering and dividing Africa up regardless of the tribes
>they all started fighting each other idky
>now its a poop whole because of such animosities among tribes

Rbh Africa is really is the bad spot it is because they didn't know how too work together as all natives when being invaded..
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Need to limit the area a bit.. Africa is fuck huge. There's huge differences in Europe and in Africa.

>Has Africa always struggled with poverty, throughout history?
Kinda loaded question, as if any other continent hasn't struggled with that exact same problem. The huge difference in living conditions between west and rest of the world is product of last 100 years, go back 1000 years and your average european fellow didn't live in any luxury.
North Africa is somewhat developed, and has historically been very rich area (Carthage, etc) and a lot of the time richer than Europe.

It's the middle part (subsaharan) that is the problematic part of Africa. And one of the reason could be geographical location. When world started trading the large distances of Africa kept them out trade, apart from coast where some very rich port cities were founded. Now I know people hate blaming colonialism, but it did take its toll on Africa, less about the stolen resources, but more of the fucked up borders Europeans which didn't respect African cultural borders at all. That's why you have African states in civil war and breaking in half now (Congo, Sudan)
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>>25066
>rare exceptions through history
Like what?
>>
We can't ignore IQ as an explanation anymore,intelligence has been long confirmed for being mainly genetic and education having little to no effect over it.
Inb4 /pol/ I'm saying this as someone who studies genetics,we cannot just ignore the awful IQ scores of Africans and their diaspora.
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>>25129
i would say egypt but we all know they were sand people and thus not african...
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>>25157
>posting in 4chan
>claim that he went to the school
we are all autists here
>>
>>24690

No, the west created a population bubble that Africa wasn't ready for.
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>>24690
since whites colonized and tried to make Africa like Europe.

Africans didn't have to develop technologies or big cities to survive. They had everything they needed to thrive right on the land and didn't need permanent structures to protect them from winter.

Then euros came with their technologies and introduced pandora's box to them, and they have been struggling to learn 300 years of technological advances in what euros did in 1200 years
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>>25157
/pol/fag here, dude yes IQ differences exist but there are so much more relevant, critical reasons as to why Africa is so shit.
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>>25157

People are too afraid to talk about it, scientists and sociologists seem to either silently acknowledge it or talk in circles to explain it away.
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>>25157
>>25330
An easy way to spot people who don't know what they're talking about.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/HBD/comments/17g8vz/how_i_got_banned_from_raskhistorians/

>Reddit
I know, but he answers your question OP.
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>>25401
Kek. He was BTFO in the comments.
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>>25279
>but there are so much more relevant, critical reasons as to why Africa is so shit.
I mean, this sounds nice but it's really not the case, except that low intelligence produces shitty environments (read: environments that cultivate stupidity).
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>>25444
He counters arguments in the comments head-on.
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>>25377
Have a read humanities troglodyte http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614000889
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>>24812
Implying whites didn't rape Africa for everything it had
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Does africa have any non-tropical trees thats good for construction and shaping? I feel like a lot of European inventions involved wood of some kind.
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'Rich in natural resources' is a bogus meme. Most of Africa is a dusty sun-baked waste good for little else besides pastoralism without intensive use of modern technology (irrigation, chemical fertilizers and pesticides, etc.)
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>>24690
The whole world was desperately poor until about 1750 let's say. Then Britain started getting rich, then the rest of Europe caught up, then Asia in the 20th century. Why is Africa not caught up your asking?
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>>25444
No really,those comments are cringeworthy,they treat genetics as a barely irrelevant co-factor in human behavior.That's burning witches at the stake levels of anti science,genetics and biology are the basis of everything humans do.
I wish I had the power ¡to kill humanities students by channeling my disgust towards my monitor.
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>>24899
>we wuz kings n shit
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>>24690
north africa had some good times the roman era for northern africa was better than most of europe. We also had some great times in islamic era when piracy and our merchants were super strong but when the spaniards started to get pissed off and the ottomans controlled piracy things got worse. for sub sahara africa ethipio was wealthy and had some influne before islam but the arab merchants made them less irrelevant in the region Some west african empires like mali and songhai did have some recourses but they were inferrer to the north African kingdoms

>>25007
tunisian here :D The Carthaginians mixed alot with the locals allied with them and used in them in war
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>>25649
>Tunisian here
It doesn't matter m8 Carthage was over 2000 years ago you don't have anymore knowledge of Carthage than I do. It's like I lectured you about Abos from 2000 years ago because I know these things as an Australian.
>>
european imperialism set them back a lot. ite environment itself is one of the most hostile to humans, with disease, predators and extreme weather. not only that, but it also isolated the established people from the eurasian conflicts throughout history, and so it kept them from gaining a lot of the technology. they also lacked a lot of the basic things that gave europeans and asians a head start, like domesticable animals and easy access to mineral deposits to forge tools.
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>>24690
start reading:
https://books.google.com/books?id=hxmQ2W-yGiwC&pg=PA318&dq=thomas+sowell+africa+%22one+of+the%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAGoVChMI9KXLkfbuyAIVhTc-Ch239g_h#v=onepage&q=thomas%20sowell%20africa%20%22one%20of%20the%22&f=false
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>>25649
>tunisian here :D
And?
Fuck off.
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>>25550
...Yes? More than half the fucking continent has some kind of forest on it.
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>>25687
well i just read alot about it for the fun m8
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>>25705
rude
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>>25008
More than half of Africa is desert idiot
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Native sub-saharans may have lower IQ than let's say europeans but this is most certainly not the only reason of their poverty. And what do you even consider to be poverty? Sub-saharan africans did not achieve the same levels of technological progress as others but they had their way of life and they did fine. Big problem was the desert Sahara becoming a desert, it wasn't always like that. If it weren't for that barrier contact with sub-saharans would be achieved way earlier and this would, I assume, result in much faster technological progress for them.

>>25592
you're gonna have to meme harder than that
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>>25592
Mali was the largest gold producer in 13th and 14th century.
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>>24690
Every country has struggled with poverty. Africa was probably not much worse off than Europe was before the industrial revolutionary in terms of poverty
Some places in Africa were wealthy and stable, pic related
But blacks generally have lower intelligence so that probably contributes too (there are intelligent black communities too)
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>>25770
When i visited Mali i was disappointed they literally dont have anything interesting from their "great age" no big city walls no souks no old fancy houses .....
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>>25649
Does that map adjusts for wealth distribution ? :^)
North Africa was high income because that's where most of the agricultural production came from,we have no way of telling how the average Gaius lived,judging by the amount of infraestructure left behind I'd say Anatolia was the richest part of the empire or at least tied with Italy.
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For the most part, besides a few false-start civilisations and minor civilisations here and there, African societies always teetered on the line of subsistence.

Africa is rich in certain resources, particularly minerals, but without a certain level of civilisation, who needs tantalum? or tin? As for agriculture, natively very few food crops exist in africa, I can only think of Yams and Sorghum/Millet. In the tropical regions of Africa, you suffer from many more crop-failing parasites than in Europe (where winter's frost protects seeds), which causes lower yields and less potential to store crops.

Similarly Africa also suffered from disease, like Tsetse flies by the great lakes, or Malaria in most regions, significantly lowering life expectancy.

Many people will just say 'NIGGERS', which is sort of the wrong way round, IF black people are less intellectually endowed (on average), than it would be because of these conditions, these are conditions which do not favour the replication of intellectual traits.

Despite this there was some level of organisation, resource extraction, even low-level industry and extensive trade networks in different parts of Africa prior to colonialism.
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>>25800
this is in mali >>25798
Did you go when the conflict was going on?
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>>25800
There is a war going on there for some long time, lots of shit got demolished and burnt down.
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>>24690
>so rich in natural resources.
You haven't heard about Barrick Gold haven't you OP?
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>>25822
its just some ebin map that i posted in /int/ for shitposting
>>25840
do you really think thats impressive my 100 m local mosque is better than it and its basically the only monument they had and when i went its was full of poor people begging for money
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>>25852
How much poverty exactly do you think was in Europe? For the vast amount of history almost everyone lived in poverty. Fuck off retard
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>>25751
NOPE
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/K-12/adib_africa.html
Less than half, you fucking retard.
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>>25852
Even in the late 19th century, British people were astounded by how great life seemed in Buganda, spawning all kinds of Crazy theories, and some pretty good pulp novels.
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>>25751
This best be b8
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>>25751
Did you fail geography?
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>>25798
Do you realize the building you posted was completed in the year 1907?
This was built in 1626 to put things in perspective
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>>25913
>>25852
>>25898
Not a pro-white people guy or anything, but simply put disease and crop yields in africa are systematically worse than disease and crop-yields in europe.

Europe has always had greater material well being than most of Africa.

also for all the 'MUH GOLD' fags.
Google a resource-curse. Even in the medieval ages, basing your economy on gold was a dumb idea.
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>>25798
>finds one historical building in Africa
>is sand castle

You can't make this shit up.
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>>25936
>Sankore Madrasah
>1907
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>>25963
The Great Lakes of Africa: Two Thousand Years of History, Jean-Pierre Chrétien, translated by Scott Straus, Zone Books, 2003.

Tell me friend: What are your sources for the agricultural development for the Kingdom of Buganda?
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>>25962
>disease and crop yields in africa are systematically worse than disease and crop-yields in europe
Wow.
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>>24690
"Sub-Saharan Africa has some of the most tragic geographic handicaps of any region of the world. Navigable waterways, which have been crucial to the development of nations and of cultures, are severely limited in most of Africa. Poor soil and inadequate and undependable rainfall patterns shrink the possibilities still further.

Ideologues love to think of African poverty as caused by "exploitation" on the part of Western countries. But, with a few notable exceptions, Africa has had little to be exploited. Even at the height of European imperialism, there was far less foreign trade or foreign investment in the whole vast continent of Africa than in a little country like Belgium or Switzerland.

In more recent times, so-called "foreign aid" has left many monuments of futility in Africa, from rusting machinery and the ruins of many projects to cows sent from Europe that keeled over in the African heat.

With all its handicaps, Africa used to feed itself and even export agricultural produce to Europe. In some of the more geographically favored parts of sub-Saharan Africa, iron was smelted thousands of years ago."
Part 1/?
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>>25898
Are you American? have you seen European preserved medieval cities? look at these mudhuts man!
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>>25984
>>26006
>implying this isn't the case
>implying the majority of african soil is well suited for agriculture
>implying africa isn't chocked full of parasitic fungi and insects, that fuck up your yields, the equivalents of which get btfo by the frost in europe
>implying crop yields in the jungle are greater than in temperate areas
>implying crop yields in the savanna are greater than in temperate areas
>implying you can store food when you don't have silos or fridges and its 25 degrees every single day
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>>26049
Townfolks were 0,001% of the population and they werent too rich as well. Rest of the population were villagers who were barely able to afford food because they were working for free and sometimes getting a small pay to get some porridge. The cities look like this because the nobility was indeed rich and they organised and builded those places.
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>>25936
Yes, there were buildings in that style that were much older
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>>26042
"During the first two decades after African nations gained their independence in the 1960s, one sub-Saharan nation that stood out with its economic prosperity and political stability amid economic disasters and social catastrophes among its neighbors was the Ivory Coast under President Felix Houphouet-Boigny.

Yet neither the Ivory Coast nor its leader attracted nearly as much attention, much less adulation, as was showered on Julius Nyerere in Tanzania, Kwame Nkrumah in Ghana, or other big-name African leaders who led their countries into ruin.

The Ivory Coast in those days relied on markets instead of the kind of policies and rhetoric that the intelligentsia favored. When its policies changed, it became just another African basket case.

Today, too many people in the West continue to see Africa as an outlet for the visions and policies of the left that have failed in the West and are even more certain to fail in Africa."
2/?
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>>26078
Yet there is nothing that comes anywhere near it, in Sub-Saharan Africa.
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>>26049
Holy shit you fucking retard. You act like your common peasant was living in a castle
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>>26101
"Nature and man have combined to make Africa the most tragic of the continents -- and the men who did this have been both black and white.

The great French historian Fernand Braudel said, "In understanding Black Africa, geography is more important than history." Much of Africa's history was in fact shaped by its geography.

Almost every great city in the world has arisen on navigable waterways -- and such waterways are more scarce in Africa than in any other continent. An aircraft carrier can dock on the Hudson River in midtown Manhattan but there is not a single river where that is possible on the vast continent of Africa, which is larger than Europe or North America.

Even smaller boats can travel only a limited distance on most African rivers because of cascades and waterfalls. Most of the continent is more than 1,000 feet above sea level and more than half of Africa is more than 2,000 feet above sea level. That means its rivers and stream must plunge down from those heights on their way to the sea.

Water transport was crucial in the thousands of years before there were trains or automobiles. It was crucial for developing an economy and crucial for developing a culture in touch with enough other widely scattered cultures to make use of advances in the rest of the world. But many African societies have been isolated by that continent's dearth of both navigable rivers and harbors."
3/?
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>>26030
Nigga, Africa is hot as fuck, its thriving with bacteria, fungi, insects and so on.

You can't catch sleeping disease in Europe, You don't get elephantitis (caused by some parasitic worm thing) in europe etc etc etc
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>>25936
This was built in 650 A.C
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>>26044
I'm honestly not even racist but I just hate hypocrisy. We all know when we think of great civilizations we don't think of Africa, when we look for a nice neighborhood or school that means few blacks and our prisons are filled with blacks. I'm not here to argue why they're like that but to pretend we are all equal is just bullshit hippy trash. Blacks are better at sports, whites are better at intellectual stuff, why is it controversial to admit these things? It's not wrong to say that certain dogs are smarted or have certain traits but we can't do it for people because they might get their feewings hurt :((
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>>24977
No, he's not.
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>>26138
You are so fucking stupid. Bubonic plague killed over half of the European population.
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>>26147
are you implying that medieval peasants had a good life?
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>>26147
There you go a 1200 years old african city
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>>26148
So your arguments are 2 sand castles and a picture of a sand castle? You really should look up what Europe was doing at the same time. Be honest, are you black?
>>
>OP wants to have a discussion about Africa
>turns into a dick waving contest about europe

Is this is how /his/ is going to be?
>>
No, Africa has always been rich. East Africa was rich thanks to the Indian Ocean, North Africa thanks to the Mediterranean. West Africa thanks to resources, in fact, the richest man who ever lived came from there.

The two odd ones out are Central Africa and South Africa, the latter of which was not populated and the former which was probably quite poor. Muslim colonization strengthened most of these states, but the eventual European colonization drained them of all their wealth and left them in a poor state to utilize what they have.

This is the MONETARY situation, I'm not even going to touch on ethics and slavery.
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>>26186
Yes but bubonic plague lasted for like what? 10 years max?

African diseases never went away, they just continually keked africans.

There is a difference between lots of people dying in one go, and lots of people dying all the fucking time, my man.
>>26169
>Me
>Black

>try to have a legitimate discussion of history
>/pol/ responses
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>>26019
That's the mosque of Djenné you massive fucking retard
>>26078
>Townfolks were 0,001% of the population
Proofs?
> Rest of the population were villagers who were barely able to afford food because they were working for free and sometimes getting a small pay to get some porridge
Proofs?
>The cities look like this because the nobility was indeed rich and they organised and builded those places.
Nobles did not live in those houses m8,they lived in castles.
Pic related,a medieval republican city free of feudal shits.
>>
>>26205
We're talking about Sub-Saharan you shitbrain
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>>26125
"Isolated regions have almost invariably lagged behind regions in touch with a wider cultural universe. One among many signs of the isolation and cultural fragmentation of much of sub-Saharan Africa is that African languages are one third of all the languages in the world, even though African peoples are only about 10 percent of the world's population.

Small, tribal societies were another consequence of geographic isolation -- and the vulnerability of such societies to conquest by outsiders was another.

If cultural diversity was all that the multiculturalists claim, Africa would be a heaven on earth. Too often and in too many places it has been a hell on earth."
4/?
>>
>>26205
>another sand caste built at the same time Europeans were making works of art, Asians were making beautiful temples and the surrounding area has no new buildings built

Wow impressive! Black pride!
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>>26099
Nice photographic evidence
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>>26214
Im north african and Im not the same guy
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>>24977
>>24947
>Credo Mutwa, the 94-year-old Zulu shaman or "sanusi" in South Africa, claims that this picture he had painted of tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed beings had been seen by black African tribes people throughout that continent long before the white Europeans arrived.

He was not kidding OR wrong.
>>
>>26258
"Many people expected great things from Africa when new independent African nations began to emerge from colonial rule in the 1960s, often headed by leaders who had been educated in Europe and America.

Unfortunately, what these new leaders brought back to Africa from the West were not the things that had made the West prosperous and powerful but the untested theories of Western intellectuals and ideologues who had taught them. Such African leaders by and large lacked both the common sense of the African masses and the technological and economic experience of the West.

The net result was that African leaders, full of confidence because of their Western education and the adulation of the Western intelligentsia, made their people guinea pigs for half-baked theories that had contributed nothing to the rise of the West and had contributed much to its social degeneration.

Poverty-stricken Africa could afford these economic and social disasters far less than the affluent West could. However, African leaders were not judged in the West by their results but by their rhetoric and their visions that resonated with the rhetoric and the visions of the Western intelligentsia.

Thus Julius Nyerere became virtually a secular saint in the Western media while he was driving the people of Tanzania deeper into poverty and tyranny. Nor was he alone.

Conversely, when Felix Houphouet-Boigny made the Ivory Coast an oasis of economic advancement and civil peace, he was either ignored or disdained. He was one of the few new African leaders with any previous experience in business or any understanding of economics. His successors have ruined the country."
5/?
>>
>>26118
How many castles can you point in this picture?
>>
>>26216
Since we know more about Europe than we do about Africa, and since /pol/ will probably try and derail every thread about anything other than Europe, yes.

I can only hope for actual historians and people alike to take over this board.
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>>26234
>asking for proofs for something thats being teached in fucking primary school
/pol/, everyone
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>>26260
>sand castle
lol at /pol/ tards its a city wall here and a huge fish market here are the inside of houses
Im not black Im berber/arab
>>
>>26280
"Whatever damage European colonialism did to Africa during its relatively brief reign, that was probably less than the damage done later by well-meaning Western would-be saviors of Africa. Africans do not need to be treated as mascots but as people whose own efforts, skills, and initiatives need to be freed from the tyranny of their leaders and the paternalism of Western busybodies."
5/?
>>
>>26266
Better then the rest of Africa but still not anywhere near euro standard. White cultures are just better, face it.
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>>26294
>Using primary school education as evidence
tumblr everyone! nice myths mate.
>>
>>26291
why cant /pol/tards read WE are talking about africa and im posting stuff from my afircan country the word africa itself comes from north africa
>>
>>26286
>If I don't like it, it's /pol/
Stop, retard. We're presenting facts. You just can't accept it
>>
>>26308
>better call everyone a poltard

Those castles aren't impressive but then again you are Arab, if you didn't have Africans you would be at the bottom
>>
>People unironically saying medieval peasants were rich and happy people
This board is doomed. Fuck this.
>>
>>26346
But now they're all Durka Durka jihad like the rest of Arabs.
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>>26322
i didnt even compare to europe just posting african stuff to prove some people wrong also calling i things built near the sahara sand castles as an insult is retarded ofc they will look like that our nature isnt like europe
>>
>>26337
>Using primary school education as evidence
So far there are two posts in this thread that actually use sources

>>26125
>>26022

What are yours?
>>
>>26346
This. If you think we're talking about anything but Sub-Saharan Africa, you have shit for brains.
>>
>>25835
THIS
>>
>>24690
>rich in natural resources
That is not what facilitates the birth of a civilization, mong.

Just because those resources are valuable in a very technologically advanced society such as ours doesn't mean they were so for tribal societies.

Africa was largely isolated from the rest of the world due to deserts. It has a smaller percentage of arable land.

What fucked modern Africa over and created most of its problems wasn't colonization. It was its abrupt ending. Taking a tribal society, giving them tech, roads, hospitals, schools, laws, then saying "alright time for me to fuck off, I'll just take all the people in power with me and leave you with all this progress and ideals we brought, I'm sure you can handle it and establish a functioning democratic government on your own :^)" is pretty detrimental to a society. Obviously it created a huge power vacuum in which, since all of the governing powers were absent, those with military power took over. Hence the endless civil wars, coos, lawlessness and corruption.

Sub-Saharan Africa wasn't much for most of the history, indeed. But neither was Europe less than 3000 years ago, which isn't much at all in the grand scope of things. In adopting agriculture, the lag between America and the Middle East was 6000 years, for comparison.
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>>26375
Nobody is saying that but your hollywood myths are no better.
>>
>>26393
Ok but no one cares about your country, we were discussion black culture and accomplishments. North Africa would still be decent if radical Islam didn't grow.
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>>26403
>>26403
>>26346
the thread is about africa deal with it
>>26371
funny coming from a /pol/ idiot who cant identify pictures i posted a city wall 2 mosques a house and souk and avenue in some town no castles also your opinion is subjective
>>
>>26426
>Just because those resources are valuable in a very technologically advanced society such as ours doesn't mean they were so for tribal societies.
Are you dumb? Holy shit. This is too much.
>>
>>26430
>Has Africa always struggled with poverty, throughout history? If yes, why? It's the opposite of what I would expect from a continent that is so rich in natural resources.
>Africa
>Africa
>Africa
>>
>>26479
Why are you so stupid?
>>
>>26479
Not even him but you are clearly missing the point and arguing against no one. If you want self-fellatio go to /int/.
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>>26487
>sub saharan africa has been literally shit since the birth of man.
Ethiopia had merchants agriculture houses ..... and managed to even conquer the arabs for some time
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>>26394
>What are yours?
I was the guy with the longish extended quote. See here for a book by the same author>>25701
>>
>>26234
>Nobles did not live in those houses m8,they lived in castles.
kek, are you serious anon? Townhouses were housing for the nobles and wealthy in the city
Most peasants lived in the countryside anyways
>>
>>26494
>>26515
>>26500
>op implied nigger africa
he didnt say that ill stop shitposting tho
>>
>>26510
Wow. They had houses while Europe had castles?
gg
>>
>>26460
>Are you dumb? Holy shit. This is too much.

Reddit please?
Congo is rich in tantalum, but Tantalum's only use to my knowledge is in electronics and alloys for nuclear power plants and jet engine components.

Tantalum is worth alot to modern people becuase we have a use for tantalum, but for pre-colonialism Congolese what value/usefulness did tantalum have? They weren't creating electronics or nuclar power plants or jet engine components in congo prior to the invention of all those things my man.
>>
>>26487
>europeans have had advanced culture dating back to 5000BC
Yeah no... Most of Europe was shit for large part of the history, by almost any standard.
>>
>>25962
That's why Buganda stood out as so remarkable. The delicate balancing of ecological factors, combined with new crops from the Columbian exchange, created a year round farming ecology that was incredibly productive.
>>
>>26487
>>26510

see >>25835
>>
>>26543
So wrong.
>>
>>26543
It has always been hundreds or even thousands of years ahead of sub-saharan Africa
>>
>>26454
>calls him pol fag
>guy says he's not polfag
>better call him polfag again

Dude seriously just leave 4chan, this isn't gonna be a fun place for you. This is a place where people blurt out the unpopular truth. Black cultures suck and Arabs are right below them, you can cry about it or accept the truth.
>>
>>26561
Yes given their situation, they probably were pretty well-off.

But still centuries behind anywhere else in the world I'm afraid.
>>
>>26532
europeans still didnt have castles when Ethiopia was powerful and i dont wanna compare to europe you /pol/tard just proved :" sub saharan africa has been literally shit since the birth of man." you wrong
>>
>>26543
Arguably worse than anywhere else due to taxation beyond any reasonable amount, religious intolerance and the royalty constantly pulling every able man into war.
>>
>>26579
Im not arabian or black also back to /pol/ you go :D
>>
>>26394
The burden of proof is on you,oh my god humanities students,nigger you were the one who made claims about the lifestyle of medieval peasants.
You watched too much monthy phyton,english people seem to believe everyone was as miserable as their lower class during the industrial revolutions.
>>
I wonder if the trans atlantic slave trade(which predominantly took away able bodied males) caused stagnation and demographic problems(more women than men) in the african kingdoms and the slave raids/ wars caused instability, could this have been a major reason for the underdevelopment of africa?
>>
>>26611
>better tell him to go to pol one more time that'll really show him

Yeah still don't go to pol, still think black and Arab cultures are shit and still think you're a retarded under aged fag that should go back to tumblr
>>
>>26585
What's your source?
>>
>>26632
It probably hindered development in west africa to quite a large degree.

However I don't really buy it, all these sorts of things are recent.
>>
>>26624
So, in other words, you have LESS than Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
>>
>>26660
>10000 years ago
>European

Ignoring you now.
>>
>>26593
Considering most European nations didn't spawn until after fall of Rome, there was only European tribes which mostly kept to themselves. Even after that it took hundreds of years of civil wars and inter-european wars before Europe could challenge anyone globally in any arena. With some exceptions, like Venice as trade power.

>>26571
>Hundreds of even thousands of years ahead
That doesn't even make any sense. In 5000BC, your 100 years didn't mean jack shit when it comes to technological advancement. European superiority is in the past 500 years, not 5000.
>>
>>26632
Or maybe because evolution is real and we all came out of Africa right? So wouldn't that make them least evolved?
>>
>>26588
>europeans still didnt have castles when Ethiopia was powerful
Wrong.
>>
>>26588
You do know that Europe has had castle for tens of thousands of years, right?
>>
>>26660
>europeans from 10000 years ago achieved a higher standrrd living and culture than sub saharan africa has even today.

See, this would be okay on /pol/ where no one gives a shit. But if you want a history board to be accurate and free of bias you have to purge it of crap like this
>>
>>26675
Found the guy who failed history
>>
>>26694
Hundreds of thousands of years anon
>>
>>26694
>You do know that Europe has had castle for tens of thousands of years, right?

No. No they have not.
>>
>>26731
You fucking retard
>>
>>26731
Ummmm.... Yes. Yes they have.
>>
>>26660
>Mesopotamia
What the hell does this have to do with Europe?
>Ancient Greece
>Ancient Rome
And this leaves 80% of Europe out of the picture. Even Romans were more interested in Mediterranean and northern Africa than northern Europe.
>>
>>26731
Did you sleep through your history classes?
>>
>>26731
Wrong
>>
>>24690
White people destroyed and polluted africa, took half the population as slaves and put communists and dictators in power.
>>
Also btw when the transatlantic slave trade started to end the African kingdoms collapsed because they heavily relied on it economically, making them vulnerable for colonisation
>>26681
In what sense are africans unevolved? Never seen anyone make that argument
>>26706
Never to such a massive scale
>>
>>26731
Google the Greek labyrinth. This is a fact agreed with by all historians.
>>
>>26731
yes they have
>>
>>26742
>>26747
>>26760
Name me one fortification in Europe dating from 18000 B.C.

Go on. This will be hilarious. Show me these paleolithic castles.
>>
>>26742
>>26747
>>26760
>>26767
The year 40,000 BC.

32,000 years before the birth of civilization in the fertile crescent.

34,000 years before the invention of writing.

39,000 years before more than a few middle-eastern colonies on the outskirts could be referred to as anything but literal tribal warfare.

EUROPE had CASTLES.
>>
>>26782
>White people destroyed and polluted africa
But the majority blacks somehow didn't huh? Forgot how they're known for their cleanliness. Also whites built the best parts of Africa
>took half the population as slaves
Citation needed, not nearly that much and fellow blacks captured and sold them
>and put communists and dictators in power
They usually vote in commies and dictators themselves

Nice try Jamal
>>
>>24690
Because unlike the harsher climate/geography of Europe, there was no need to build massive buildings or even farm. Without any real development in those areas, you don't get much development in weapons either.

Adversity forces progress, there was far more adversity from nature in the north so it force progress. Add to that trade across the Mediterranean compared to far less across Africa and there's your answer. Plus this >>24930
>>
>>26809
the labyrinth
>>
>>26809
>>26814
Don't bother arguing with /pol/, remember that they think germanics created the roman empire.
>>
>>26681
>In what sense are africans unevolved? Never seen anyone make that argument

Every sense.

No but really if the out of Africa theory is true that means blacks are the unevolved versions of humans, while the ones that left evolved to be the rest of the world.
>>
>>24690
>It's the opposite of what I would expect from a continent that is so rich in natural resources.


>no need to work your ass off to survive
>natural selection obsolete
>>
>>26821
This, humans need to be pushed by nature to start developping themselves, we would never have gone to agriculture if it wasn't for nature pushing us f.e. since hunting and foraging was 'easier'
>>
>>26852
Bullshit! This is "the earth is sixty thousand years old" levels of ignorance. I know /his/ is new but how can so many not have any grasp of human history whatsoever?
>>
>>25540
Oh, have they done so since the beginning of human history?
I also didn't know Africa is all out of resources now. Oh wait, it's still the richest continent on Earth, but those resources are unfortunately in the hands of idiots.
>>
>>26792
1) No it is not.
2) Even if the Greeks had constructed such a thing, the Greeks antedate the time period in discussion by quite a bit. In fact, the entire Indo-Iranian Migration is many thousands of years too late to be relevant.
>>
>>26852

Roman Empire was clearly British.

Why would Hollywood lie to me?
>>
>>26673
Now this is shitposting
>>26731
I think they are reffering to this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuraghe
BTFO
>>
>>26836
18000BC anon
>>
>>26928
>1900 - 730BCE
>10,000s of thousands of years old
BTFO indeed
>>
>>26905
Wrong
>>
I once saw an argument(by some professor)made that a reason why Africa is so unstable is not necessarily the forced adoption of institutions of the colonizers but the fact that the colonizers failed to completely eliminate native and tribal institutions
>>
>>26980
there's certainly something to that. Also when the colonial powers left, they left behind bad borders in place.
>>
>>26928
Wow really? That's what you're going with. That's not even the oldest set of castles I can think of in Europe off the top of my head.

It's also, even using the most generous estimates and some friendly rounding is 16,000 years too late for the time period we're discussing.

Try again.
>>
>>26928
A glorified wall is not a castle. All fortifications are not castles, because in that case even Africa had castles.

What's next? A pointy fort is suddenly a Star Fort, invented 20000 years before cannons existed?
>>
>>25687
That's like telling a Brit he doesn't know more about his countries origins than the average foreigner.

I'm from NZ I can guarantee I know a fuck load more about my countries history than most foreigners, because I had to learn it all in school. And you probably do know more than others about abos because we were never taugh it (unless we went out of our way to find out about them).

No need to be pissy to tunisians because you lost the final, mate.
>>
File: True history.jpg (1MB, 1106x2521px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
True history.jpg
1MB, 1106x2521px
>>24899
>pretty much everything on the Nile
>Carthage
I get that he said the African continent, but we all know we are speaking of the negro and that pretty much excludes North Africa.

I can mention some others for you though
>Timbuktu
>Kush (culturally more Sub-Saharan African than Mediterranean)

I would still argue that European culture, Mediterranean, and Arabic cultures is superior to the Sub-Saharan African cultures.
>>
>>26905
This is a cool place, but no way near old enough
>>
>>27036
>I'm from NZ I can guarantee I know a fuck load more about my countries history than most foreigners
Your country has no history you stupid shit. This isn't nearly the same level. Stop trying to be relevant.
>>
>>26856
They actually taught us that in school but I never thought of it that way. Doesn't that kind of explain everything? Africans who stayed never evolved past the first step.
>>
>>26975
>the labyrinth
It says 10 thousand years old,maybe he fucked up in plurals,he is still right that Europeans had castles at extremely early periods of history.
>>27006
>Africa and the middle east are shit because Europeans made no divissions between ethnic groups
>Diversity is our strenght
Chose one tumblr
>>27021
>Glorified wall
Are you blind and running some bootleg reading software? look at the reconstructions.
>>
>>24930
>desert
Didn't stop the Arabs.

C'mon m8, Northern Europe has had to struggle with seasons unfit for growing pretty much 7 months of the year.
>>
>>27049
meant to be for>>26928
>>
>>26654
My source is that buganda had developed no writing system, my source is that whilst they were being introduced to asian and american crops, asia and america were already in contact with industrialised goods.
>>
>>27021
That's not even the issue here. The issue here is it is 16,000 years too late.

To give you an idea of the period we're talking about here:

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEUROPE.html
>Last Glacial Maximum/Full Glacial (22,000 14C years ago) to 14,000 14C years ago. The last late Glacial from 22,000 up until just before 13,000 14C years ago was very cold and dry throughout Europe. Large ice sheets were present over much of northern Europe, and ice caps covered the Alps and the Pyrennes. Forest and woodland were almost non-existent, except for isolated pockets of woody vegetation in and close to the mountain ranges of southern Europe. Instead, a sparse grassland or semi-desert covered most of southern Europe, whilst a mixture of the dry, open 'steppe tundra' and polar desert covered the parts of northern Europe not occupied by ice sheets. Ice-wedge features suggest that permafrost extended across most of Europe, down to about the latitude of central France. Drifting sand and wind erosion were common in north and central Europe, and desert animals such as Saiga antelope were present as far west as France.
>>
>>27079
What part of agreed upon history do you not understand?
>>
>>24690
ethiopian and mali empires did some shit. East Africa has some cool city-states which I consider equivalent to any other ones of Greece and Italy, Zulus had a centralized state in the 19th century which collapsed for lack of technology not skilled leadership
>>
>>25021
That's true, but the majority has also managed to progress although they've been facing this challenge among many others. Africa has not.
>>
>>25401

>everyone tries their absolute best to not actually address any of his arguments (especially after the OP clearly proved them wrong) but instead attack/strawman/circumvent everything

>that one guy claiming that malaria was a huge problem globally (including the Americas) for ever and ever

Holy fucking shit reddit is retarded
>>
>>27064
He wasn't talking about the labyrinth. And neither are 10,000 years olds
>>
>>27077
So for the purposes of this discussion, we're defining access to goods at the Continental level?
>>
>>27064
I never claimed diversity is a strength. It's usually a weakness of societies that needs to be taken into account when drawing borders. Tumblr and /pol/ are not the only ideological options in the world.
>>
Wtf are you argueing about castles, this is a thread about why africans were so underdevelopped, it's ironic really, because castles are a sign of repression not a strong centralized society(here we go)
Honestly let's not derail the thread any further and continue
>>
>>25101
>Rbh Africa is really is the bad spot it is because they didn't know how too work together as all natives when being invaded..
That's the thing. Europe created vast empires with one dominant culture replacing the inferior.
This never happened in Africa it seems although they were constantly fighting each other. Well, except when the Romans and the Arabs conquered them.
>>
I don't understand the question.

What nation wasn't poor until like last century?

Do you think 90% of the population in any nation wasn't living in squalor?
>>
>>27064
It doesn't matter if he meant only 10,000 years ago, and it doesn't matter if the labyrinth actually existed, that's STILL not nearly old enough.
>>
>>27117
Ok unremote/well populated areas of asia and the americas were trading industrially produced goods.

Whilst unremote/well populated areas of africa were only just coming into contact with crops from other parts of the world.
>>
>>27062
>>26856
Evolution has no goal you idiots, natural selection adapts to your environment. Nothing is more or less "evolved" as there is no goal of evolution.
>>
>>27167
No anon, Europeans lived in beautiful houses like pic related in 30,000BC
>>
Another reason for africa's underdevelopment is africa's north south orientation unlike eurasia's east west orientation because of which the same crops couldn't be cultivated everywhere because of the difference in climate
>>
>>27167
this a really interesting question because compared to the average welfare recipient in the west today Louis XIV was living in squalor in many ways. But I still have a sense that there was fairly substantial and important variations in standard of living in pre-industrial societies. The Romans had running water and indoor plumbing but their descendants in 1000 AD didn't.
>>
>>27233
Complexity is the goal. Evolution never produces something simpler. This is due to genes compounding.
>>
>>27274
>Complexity is the goal. Evolution never produces something simpler
Not true at all, fish in caves lose their eyes over time for example.
>>
>>26049
medieval towns had notoriously high deathrates compared to the countrysides...not a good example there m8. They didn't have any sanitation, the only reason it looks nice today is cause the government cleans it to promote tourism
>>
>>27274
>Evolution never produces something simpler.
This is completely, 100% wrong.
>This is due to genes compounding.
Please stop. You're just making shit up.
>>
>>27198
That's untrue. Bananas and rice had entered into the Great Lakes agriculture hundreds of years before European contact, and that's by far the most remote region.
>>
>>27274
?? No just no... Evolution actively removes unnecessary stuff. Complexity is the result of evolution adapting to surroundings, because the planet varies so vastly.
>>
>>26152
> Blacks are better at sports
Just thought I'd point out it depends greatly on the sport, notice how there's fuck all great black swimmers or weightlifters?
Also there should be more black people in sports globally, there's more of them to sample from.
It also depends on a races cultural attitude towards a sport, ie basketball is extremely popular with blacks, but fencing isn't for example.

A lot of people parrot this "blacks are better at sport" with zero thought behind whether this is true. It almost seems like people want it to be true to give blacks something, tossing them a bone out of pity.

Lets stay factual please.
>>
Europe had 10x larger building 10,000 years ago than Africa does today.
>>
>>26284
A tiny fraction of people lived in the cities
>>
>>27310
Losing traits is not simplification. I guess it was wrong of me to assume you have any manner of intricate knowledge in biology.
>>
>>26318
>>26280
>>26258
>>26125
>>26101
>>26042

That made a for a nice read. Thanks, senpai.
>>
>>27345
via arab traders via swahili traders

however the buganda still had no written language?
>>
>>27375
Holy shit you are dumb
>>
>>27379
Don't thank me, thank Thomas Sowell
>>
>>25770
You can't eat gold.

Africa is naturally hugely deficient in what it takes to build strong innovative states, which is productive agriculture.
>>
>>27375
>Losing traits is not simplification.
It can be. In this case, it is. Please stop pretending to know what you're talking about.
- an actual biologist
>>
>>27375
I have a PhD in biology and you're wrong.
>>
>>27413
I have a PhD in 4chan shitposting and you're wrong
>>
>>27406
>>27413
Then why has both fauna and flora naturally developed into more complex creatures since the precambrian era? How come the heart, bones and all those other non-ordovician traits make up so many creatures today? In fact, why did cells even lump together in the first place if remaining simple was natural for evolution?

Either it's all a very unlikely coincidence, or nature favors complexity.
>>
>>27492
because you touch yourself at night
>>
>>26815
It was bait you fucking tard, I didn't even make that post and I can see that.

Fuck this board is doomed to be about as prosperous as sub Sahara Africa considering how many retards have inhabited this board
>>
>>27546
Much like africa it's a transitional period, people are so used to shitposting it's a habit that's hard to get rid of. Give it a week or two.
>>
>>27055
Your mad as fuck cunt, chill out.
>>
>>27592
Honestly. I'm just here so fresh new dank memes
>>
This board is already cancer

>blacks are underdeveloped because we evolved from them

Best shit I've read in years
>>
>>27492
At the bottom of the ocean can still be found some of the most primitive beings, which are millions of years of olds. they haven't evolved because they haven't had the need to do so.

Traits are either kept or forgotten depending how they are used and how well individuals with those genes reproduce. Because Trait A might work in place X, it doesn't mean it gives edge at place Y where trait B might dominate. Like it was said, evolution has no plan, it just works, like apple phones.
>>
>>27905
If all you consider are the exceptions. We don't consider the Platypus to be the rule for mammals, and neither should we consider isolated underwater monsters to tell us anything about our evolution.

Needless to say, if our situation was even remotely similar to theirs, humans would not exist.
>>
>>24690
jared diamond has an interesting book/documentary on the subject
>>
>All I see when I read this thread
>>
>>28099
>>
>>24690
>resources
Meh, there are resource bright spots but huge chunks are just desert, which has steadily expanded over time.

Consider that Europe went right in and annexed the Americas outright, pushing out the indigenous populations, but put relatively half-hearted attempts into conquering the much more easily reached African lands. Mostly they were satisfied with installing their own governments. The actions would have been much more aggressive if more of the lands were all that valuable.
>>
>>27388
Yes. Which really, really, is not as much of an impediment to a functioning society as people think. Non-literate societies can manage complex legal codes, abstract philosophy, literary traditions, etc. Just fine.

The problem is these don't tend to leave a record that survives societal disruptions. (Ironically, this is one area that the Stormfags COULD theoretically bitch about. There's long been an assumption that Northern Europe = Nothing going on because a bunch of people in the Middle East started writing shit down, and they didn't. Not the case).

So it basically comes down to what do we mean by progress. Because obviously some linear, whiggish conception of history where we're moving through the same stages towards the same goal is completely insane.

So, based on the outline of this thread, I decided to talk about this in terms of poverty. And yes, in the late 19th century, Buganda was a kingdom with remarkably little poverty. On a tiny bit of land, a man could provide for himself and his family, to such an extent that it impressed European explorers, and lead to wild speculation about the causes of such wealth.

If you had to drop me down as a petty laborer in the 1880s and I had the choice of say, Buganda, Sicily, China, and Brazil, there's no doubt in my mind which one I'd pick.
>>
>>28493
Enjoy dying of sleeping disease my man.

But i agree with your sentiment, I was merely trying to give explanations as to why African societies were in absolute material terms generally worse off than people in other continents.

Because Africa, can be quite an unforgiving place.
>>
There are many reasons.
I'm only going to talk about sub-saharan Africa here, because north Africa has had some success during it's history (egyptians, carthage, greek occupation, roman occupation, arab occupation, and so on). None of these civilizations were purely African however, most of them were settlers from other civilizations and egyptians were mostly semitic-middle eastern (from that area generally) and sub-saharan african / nubian only to an extent.

First of all, sub-saharan africa is relatively cut off from the outside world, and it's enormous. This meant that there wasn't enough trade and interaction between civilizations, and trade is very important for the growth of civilizations. It doesn't come as a surprise that the only relatively advanced sub-saharan civilizations were Mali and Ethiopia, both of which were based on trade. Ethiopia was very close to Arabia, in particular.

Another reason is the climate. African climate is very warm and humid and winters aren't very dangerous. This meant that Africans didn't have to take many measures against winter like the europeans did, like storing food, and because of that, Africans weren't really looking to improve themselves. They didn't look to the future, they were just living the moment I guess, which is a big part of african culture.

I suspect that the big jungles and the dangerous wildlife also played a role.
Tribalism was also a huge problem.

"Genetics" is something that could have played a role. Africans may have inferior genetics now because they didn't create powerful civilizations (on par with europe, asia, etc).
>>
>>27274
Parasites. Look at rhomboids or tapeworms, they evolved from more complex forms.

The increase in complexity is observed due to competition (and therefore the need for being more adapted) but it's not necessary. Learn some modern palaeontology/evolutionary biology please.
>>
>>25607
>Post actual evidence of successful African Civilization
>I...it doesn't count
>M...muh Niggers
>>
>>26019
It literally was completed in the 20th century, but as reconstruction of a war-wrecked structure from ~800 years prior.
>>
>>25649
Why was thew end of Southern Iberia richer than the other parts?
>>
>>25129
There were actually a great number of prosperous states in Sub-Saharan Africa, such as Mali, Songhai, Benin, Kongo, Karnem Bornu, Ethiopia, etc.
That being said most of Africa land-wise was separated into small tribes
>>
>>26821
This definitely
In a lot of Africa, it's easier to hunt things because the climate is so shit for agriculture, and there's a ton of shit to kill any draft animals you try and domesticate
>>
>>29010
Just say Malaria. It's Malaria. Malaria killed half of every human who ever lived.
>>
>>24690
Most of those resources are in the hands of either a nation's elite like in Nigeria, or in the hands of some foreign power, like the Congo, so the natural resources really don't end up benefiting the average citizen sadly
>>
>>25125
Underrated post
>>
In terms of why in the broad sweep of history, Africa lagged behind, just read Guns Germs and Steel.

As for recent history, I'd say it's an issue of pastoral iron age tribal cultures being thrust into the modern world. Populations predictably exploded (effects of modern medicine and cultures that emphasized having lots of children), while they were unable to compete in the modern global economy except in selling off resources. Having so many un- and under-employed working age people probably means even more instability going forward for many countries, although those which have gotten their grown rates under control (basically just South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, and to a lesser degree Zimbabwe) might actually be able to start raising living standards notably.
>>
>>25125
>go back 1000 years and your average european fellow didn't live in any luxury.

In England in the late 14th century people people had a higher life expectancy than most African nations, fewer homicides than Detroit (per person) and more leisure time than at any point until the 1960s.
>>
>>29200
...I'm talking about just Sub-Saharan Africa of course.

North Africa is basically an extension of the Middle East.
>>
>>26731
baka desu senpai
>>
>>26222
>the eventual European colonization drained them of all their wealth and left them in a poor state to utilize what they have

Did they though?
>>
>>26426
>coos
it's coup
>>
>>24690
>Has Africa always struggled with poverty, throughout history?
Africa was a creation of 19th century narratives about racial justifications for colonisation. In this sense "Africa" has always been poor, as it has been produced as the subalternarity of the Western dominated world-system, a necessary periphery where the imagination runs wild.
>>
>>28538
Oh I totally agree. Africa is a phenomenally shitty place, and even today the amount of human potential lost to Malaria is astounding.

But the societies that developed there were still remarkable and it's not a monolithic image of constant poverty and barkwardness.

I still standby my choice. Because there's a good chance I'll shit myself to death of dysentary in India. And the health issues I face mean that the nondiversified diet of an Indian laborer would probably kill me. And because there's a good chance there just won't be any food.

Africans have been stymied in some directions, and surged ahead in others. They independently developed Iron Working so clearly Africa is capable of growing and developing on it's own.
>>
>>24930
Is this bait? Not even the most retarded nineteenth century writer would say this.

To contribute to the thread, look up the works by Samir Amin and Walter Rodney, both of them great africanists. Africa's wealth was comparable to Europe's up until the 1400's.
>>
>>25602
>>25464

He still sort of gets BTFO though.
My own biases make me keen to see humanities majors get a butt full of hard facts in the face of whichever form of "we're all exactly the same" they're pushing, but this guy was not the one to do it.
The deconstruction of his argument is much more convincing than his argument was to begin with.
>>
>>25125
>but more of the fucked up borders Europeans which didn't respect African cultural borders at all. That's why you have African states in civil war and breaking in half now (Congo, Sudan)
This desu, but go try and tell the public/academia/powers-that-be in the liberal West about the importance of nation states and you'll be laughed to your suicide.
>>
>>26284
I don't think a single building there is more than 2 centuries old, unless it was entirely renovated.
>>
>reddit
>reddit
>/pol/
>reddit
>/pol/
>reddit
>reddit
>/pol/
>reddit
What a great thread.
>>
>>27492
Life's complex because it had time on its side, yo. As long as your random mutation doesn't impede with your daily survival and/or passing down genes, it'll get passed on to the next generation and so on. Organisms get more complex this way because we can't just delete the junk genes, we work around them.
Like the first fishes to stumble upon land. Some of them mutated to breathe oxygen from air instead of water, and survived, and it lead to the first lungs being made. Life went from gills to lungs. Yet when the first ancestors of the whale started trying to swim, they already had lungs, so they work around that and got high-capacity lungs instead of growing gills.
>>
Even IF Africans have a low IQ, I doubt that's what caused the problem, since there are other countries with supposedly low IQs that do just fine. It's most likely the poor conditions there.
>>
>>32917
>since there are other countries with supposedly low IQs that do just fine. I
Such as?
>>
>>33210
the us
>>
>>33210
The Caribbean.
>>
>>33234
The average US IQ isn't low.

>>33286
Haiti is "doing just fine"?
>>
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Genetic determinism BTFO
>>
>>33687
How can you look at Haiti only and ignore all the other countries?
>>
>>25125
>but more of the fucked up borders Europeans which didn't respect African cultural borders at all. That's why you have African states in civil war and breaking in half now (Congo, Sudan)


That's a good point and there's definitely truth in that but would be todays situation any better if every clan/tribe/whatever (I'm not familiar with African demographics) would have it's own country?
I mean the ethnic/linguistical maps of Africa are a giant and confusing clusterfuck and every group having a country would lead to a gazillion tiny states with even more exclaves/enclaves and other potential casus belli.
>>
>>34264
What good countries are there in the carribean?
>>
>>34719
Almost all of them. Why do you think so many Americans and Europeans visit there?

>Barbados
>Trinidad and Tobago
>St Lucia
>St Vincent
>Martinique
>Guadeloupe
>Antigua
>St Kitts
>Saint Martin
>Everything else except Haiti and parts of Jamaica
>>
Black university students in South Africa also show relatively low mean test scores. Sixty-three undergraduates at the all-Black universities of Fort Hare, Zululand, the North, and the Medical University of South Africa had a full-scale IQ of 77 on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale—Revised (Avenant, 1988, cited in Nell, 2000, pp. 26 –28). In a study at the University of Venda in South Africa’s Northern Province by Grieve and Viljoen (2000), 30 students in 4th-year law and commerce averaged a score of 37 out of 60 on the Standard Progressive Matrices, equivalent to an IQ of 78 on U.S. norms
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/pppl1.pdf

Just think about it university students with sub 80 IQ
>>
>>34867
Half of those are still colonies, the other half are sparsely populated touristic islands.
>>
>>35203
Your point?
>>
>>28927
The overland trade route to the African provinces in the west crossed the Gibraltar straits
>>
>>25592
Have you ever looked at it on google earth? Do you understand how much of Sub-Saharan Africa is jungle or rain forest?
>>
>>35343
There are no examples of successful african societies.
>>
>>36013
I've been all over Africa in person. Tropical jungle is good for nothing once you cut it down: what little soil there is will wash away pretty much immediately.

Most of SS Africa is scrubland/savannah, which isn't good for much else besides pasture unless it's heavily irrigated and fertilized. The tropics generally are shitty for agriculture since the soils are so leached of any nutrients; you can far them for a while, but nothing long-term with putting nutrients into them.
>>
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>>36054
Bullshit.

Trinidad and Tobago is a successful African country, and like I said, the many other Caribbean countries that aren't colonies. In Africa, Ethiopia is developing and Nigeria, Angola, and Namibia are all successful countries.
>>
>>36196
Oops, I meant it's a successful Caribbean country.
>>
>>24971
the only true answer
>>
>>36196
Trinidad and tobago has no economy except for tourism and a tiny population.

Show me a successful black country with a population greater than 10 million people.

Nigeria is an abject shithole btw
>>
>>36586
And in contrast whites starting off in Africa would have made of the most of their resources and built functional civilizations.
>>
>>36447
Seems like every time I give you a country, you make an excuse so that it doesn't count.

>Trinidad and tobago has no economy except for tourism and a tiny population.
Oil and gas is a huge economy there.

>Nigeria is an abject shithole btw
How?
>>
>>36586
Too lazy to do research, so instead, blame it on the people without anything to back up your argument. /pol/ style.
>>
>>27071
The Arabs DID have wheat though
>>
>>36653
I don't make up an excuse, I'm just stating the obvious. Trinidad and Tobago is a bunch of hotels owned by whites staffed by the local blacks. Were it not for tourism it woild be Haiti tier.

As for Nigeria, are you being serious? Lagos is a huge slum, most of the population lives in poverty, their only lifeline is their oil money but the authorities are so corrupt that none of it gets invested in infrastructure, and large parts of the north of the country is controlled by jihadists.
>>
>>36704
>continue to blindly deny that there no iq differences between races
>>
>>36808
>Were it not for tourism it woild be Haiti tier.
No it wouldn't. Like I just said, oil and gas is a huge part of the economy there.

>>36808
>As for Nigeria, are you being serious?
Nigeria is developing, and there are definitely many parts of it that are acceptable.
>>
The best way to think about it is this. Africa was comparable to Europe until around the 1500's when a lot of the major states in the area collapsed for the same reasons every state collapses. So take 600 AD Europe and have it be invaded by waves of traders and colonizers with awesome weapons, untouchable ships, and much more money and manpower than your feeble broken up tribes of franks or whatever the fuck have. Now you have Africa's situation. Europe got lucky and "discovered" subsaharan Africa right as the regions were going through a major downturn period and they exploited it and prevented it from getting out of the rut. Now they still can't because those some destabilizing forces won't fuck off and leave them alone. Not that it would matter much at this point.
>>
>>36889
What are you going off about now?
>>
>>36704
fuck off SJW
>>
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>>37038
Is SJW all you can say when you don't have an argument?
>>
>>36954
If niggers started off in Europe which all ots geographical benefits, the civilizations and empires they would have built would still be far less technologically advanced than White ones.
>>
>>34873
I love how all the sjws ITT are ignoring this
>>37094
all your SJW arguments are "muh blacks are perfect in every way, your not allowed to criticize them at all"
>>
>>36196
>>36054
Gabon, Namibia and Botswana all seem like pretty decent countries.
>>
>>37097
How do you know this?
>>
>>30510
He didnt get BTFO though, He took every response and inkind explained why they were absurd.
>>
>>37165
Simple. Because even with all the technological advancements and resources Africa has now thanks to the western world, it's still complete dogshit and backwards.

Same thing with caribbean countries.
>>
>>37218
>Same thing with caribbean countries
That is complete bullshit.

Also see >>36196
>>
>>24690
Africa is rather poor in resources that were relevant in pre-20th century societies or exploitable by pre-20th century tech. It's shit for agriculture, shit for iron or copper, place is full of malaria and other diseases, and shit for safe and navigable water or land ways.
>>
>>37243
>trinidad and tobago

Impoverished crime ridden shithole. Technology and infastructure is far below any white or even latin american country.

>nigeria

Fucking seriously?
>>
>>37408
>Impoverished crime ridden shithole. Technology and infastructure is far below any white or even latin american country.
Have you ever been there? Or better yet, have you even done a simple Google search?
>>
>>37483
Trinidad and Tobagos murder rate is 31 per 100,000 while the US is 6.2 per 100,000

It's pretty terrible.

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=16263
>>
>>37243
>office blocks are an African invention
>>
>>37483
35% of the population is east Indian. It's mixed at best. Not just black.

20% of the population is in poverty.
>>
>>37564
Fuck off stormfag. You just don't understand the culture
>>
>>25835
This. Civilization causes selective pressures for traits like intelligence and cooperation.

Look at Ashkenazi Jews. That's what multiple centuries of only marrying scholars and scholars daughter's does.


The rest of the world was selected for who can thrive the most in civilization, whereas Africa still selected for being a good hunter
>>
>>24690
Infertile land, resources aren't usually accessible. Eastern Africans developed some weird sort of defeatist culture that made it so they would estrange people who tried to develop land instead of migrating to another river.
It's just a huge mess.
>>
>>25835
This. The abundance of seriously deadly parasites (to people and crops/livestock) in Africa are a major reason as to why it's so undeveloped that is often ignored.
>>
>>37651
When did I say that?

>>37665
It's 40% black.

>>37564
That is true but the other stuff about infrastructure isn't.

>>37679
This is obviously bait.
>>
>>34867
Martinique & Guadeloupe are just France, though.
>>
>>37679
You have less of an understanding than he does.

>>37754
Very much this.
>>
>>37771
You said high rise towers were an African invention
>>
>>25835
This is a good explanation.
>>
>>37771
>40% black

Wrong.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago

The majority of people are Indian.

It's infastructure is good for nigger/indian countries, but shit compared to white ones.
>>
>>37849
When?
>>
>>37877
Oh I'm sorry for being 4% off.
>>
>>25835
On top of that, hasn't Africa had a rather tiny population for most of human history?
>>
>>37965
So your best example is a country most of which is indian, richest people are indian, 20% poverty and try to claim it as a succesful black country?

>nigger apologists

not even once
>>
>>38053
See >>34867
>>
>>26681
There's no such thing as less evolved. All species evolve at all times. You could claim Africans are adapted to a non civilized environment. But not that they are "less evolved."
>>
>>26814
Do you think they're talking about the giant wood forts the Celtics used to make?

Because that was a thing and they were proto castles.
>>
>>30510
He deconstructed every deconstruction dude. Are you blind?
>>
>>38327
he's not wrong, your just a braindead leftist
>>
>>38453
Responding to the wrong guy. I support his thread.
>>
>>36653
>Seems like every time I give you a country, you make an excuse so that it doesn't count.
That's how a debate works anon. If there are reasons why your example is invalid, he would need to point it out
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