How can the catholic church dislike Luther? From ~1100 to ~1600

Jeez, maybe because he PROTESTED against them?

>>2401838
I protest against you from posting in this thread

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>>2401826
They tend to ignore that fact, and instead look at what happenned afterwards, especially how it divided Europe. and resulted in various conflicts.

For instance: The Thirty Years´ War.

>>2401826
Why do they hate all the other heresies? They were just as corrupt when Catharism was a thing, and it spread for the same reasons

>>2401847
well MAYBE if the CATHOLICS didn't have an insatiable thirst for power the wars could have been avoided. or, PERHAPS, if they werent CORRUPT AS FUCK in the first place...

>>2401855
I guess it´s a little more complex than muh religion. Protestants did represent a threat towards the Emperor of the HRE, and other nations were simply opportunistic.

>>2401826
Even Luther himself later regretted everything.

>>2401887
proofs?

>>2401890
"I regret everything"

t. Martin Luther

>>2401887
From what I understood he wanted reform rather than a splintering of Christianity.

>>2401890
"Protestantism was a mistake."
- Luther

>>2401901
Can't argue with that...

>>2401909
Protestant Reformation is the best thing that could have happened to christians. It was only a "church" in name when Luther / Tyndale / Calvin / Knox came on the scene.

>>2401909
well that COULD have been possible but the CATHOLICS would not relent

>>2402077
Because the Catholic Church is the Church Christ himself built. It is the only path to salvation, all other denominations are heresy.

>>2402103
highly unlikely

>>2402103
The early christians were evangelicals not catholics

>>2401826
He unjustifiably and unnecessarily shattered Christianity unity for who knows how long

>From ~1100 to ~1600 it was arguably the most corrupt institution to ever have existed.

No. Besides, nothing justifies schism.

>>2402119
Wrong.

>>2402122
>ignoring the schism betwixt orthodoxy and catholicism after CATHOLICS raped and pillaged istanbul.

nice revisionism there

>>2402131
They practiced adult baptism and spoke in tongues,sounds evangelical to me

>>2402135
The schism was not because of Constantinople.

>>2402141
nonetheless...

>>2402137
evangelicals are retarded m8

>>2401826
>it was arguably the most corrupt institution to ever have existed
Given all the little boys who have been and continue to be traumatized by preacher-sinners, it is certainly one of them.
But all religions are about a bunch of guys' dominating women and children. Insecure people need to try and control others by force.
I can easily think of another religion that mostly rapes little girls. They likely also claim to be "saving" them.

>>2402264
Every insittuion under the sun is the same way. Schools, Hospitals, governments, sports teams. Everything is open to abuse. As is powerless people capable of abuse towards strangers.

Luther motivated the counter-reformation which restored Christianity in the West for another 400 years. For this i'm appreciative. This being said, losing the Northern states of Europe is a loss.

>>2401826
Because they support the corruption, which is why they oppose the Reformation. The chief corruption is the corruption of the true gospel into a false gospel, and they adore this corruption.

>>2401887
That's not exactly true. Luther regretted that the Reformation happened the way it did, and especially regretted the mistakes he had made, but maintained that the Reformation was absolutely necessary.

>>2402103
The Lord Jesus founded a Congregation, not an institution. Where the gospel is preached, there is the Church. The Roman church had been cut off, because it did not continue in faith, and had forfeited the title 'Israel of God'.

>>2402122
>He unjustifiably and unnecessarily shattered Christianity unity for who knows how long
No, he restored Christian unity by the recovery of Christian liberty.
>Besides, nothing justifies schism.
We did not leave Rome, Rome left us.

>>2402351
The Counter-Reformation was a work of Satan

>>2402565
>Christian liberty
Christianity was never about any form of liberty except for liberty from the desires of flesh.

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The RCC started a counter-reformation with the order of the Jesuits.

Jesuits are the most evil, diabolical organization in the world. Catholics are the spawn of Satan.

Read the book "The Two Babylons" to understand how the Vatican is nothing but a satanic counterfeit religion.

>>2402574
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14

And Catholic don't(mostly cannot) recognize that the reformation is revivalist movement to the gospel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56iHIhtGl4Q

>>2402584
Read it. Had no significance.

>>2402591
It grants Christians the liberty of conscience on minor issues

>>2402319
U my dawg, dawg

>>2402594
Where?

>>2402630
Literally the whole chapter, but in particular verse 5
>One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

>>2402630
>14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

>>2402642
but wasn't luther protesting the moral laxity of the Catholic Church?

>>2402648
Yes, and?
Paul isn't saying it's ok to sin

>>2402652
So the reformation was not about the liberty of conscience on minor issues

>>2402658
>minor issues
Sin is not a minor issue
>So the reformation was not about the liberty of conscience on minor issues
No, it wasn't, it was about the sufficiency of God's grace to save sinners.

>>2402662
>No, it wasn't, it was about the sufficiency of God's grace to save sinners.
So you admit your wrong here >>2402565

>>2402664
*you're

>>2402664
I didn't claim the Reformation was about the liberty of conscience on minor issues, I claimed that the Reformation restored the liberty of conscience on minor issues, which is a fact.

>>2401881
>Protestants did represent a threat towards the Emperor of the HRE
nope. Charles V bungled the the spread of protestantism. If he had immediately crushed the reformation and even executed Luther he could've nipped the Reformation in the bud. Once it had spread like wildfire in the early 1520s, the only option was some sort of accommodation. But he didn't do that. He waited 20 years before attacking the Protestants in the Schmalkaldic War. He won that war but it was a hollow victory. The Schmalkaldic league got dissolved but the protestantism was too popular to be rooted out by force. When Charles V tried to follow up his victory by reincorporated the lutherans into the catholic church again, but it utterly backfired because Catholic princes didn't like growing imperial power and the protestants rose up in arms and drove Charles out of Germany.

>>2402674
>I claimed that the Reformation restored the liberty of conscience on minor issues, which is a fact.
How? Especially considering the whole point was to remove perceived moral laxity.

>>2402676
with french funding* i should ad at the end

>>2402679
>How?
This has already been explained to you. Baptists and Lutherans do not anathematize each other because they believe in the liberty of the Christian.
>Especially considering the whole point was to remove perceived moral laxity.
Sin is not a minor issue

>>2402693
Having a different doctrine is not a minor issue of conscience . Also I've f heard Lutherans call baptist heretics so your claim is BS.

>>2402679
>perceived moral laxity
It was actual moral laxity. Peasants would deliberately sin all day, then go to confession and buy an indulgence.

>>2402679
Not the guy you're arguing with but the major issue of the Reformation was essentially the obfuscation by the Church on the matter of justification, expressly for the purpose of obtaining revenue.

>>2402697
>the major issue of the Reformation was essentially the obfuscation by the Church on the matter of justification
I thought it was indulgences.

>>2402695
>Having a different doctrine is not a minor issue of conscience
Yes it is. If we proclaim the same gospel, and worship the same God, why should we anathematize each other?
>Also I've f heard Lutherans call baptist heretics
I haven't, but I have heard Catholics call Hindus their brothers, so I guess that makes Catholicism a modernist liberal pluralist universalist religion.

>>2402701
Indulgences were the initial cause of the Reformation, but justification was the material principle.

>catholicucks

>>2402703
>Yes it is.
So why do you have an issue with Catholics?

>>2402709
Because we have a different gospel

>>2402710
>Because we have a different gospel
Sounds rather relative. After all the gospels are only slightly different.

tell me about Luther, why did he hate jews?

>>2402715
Because they didn't want to be Christian. He was very open and unusually lax towards them in the beginning ; until he realized that they basically had a long standing culture of NOT being Christian and rejecting missionary attempts. Prior to this he seemed to think that no one had properly attempted to evangelize among them rather than them simply not wanting to be Christian. His realization of this led to his harsh criticism of them and desire to simply seem them expelled

>>2402711
The gospel is a message, not a writing

>>2402715
Because they are ever a stiffnecked people

>>2402103
>the Catholic Church is the Church Christ himself built
jews build synagogues, not churches

>>2402740
Jesus founded a Church, not a synagogue

>>2402742
no, his followers did

>>2402746
Jesus founded it through them. He sent the Spirit on pentecost

>>2402696
that isn't how it worked. only the rich bought indulgences, most of the money being used to renovate papal rome (not that that is a good thing necessarily)

>>2402696
>Peasants would deliberately sin all day, then go to confession and buy an indulgence.

>tfw this is the history board
>tfw you expect people to be even slightly historically literate

>>2401826
Heresy is heresy.

>>2402773
The Lakers are heretics to the Spurs.

>>2402154
Nice argument

>>2402763
Peasants could afford indulgences if they saved their money
>>2402770
Not an argument

>>2401826
If a shitload of people were donating money, land, and valuables to you, and then someone convinced them to stop, how would you feel about that someone?

He ultimately fell into terrible sin. He started with good intentions, but by the end of things his heresy was so great as to make all his original aims worthless. He called for the abolition of the priesthood, and removed books from the Bible he claimed to love.

I think he was an instrument of Satan, personally. The Devil took him up and made him a tool.

>>2402997
>He called for the abolition of the priesthood
Rightly so, there is no Christian priesthood in scripture, it is nothing more than a novelty
>removed books from the Bible
No mere man can remove from scripture, since those books derive their canonicity solely from the fact they are God-breathed. The loss of the Hebrew originals of those seven books demonstrates their mere human origin.

>my branch of heresy is better than your branch of heresy.
First christians were gnostics.

>>2403158
"The Logos was made flesh"
t. John, the disciple who Jesus loved

>>2401826
>why would they dislike the guy who led millions of souls to damnation

hmmmm

>>2402558
>The Lord Jesus founded a Congregation, not an institution. Where the gospel is preached, there is the Church.

Wrong, Christ said each person was a stone of a temple and that when one is with another, God is there.

This was to counter the obsession in judaism to a central temple.

The gospel has nothing to do with it.

>>2403164
Source: the book of lies whose miracles can't be done, meanwhile I reached gnosis and had spirit sex just fine.

>>2403167
He led people to salvation, since he restored the true gospel

>>2403178
Get accustomed to those demons who showed you signs, you'll be with them for eternity

>>2403189
>demons!
Do a miracle so I can see you truly belong to God.
*crickets*

>>2403189
I only listen to people who can do miracles lest I fall in the hands of verbose deceivers.

>>2403193
No, you have no right to demand anything of your creator. He who fashioned your soul will destroy it.

>>2403193
No, you have no right to demand anything of your creator. He who fashioned your soul will destroy it.
>>2403194
The true God would not make Himself your servant, to order about.

>>2403195
Youre not my creator, so I will feel free to discard your words as falsehoods, as for my destiny, I'm omw to heaven.

That's not true though, that's the period in which it became a serious bureaucracy which interfered in politics only later in that time did they lose the plot, unless you think forminh such an empire is losing the plot in the first place(I disagree).

It was really ingenious, the church was seminal in the rise of europe and was one of the main contributors to trade, which always flowed to Italy and that helped spark the Renaissance, here's how it worked.

So a bishopry from northern europe collects a Tithe for the pope and is supposed to send it to him. However transporting money all the way to Italy is way too dangerous so they found a way around it. First they notified the pope that a Tithe could be collected.
Then in Rome auctions are held, the Tithes are auctioned to the highest bidder, who may then collect it. These would then contact merchants to whom they'd give the tithe as a loan(remember loans without interest weren't forbidden) and the merchants would take the tithe from the bishop and use it to trade so they make a profit, they would travel southward trading on the way to eventually repay their loan in Italy and they still made a profit. This ensured that Italy would be the economic heart of europe and it was good for the economy overall. Not to mention it spawned Italian banking.
just something I wanted to share.

>>2403189

If you think Goddess Sofia is a Demon, like Yahweh, then disprove Tesla when he said everything is light.

>>2402715
>>2402715
>>2402715

>>2401838
>>2401846
>>2401901
Classic /his/

>>2402264

>Given all the little boys who have been and continue to be traumatized by preacher-sinners, it is certainly one of them.

Problem is worse in Protestant denominations and worse still in secular institutions.

>>2403203
Thanks for salvaging this &humanities thread with a bit of real history.

>>2403427
allme

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>2017
>catholics are still butthurt
>mfw

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>>2405770
>mfw Protestant talks about Xianity to me

>>2401826
Protestants aren't Christian.

Protestantism is precusely a subversive movement designed to infiltrate christianity with elements of satanism, judaism and islam

>>2405841
Catholics aren't Christian

>>2406300
>>2405841
Ladies and gentlemen I give you the last several hundred years.

>>2401826

Kind of answered your own question there sport.

>>2406304
A thousand.

With tens of millions of murdered "protestants" at the hands of "the church Jesus started".

All you have to know to determine just how evil the Vatican is would be to look at the pope's audience hall.

They're not even hiding it anymore.

>>2405841
>with elements of satanism, judaism and islam

Go ahead and outline those for us, skippy.

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>>2401826
friendly reminder than jesus doesn't fulfill any requirements for being the messiah and worshipping him is idolatry

>>2405841
>implying catholicism and shia islam and its left-field ghulat branch aren't similar to catholicism
>implying that the catholic clergy aren't a priestly caste equivalent to the jewish sanhedrin behind jesus' execution
>implying the posts arent antichrists who commune with the Devil and who presides over a church that worships idols, practices a ritual imitating cannibalism and who deify ordinary men claiming they can perform satanic magic. Not to mention the worship of saints and giving them special attributes akin to heathen gods (saint for cooking, saint for protection, saint for fertility, etc. etc.)
may papists burn in this life and the next desu

>>2403170
>The gospel has nothing to do with it

The Good News has nothing to do with Christianity? Augustine would like a word.

Hell, you're starting to sound like Pelagius.

>>2405841
>Islam

Okay, Calvin I can see, but otherwise? Nah.

I want to see the Church united and whole again, but Catholics gotta at least recognize divine grace as sufficient. I get not accepting sola scriptura when Luther tossed out a whole two books, but those were apocryphal anyway.

Calvin can just fuck off with the determinism, though. Fate is not fated, and kismet is pagan.

>>2404286
>Problem is worse in Protestant denominations and worse still in secular institutions.
Considering the catholic church actively conceals its members crimes and then moves the swine to new churches and countries to avoid arrest,

how worse exactly?

>>2406945
Incident rates.

>>2406931
>I get not accepting sola scriptura when Luther tossed out a whole two books, but those were apocryphal anyway.

You realize that sentence is contradictory, right?

>>2406945
The Catholic Church, for all her sins, did not give us Creflo Dollar and Joel Osteen.

And Anglicans are objectively worse about pederasty than even the nastiest rumor you've heard about Roman Catholics.

But what do I know, I'm just a CMA kid.

>>2406965
No reporting incidents means the church is better?

>>2406978
As if that accounts for the difference.

https://www.christiancentury.org/article/2013-10/evangelicals-worse-catholics-sexual-abuse

>>2406990
It accounts for the churches lack of moral virtue

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>>2407001
>Blaming "the church" for evil men

>>2407011
>Claiming to be one true church
>Raping children
>Getting away with it because friends with pope

>>2407025
And the fact that Protestants (and secular institutions) are worse about it means nothing to you. You don't seem to care about the victims unless they support your agenda.

This is why I'm an Orthodox Christian, Catholics and Protestants can't get their shit straight.

>>2407043
I don't even want to think about the kiddy-raping the Orthodox probably get into. Given how cozy the Russian Orthodox Church is with the oligarchs in Russia, I shudder to think what sort of perversions they enable.

"I Fear I May Have Integrated My People Into a Burning House" - Martin Luther King Jr.

>>2407032
and the fact that through its actions of concealing its legion of pedophiles, your church tacitly condones these activities shows that you care less about the victims than I