Who was in the right?

Poland would be greatest winner if did what French did (financing swedish rape of germany) instead of leading pro-habsurg politics and lending them cheap mercenaries. But they still did not bad considering that they realized that religious civil war is shit and extended religious freedoms

So overall the greater winners are: France, Sweden and to lesser extend Poland

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>>2465060
how did poland win? the swedish rape of germany financed the swedish rape of poland

>>2465038
>France Scotland and England all on the same side
Was this war a christmas miracle?

>>2465319
Spain too strong

>>2465038
All Frenchmen should off themselves solely for this war.

>>2465200
Poland (and pretty much every HRE neighbour) profited from weak and decentralized german states and deluge has nothing to do with 30 years war
besides, poles and swedes should have allied each other against russia desu

>>2465038
Bohemia

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>>2465437
>the rise of the Swedish empire had nothing to do with the deluge
hehe mm
>poles and swedes should have allied each other against russia desu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Swedish_union

>>2465038
Sbane

>>2465038
The Irish theater was pretty interesting. It was basically the last gasp of the gaelic aristocracy before they got smashed

>>2465411
t. hans

>>2465319
They were on the same side from 1560-1625 because of spanish dominance.
Then the english became butthurt about the whole La Rochelle shenanigans and declared war on France, but after being btfo hard, they returned to fight with their french bros against the Habsburg menance.

When Spain collapsed, they two even allied to partition the Dutch Republic, though that was more or less the last war being fought by both together for a long time.

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>How many stand around waiting to share thy garments? Are they not already promised to many, who await only the hour of thy destruction? How long dost thou think to continue in prosperity? Verily, for as long as Spinola wills it.

That image is retarded as the only major fighters in the during the rise of the swedish empire was Russia, Sweden, and the Von Habsburgs. The Von Habsburgs hate Germany north of Austria so they let it suffer. After the most evil people of all time got close to the Austrian border Von Habsburg blew the evil Swedes the fuck out, which lead to the extermination of the Swedish people. Anyone who says Sweden was in the right will be punished by Elohim

The war for the independence of NE was separate from that and occurred after the fall of the American Colonies, right before the Napoleonic wars.

>>2465038
I don't get the strenght of the catholic side

>>2465038
Protestants because Habsburgs were getting way too powerful. Although Portestantism is a made up religion, so I guess only Russia won and the Ottomans won.

>>2466131
all religions are made up dumbass

>>2466112
They had fucking Spain on their side.
In germany itself Bavaria was by far the most efficient and powerful nation during the war (besides austria of course). On paper Saxony should be stronger, but they were shit tier during the war (and after), and Brandenburg really only became after the 30YW relevant.

Lastly, english help was marginal, dutch even less, France was not involved during the first half of the war. Ironically, the strongest non-german state on the protestant side at the beginning was fucking Transsylvania, which even besieged Vienna for some time.

If at all, the catholic side was clearly superior up until Sweden revealerd themselfs to be actually pretty fucking powerful and later on France joined the fun.

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Was it rape?

Three WW2 threads on the frontpage and nothing else but Humanities shit, but a 30YW thread is dieing.

Come on /his/,. dont be like that

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Bump?

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b-b-bümp?

>>2465038
The Swiss.

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>>2466712
>Victory at Nördlingen
>The catholics swep the Swedes
>The catholic army invades the United provinces through the Palatinate
>Victory is assured.
>After that all the protestant armies would have been destroyed one by one until the heresy was erradicated.
>Without the assistance of the Dutch England gets invaded and a catholic king is placed there.
>Charlie inherits Spain
>As he has no heir the Archduke Charles inherits Spain
>Later on he inherits the centralized HRE
>Then form the Catholic empire and conquer the rest of the world
>All of this would have had happened if France didn't chimp out in the 30 years war
JUST

>>2465437
>>poles and swedes should have allied each other against russia desu
whenever that was attempted the poles went on a backstabbing spree

>>2466217
>until Sweden revealed themselves to be actually pretty fucking powerful

the greatest miracle in history, without the industry, money or population necessary to wage a war Gustavus Adolphus waged a successful war and created an empire

>>2466241

More like a triple murder suicide.

>>2466747
French money and troops actually only came into play in larger quantity some 4-5 years later. And at that point the Swedes had gotten their shit together again and stabilized the situation in germany.

Its more that Spain was just so fucked already, and all the other relevant nations were protestant or pro-protestant

>>2465038
Has Hungary literally ever been right about anything?

>>2466916
Stopping the ottoman onslaught for half a century.
Siding with their Habsburg overlords during the War of Austrian Succession.

But yes, thats it-

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Was there ever a better battle during the XVII century then Breitenfeld?

Largest battle of the war, two elite armies, both evenly matched, no natural advantage for any of the two, both fighting to decisively win the war

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>>2466951
>who cares if your main cav attack is repulsed, when you decisively rout the other wing

>>2466925
kicking the Teutonic knights out too, but that was only after they were wrong.

>>2466955
>now get fucked protestant scum

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>>2466961
>winning can be so sweet when GOD is on your side

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>>2466969
>and thats it--- wait what the hell is happening

And just like that you go from having won the war, subjugated the german nations, humiliated the Bohemians,. Moravians, Dutch, English and Danish and are about to form the >H>R>E into a real centralized empire ...
to having lost your primary army, having lost all your elite formations, have most of the german federal lords switch to the Swedes and practically having lost the war in the span of a couple of hours

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>>2466747
DELET THIS

IT COULD HAVE BEEN SO BEAUTIFUL GODDAMMIT

>>2466913
>French money and troops actually only came into play in larger quantity some 4-5 years later. And at that point the Swedes had gotten their shit together again and stabilized the situation in germany.
The Swedish army got annhilated at Nördlingen pal.France had to intervene directly after the Swedes got BTFO

>>2468607
But they kept winning again long before the French did.

>>2466747
The German Empoire could have been formed so much earlier, its a shame.
Either in 1630 or in 1635 after Nördlingen and the Peace of Prague, imperial power was surpeme.

>>2469252
>But they kept winning again long before the French did.
No.They won a bunch of skirmishes when the Spanish army had to moved to Flanders.The Swedes had no chance in heaven to do defeat the catholic league after Nordlingen and retreated to Northern Germany.Richelieu was forced to declare war on Spain in 1635 after the defeat

>>2465634
>hehe mm
back to /SvT/ you go

>>2466060
cathocuck detected

>>2469302
>Richelieu was forced to declare war on Spain in 1635 after the defeat
And spend the next years getting BTFO
Meanwhile the swedish army destroyed the main imperial army at Wittstock just two years after Nördlingen and with this secured northern germany. Chemnitz and especially Breitenfeld II secured Saxony and opened the way into Bohemia.

French money played a part and they kept imperial and spanish armies busy (by losing to them) who otherwise might have put more pressure on the Swedes, but by and large the Swedes won their reputation back and controlled northern germany by their own strenght

>>2466771
>miracle
it's not a miracle he was just that based

>you'll never kill a Swedish king for nothing but monetary compensation

>>2469319
The catholic league was in shambles and only Spain was keeping them on top.When France declared war the Swedes just picked on weak peasant armies with their seasoned mercenaries.

>>2469345
The same weak peasant armies that defeated the best efforts of the French at the same time?

>>2469306
dds

>>2469394
>The same weak peasant armies that defeated the best efforts of the French at the same time?
France faced the tercios.The catholic league was Baviera and a bunch of bishops + the almost none army of Austria.The Swede delussion that they were a major power is too strong.

>>2469422
The bunch of bishops defeated the Grand Conde and freakin Turenne. And even when the French were victorious it was with massive losses, more then against the Spanish

>>2469401
>>>/SvT/