Christianity in Japan

They managed to administer the chemo in time to save the patient.

>>2365618
Same reason Islam is currently banned in Japan, they didn't want to lose their culture. Unfortunately the muslims have no trade goods or scientific information to offer them.

>>2365618
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimabara_Rebellion

What the fuck was the Christian's problem?

>>2365618
Catholicism subverts the local powers, and looks like a creepy death cult from the outside.

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>>2365627
hmm well according to the very first sentence

>dissatisfied with overtaxation and suffering from the effects of famine, revolted against their lords

>>2365618
You have to understand Jesuit ideology and its effect on other cultures.
https://archive.org/stream/jesuitstheirmor00wyligoog/jesuitstheirmor00wyligoog_djvu.txt

>>2365623
When was Islam banned in Japan?

>>2365623
>>2365767
its a /pol/ meme its not banned

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>>2365618
>Be me, Satoshi
>Live in the mountains, rice farmer
>Comfy animism around, thank the river kami and the ancestors, occasionally the buddha, and generally chill
>Uppity "Kirishitan" starting shit again, babbling about their foreign kings, the saviour and other foreign bull
>The shogun says they are dangerous
>Welp, never liked those weirdos anyway
And everyone died, the end.

>>2365853
Aren't they still all put on watch lists?

I think if you're not willing to be martyred you're not a real christian.

>>2365618
Nothing. The world would be a much better place now if the Romans had been far more effciently vicious in dealing with assorted abrahamic scum far sooner.

>>2365867
Never heard about it before and after a quick search i doubt its true

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It's quite strange that Christianity didn't even make a dent in Japan but it's huge in Korea and growing extremely rapidly in China.

>>2365623

Shit, I had better go tell the Muslim guy with an amazing restaurant down the street from me that his religion is banned.

>>2365901
Honestly, Korea just seems batshit insane when it comes to cults and religion in general after all the weird shit that followed the recent scandals.

>>2365901
the japanese tend to be more skeptical about that weird foreign shit

Christians in Japan are to Jews in America

the majortity of the population isn't chrisitian but christians make up a very high percent of the critical gov't systems and mediac

>>2365901
the Japanese are actually smart

>>2365901
I think it's because a bunch of high ranking upper class people in Korea converted, so everyone else tries to follow suit to buy into the new hierarchy. In Japan the big families tend to be patrons of the traditional religions, and the ones that go for Christianity tend to be Roman Catholic who don't seem as bananas as the Protestant megachurch crowd.

>>2366014
doubt.png

>>2365901
>Christianity didn't even make a dent in Japan

Mate, there's been eight Christian Prime Ministers since the 20th century.

>>2366053
and how much of the overall population are christian?
how much has christianity influenced japanese culture?

>>2366058
More than making an animu about existentially damaged mecha pilots and a slice of life with Jesus kun and Buddha Kun?
Not at all I guess.

>>2366053
This anon is right but for the wrong reasons. Christianty did make a dent in japan but was stompd out early on.

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>>2365901
>and growing extremely rapidly in China.
Is it time for the New Taiping Heavenly Kingdom?

>>2365618
colonization

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>>2366058
how much of the overall population of early Christendom is still christian? Or does a regions influence disappear once its not dominate anymore

>>2366092
a fuck load, you dumbass
christianity dont matter shit in japan

>>2366095
Christiany doesn't matter shit in a lot of the middle east even though it grew there, it might not matter now but at one time there was a large christian presense in japan

>>2366134
you were trying to make a point that japan having christian prime ministers mattered.

>>2365618
Japanese people aren't cucks who will abandon their culture

>>2366071
>Christianty did make a dent in japan but was stompd out early on.
It was never actually stomped out though it continued to exist like a secret society.

>>2365618
They valued their own traditions more than foreign ones and took steps to nip any potential conflicts in the bud.

I just wish the Romans had done the same

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They even got a fucking Marian Apparition and it didn't work.

I think God just gave up on them and blighted them, and that's the deep root reason why the whole country is slowly dying.

>>2366588
Japan is only dying if you buy into the infinite growth maymay

Nobunaga was one of the few who were pretty chill about them. Shame he was betrayed. He could have enforced ethical dealings with foreigners.

>>2366592
No I mean they're not having babies at a replacement level, and immigration isn't compensating. They're withering and decaying.

>>2366588
That is the theory of Pastor Anderson

>>2366597
>No I mean they're not having babies at a replacement level
Because most of the current population was born to parents riding the biggest economic wave in Japanese history and then themselves had kids while riding the same wave. Japan's population growth was enabled by incredible economic conditions and now that those conditions have ceased the population is out of equilibrium with its economic conditions and is currently in the process of self-regulation. The old will die and their wealth will eventually trickle down to their fertile grandchildren or even great-grandchildren - of which there will still be tens of millions - who will then use said wealth to establish families.

>>2365867
>>2365623
>dumbass who fell for /pol/ memes

It was all part of my master plan to kill christians AND fascists

>>2365886
>Far more efficiently vicious.
Yes, because you can kill an ideology by killing people, and the Romans knew the exact location of every christian or jew in the empire was at any given time.

If anything, Roman persecution of Abrahamic religion helped propagate it by legitimizing it as a religion.

>>2365618
>Christian missionaries arrived with Francis Xavier and the Jesuits in the 1540s and briefly flourished, with over 100,000 converts, including many daimyo in Kyushu. It soon met resistance from the highest office holders of Japan. Emperor Ogimachi issued edicts to ban Catholicism in 1565 and 1568, but to little effect. Beginning in 1587 with imperial regent Toyotomi Hideyoshi's ban on Jesuit missionaries, Christianity was repressed as a threat to national unity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Japan

They basically saw Christianity as a threat to internal stability, and Christianity's own internal rivalry (Cath vs Prod, Jesuit vs other orders) made it too dangerous an outside threat that it wasn't worth dealing with.

>>2365901
I'd say that if it were not banned, Japan would be one of the largest Catholic countries in the world today. People were converting like crazy when the missionaries first arrived, even the local lords (diamyo), though they often converted for political/trade reasons than faith.

There is a book I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to read, one of the best books ever written, James Clavell's Shogun. It is a fictional story, but it is very heavily drawn from real life events and people from this period (MC is based on William Adams). One of the major themes of the book is the conflict of Christianity in Japan and it really helps you understand why Tokugawa found it so dangerous. Read it.

Aizawa seishisai, a japanese neo-confician of the mid-19th century, figured that Christianity was how the Europeans demoralized populations and made them ripe for conquest, at which point us meat eating barbarians would just move in. His writing became extremely influential to the Japanese nationalists involved in the fall of the Tokugawa shogunate.

He also thought that the best way to fight off European navies was turtle ships. Funny guy.

>>2366004
How ironic

>>2366152
Well their culture was pretty much infected by american capitalism and shit after ww2, resulting in what "japanese culture" looks like today (more anime/hentai and fucked up commercials than ukyio-e prints if you ask me)

>>2365623
>weeb+/pol/
The most cringeist combination

>>2365618
Christians were completely undermining their politics, it was entirely political. The Jesuits likewise just wanted Japanese gold.

Every nation they'd been to they began by converting the higher classes, then the lower, then causing a civil war and supporting one side until they controlled the nation.

Japan did right to throw them out.

>>2365901
>It's quite strange that Christianity didn't even make a dent in Japan
At one point like %20 of Japan was Christian and a lot of very important Daimyos, particularly the ones who controlled the vital trade with Asia.

That's when the Shogun said enough.

>>2366711
>>Yes, because you can kill an ideology by killing people,
You can actually, if you are dedicated enough.

>>and the Romans knew the exact location of every christian or jew in the empire was at any given time
You don't need to kill all of them, just most of them and the Roman empire was more then capable of doing that early on, the problem was that they largely didn't care that much until the empire had much more serious problems with threats on it's borders.

>>If anything, Roman persecution of Abrahamic religion helped propagate it by legitimizing it as a religion.
This sounds like bullshit, I find it rather dumb to say that a religion is legitimized by it being persecuted. Religions in the pre-modern era are legitimized by state tolerance/acceptance or even outright support of said faith.

>>2365618
since they worship a man on a stick we put them on a stick

>>2366920
Goddamn son

>>2365618
>that movie
Why did japanese feel the need to "convert" these missionaries instead of just deporting them? I thought they were only bothered by their own citizens

>>2365618
catholic HQ is located outside of japan so it can't be controled by japs nobles

>>2366937
I was thinking the same thing but then realized this movie doesn't make any sense

It mostly stemmed from politics frankly. The jesuits fucked up in focusing their conversion efforts on the local lords in Kyushu. That caused their religion to be enmeshed with their conflicts with the Shogunate and Christians came to be seen as a political threat to the Shogunate.
>>2365901
Idk about China but Korea is what they should have done in Japan, Post WW2 Korea has been dominated by a Christian elite that have furthered Christianization including persecuting the Muist animism indigenous to Korea(happened during the current presidents dads rule) although there's been some pushback the last two decades

Well firstly, do you like Islam coming into western countries? Its how the Japanese felt.

Longer answer is that its a foreign influence. And while Buddhism is a foreign religion it was distilled from a country (China who took it from India) they deemed superior. The Catholic faith also paid fealty to the church in Rome rather than the Emperor of Japan and much as the early christians suffered, could not regard the Emperor as divine.

Whereas Buddhism doesnt care and Shintoism is basically a cult to the Emperor.

>>2366937

To destroy peoples faith in the missionaries. To show them that these foreign faiths are inferior to the native one.

Basically

>>2365886
"Abrahamism" is a joke catogory. Catholicism IS a continuation of the religio Romano. It's is the faith of faith's.

>>2365901
korea is a cargo cult

>>2368014
>Catholicism
>Roman

>>2366721
I'm wary of the claims of various missionaries in getting tens of thousands of converts though.

>>2368525
One of the reasons for the ban in 1587 was that daimyos were apparently forcing their subjects to convert.

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>>2365901
>The Chinese are going for Protestantism
>The next superpower will be a country 1,3 billion guitar playing snake wranglers

Feelsbadman

How about Cathocucks or Orthodox get off their asses and start converting?

We really don't want China to go Protestant, Christian sure but not Protestant

>>2368808
You know, as Catholic as I may be, waiting 15 centuries doesn't seem like that far removed from something the divine may do. After all, it wasn't until 2000 years ago the church itself started forming, before then it was simply only a small tribe that was getting all their info about the one true God. Not that I believe Luther was correct or anything, just pointing out the absurdity of that image.

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>>2365866
>Live in the mountains, rice farmer
>mountains
>rice farmer

Get your shit together, Satoshi kun

>>2368808
To be fair it's not like they have a choice. The Chinese government controls the Churches tightly and when a Bible is all you have in an underground Church then that's what you use to guide your faith.

>>2366588
>julia_boin_pre_face_operation.png

>>2370076
>what are terraces
>what are valleys

>>2368808
>>The next superpower will be a country 1,3 billion guitar playing snake wranglers
It's very common for people to effortlessly transition from eating their food to playing with it.

>>2370125
>what are the Japanese rice farming techniques and traditions

While I suppose "mountain" covers an ample range of altitudes, they don't farm rice higher than 1200 m. They are not Incas or Tibetans, senapitaichi

>>2365762
underated post

>>2366020
>>2368808
>>2368885
Catholics aren't Christian

>>2365623
>Same reason Islam is currently banned in Japan

Imagine being this retarded?

>>2365901
I live in Korea and the 'Christianity' here is a mix bag it seems.
There are many sects of these crazy cult type people that try to badger you into joining group study sessions (see: Unification Church, Salvation Sect, Chondogyo).

If you really want to spend a weird afternoon, go and accept an invitation from them, it could range from having a free meal, to being in a shitty apartment with people being "possessed" and a group of 18 people chanting in tongue.

>>2370197
>to being in a shitty apartment with people being "possessed" and a group of 18 people chanting in tongue.
Sounds comfy

>>2366920
Careful Toho.
We might not be there when China goes after you. Now be a good boy and make me a nice car.

>Foreigners threaten to force an outside religious order into your country
Hmmm made me think

>>2365618
>Why would a homogeneous civilization want a disruptive factor taking root inside their borders
These are the same people that just went through a pretty massive heretical uprising of their own shitty religion, why would they want the same thing to happen again?

>>2370197
Christian Koreans are just as batshit here in the states.

>>2365623
Don't feel bad. /pol/ convinced me that the Mongols weren't included in the new Civ VI game because the development team was filled with a bunch of feminists who thought those steppe conquerors were "bad guys."

>>2365901
The Japanese like to mix their spiritual beliefs together in this weird mish-mash of religious ceremonies and customs.

>>2370514
/pol/ was fucking retarded, the mongols don't fucking work as a civ, the game focuses on early empires (because they built cities) and modern nation states (because they build modern cities) the mongols didn't fuckin' build.

>>2370197
>to being in a shitty apartment with people being "possessed" and a group of 18 people chanting in tongue.
HONOSHMALALDAGAGDINGDONG SATANUUU FUCKE YOUUUUUUUUUUU

Sounds right.

>>2366921
heh....christan on a cob

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>>2365618
>>2365623
It's just Japan pretending to be Chinese and banning every fucking non-East Asian foreigner because the Chinks did it. Just look at what they called Westerners: Namban. From the Chinese word "Nanman" meaning "Southern Barbarian." Because the first Europeans arived in Japan from the South.

Meanwhile, in Actual China...

>>2365618
The Tokugawa saw Christianity as a potentially hostile force because they couldn't control it, and it broken the Confucian social hierarchy by place another figure - God - above the emperor. So they banned it, tried to stamp it out, and exerted their power over well-established Buddhist sects to view and control the populace via the danka system.

>>2370558
because westerners as they know at the time is invaders from philippine

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When Jesus Christ was 21 years old, he came to Japan and pursued knowledge of divinity for 12 years. He went back to Judea at age 33 and engaged in his mission. However, at that time, people in Judea would not accept Christ's preaching. Instead, they arrested him and tried to crucify him on a cross. His younger brother, Isukiri casually took Christ's place and ended his life on the cross.

Christ, who escaped the crucifixion, went through the ups and downs of travel, and again came to Japan. He settled right here in what is now called Herai Village, and died at the age of 106.

On this holy ground, there is dedicated a burial mound on the right to deify Christ, and a grave on the left to deify Isukiri.

The above description was given in a testament by Jesus Christ.

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>>2368808
Breh, Chinese Chrisitianity would send Protestant Christians into apoplexy since it's heavily localized. Catholicism is a minority and Protestantism can't police doctrine for shit. We're talking Jesus breaking bread with the Jade Emperor and other Folk-Chinese elements creeping into Christianity.

My own Grandfather (Chinese Filipino) keeps statues of Jesus, Mary, and the 8 immortals, in one altar, and sees no problem about this and identifies himself as Christian despite keeping with holidays of both Christian and Folk Chinese origin.

I dunno why Christfags are thrilled about China becoming Christian. It only means they'll warp your religion into something else and it'll go the way of Buddhism in East Asia.

>>2370617
I have no problem with that, in fact the syncretic elements are one of the reasons I love East Asian religion. Chinese folk religion is based as fuck.

>>2366898
Dude, temporal suffering is almost a doctrine in most sects of Christianity. (Joel Osteen's a heretic, don't throw that in my face.)

Death ain't gonna freak folk out what already are prepared for death.

>>2370626
I know a lot of Christians here would. Koreans most especially since sticklers to Scripture.

They did the right thing. Christianity is a disgusting cult that destroys native cultures.

>>2365622
>the only city that had a large christian prescience was Nagasaki
>they get nuked

Someone else gave them a chemo.

>>2365921
There are koreans alive that remember the country being pre-industrial.
They literally went from digging in the mud to get water from the river to flood their gardens, to having 50 plastic surgeries and only communicating with other people through their phones.

>>2372114
ur mom kek

>>2366937
didn't they say in the movie that the missionaries requested to be tortured

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>>2370160
>Believing this Proddiecuck meme

You only think there's a problem because modern Japan is a slave to the white man. Luckily, Japan will be free eventually and they can kick out all the disgusting white people forever.