who is right?

>presenting an egoist who isn't me

moral realist in this situation

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>>2360852
>right

Both of them are helping people so who cares?

>>2360852
Neither and both. They volunteer because they believe it will improve others' perception of them. That is their desired reward. Neither will admit to such a "selfish" motivation; indeed they are almost certainly unaware that it exists. The first has subconsciously hidden it behind an artificial moral code, and the second deludes himself into believing that he enjoys the action, rather than the aforementioned reward.

>>2360852
Left

>>2360870
Pleb

>>2360852
>implying egoists can't be moral realists

the two are not mutually exclusive.

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>>2360878
>humans are wired to operate in groups of 30 to 100 individuals, typically composed of 1 to 3 extended families
>for 90% of human history, most of the humans other humans were interacting with were genetically related to them in some way
>being nice to people related to you is selected for genetically
>HURR HUMANS DON'T LIKE BEING NICE TO EACH OTHER BENEVOLENCE IS A SPOOK

>>2360893
This. Why not both?

>>2360852
Neither of them.

>>2360852
I volunteer (or take any other action) because, given the range of possible things I could be doing, it is the one I want to do.

>>2360878
Do you even know what an egoist is?

>>2360897
Genetics doesn't invalidate anything, genetics justifies egoism.
>because love makes me happy, I love because loving is natural to me, because it pleases me

>>2360878
I genuinely enjoy people and their feelings. Whats wrong with me then?

>>2360969
Nothing, the other guy is just being an edgelord. People genuinely enjoy watching TV, reading books and whatnot, seeing characters they like happy. This is purely selfish, there's no extrinsic reward to admitting to people you watch Naruto.

>>2360878
Wanting others to think better of you isn't the only possible motivation for helping another being without the expectation of any material reward.
People feel sorry for people and animals they see suffering all the time, and want to alleviate that suffering to bring an end to the distress it causes them as well as to feel good about themselves.

>>2360878
>They volunteer because they believe it will improve others' perception of them
Not exactly true, at least a few believe it will improve their own perceptions of themselves

>>2360998
>there's no extrinsic reward to admitting to people you watch Naruto.

meeting other people who watch Naruto so you have someone to talk about the show with???

>sperglords really think bringing up aspects of yourself is selfish

So much lack of ToM ITT.

>>2360852
Not mutually exclusive

>>2361193

This. Can't you enjoy something and feel good because it is the right thing to do? The idea of doing a good deed brings pleasure naturally, because that is how our brains work. Some people even do thr right thing when doing so would cause more problems than it would good feelings, so if it was some hedonistic idea of "this feels good, so I do it", wouldn't that go out the window when doing what is right would cause more pain than pleasure? For instance, people being tortured or burned for their beliefs, martyrs, etc. All these things can happen and people stuck with them. If it was all egoism why would it accept death which is the end of itself if it was only there to feel good?

>inb4 le happy medium maymay

I think here they are genuinely connected or putting the cart before the horse. Doing what we see as right feels good, we don't do such deeds just to feel good most of the time. There would be easier ways to sate the desire to feel pleasure.

>>2360852
The egoist because he isn't deluded.

>>2360852
this needs a greenpill edit

you're supposed to volunteer because it is simultaneously the right thing to do which causes you to be happy because you are helping others

if you are helping others and it's not making you happy then you're doing it wrong

>>2360852
c-can it be both

>>2360852
>i do good because it is good;
tautology.jpg

whatever works in pushing other people into serving our interest

>>2361253
well that's why i don't help others without convincing physical rewards in exchange

>>2360897
benevolence can't be a spook for those who have been selected like dogs to serve others, which means we can profit from their efforts without having to reward them in exchange

>>2360852
neither are right, the only one who is right is the one who doesn't volunteer and spends his time taking care of himself instead of other people since that's just objectively a better way to spend your time

>>2361906
however we need simpletons to serve us when in need (and also when not in need) and that's why it's convenient to pretend we admire them (since not all of them are selfless like dogs and many of them expect narcissistic gratification otherwise they wouldn't serve us)

>>2360878
>implying it's not the right thing to do because of the positive effects on society and your self image
If you want to make an ally, you must first prove your own worth.

>>2361165
>implying self-interest is negative
Value is subjective, so anything's value should be calculated with self-interest in mind.

>>2360852
There are those who give little of the much which they have - and they give it for recognition and their hidden desire makes their gifts unwholesome.

And there are those who have little and give it all.

These are the believers in life and the bounty of life, and their coffer is never empty.

There are those who give with joy, and that joy is their reward.

And there are those who give with pain, and that pain is their baptism.

And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue;

They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space.

Though the hands of such as these God speaks, and from behind their eyes He smiles upon the earth.

>>2362103
is that why some serve the homeless instead of the privileged classes which might actually reward them?

>>2360852
None. By feeding the weak; humanity's gene pool only gets shittier