Why is there no great composer from the UK ?

>>2463246
Never heard of Elgar?

>>2463246
Have you not heard of Holst?

>>2463262
Ok, I'll give you that.
>>2463268
It's really pretty bad.
But whatever, this is not about my tastes. The thing us, pretty much everyone in Europe agreed the Brits were terrible in music. And it's true that while the UK was the richest country on Europe, it never produced as many composers as Germany, Italy, Russia or France.

>>2463246
Because there is no great protestant composer as protestant are obnubilated by money and great music doesn't produce any. The only exception was Bach but he was very religious.

Delius, Purcell, Vaughan Williams, Tallis, Britten...

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>>2463332
>a literal faggot

>>2463303
>Great

>>2463583
(You)

bumping this shit thread in the hopes some decent conversation might result

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Do immigrants count?

Purcell and Elgar were very good.

Holst has that one suite, but he's more famous than many better composers. He was good enough to immortalize his name.

There was a lull post-Purcell (and Handel, since he probably counts) where there were no really world-class British composers until you get to the 20th century.

But the English produced a lot of great composers of the early Renaissance, plus the viol school too. It's just that then the Franco-Flemish took over and the English lagged about 50 years behind the continent. But then also they have Byrd, who is probably the greatest composer they produced, so it's all shades of variance

>>2464247
Oh yes, the Renaissance. Byrd, Tallis, Downland are on the A team of Renaissance composers.

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Anglos are shit in artistic fields because they're soulless creatures.

>>2464288
This is an evil meme, but if I looked only at their philosophy, namely analytical philosophy, perceiving that it is so unimaginative and dull, so lifeless and removed from any historical and psychological depth and complexity, from any consideration for aesthetics, the plainness and monotony only interrupted by the occasional "witty" remark of British "humor", as to appear the work of some shopkeeper or clerk than a proper philosopher, I'd think that the people that produced such philosophy wouldn't produce the best art either.

>>2464262
I'm thinking more Dunstable, Browne, Fayrfax, Power and Frye.

>>2464247
>There was a lull post-Purcell (and Handel, since he probably counts) where there were no really world-class British composers until you get to the 20th century.
But why ? Russia was poor compared to the UK and still had great composers. It's really weird and show the UK was never a super power like the USA, who is not only the richest and most powerful country, but also achieved cultural hegemony.

>>2465246

In terms of influential composers, the Russians were even worse off than the Brits (I'm interpreting "great" composer as influential, not just a simple aesthetic judgement). The first hundred years of Russian engagement with European classical music consisted of pastiches of French and Italian composers of the time. It's not really until (arguably) Rimsky-Korsakov, but certainly Tchaikovsky, that the Russians produced anyone who was particularly relevant outside of their own borders.

The British thing can be explained in part by the fact that the Brits were responsible for funding/commissioning new works by a lot of foreign composers, prioritising that over supporting home-grown talent. I remember reading a funny little book published in 1910 in which the author went to great pains to explain this phenomenon in some really quite entertainingly nationalistic language.
Off the top of my head, Haydn, Mendelssohn, Beethoven and Dvorak wrote some of their most-highly regarded works on commission from British patrons.

>>2463246
From the vikings to Francis Drake, Britains importance was based on raiding other countries.

>>2465427
That's actually interesting, thanks.

>>2464022
Händel, not Handel

>>2463246
Pete Townsend

>>2465666
Stop deadnaming Handel. He chose a new name upon becoming British.

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Too busy building things, I'd take one Brunel/Trevithick over 100 composers any day.

When everyone else was writing operas, Oliver Cromwell was busy banning fun.

>>2463246
John Dowland

>>2463246

Classical music is derived from Folk music. The Irish never produced classical music as the Protestants prohibited them from having a musical culture of there own. The Protestants literally stopped them from playing music.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghyOye3MFQY

>>2466641
>Classical music is derived from Folk music.
Interesting point you've got there my man.

Britain became a society of shopkeepers, accountants, clerks and merchants, with corresponding musical tastes. France too, after the revolution, developed an EXTREMELY bad, bourgeois taste in music, relative to the time of Louis XIV, preferring operettas, ballets and even cabaret music to more serious works.

>>2463246
>Holst
>Elgar
>Purcell
>Clarke
>Britten
>Vaughan Williams
>Dowland
>Byrd
>Dunstable

>>2467230
Are Brits this pathetic ?
For every composer you have, I can give you at least 3 german composers, better and more famous.

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The real question is: why was it Germany that dominated classical music and not Italy? Italians invented everything related to classical music: modern musical theory, the piano, harpsichord, violin, viola, cello, double bass, etc. But in terms of composers they are rather weak compared to Germans.

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>>2468633
Because Italy is more of a powerhouse at painting, sculpting and at architecture. They're artistically inclined enough to basically invent classical music, but prefer to focus in the fields that they excel the most at.

>>2463246

England lacked the court culture of Europe due to geographical segregation from the rest of Europe and political revolutions that reduced the role of the monarch and the nobles. Classical music is a courtly affair.

>>2468773
But even in the 19th century, the UK failed to produce great composers. I dont think I've ever heard an opera in english.

>>2468568
Are Continentals this pathetic? For every response to OP, there are at least 3 shitposts, all butthurt and zero content.

>>2468825
Actually, there were informative posts that explained why the UK didn't produce composers. But there also were butthurt Brits who had to list unkown composers and deny that the UK had a poor musical culture.

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>>2468633
>>2468706
I would say Italy is still the second country behind Germany in classical music though.

>Gabrieli
>Monteverdi
>Scarlatti
>Corelli
>Vivaldi
>Boccherini
>Verdi
>bonus points for inventing the instruments, opera and shit

>>2465643
Wow, never thought I'd read such a thing on this board.

>>2468885
I wouldn't want to shit on Italy, but France and Russia would both have to be ranked over them as far as classical composers go.

>>2468898
>France

Are you serious?

>Russia

Meme. They have very few great composers overall considering the size of their population.

>>2468633
Italy was hugely musically important really from the mid/late Renaissance into the classical era. Lots of the great composers of the Renaissance period sang in the Sistine chapel choir, but it's particularly following the sack of Rome in 1527 that Italy got more important for music, as the Venetians sought to establish themselves as the "first" city of the peninsula. As a result, you have a veritable list of the "who's who" in music of the time occupying the position of Maestro di cappella in St Mark's. The layout of the cathedral also influenced the music being written, leading to bigger, polychoral works designed to exploit the architecture. Whilst this was introduced by a foreign composer (Willaert) but then taking up by the Italians that followed him.

Then the baroque period basically starts in Italy, with Monteverdi, as well as the creation of opera - an art form which the Italians would dominate until Wagner - the Germans only come to "dominate" music because post-Beethoven, and only then because they did a very good job of convincing everyone that only people who wrote good teutonic symphonies could be considered "good" composers.

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>>2468930
>tfw plebs think Wagner is better than Verdi today

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>>2468633
>double bass
Thank you Italy! \m/

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>>2468930
>Italy was hugely musically important really from the mid/late Renaissance into the classical era

Middle Ages as well. That's when Guido of Arezzo invented modern musical notation.

>>2468956
Important as a theorist certainly, but in terms of actually music composed during the medieval period (at least that we still have evidence of), most of the "important" stuff came out of the Notre-Dame school.
It seems like music in Italy starts to get particularly interesting in the 14th century, as the troubadours of Occitania arrived on the peninsula.

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>>2468978
>not knowing about based Landini

>>2468861
>unkown composers
Maybe if you are a clueless "I love classical. Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, the list goes on..." turbopleb. Australian Classic FM run a themed poll every year, just checking 2014's "Baroque and Before" at the top of the past countdowns page Handel (whether or not you wish to count him is your choice), Purcell and Tallis make the top 10. Vaughan Williams makes the top ten of the original unthemed 2001 poll.

>>2469000
>basing your opinion on something on meme lists on the internet

People that do this should be shot.

>>2469044
>prove composers are not unknown by using a poll on national radio
>/int/poster shitposts some more by claiming I'm "basing my opinion on ... meme lists"
wew lad
fuck off back to your designated shitposting board

Protestantism.

>>2469184
Explain Germany then

>Lennon

>>2469203
Mozart and Beethoven were Catholic.

>>2469206
Bach certainly wasn't
And Mozart was Austrian

>>2469214
>Austria
>not Germany Jr.

wew lad

>>2469214
And Bach wasn't from Germany either
When talking about a country that's only existed since 1871 it's easy to assume you are talking about the nation not the country

>>2469219
>catholic southern ""Germany"" is the same as the protestant north

>>2469230
West Germany is Catholic too.

>>2463246
Ralph Vaughan Williams

Gilbert and Sullivan :^)

Fripp?

Why was music the preferred means of expression of the Germans? All of the best composers being German and all.

Henry 8 was a fine composer. Pre-reformation England was one of the leaders in music of the time and had one of the best choirs.

>>2469000
>Australian Classic FM
Clearly not biaised. What about all those great operas in english?

>>2465700
What a joke, literally no one outside Anglo countries call him Handel

>>2467230
Who?

>>2469994
>Clearly not biaised.
Well yeah, it's a poll from out in the real world. People, probably mostly elderly, genuine fans of the music, completely unconcerned with autistic pissing contests from retards who have turned their brains to mush from huffing too much /int/.
>What about all those great operas in english?
Dido and Aeneas comes to mind straight away.

>>2470043
Why would you go out of the way to make yourself look completely ignorant just for a cheap shot? Even if you had the very most shallow of interests in the music, you would have at least heard of Holst. Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Britten, very common knowledge. Dunstable, Bird, Dowland, fine composers of the Renaissance.

Is there any famous female composer or i'm just ignorant?

Are women only capable of interpreting music rather than creating?

>>2470167
There are lots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtlCpIoWQUo

>>2470105
Byrd* fucking autocorrect.

>>2470105
>Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Britten, very common knowledge.
They are not common knowledge at all. They are secondary composers barely known safe for those interrested. You can fond these kind of composers in every country. It's like comparing Franck and Chausson to Debussy and Wagner.
It's quite clear to anyone who isn't a complete hypocrite that the UK had less impact on music than France, Germany or Italy, despite being richer than all of these.

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>>2470211

>>2470326
>They are not common knowledge at all. They are secondary composers barely known safe for those interrested.
I agree, I pretty much said the same in this post. >>246900
The average guy on the street might be able to name half a dozen composers, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Wagner, and a couple of wild cards. The average anencephalitic human piece of shit from /int/ might be able to name whatever is on the Evangelion soundtrack. Who I'm talking about is the person with a moderate interest in orchestral music, in chamber music; who will have doubtless heard Elgar (Enigma variations is not far behind the Pomp and Circumstance marches in the meme stakes); is very likely to have heard of Vaughan Williams; and Brittenwas a key part of a fucking Wes Anderson film, how fucking mainstream does it have to get? Not that this is a popularity contest otherwise DJ KHALED 4 LYF MAJOR KEY, the OP said great composers which Britain doubtless has, although shitheel retards from /int/ will probably continue to insist that their own ignorance is somehow a suitable measure of eminence.

>>2469396
Didn't he write Greensleeves?

>>2470708
Not sure, I commonly see it attributed to Anon

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>>2463361
>2017
>not wanting a dick in your arse
Whos the real faggot here anon

>>2463246
Normans crushed Anglo Kultur and molded them into economics obsessed servants.

>>2470708
It is often attributed to him, on scant evidence.

>>2464022
for some resson umlaut isn'tn always allowed since it's non-ascii. At least I have that problem on 4chins a lot.

>>2466610
Mah nigga

Daniel Bacheler
Robert Dowland
John Johnson

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*ahem*

>>2463332
He was a zoroastrian from Tanzania