ITT. Aftermatch Siege of Jerusalem

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Please respond

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No. Saladin was actually looking forward to slaughtering all christians in Jerusalem. During the siege christians asked a number of times for terms of surrender and Saladin refused each time, because if they'd surrender, he wouldn't have a reason to slaughter civilians as punishment.
But eventually christians vowed to destroy every muslim holy place in Jerusalem before they die, and it was only then that Saladin was forced to agree to terms of surrender. People would be allowed to leave if they pay heavy ransom, those who can't afford to pay would be enslaved. He was hoping that the nobles would just pay and leave, leaving those who couldn't afford to pay to their fate. But instead, Balian and many other nobles spent almost all their money to pay ransom for their people.
I don't know where the myth of Saladin being merciful comes from. He must have had an awesome PR manager. After all, he is a man who had hundreds of Templars and Hospitallers executed after the battle of Hattin, after they laid down their weapons. Basically commiting a war crime.
The BBC documentary you mentioned along with many others has a tendency to portray christians as evil savages and muslims as noble, civilized people, because of political corectness. God forbid if the audience would realize that the christians could be the victims. I mean christians are always the villains, right? Right?

>>2422961

Mmmm.

List your sources please.

>>2422961

>basically committing a war crime

Let me guess, the christians dindu nuffin right?

>>2422883
The Christian's had to pay a ransom those that couldn't afford it were made slaves.

>>2422967
"Templars: History & Myth" and "The Tragedy of the Templars" by Michael Haag, "Un Choc de Religions" by Jean-Paul Roux, "Crusader Castles" by Hugh Kennedy, and "God's Battalions" by Rodney Stark.

>>2422980

Does this still goes against the idea of a merciful conqueror such as Saladin?

Surely paying ransom or else be forced to a life of servitude was better than being butchered?

>>2422977
Christians commited only one war crime - the aftermath after the siege of Jerusalem in 1099. And even that was commited by angry mobs, the actual crusaders - the nobles with their knights - were trying to prevent the massacre. meanwhile, Muslims were doing such shit on regular basis. Lookk at Ani 1064, Edessa 1144, Antioch 1268.

>>2422988

>And even that was commited by angry mobs, the actual crusaders - the nobles with their knights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Ayyadieh

A man as biased as you is not to be trusted.

Sorry.

>>2422977
Yeah you are right. Islamic expansion was a freedom fight of poor oppressed muslims againt white supremacy.

>>2422992
Yes, that was Richards payback. Eye for en eye. No more christian forgiveness and mercy towards enemies, if they don't have mercy with you.

>>2422999
>yeah im totally not biased
>thats why I take the side of poor innocent oppressed muslim dindunuffins regardless of context

>>2422999
If stating historical facts offends you so much and you ignore tham because they go against you ideals and perception, perhaps it's you who's biased.

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>>2422999

>@2422995

>>2423018
>>>/reddit/
Fucking newfags

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>>2423018

I don't think they're the only ones who have somewhere they should go back to, anon.

>>2423018
If you're not interrested in discussing history, then why are you here?

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>>2422999
>>2423018
>@
You're not from this side of town, are you?

>>2423034
open up, here comes the aeroplane
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+reply+to+someone+on+4chan

>>2423034
"pol redpilled facts" You mean facts from the sources I stated above? Enlighten me. State your sources. Other than that one BBC documentary you saw once and Wikipedia. Go ahead. I'll wait.

>>2422999
>>2423018
We get it, you want this, here's your (You). Now please stop your "@" shit so those of us who were lurking peacefully can follow the thread? You're making it slightly difficult to discern who the assholes are here. Oh that's right, it's (You). (Have a twofer, it's on me.)

>Anxiously awaiting your snappy reply.

>>2422961 is correct. Saladin had no problem killing anyone that crossed him, especially Christians. That's how the world worked back then.

>>2422984
Well, depends on who your slave master is.
But either way, "merciful conqueror" is a bit too naive. Saladin was a Kurd that conquered both Fatimids and Seljuks, uniting Egypt, Syria, and Persia. You have to be a mean motherfucker to achieve something like that.

A lot of the Christians in the city were indeed saved, but that is more because of the agreement between Balian and Saladin than because of some Muslim virtue, as is attested by Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad, who states that Balian surrendered all of his goods from all of his lands to buy up the freedom of as many Christians as possible.

However, what is often forgotten is that a lot of people still could not pay their ransom, so over 10 000 civilians, mostly women and children, were enslaved and brutalized by the Muslims upon entering the city(read Imad ad-Din al-Isfahani).


In reality, both the Crusaders and the Muslims honored the aspect of chivalry on many occasions while ignored them sometimes.

The issue is that history remembers massacres far more than cities being spared.

For instance, the Crusaders not only spared the citizens of Sidon, but even allowed them to carry as much of their goods as they could with them and even provided them with an armed escort to Muslim lands.

>>2422992

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Ayyadieh

That is a slaughter of a military garrison and is fully within the reason of military decisions.

Richard was besieged and could not feed all those prisoners and Saladin was purposefully stalling because of that reason.

Not to mention that having over 2000 prisoners within walls during a siege is a bad idea.

>>2423031
>>2423041
It's so easy to detect reddit newfriends like this retard

>>2422961
Do you have autism?

>>2422961
So tell me then.. what exactly prevented Saladin from saying fuck it and killing the Christians after winning?

god you christfags really are the beggest dindus

I really hate threads like this where everyone feels like they have to choose a side. During the crusades, the muslims and christian were pretty much on the same moral level. Both took turns being assholes.
Saladin was based tho.

>>2422883

Saladin only has this reputation for mercy and wisdom in the West, Muslims see him as a tyrant and despot. Much like how Westerners love Gorbachev, but in Russia he's literally worse than Hitler.

When they discovered, from the admissions of some of them, that there were Catholics mingled with the heretics they said to the abbot “Sir, what shall we do, for we cannot distinguish between the faithful and the heretics.” The abbot, like the others, was afraid that many, in fear of death, would pretend to be Catholics, and after their departure, would return to their heresy, and is said to have replied “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius - Kill them all for the Lord knoweth them that are His” (2 Tim. ii. 19) and so countless number in that town were slain.[5][6]

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11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

>>2423702
>Muslims see him as a tyrant and despot
What ? That's wrong muslims totally see him as a hero

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>>2423671
>>2423396
>>2422977
>>2422967

you people are fucking pathetic

>>2423706

>posts a quote from the Albigensian Crusade in a thread about the 3rd Crusade

I wonder why.

>>2422961
>I don't know where the myth of Saladin being merciful comes from. He must have had an awesome PR manager.

From contemporary Europeans themselves. His own chroniclers tended to downplay and criticize Saladin more often than they lionized him, saying he didn't do enough during his rule to fully conquer and drive off the Crusader States. The fact that Saladin was willing to let the nobility ransom themselves immediately instead of taking them prisoner and slowly squeezing them for ransom over months or even years is what gave him a reputation for mercy for the Europeans who managed to return home. That a lot of the poor got enslaved in the end didn't matter much any more than the poor dying in any other battle or raid in Europe.

European authors included Saladin as a wise man of the East sort of character in countless poems and plays from then on, while he was gradually forgotten as just one of many dynasts whose empire eventually crumbled in the Middle East. There's a reason why Dante counted him as a virtuous pagan in his Inferno.

>>2422898
SALADIN'D

I'm just here to remind everyone that Saladin was a Kurd.

>>2423756
And your pathetic for being pissed at a bunch of retards on a Japanese whaling website. Everyone knows that both sides committed atrocities to each other, because it's fucking war and that's what happens in war.

>>2424590
AYOO HOL UP

>>2423771

2nd Crusade*

>>2422883
it's not even clear that the first siege of jerusalem was a massacre either OP. i've read stuff along the lines that "the blood going up to the ankles" was a rhetorical trope