History of european alphabets

>>2399916
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the most widely used name for "Y" in Spanish is literally "Greek I".

And I think Portuguese use the Greek name for Y because it wasn't part of their alphabet until they adopted foreign words, and they tend to keep those letters with their original names. Spanish already had Y, but both adopted W and K as "foreign letters". K is still called "kapa" (from Greek kappa) in Portuguese in some regions, while W is directly transliteratied as "dabliu" from English. In Spanish, K is always called just "ka", and the name for W is translated rather than transliterated (and it even has competing translations).

How Portuguese lost the Greek name for Z (or why Spanish kept it) is anyone's guess.

>>2399916
In my language
>Y - igrek
>Z - tsett

>>2400267
This.
Only pretentious faggots and illiterate retards say "ye".
T. spaniard

>>2400379
"igrek" comes from French "i grec", its version of "Greek I" (compare with Spanish "i griega").

"tsett" bears resemblance to German Tset, though most of the "Standard Average European" languages and those influenced by it have similar names for Z (compare with British English "zed" and French "zède").

>>2400697
>using the official, most popular, and most logical name for a letter makes you a pretentious faggot or an illiterate retard
Get with the times, grandpa. "Ye" is consistent with other letter names, reflects its usage in the Spanish language (where it only sounds as a vowel when it is alone) and it's the most popular name for the letter (due to its usage in Latin America).

"Y griega" is just a dumb compromise to avoid calling it ypsilon.

>>2400773
I have literally never heard anyone call it 'ye' only ever 'i griega' idk what you're on m8

>>2400783
It's the most common name in Latin America and the correct version according to the RAE.

>>2400813
>most common name in Latin America
they have already bastardized the language enough, no need to remind me
>according to the RAE
didn't know that, but have never heard it used. to me it sounds to similar to 'eye' for ll. but tbf I have never myself been educated in Spain only through my family, I'll ask my friend who went to school there see what he was taught

>>2400813
>Latin America
They don't speak Spanish just an abortion of the language.They can't even get basic B1 grammar right

>>2400864
http://www.rae.es/consultas/un-solo-nombre-para-cada-letra

>>2400864
>>2400906
The regional variations of Latin American Spanish are internally consistent and more akin to separate evolutionary branches of the language than to a "bastardization" of it. The most prominent feature (the use of "vos" for second person singular) saw usage in Spain as a formal pronoun before falling out of disuse in favor of "usted" (while becoming the informal version instead of "tú" in the Latin American regions where voseo is observed). "Seseo" is also a well documented sound shift which in Spain went the other way around (making the difference between Z and S more pronounced instead of merging), and the drop of the second person plural conjugation (vosotros) was similarly observed in European Portuguese (with vós) as a natural evolution.

As far as I know, the closest thing you can find to an inconsistency in "Latin American Spanish" is the lack of standardization for the conjugation of "vos", which simplified the "vosotros" conjugations in different ways in different regions. If you're talking about other stuff when you say that Latin American Spanish is "wrong", please tell me about it as I'm genuinely interested.

>>2400984
Even the S drop at the end of words in Caribbean and Chilean Spanish is natural sound shift akin to what happened in French, while the aspiration of "S" into phonemes close to "H" (or Spanish J) observed in certain areas in Central America and the Caribbean are similarly observed in other Indo-European languages (compare Sindhu vs Hindu or Asura vs Ahura) and can be seen as a not-required transitional form before the above.

>>2400984
paellafags btfo

I dont understand how letters can have names. The name is surely itself?

Unless you phonetically spell out capital a as AYY

>>2401037
fuck off paella is the best food ever how dare you insult the dish of my grandmother this is a disgrace

>>2401055
Letters have had elaborate names literally since the beginning, as the Phoenician alphabet gave names to the letters according to what they represented (which were words that started with that letter). Greeks kept the names, albeit with phonetic changes (i.e. aleph and beyt became alpha and beta), but the Romans simplified most of them to just "sound of letter + neutral(ish) vowel" and later European languages followed suit.

>>2400813
It is not the correct version according to the RAE. Both are equally correct. They even say that "i griega" is more common.

>>2401124
Why does English not bother with it, which is of course the most logical thing to do, a letter should represent its sound and nothing more, no need for a name to confuse things.

Like in Arabic fucking A is Alif

>>2399916
>writing ipsilon with i
The absolute madmen

File: GreekI.gif (150KB, 600x470px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 600x470px

>>2400697

>>2401144
>Algunas de las letras tienen varios nombres con tradición y vigencia en diferentes zonas del ámbito hispánico. La nueva edición de la ortografía, sin ánimo de interferir en la libertad de cada hablante o país de seguir utilizando el nombre al que esté habituado, pretende promover hacia el futuro un proceso de convergencia en la manera de referirse a las letras del abecedario, razón por la que recomienda, para cada una de ellas, una denominación única común. El nombre común recomendado es el que aparece en la relación siguiente debajo de cada letra.

It's the "correct form" as much as anything delineated by the RAE is "correct". The RAE takes a rather descriptive approach to the language, having guidelines as recommendations rather than outright rules. Though yes, you're right in that both are equally correct and I should have used "official" or "recommended" instead.

>>2401162
But English does bother with it. When you sing the English alphabet, why do you think F, L, M and N are called "ef", "el", "em" and "en" instead of "fee", "lee", "mee" and "nee" (like "bee", "cee", "gee", etc.)? What about "aitch", "kay", "jay", "double u" and fucking "wy/why/wye" for H, K, J, W and Y? The names are just simple for most letters, just like they are in most modern European languages.

>>2401162
Anglos are too stupid to realize that E isn't pronounced i.

>>2399916
>ye
it's called "i griega" or "greek i" now

>>2401514
You got the now and the then backwards.

>>2401521
what

>>2401528
That it's called "ye" now, read the thread.

>>2401536
well, funny enough it became "greek i" again in Spain, so I assumed that "ye" was the original name, as it sounds more medieval to me

>>2401555
>it became "greek i" again in Spain
I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

>La letra y se denomina i griega o ye. El nombre i griega, heredado del latino, es la denominación tradicional y más extendida de esta letra, y refleja su origen y empleo inicial en préstamos del griego. El nombre ye se creó en la segunda mitad del siglo xix por aplicación del patrón denominativo que siguen la mayoría de las consonantes, y que consiste en añadir la vocal e a la letra correspondiente (be, ce, de, etc.). La elección de ye como nombre recomendado para esta letra se justifica por su simplicidad, ya que se diferencia, sin necesidad de especificadores, del nombre de la letra i.

http://www.rae.es/consultas/un-solo-nombre-para-cada-letra

>>2401634
yes, and then it became "i griega" again in the late XX century
nowadays nobody in Spain uses "ye" except some old people and maybe some region cause of their regional language or dialect

>>2401654
The link I gave you explains the orthography released in 2010 by the RAE where it concerns the names of the letters.

>>2401745
elblogdegramatica()blogspot()it/2014/05/nombre-de-la-letra-y-ye-o-i-griega()html

fuck ou 4chan, this is not spam

tldr: it's basically a mess
truth is that people is using "i griega" no matter what

also remember that RAE doesn't create the rules but acts as some kind of historian of the language

>>2401783
1. You do realize that your source is a blog post explaining what the RAE did and my source is the literal statement form the RAE's website, right?
2. You do also realize that said blog post is literally saying the same thing I am, right?

>also remember that RAE doesn't create the rules but acts as some kind of historian of the language
This is correct, the RAE is descriptive in nature, and as such "i griega" isn't incorrect. However, the use of "ye" instead is actively being encouraged by the largest organization that regulates the Spanish language, and said encouragement has recently risen, so saying that "now" it's called "i griega" is an extremely weird statement to make.

>ye

fucking asturianus

Latin American here. Nice to see some discussion about Spanish on /his/ for a change.

>>2400984
We do have some inconsistencies that stem from forcing vos into the second personal informal pronoun. Stuff like "te veo (a vos)" or "tené (vos) tu libro", because saying "os veo" or "tené vuestro libro" sounds archaic, pretentious and/or even wrong when addressing a single person.

Usurping tú for those instances as in the examples is the Central American solution. From experience, Rioplatense Spanish uses usted's possessives and object pronouns instead, although it might vary depending on the situation - which is something I wouldn't know since I've never really interacted with Argentines in a familiar environment.

There's also some conjugations where a 'tú' conjugation hijacks the 'vos' pronoun. Nobody says "vos habés", which would be consistent with the simple i-dropping from the 'vosotros' conjugation ("vosotros habéis") that forms most 'vos' conjugations in Central American Spanish (though then again, the verb 'haber' is already very irregular to begin with); and while past tense versions ("vos escribistes", "vos comistes", "vos cantastes" from "vosotros escribisteis", "vosotros comisteis", "vosotros cantasteis") see some use in rural areas, they're generally stigmatized and avoided by educated people. 'Tú' conjugations are used instead in all of these cases ("vos has", "vos escribiste", "vos comiste", "vos cantaste"), and most other conjugation tenses readily merge tú and vos as soon as the 'i' is dropped without further meddling, so you could technically say that vos is only really conjugated in present tense of the indicative mood and in the imperative mood. Other regions probably have similar such idiosyncrasies, but I wouldn't know about them.

In any case, thanks for helping dispel the notion that Latin American Spanish is somehow wrong or inferior.

Easy, it all comes from the Phonecians.

>>2399916
Is called "I griega/igreek"
T. last bastion of white race, Argentina

>>2407135
Race fetishists are the most obnoxious people in the world.