Why didn't Protestants just become Orthodox?

>>2372103

Because they're a Muslim plot to destabilise Europe.

Because Orthodoxy is just Catholicism lite.

It's the same shit except without a Pope.

>>2372103
A better question is what would eastern Protestantism have looked like. Probably iconoclastic and less refined philosophically but liturgy would probably be more dank.

>>2372117

>Imagine fighting multiple wars for sola fide and then telling the people, heh, just kidding guys.

Initially there were no wars though, it seems like if the reformers really were interested in going back to the "roots" of Christianity that they'd go to the original church instead of making their own which conflicts as much as they suggested Catholics do.

>>2372128
>Orthodoxy is just Catholicism lite
>It's the same shit except without a Pope

Wanna know how I know you're talking out of your ass?

>>2372128
>what is filioque

>>2372135

That's nice dear. Now, about the religion that by complete coincidence, pops up just as Islam is seriously pushing into Eastern Europe after being expelled from Spain, and caused Christians to spend more time fighting each other than they did fighting the invaders.

>>2372138
>Mary worship
check
>Idolatry
check
>Works-based salvation
check
>Crypto-paganism
check
>Creeds more important than scripture
check
>Praying to the dead
check

If it makes you feel any better, eastern Orthodoxy tend to be more spiritual than the Roman one.

But being spiritual doesn't mean shit if your foundation and beliefs are wrong. Satanists/Luciferians and New Agers are also extremely spiritual.

>>2372174

Except none of that is true, so...

>>2372170
Actually, Islam was created by the Vatican.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0otULYzms

Satan used Catholicism to stop the spread of the Gospel in Europe, and Islam to stop the spread of the Gospel in North-Africa and ME.

>>2372103
Protestants are free thinkers that built the modern world. Catholics and Orthodoxianites are brain dead cattle from 3rd world countries.

>>2372237
>Protestants go to the new world
>create the greatest nation on earth

>Catholics go to the new world
>create shitholes

Really makes you think.

>>2372203

You mean like how Protestant authorities are inviting Muslims into their churches and taking down crosses to set up Islamic prayer spaces so the poor little tykes don't get triggered?

>>2372103
Protestants' original goal was to reform the Catholic Church, not to found a completely new church. Blame the Catholics for excommunicating them and threatening them with death.

>>2372153
Some irrelevant shit on which the protestants agree with the Catholics anyway.

The differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism were much less pronounced back then too.

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>>2372174

>Mary worship

What are you smoking mate, nobody worships Mary, she is honored of course, there is nothing wrong with it, much better than bible thumping protestants and their love "foooo Jeesus" its absolutely disgusting equating Jesus to the entire holy trinity, protestants neglect both the father and the holy spirit.

>Idolatry

What icons?

>Crypto-paganism

This is true, but its much better than Protestant crypto-judaism and old testament worship.

Rest are more a less true.

>>2372103
actually this nigga tried to get into communion with Constantinopole
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Melanchthon
Was really crafty about it, using the most eastern sensibilities filled greek to translate everything.
But they had already written the Ausburg Confession and theologised on it, so the Ecumenical Patriarch was like "what is this heresy im reading?" when he got a copy, and dropped it, even though the germans were really trying to show they just removed medieval catholic addons and just wanted to get back to the pre-schism form of Christianity like the orthos had, notice me senpai.
Wasted opportunities.

Oh well, now that they've signed some ecumenical documents with caths, and so have the orthodox with caths and lutherans, maybe their conservative, high church side can still mend the schisms of christendom together.

>>2372251
Reading Weber for the first time. According to him Catholics live paycheck to paycheck while Protestants introduced increasing one's profits into peoples' lives.

Imagine if every American had the authority to decide what the US constitution means. Each person could do as he wished, saying that his actions fell under his own interpretation of "freedom of religion" or "freedom of association." What would come of this approach? Anarchy. Fortunately, the founding fathers created an institution called the Supreme Court that was entrusted with interpreting the Constitution. That way, through the court's decisions, a uniform legal code would be created that would treat all citizens equally. Just as a personal interpretation of the constitution would lead to chaos for the rule of law, relying solely on one's personal interpretation of the bible as a guide to Christian doctrine leads to chaos for the rule of faith.

If Americas founding fathers were wise enough to foresee the dangers of individuals engaging in private constitutional interpretation, then wouldn't the church's "founding fathers," or Christ and the apostles, see the danger in relegating Christian authority to private biblical interpretation? We read in Peter 1:20 that "no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation," and the author later warns his readers that some passages in the bible are "hard to understand, which the ignorant and the unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16)

Why do Christians claim that their religion is universally true when in fact it has historically been defined by massive schisms and interfaith fighting?

>>2372670
our only rival (in terms of numbers and influence) is islam, and they only got that way by copying some of what we do.

>>2372670

Do you think it follows that a universal truth doesn't exist just because some people disagree over what it is?

>>2372681
This is some lemming tier logic.

>>2372660
>Comparing the foundation of the world's oldest modern republic which exist precisely thanks to the emancipation of society from religious authority with your autistic skydaddy institution.
Reeeeeeeeeeee

>>2372683
I'm saying the evidence of Christian History doesn't suggest that Christian dogma has Universally True qualities.
If it was Universally True in a supernatural way, it wouldn't be subject to the exact same machinations that any mundane institution would. Instead the Christian church seems to operate identically to any other form of worldly authority, which means that it's not reasonable to assign it some special quality.

>>2372660
>>2372693
Also
>Referencing pseudepigraphical epistles.

>>2372709

There's nothing wrong with having an educated citizenry that can read the bible. That's not the problem. If you look at Matthew 18:18, it seems like Jesus is telling Peter and the apostles to teach what they believe to be true when he says "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven," furthermore, in 1 Tim. 6:20 you'll see that Jesus promised to “guard what has been entrusted." This means that the apostles are protected from teaching error by the holy spirit.

>>2372237
>(((modern world)))

>>2372762
So everything is safe because the thing that says it's safe says so. Ishygddt

>>2372124
>apostolic succession
>choosing a religion for "aesthetics" and "tradition" rather than to worship God
>hierarchical bullshit instead of equality under Christ
Disgusting

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East Syrian Christianity is probably the best option for people with a Protestant leaning.
Apostolic tradition
Allegations of heresy (just like Protestants).
Non use of iconography, statues, or crucifixes.

https://youtu.be/ux75-idIiLw

>>2372300
it's funny to me how protestants call him jesus and not Christ or the Christ

>>2373067
I don't even know what this means or what your misconception implies

>>2372978
>>2372978
>philosemetism confirmed
What do protacucks have against God and beauty? Also the singing is too sacred to Protestants who spit on the sacred while exalting the mundane.

>>2372269
>create dozens of splinter sects since everyones biblical interpretation is valid

Funny didn't Jesus say something about kingdoms divided failing?

>>2373184
no two people see the same rainbow

>>2373188
>Haha racism is totally the Christian way

Really convinces me proteshit

>>2373067
Jesus is more familiar, Christ sounds more grandiose.
The politically correct term these days should be Yeshua the AnnoinT.

>>2373109
>philosemetism confirmed
That may be true but I also feel that their worship resembles the early communal house style of worship more while other churches have gone on to become more pompous all but replacing the displays of Pagan worship.
As for art obviously any bird with half a brain could understand that there is nothing wrong with it rather it is with the silly notion of prayer to it.

>>2373220
Welp according to protestants your view is just as valid as mainstream Luthernism.

But not really since Luther was a hypocritical piece of shit who urged German princes to massacre peasants revolting against abuses and who happened to have a non Lutheran form of protestant Christianity.

>>2372103
Because Orthodox are also a false religion

>>2372130
The Reformation was about removing western innovation, not embracing eastern ones

>>2372129
It exists
Some eastern churches embraced the Reformation

>>2372300
>protestants neglect both the father and the holy spirit.
We do not

>>2372103
Do the Orthodox believe in justification by faith alone?

>>2372978
Protestants have the same Christology as Catholics and Orthodox, so they'll consider them heretics too

>>2373240
>Welp according to protestants your view is just as valid as mainstream Luthernism
No, that's completely wrong. Even when the mainstream was conservative and believing, we never considered each other equal, only sufficiently similar.

>>2372129
>Protestantism
>philosophy
Pick one.

>>2373277
I didn't mean they'd agree with Protestant doctrine just that it was more preferable. Also the Church of the East has in recent times apparently renounced any beliefs that could be considered Nestorian. Many Protestant sects are more dissimilar to Catholicism and Orthodoxy while the COE has more in common being apostolic. And many Protestant theologies are even more divergent than Nestorianism.

Catholics are not Christians.

Catholics practice Baal and Semiramis worship. It is the same old Babylonian religion sugar-coated with Christian clothes.

Roman pantheon traces itself back to the Greek pantheon, which traces itself back to the Egyptian, Assyrian and Babylonian mystery schools.

Ultimately it all began at the Tower of Babel, where paganism was born.

>>2373316
>the Church of the East has in recent times apparently renounced any beliefs that could be considered Nestorian
Which one, Assyrian or Ancient?

>>2373285
Nothing wrong with middle eastern culture as long as your not buddying up with the most treacherous scum.
https://youtu.be/oQDmvJtH0iw

>>2373322
>Ancient
another calendarist split

>>2373321
>Spewing psuedohistory.
Greeks are Indo-European and have cognate gods with Germanics and Indo-Iranians and might share some influences from the East.

Because the Orthodox church operated similarly to the Catholic church. Protestants didn't want Christianity to operate under a single authority.

>>2373416
All pagan cultures trace their beliefs back to Babylon.

Same pantheons, different names.

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William Penn was the first great Quaker prison reformer. In his ‘Great Experiment’ in Pennsylvania in the 1680s he abolished capital punishment for all crimes except murder. He also stated that ‘prisons shall be workhouses,’ that bail should be allowed for minor offences’, and ‘all prisons shall be free, as to fees, food and lodgings’. He provided for rehabilitation, as he stipulated that prisoners should be helped to learn a trade, so that they could make an honest living when they were released. These were radical reforms for his time, putting into practice his Quaker faith in equality and the possibility of nurturing ‘that of God’ in everyone.
http://www.quakersintheworld.org/quakers-in-action/43/Reformers-in-Criminal-Justice

>>2373443
Actually that is one reason Protestants didn't go east
There's no way Congregationalists would ever do it

>>2372237
>The protestants are the hard working rich meme

>>2373577
Stop /pol/ posting you autist,

>>2372128

This. Same shit, more popes. Two legs on the same doomed statue.

>>2372174

I'm a little skeptical about the orthodox cross. It also looks like a cross and an upside down cross fused together, like the catholic's. Not buying the whole "it's a foot rest" thing.

Doesn't really matter though. The "schism" is already a thing of the past. The two are one abomination again.

>>2373462

Glad someone else is up on their Hislop. Feels lonely sometimes.

>>2373615
No, it is just a racially-charged argument implies a racist audience for effect, which you don't have. There is nothing wrong with black people being Christian. The Ethiopians were among the first of our Christian brothers, and many of the desert fathers were black. A large amount of Protestants are also black.

>>2373462
Retarded. Several river valley civilizations arose independently.

>>2373641
Hislop was a pseudo-historian

>>2373738

>The message is utter devastation for us. Let's try to kill the messenger.

Yeah, no.

>>2373711

Some milkshakes are vanilla.

>>2373765
The message is a lie. Just pure bullshit, Hislop made all sorts of things up

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>>2373785

>>2372954
>not glorifying God through badass aesthetics
>no chain of command so anyone can believe whatever bullshit they want

It's an absolute kind of disgusting

>>2372174
>Mary worship
Retard alert

>>2372300
>a Catholic parish actually did this

FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUCK AEROHPGQOAERIHPIUERAHOPIGAKHUWGRH

^(&^YFSPHGKJSFLH

DELET THIS

THIS IS MAYBE THE MADDEST I'VE EVER BEEN OVER A 4CHAN POST

t. FSSP parishoner

>>2373802
>>not glorifying God through badass aesthetics
I am the LORD, that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another nor my praise to idols.
Isaiah 42:8
>>no chain of command so anyone can believe whatever bullshit they want
That's not how it works

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>>2373803

>>2372300
Yeah that's a catholic parish. St. Mary's Catholic Church in Seattle.

>>2373776
Name one.

>>2373803
Yes, worshiping Mary in any form is retarded. Glad to see you're catching up to speed.

>>2373266
Nope.
The only eastern reformed church is the ukrainean lutheran one, but that's a lutheran church that took some orthodox aesthetics, and maybe if you are talking about the orientals, an anglican and lutheran(i think) offshot of the malankarans, but that came from them poaching and protestantising groups of orientals, not from them embracing it.

>>2373487
didn't quakers also institute solitary confinment, because the criminal would have time alone with God, to reflect and repent of his crimes, but turned into a disaster?
That shit's inhumane.

>>2373924
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Lucaris

>>2373820
>>2373869
Catholics dont worship Mary, no matter how many times you fucking heretics will autistically screech it.

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>>2373956
>j-just venerating

>>2373956

Yes, the catholics don't worship Mary at all.

The Hebrew word for "worship" in Exodus 20:5 (the Ten Commandments) is "shachah" שָׁחָה. Take a look at what the Strong's Enhanced Lexicon says about the word.

"172 occurrences; AV translates as “worship” 99 times, “bow” 31 times, “bow down” 18 times, “obeisance” nine times, “reverence” five times, “fall down” three times, “themselves” twice, “stoop” once, “crouch” once, and translated miscellaneously three times. 1 to bow down. 1a (Qal) to bow down. 1b (Hiphil) to depress (fig). 1c (Hithpael). 1c1 to bow down, prostrate oneself. 1c1a before superior in homage. 1c1b before God in worship. 1c1c before false gods. 1c1d before angel."

>>2373958

>It's not idolatry when we do it!

kek

Brigid was a goddess in Ireland before Christianity invaded. Now, Saint Brigid is one of the patron saints of Ireland. Saint Brigid shares many of the goddess's attributes and her feast day was originally a pagan festival (Imbolc) marking the beginning of spring.

>catholics

>>2373985
say what you will about Catholicism, but lay off St. Brigid you soulless bastard

>>2374017

Go pray to her about it.

>>2373948
Lucaris was:
a)just one guy, and any attempts at reform that may have existed were utterly rejected by everyone;
b)there was, and still is, some debate if he really was the author of those writings.
And trust me, orthodox have a..."small" itch to show heretic at anything that doesnt smell right.

>>2372103
The Hussites tried to merge with the Orthodox church. Unfortunately, Constantinople fell before they accomplished anything of significance.

>>2374140
Source?
I know Huss considered "the Greek Church" a model for how a church should work(less corrupt than medieval catholicism), but i never heard they actually tried to get with them..
Might make sense. Huss is sometimes considered an EO saint in the "Cehoslovakian" Orthodox Church

>>2374052
>there was, and still is, some debate if he really was the author of those writings
There is no debate however that he was the author of those reforms. There is also a great deal of evidence that he did write them, such as how the confession was published in Geneva vs how it was published in Constantinople.

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>>2374173
I'm not very sure if I can recommend any English-language information on it, however, if you're Czech, you might find this useful:
https://is.cuni.cz/webapps/zzp/detail/18387/
http://www.orthodoxia.cz/dejiny/husite-v-konstantinopoli.htm

The latter is my primary source, it's a Czech Orthodox site and a text on the contact between Hussites and Constantinople.

Basically:
>Hussites defeat invading crusaders.
>They want to attent the Council of Florence, but also want the Eastern Church to attend
>Pope eventually doesn't want to grant what the Hussites want
>Eventually, Hussites send representatives led by Peter Payne, an Englishman, to Constantinople
>Eventually, 1452, Constantinople replies with a letter - they consider the >>2374052
less-radical as acceptable
>The Czechs reply, send new embassy, which fails to reach Constantinople in time, as it is conquered by the Turks meanwhile.

>>2374454
fascinating.
Source might be biased, but ill see if google translate works.

>>2374017
Christianity is Ireland was always a continuation of their Druid faith as opposed to something new entirely.

http://katehon.com/article/st-patrick-and-irish-logos

>>2374465
Might be, they're using the Czech historian Palacký as a source, he lived in the late 19th century and was fervently nationalistic, as was common among the Czech intellectuals of the time. They also use the Všeobecné dějiny církevní by prof. Josef Laixner - I cannot verify their source, since I don't have the book.

I hate to quote reddit, but here you go:
>... Rokycana [the first Hussite archbishop of Prague] instituted negotiations with the patriarch of Constantinople to seek union with the Eastern church. Since the Bohemian Church's doctrine and practice was close to that of Eastern Orthodoxy, the plan might have succeeded, but in 1453 Constantinople fell to the Turks, ending what hope lay in the East.

Atwood, The Theology of the Czech Brethren from Hus to Comenius, 97

>>2374465
I also find it particularly interesting due to the communion that was at the time planned between the Greeks and Catholics to counter the Turkish danger.
Also, Joan of Ark wrote a rather angry letter to the Hussites, threatening to destroy them.

>>2372693
>emancipation of society from worship
Yeah that;s why all the founding fathers were deists at their worst

>>2372103
Because they were as autistic as The Rebels about 'muh freedooms' which absolutist and organised russai was against

>>2372103
They are anti-social. They cannot maturely and intelligently communicate to solve their differences, so they "divorce."

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>>2374621
Quit shitquoting.
The founding fathers were careful to distinguish between the creator/nature's god and the Christian god.

>>2374726
Another case of the pot calling the kettle black.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies