where did it all go so wrong?

War on Drugs

>>2349484
about 1980 in the US it seems

>>2349486
When will this "war on drugs" is bad meme end?

>>2349493
>let's lock of masses of people for inconsequential amounts of marijuana

I don't even smoke weed, but the shit is stupid.

>>2349493
When they stop half assing it. 25 year sentences for any possession in any amount or bust.

>>2349493
The war on drugs has its uses, such as cracking down on heroin, cocaine, meth, etc. But it goes way too far with punishments on harmless drugs like marijuana. Also, the prison system in America isn't about rehabilitation for drug users/dealers, it's about punishment, which leads to a whole other mess of problems. Basically what I'm saying is, legalizing marijuana is the best thing we could do about overpopulation in prisons

We all know where this thread is heading so I'm going to get it out of the way now: friendly reminder it was black community leaders calling for draconian sentences for crack possession in the 80s.

>>2349513

Ok but we all know it was the government who introduced crack into black communities.

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>land of the "free"
>home of the "brave"
OH SAYYY, CAN YOUUU SEEE
>gets shot in walmart

>>2349510
>harmless drugs like marijuana
Go back to Vice

>>2349517
This is objectively conspiracy theory though. It's an internet truism: it's repeated everywhere but there's no legitimate evidence

>>2349522
>MUH BRAIN CELLS
Give me a fucking break, it's no worse than alcohol.

>>2349527
unlike alochol, marijuana is a foreign substance from a foreign culture and its influence directly undermines the culture of the nation

>>2349532
What the fuck is a "foreign substance" and how does it undermine the culture of a nation?

>>2349527

alcohol harms literally every system in your body, while marijuana doesn't. not to mention alcohol has crazy amounts of empty calories.

>>2349535
white bois don't have the genes to tolerate marihuana and cocaine the same way injuns can't tolerate alcohol

>>2349524
that belief isn't just widespread on the internet. people irl believe it just like it's common to belief jfk wasn't killed by a lone gunman

>>2349532
Alcoholic drinks were first made by the Babylonians. Wouldn't that make it a 'foreign substance'? Same with tobacco, which was first used by the American Indians.

>>2349535
>The plant is indigenous to central Asia and the Indian subcontinent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis

at this point, anyone that thinks alcohol is better than weed is just delusional, you are just more accustomed to seeing drunkards, so you think they are better than stoners

>>2349553
So the consumption/presence/use (within our borders?) of a substance that originates outside of North America undermines the culture of the U.S.?

I just want to make sure I understand your argument.

>>2349562

by his logic, you could say the presence of non-injun cultures is what is actually undermining north american culture

>>2349544

1/10

troll harder nigger

>>2349560
The difference being an angry drunk beats anyone that happens to be around him, whereas a paranoid stoner will just lock themselves in their room

>>2349578
You really showed that obvious black supremacist shill.

>>2349585
Literally nobody gets violent when their drunk except for babbys first trip to the bar or violent assholes who are violent anyway, meanwhile every regular smoker goes on to become a paranoid mess eventually.

>>2349606
>Literally nobody

except the tens of thousands of domestic abuse cases every year. let's not even mention drunk driving.

>>2349606
>meanwhile every regular smoker goes on to become a paranoid mess eventually.

And what happens to every regular drinker? Cardiovascular disease?

>>2349585
>>2349606
Do you guys have credible research to back up these claims?

>>2349618

No they don't and they don't need to. You people and your facts sheesh

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>>2349484
While I agree we are incarcerating far too many people, for far too many stupid reasons... And few things seem to be more fundamental a violation of adult human freedom than one human dictating to another as to what he or she can and cannot ingest...

...The problem that comes in, is the correlation between that chart, and this chart.

>>2349606

anecdotal as fuck, thats literally just your opinion, a proponent of marijuana could make the same exact argument for his drug

also, a person does not need to feel violent impulses to harm others, the majority of alcohol casualties are caused by irresponsible behaviour like drunk driving

>>2349484
Privatization of prison.

>>2349637

So much this

>>2349484
NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA IM ONE HUNDRED PERCENT NIGGA

>>2349549
>American Indians

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>>2349510
>>2349493
There's several problems with drug laws...

For starters, you're prosecuting a crime before it's actually happened. Just because someone is using drugs, does not necessarily mean they are causing any harm to anyone but themselves. You are presupposing harm to others is going to happen, and prosecuting them before they've actually caused any.

Now, I don't think one should get off any easier, for committing an actual crime, simply because on is on drugs. If anything, it should be an aggravating circumstance, as if you are an addict, it seems you are more likely to repeat it. But prosecuting someone for nearly using or possessing drugs, is essentially jailing them on the basis they *might* cause a crime... And anyone might cause a crime at any time, you can justify incarcerating anyone on that basis.

More importantly, you create a black market, with no access to the society's law enforcement or courts. Therefore, it is left to the participants of this black market to police themselves, and inevitably, eventually, violent mafias are created to do so. The violence this generates extends to people who do not use drugs. So suddenly, you've taken a personal choice for personal harm, and turned it into a harm that affects everyone, user or not.

And the history of prohibition, coupled with the state of some unstable nations, should tell you that these mafias can extend in such power and scope they can threaten to overtake the legitimate government itself. Without such drug laws, these mafias have no financial backing or motivation.

Additionally, when you start drug testing on entry level jobs, where mild inebriation is no real detriment, addicts have no way to make money to feed their habit - except through crime. They have no way to be producers in the society, and can only be a criminal element, whereas otherwise they might have been simply basic functional citizens.

Or to put the TL;DR to memetoon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUXLqNHCaI

>>2349626
First chart: early 80s
You're chart: mid 90s

No correlation

Privitization of US prisons making them for-profit. Now states have prison quotas they have to meet and are maxing out sentences on nonviolent crimes.

>>2349707
Bleh, so many typos, wish I could edit sometimes...

>Additionally, when you start drug testing on entry level jobs, where mild inebriation is no real detriment, addicts have no way to make money to feed their habit - except through crime.

this always bothered me inmensely, society says they want to help these people get out of the hole but the actual actions they take imply they just want to get rid of them

>>2349735
Society doesn't want to promote drugs. If people want to drug themselves into poverty, its their own choice.

>>2349812

What does smoking marijuana in people's free time have to do with job performance at walmart?

>>2349522
Epic meme.

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>>2349812

helping people get out of drugs is promoting drugs?, what kind of retarded logic is that?

>>2349626
I'll be honest. In my opinion violent video games actually do cause less violent crime. People just let out their frustrations on pixels.

>>2349828
>walmart
>marijuana
>job performance
Do you understand what you're actually typing?

I'll spell it out for you. Walmart is at the lowest end of job. Even that requires bit of attention span to either help customers, stock inventories, both, etc.

>>2349845
There's helping people get of drugs and then there's promoting drug habits at work.

>>2349881
>I'll spell it out for you. Walmart is at the lowest end of job. Even that requires bit of attention span to either help customers, stock inventories, both, etc.


Again, what does that have to do with getting high in your free time? You think marijuana keeps you high for days?

>>2349484
Why don't you adjust that graph for population growth pal

let's get away from war on drugs angle. What else could impact this?

Three strikes law? began being enacted in many states in the early 90s then by federal gov in 95.

Mandatory minimums?

Digital crimes did not exist before mid late 90s.

What else could contribute to rise in 80s?

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COLUMBUS, Ohio -- About 10,000 people in the United States may be wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year, a new study suggests.

The results are based on a survey of 188 judges, prosecuting attorneys, public defenders, sheriffs and police chiefs in Ohio and 41 state attorneys general.

The study also found that the most important factor leading to wrongful conviction is eyewitness misidentification.

These findings are included in the new book Convicted But Innocent: Wrongful Conviction and Public Policy (Sage Publications, 1996). The book was written by C. Ronald Huff, director of the Criminal Justice Research Center and the School of Public Policy and Management at Ohio State University; Arye Rattner, professor of sociology at the University of Haifa, Israel; and the late Edward Sagarin, who was a professor of sociology at City College and City University of New York.
https://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm

rockefeller laws

>>2349901
>let's get away from war on drugs angle
>What else could contribute to rise in 80s

It all comes back to drugs.

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>>2349895
here you go

>>2349892
Because the alternative is to test employees at work directly and monitor their health at all times on work.

This is not only a hassle for both parties, but it will involve many different agencies, government regulations, law changes, etc. It will also be very expensive.

If you want to smoke marijuana all the time, then just go do drugs on street.

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The staggering cost of R&D and drug approvals

Lost in the discussion is the truly staggering cost of what it takes to develop a drug from start to finish. For context, it's important to understand that taking a drug from the discovery stage to pharmacy shelves is extremely rare. Medscape pegs the ratio of researched drugs to eventually approved therapies at between 5,000-to-1 and 10,000-to-1. However, if a drug manages to gain FDA approval, the cumulative direct and indirect expenses are huge.

How much you do you think it costs to develop a drug and see it to market approval? One hundred million? Five hundred million? One billion? Even if we added these figures together, we wouldn't even be in the ballpark according to a 2014 study released by the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/general/2016/04/30/the-cost-of-developing-an-fda-approved-drug-is-tru.aspx?client=safari

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>>2349901
Nope, it's drugs.

Granted, these are the federal prison numbers, but I'm sure the state numbers are even more severely weighted towards that conclusion.

War on drugs
And, related, for privatized prisons + corrupt lawmakers

>>2349944
>Because the alternative is to test employees at work directly

You mean like monitoring their performance and talking to employees? I mean, it's like the same with alcohol. You can't stop an employee from coming in drunk as shit but you can clearly see they're fucked up and get rid of them.

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The film implies that the drug and vitamin regime promoted by Woodroof was safer and more effective than the drugs being issued in hospitals and tested by the FDA at the time, but this has been criticized by numerous observers. Daniel D'Addario, in an article in Salon, suggests that "the film's take is perilously close to endorsing pseudoscience."[103]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Buyers_Club#

>>2349944
And that mentality is why kids are breaking into houses and stripping out all the copper wiring to melt down and sell to a recycler.

That's some seriously hard labor for what amounts to considerably less than minimum wage.

I don't care if the kid at Taco Bell 420's errayday, just so long as he doesn't get the munchies and eat my doritos.

It basically makes anyone who can't beat their addiction in short order a lifelong criminal. (Even if you do beat your addiction later, that lack of employment history in your youth leaves you all but unemployable.)

Wasn't long ago I had my damn catalytic converter stolen off my car - while I was parked in a very good neighbor, nonetheless - proving that transportation means the crime this generates isn't entirely restricted to the ghetto. Seriously, no one would do this sorta crap if Micky D's wasn't drug testing.

>>2349955
Actually you can stop an employee from coming in as drunk.

By firing them.

When you applied for the job, you did it as a rational person with sound judgment. This is what the employer is looking for at work.

When you compromise your sound judgment and rationality with drugs, it not only affects yourself but also the customers, the employers, your co-workers and the company.

If you work at a bar then maybe you can get by with drinking at work and smoking weed. As the customers, company, co-workers all have certain expectations and therefore caution is well placed. Otherwise, at a store where families, kids, people of all types work and buy things, druggies are a possible source of menace.

>>2349980
Druggies have lower inhibitions and thus make rash and ill-informed/mannered decisions.

This is why I never trust food from third parties.

>>2349984
>Actually you can stop an employee from coming in as drunk. By firing them.

Same thing for marijuana.

>When you compromise your sound judgment and rationality with drugs, it not only affects yourself but also the customers, the employers, your co-workers and the company.


Have you ever even tried marijuana? You really think getting high in your off time affects you once you come down? This is only the case for heavy uses, just like heavy users of alcohol.

>>2349984
Not him, but I don't what argument you've made there to separate drugs from alcohol.

It wasn't long ago I was witness to a black manager and Subway firing a white kid for failing to pass his drug test, because he was smoking weed.

Said manager was being extremely apologetic towards the poor kid, and even said, "You're the best worker I have, so this is really sad."

Again, it's same with the potential for crime - there's plenty of high functioning addicts out there. If you're going to prevent them from working, or imprison them, on the basis they *might* fuck up, that's just wrong. You're creating crime where is none, and forcing folks to a life of crime to boot.

Treat it like alcohol - where everything is fine until it turns out you can't hold your damned liquor. We ended prohibition for a reason.

>>2350015
Its not the off-site marijuana "hobby" that affects your work, its the on-work.

If you do it off-work, you do it on-work. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar. This is guaranteed across time.

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>>2350020
>x will cause y, so we need to prevent x
>why not just crack down on y directly and avoid any collateral damage or wasted resources
>X DETECTED GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE YOU HARM THE CHILDREN

Authoritarian busybodies like this are the cancer of human civilization

>>2350020
>If you do it off-work, you do it on-work. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar. This is guaranteed across time.

Evidence? I did 6 years in the Navy, work and am a full time student. Once all of my responsibilities are done I may get high on the weekends.

>>2349998
Well if you're net letting anyone handle your food, that's neither here nor there. But we let people who drink a beer on the weekend be employed, why not someone who does the same with a joint? How much could this possibly affect their performance in a job where you literally hire retards to fill positions?

>>2349948
Minimum sentences can also play a large role. If you a minimum of 25 years for low level drug holding it means you are not only taking more people than before, but keeping people for far longer than before.

>>2350049
Well yeah, but that's mostly minimum sentences - for drugs. You know, the offense that made minimum sentences a thing to begin with?

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$340 million
Children 5 (Theodora, Alexandra, Marlon, Tara, Angela) More StatsView More.
About Keith Richards. English musician and singer-songwriter Keith Richards has an estimated net worth of $340 million. He is best recognized as one of the members of Rolling Stones, an English rock band.
Keith Richards Net Worth - TheRichest
www.therichest.com › celeb › musician

>>2350046
>How much could this possibly affect their performance in a job where you literally hire retards to fill positions?
This, if the mentally retarded can do the job, you don't drug test for it.

>>2350019
Its too late when you can't hold your liquor.

We ended prohibition because moral reasons. The same reason we started prohibition for moral reasons. The result of prohibition is millions of lives saved.

>>2350037
Its not authoritarian to fire a druggie. You do work at employer's request. If you fail to meet minimum standards, you're fired. Its no different from raping a women a work or killing someone or stealing or fighting or lying, etc.

>>2350038
Either you're a liar or you're the statistical anomaly. I have plenty of experiences myself and vast majority have impaired judgment when on drugs.

>>2350063

You do realize that alcohol is a drug, right?

>>2350077
Yes and?

Time is on your side
No more need in runnin'
No more need to hide
No more need to cry

Time is on my side, yes it is.
Time is on my side, yes it is.
Now you all were saying that you want to be free
But you'll come runnin' back (I said you would baby),
You'll come runnin' back (like I told you so many times before),
You'll come runnin' back to me.

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

>>2350083

And yet people who drink are employed no problem.

>>2350063
>The result of prohibition is millions of lives saved.
Dude, prohibition propelled the mafia which killed thousands individuals who weren't even drinking, and said crooks got so rich and took so many positions in local and even federal government that nearly took over the nation!


>Its no different from raping a women a work or killing someone
Yes, smoking a joint on the weekend is literally the equivalent of rape and murder.

If something actually affects your job performance negatively enough, fine, fire them. But in this country, innocent into proven guilty. I mean doctors (which we usually don't test) and police, sure... But in a job where your qualifications are so low that you're hiring people with down syndrome? No, all you're doing is generating crime.

>>2350090
Only at bars.

>>2350092
We're not talking about drinking or smoking weed on the fucking job here. Nearly everyone in this nation drinks from time to time - you're almost considered a social pariah or a religious nut if you don't. Yet the vast majority of those people remain employed.

Hell, on a lot jobs you have meeting at the fucking bar.

>>2350063
or you're a liar or a stastitical anomaly. what reason do I have to trust your words over his?

>>2349484
Crack cocaine, nigguh!

>>2350091
Prohibition didn't create the mafia. Mafia were from Italy. Mussolini was cracking down on mafia hard during his tenure. This forced the mafia to migrate to US. They became rich due to them already being power taking over areas without organized crime.

Its a childish to assume prohibition gave birth to mafia or their riches.

Also it seems you have selective reading regarding my comments. It was to show the violation of contractual agreements between employer and employee.

>>2350102
People did drink on job before the advent of anti-drinking campaigns.

There is a huge problem of society drinking itself to death and yet not making it illegal. Powerful corporations, social standings, etc all welcome alcohol. There's strict social rules regarding drinking on work and offwork. Marijuana hasn't entered the fray yet except to the young and hippie generation. Thus these people don't have the rigid social structure needed to control themselves.

I view neither positively. Two wrongs don't make a right.

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On the late evening of June 9, 1980, during the making of the film Bustin' Loose, after days of freebasing cocaine, Pryor poured 151-proof rum all over himself and lit himself on fire. While ablaze, he ran down Parthenia Street from his Los Angeles, California home, until being subdued by police. He was taken to a hospital, where he was treated for second and third degree burns covering more than half of his body. Pryor spent six weeks in recovery at the Grossman Burn Center at Sherman Oaks Hospital. His daughter, Rain, stated that the incident happened as a result of a bout of drug-induced psychosis;[26] later, however, in an on-camera interview, Pryor said: "I tried to commit suicide. Next question."[27]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pryor#Freebase_cocaine_incident

Because I'm bad, I'm bad come on
You know I'm bad, I'm bad come on, you know
You know I'm bad, I'm bad come on, you know
And the whole world has to
Answer right now
Just to tell you once again
Who's bad

>>2349606
You are half-right, which is politically the best kind but diametrically the worst.

>>2350123
The mafia wasn't a power in the US until Prohibition became its life blood. If wasn't the mafia, it would have been some other criminal organization. Creating massively profitable black markets is a formula for corruption and rampant crime.

>There's strict social rules regarding drinking on work and offwork. Marijuana hasn't entered the fray yet
And I don't think pot being legal is going to somehow make it okay to smoke it at fucking work - given that you can't drink or smoke cigarettes on the job either. Rather well demonstrated by the fact that it doesn't happen where is legal.

But, because it's legal and not tested for, causal alcohol use doesn't generate organized crime, nor force people into a life of crime by the fact that they are unemployable because they had a beer on Saturday.

Making legal reduces the harm, period. Making it illegal extends that harm from the user and those immediately affected by him - to the entire population.

Social pressures and harm reduction programs are more than sufficient to reduce drug use, as we've seen time and again - you don't need to make them illegal and spiral into existence all this extra crime and violence, all while making the drugs themselves stronger and more destructive.

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Well they said you was high-classed
Well, that was just a lie
Yeah they said you was high-classed
Well, that was just a lie
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine

>>2349524
>>2349524
>>2349524
Dark Alliance by Gary Webb

>>2349486
the percentage of prisoners in for drug related crimes have only gone up by 10% since 1974.

>>2349484
Privately owned for profit prisons

A recent variant of anarchistic theory, which is befuddling some of the younger advocates of freedom, is a weird absurdity called “competing governments.” Accepting the basic premise of the modern statists—who see no difference between the functions of government and the functions of industry, between force and production, and who advocate government ownership of business—the proponents of “competing governments” take the other side of the same coin and declare that since competition is so beneficial to business, it should also be applied to government. Instead of a single, monopolistic government, they declare, there should be a number of different governments in the same geographical area, competing for the allegiance of individual citizens, with every citizen free to “shop” and to patronize whatever government he chooses.

Remember that forcible restraint of men is the only service a government has to offer. Ask yourself what a competition in forcible restraint would have to mean.

One cannot call this theory a contradiction in terms, since it is obviously devoid of any understanding of the terms “competition” and “government.” Nor can one call it a floating abstraction, since it is devoid of any contact with or reference to reality and cannot be concretized at all, not even roughly or approximately. One illustration will be sufficient: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of Government A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of Government B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of Government A. What happens then? You take it from there.

The Virtue of Selfishness “The Nature of Government,”
The Virtue of Selfishness, 112

>>2349948
>there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense
the incarceration rate per 100,000 people would drop from 725 to 625 if all drug offenders were released.
There's been a huge increase of all kind of crime in the past fifty years, blaming it on drugs is not going to solve the problem.

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>>2350218
30% fed 60% state increase over the 70's.
120%/110% increase over the 80's.
and another 110%/60% increase over the 90's.
and a yet another 45%/15% increase in the 2000's (as various states started to legalize.)

https://www.nap.edu/read/18613/chapter/18#423

So if you mean around a 250%+10% increase, then yeah, sure.

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He was a lifelong abolitionist, delivering lectures that attacked the Fugitive Slave Law while praising the writings of Wendell Phillips and defending the abolitionist John Brown. Thoreau's philosophy of civil disobedience later influenced the political thoughts and actions of such notable figures as Leo Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr.

Thoreau is sometimes referred to as an anarchist.[4][5] Though "Civil Disobedience" seems to call for improving rather than abolishing government—"I ask for, not at once no government, but at once a better government"[6]—the direction of this improvement points toward anarchism: "'That government is best which governs not at all;' and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."[6]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau

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>>2350218

Hm

>>2350262
>the incarceration rate per 100,000 people would drop from 725 to 625 if all drug offenders were released.

From the same article you quoting:
>According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses.
Just because drugs aren't your most serious offense, doesn't mean your offense isn't drug related, nor that said offense wasn't partly due to the fact you had to fund your illegal habit, illegally, or were involved in the crime surrounding that illegality.

>There's been a huge increase of all kind of crime in the past fifty years
Wuuuuuuuuuuuutt. Not in the fucking USA - quite the opposite, the crime rate has been going nowhere but down for fifty years - which is usually the main justification used for the drug laws.

>>2350272
I think you misunderstood, I was talking about the total percentage of prisoners, not how they have numerically increased

New Living Translation
It's not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart."

>>2350291
That's what that chart and citation link shows - percentage of prisoners in for drug offenses. It's far more than doubled.

>>2349532
Do you have a learning disability? You can't be this retarded

>>2349549
Babylonians are white

>>2350287
>Just because drugs aren't your most serious offense, doesn't mean your offense isn't drug related
no, but it means they're committing crimes that are more serious
>nor that said offense wasn't partly due to the fact you had to fund your illegal habit, illegally, or were involved in the crime surrounding that illegality.
That's a non-point, you're trying to justify them committing a crime.

New Living Translation
"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

>>2350317
Because drugs being illegal, generates additional, more serious, crimes.

People don't often kill over cigarettes. There isn't a giant organized crime ring chopping people's heads off over alcohol. And unlike casual pot smokers, folks who drink a beer or two on the weekend can get a damn job.

>>2349484
less whites if you are honest to yourself

>>2349576
kek

Thus we have arrived at the following conclusions: Attempts at Communism have hitherto failed because:

[1] They were based on an impetus of a religious character instead of considering a community simply as a means of economic consumption and production,
[2] They isolated themselves from society,
[3] They were imbued with an authoritarian spirit,
[41 They were isolated instead of federated,
[5] They required of their members so much labour as to leave them no leisure time, and
[6] They were modelled on the form of the patriarchal family instead of having for an aim the fullest possible emancipation of the individual.

Communism, being an eminently economic institution, does not in any way prejudice the amount of liberty guaranteed to the individual, the initiator, the rebel against crystallising customs. It may be authoritarian, which necessarily leads to the death of the community, and it may be libertarian, which in the twelfth century even under the partial communism of the young cities of that age, led to the creation of a young civilisation full of vigour, a new springtide of Europe.

The only durable form of Communism, however, is one under which, seeing the close contact between fellow men it brings about, every effort would be made to extend the liberty of the individual in all directions.

Under such conditions, under the influence of this idea, the liberty of the individual, increased already by the amount of leisure secured to him, will be curtailed in no other way than occurs today by municipal gas, the house to house delivery of food by great stores, modern hotels, or by the fact that during working hours we work side by side with thousands of fellow labourers.

With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible. Without it, it necessarily becomes slavery and cannot exist.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/kropotkin/comanar.html

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Friendly reminder that ALL drugs need to be fully legalized for recreational and medicinal uses, and yes that includes heroine and krokodil. If there is supply there will be demand, and if they state suppresses legal supply then it will simply go underground.

Drugs need to be commodified, the state has no business interfering in people's personal affairs nor should it interfere in the economy that way either.

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>>2350332
Similarly, cigarettes and alcohol don't result in pic related.

>>2350350
You are in the wrong thread.

>>2350332
The majority of people aren't in prison aren't in jail for pot though.
Crack/powder cocaine, meth and heroine make up about 65% of drug related offenses.
I totally agree that people shouldn't be imprisoned for smoking pot, I don't think that's particularly bad. I don't think crack or meth should legalized, and those have more impact on prisoners with drug related charges

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A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail. Progress is the realisation of Utopias.

Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man Under Socialism

>>2350358
>The majority of people aren't in prison aren't in jail for pot though.
A good chunk of them are...

And while other illegal drugs may be more harmful to the individual and those connected to them, making even those illegal causes the same problems for non-users. You extend a harm that would otherwise be restricted to the users and few bystanders, to the entire society, by generating a crime driven black market, and making it near impossible for even those young addicts who do recover to find employment, forcing them to live a life of crime, even if they do drop their drug habit, barring welfare.

And, personally, I find it abhorrent that an adult's choice in personal consumption is restricted by law, in a nation with all these other, largely more arbitrary, human rights are cherished. (And hell, so did the nation, up until first quarter of the last century, if you look into the history of how these laws came to be.)

>>2350312
>WE WUZ BABYLONS N SHIET

>>2350402
Liberty is an amazing thing, and I believe people should obviously have freedoms. But should we allow people to legally use substances like crack and heroine? Can they be used without causing addiction? Can people use them responsibly? I don't know.

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Stewart: Isn’t it all the same once you realize that your idealism — you can use it to further your aims, [if] you realize that nothing is nirvana, nothing is perfect?

Hitchens: Oscar Wilde used to say that a map of the world that doesn’t include Utopia isn’t worth looking at. I used to think that was a beautiful statement. I don’t think that at all anymore. I tell you, to be honest, the most idealistic and brave and committed and intelligent young people that I know have joined the armed forces. And they are now guarding us while we sleep in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. … I never would have expected that would be what I would say about the students I have to teach.

>>2349484
Too much shit is illegal when it should just be regulated, lightly.

If you're not willing to kill someone over it then the law should be mute about it.

>>2349532
Autism

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Anonymous Christian is the controversial notion introduced by the Jesuit theologian Karl Rahner (1904–1984) that declares that people who have never heard the Christian Gospel might be saved through Christ. Non-Christians could have "in [their] basic orientation and fundamental decision," Rahner wrote, "accepted the salvific grace of God, through Christ, although [they] may never have heard of the Christian revelation."[1]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_Christian

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>"Marijuana is probably the most dangerous drug in America today."

What did he mean by this?

(Not memeing; I'd really like to know what led to this conclusion.)

>>2349735
No one wants a junkie working for them, sorry.

>>2350555
>a lot of people use Marijuana
>Marijuana is illegal
>if we aggressively enforce the law, we can turn a lot of darkies and hippies into felons
>felons can't vote

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Should alcohol be sold to Native Americans?

>>2350570
I said no memes.

>>2350476
Addiction is not really a problem if the substance can be purchased on the open market in a known quantity. Plenty of people live their life addicted to cigarettes and booze and still function.

People will either self regulate or die, either outcome is fine. The problem is not the substance its people, like always.

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>>2350546
>Legion, the demon of Gadarenes, appears frequently as a character in popular culture. The Christian New Testament gospels of Mark and Luke describe an incident in which Jesus meets a man, or men, possessed by demons who, when asked what their name is, respond: "My name is Legion, for we are many."

Legion in popular culture - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_in_popular_culture

>>2350574
>implying this isn't actually why he did it
>implying the war on drugs isn't a deliberate effort to stifle the black vote

In 1930 Blacks were 9.7% of the population.

Now they are 14.4%.

This change happened during a period where the US had literally the largest immigration wave in it's history. According to Pew, the US added almost 100 million extra people since 1970 due to immigration (immigrants plus their kids).

The Black population still grew rapidly as a share of America over this period. It's weird, normally birth rates fall with standards of living. Blacks on welfare are still richer than Eastern Euros, but breed like Indians.

Anyhow, Blacks commit way more crime. 54% of murders when they make up an 1/8th of the population.

Black population explodes. Crime explodes. Prison population explodes.

Case closed.

>>2349500
Anybody stupid enough to get caught with weed deserves to be in prison strictly from a eugenics perspective.

>>2350599

>implying most people in prison, including most Blacks aren't there for violent crime not drugs.

>>2349560
I honestly prefer being drunk to being stoned, bet that just boils your bottom weedboy.

>>2350611
Nigger where are you getting your statistics?

"Hurr land of the free, Euros are so much better about prison"

Give it 20 years. When 20-60% of your 15-25 yearolds are Muslims and Africans let's see how much your prison population grows.

>>2350629

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

http://blackdemographics.com/

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/

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>>2350647
So black people went from being 11.6% of the population in 1900 to 12.6% in 2010, and this explains a tripling of incarceration rates, despite crime rates dropping by 50% in between 1990 and 2010.

>makes sense

>>2349959
I thought it was more arguing that when there's a plague the people dying don't really care if the drugs have been properly tested, they just want something.

>>2350659

With segregation you don't need to waste money locking them up.

You think the knock out game, flash mob race riots, or quintuple murder rape home invasions happened on the reg in 1900?

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Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315, after which the population growth dropped markedly, doubling only every 145 days. The last surviving birth was on day 600, bringing the total population to a mere 2200 mice, even though the experiment setup allowed for as many as 3840 mice in terms of nesting space. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, increase in homosexual behavior, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against.[2] After day 600, the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed "the beautiful ones." Breeding never resumed and behavior patterns were permanently changed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun#

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>>2350697
>Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits.

Thank you for reminding me I am one of the useless rats. Although I would never consider myself beautiful.

>>2349484

A meaningful graph, as opposed to that meaningless one, would show incarceration as a percentage of population.

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A fake Jamaican took every last dime with that scam
It was worth it just to learn some sleight of hand
Bad news comes, don't you worry even when it lands
Good news will work it way to all them plans
We both got fired on, exactly, the same day
Well, we'll float on, good news is on the way

>>2350262

Wow look at those skyrocketing crime rates

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1993-2012.xls

>>2349484
When large corporations learned that they could save money by letting prisoners labor for them.

>>2350737
YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY WORDS CAN'T BRING YOU DOWN

>>2350476
While it's technically illegal to commit suicide, we don't put people in prison for it - we try to help them.

There are functioning heroin and crack users, even if it isn't optimal, and in the latter group, rather rare - but even if they weren't, we don't generally put people in prison for ingesting dangerous substances - instead we label them.

I could see jailing someone for attempting to sell the stuff to a minor, or the unknowing, but we already do that for alcohol and cigarettes, among other legal substances.

>>2350611
Except crime is down and blacks aren't even the fastest growing ethnic group.

>>2350901
I'm not sure how much help you can give to somebody who committed suicide...

>>2350901
>>2350914
>While it's technically illegal to commit suicide, we don't put people in prison for it - we try to help them.
*to try to commit suicide

I suppose putting dead people in prison would be even sillier than putting drug users in there.

>>2350916
>I suppose putting dead people in prison would be even sillier than putting drug users in there.
Yet still less destructive to society at large.

...Even if it'd make the prisons rather smelly.

>>2349942
Aight thanks

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>>2350894
>>2350922
>>2350955
>>2350972
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John viii. 32).

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Matt. x. 28).

Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men (1. Cor. vii. 23).

Among the first answers to my book there came some letters from the American Quakers. In these letters, which express their sympathy with my views concerning the unlawfulness for Christianity of all violence and war, the Quakers informed me of the details of their so-called sect, which for more than two hundred years has in fact professed Christ’s teaching about non-resistance to evil, and which has used no arms in order to defend itself. With their letters, the Quakers sent me their pamphlets, periodicals, and books. From these periodicals, pamphlets, and books which they sent me I learned to what extent they had many years ago incontestably proved the obligation for a Christian to fulfil the commandment about nonresistance to evil and had laid bare the incorrectness of the church teaching, which admitted executions and wars.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/leo-tolstoy-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you

Status: We have not found any evidence that Thomas Jefferson said or wrote, "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not," or any of its variations.

- Anna Berkes, 8/10/07; revised 8/21/15

>>2349484
population growth

>>2351055
>>2349942
No.

>>2351053
>>2351036
>>2350744
>>2350481
>>2350363
>>2350350

Is there some bot just posting random off topic copy-pasta shit on /his/ today?

Why is the justifcation for cannabis that it's either as bad or a bit better than alcohol? Alcohol is a known problem in society and is generally considered detrimental. Weed might not even be as bad but it's not like it's beneficial to have more people getting shitfaced and making an ass of themselves in public. The last thing we need is more legal drugs for recreational use.

It also smells much much worse than alcohol or cigarettes do. The weed shilling boggles my mind.

>>2349493
Even for an American you're retarded. The War on Drugs has been a failure in every regard, Drug production and importing into the USA has only increased, legalizing weed has done more for combating the Drug cartels than the war ever did or ever could.

>>2349532
Holy Kek

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Last dance with Mary Jane, one more time to kill the pain
I feel summer creepin' in and I'm tired of this town again

>>2351213

It's absolutely better for you physiologically in comparison to alcohol. Alcohol fucks with every part of your body. The justification is why is something that isn't nearly as bad illegal, while alcohol is?

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>>2349626
Holy shit it's been more than a decade since the "Vidya games are satanic" meme died. What a time to be alive.

Privatizing penal system
That gives authorities and judges incentives to lock up more people
Also blacks moving to inner cities causing gentrification and ghettoization
Bad or absent father figures and mainstreaming glorification of thug life also come into play

>>2351268

You missed the point. Why would we want to be legalizing more drugs and not reducing them?

>>2349493
Drugs of any kind should be legal, if you're fucking stupid enough to do them that's your own fucking fault. DEA is such a fucking waste of money holy shit. War on drugs is the biggest failure since communism.

>>2351309

It shouldnt be up to the government to tell people what to put in their bodies, especially when they aren't that harmful.

The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present, and future, always have existed, always will exist. […] When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in bad condition in that particular moment, but that the same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is “So it goes.”

>>2351320

Not to mention that state police get extra money from the federal government to focus on drug enforcement.

>>2351237
Dread Pirate Roberts might deserve to get punished for facilitating drug trafficking
But in his logic I agree with him, its best to buy and sell drugs online rather than having to go to some shady place for transactions, drugs are not going away, its about violence reduction
The war on drugs is as successful as prohibition was, difference is it gets politicians elected, arms industry happy and gives law enforcement more money power

>>2351268
Still a bad justification, both are bad.

Better justification is that making either illegal leads to massive violent crimes and ruins more lives than it saves.

>>2351268
Fermented beverages like beer and wine can be beneficial if consumed moderately
Distilled booze however is bad and should be heavily regulated

>>2351352

It's all alcohol with a fuck load of calories. Not to mention all the oxidation that goes on inside the body when you drink.

>>2351362
Wtv I have liver problems I cant even drink anyway
I just dont want anyone else to have fun if I cant lol

>>2350618
But that wrong, Anon.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

>>2351374

Did you drink too much? I thought the liver could repair itself.

>>2351381
there's a difference between state and federal prisons my man.
state prisons- 1.3 mil
federal prisons-215 thousand
as to anon's original statement,about 53% of people are in state prison due to violence (murder, rape, assault, robbery)

>>2351382
Its unrelated to drinking, its just an illness I have
Not that I dont drink beer or wine once in,- a while I dont think it will kill

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R. Jehudah b. Bathyra says: "Adam was sitting in the Garden of Eden and the angels served him with roasted meat and chilled wine." When the serpent saw this and observed this honor, he became jealous.

How was Adam created? The first hour his dust was gathered, the second the form was created, the third he became a body, the fourth his members were joined, the fifth the openings were developed, the sixth the soul was put unto him, the seventh he rose to his feet, the eighth Eve was mated to him, the ninth he was brought into the Garden of Eden, the tenth the command was given to him, the eleventh he sinned, the twelfth he was driven out and went away; this is what is written [Ps. xlix. 21]: "Ve Adam bikor bal yolin." 1 (Adam, "Bal Yolin"--he shall not stay over night.)

As soon as Adam the First heard that the Holy One, blessed be He, said: "And thou shalt eat the herbs of the field," he trembled in his whole body. He said before Him: "Lord of the Universe, shalt I and my cattle eat out of the same trough?" Said the Holy One, blessed be He: "As thou hast trembled, therefore in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread" [ibid., ibid. 19].
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/t05/abo05.htm

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However, such a choice has occurred to you, perhaps, without you understanding or knowing my manner of life, that I use only bread and olives, and rarely pot-herbs; and that this is my only coat and cloak which I wear; and I have no need of any of them, nor of anything else: for even in these I abound. For my mind, seeing all the eternal good things that are there, regards none of the things that are here. However, I accept of your good will; and I admire and commend you, for that you, a man of refined habits, have so easily submitted your manner of living to your necessities. For we, from our childhood, both I and Andrew, my brother, who is also my brother as respects God, not only being brought up in the condition of orphans, but also accustomed to labour through poverty and misfortune, easily bear the discomforts of our present journeys.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/080812.htm

(7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

Sahih International: Is the description of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all [kinds of] fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like [that of] those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=47&verse=15

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The Monk-- We do not forbid (eating) the meat. But we intend to have a light life, not material, in order to be nearer to God by lightening our body. The iron is purified from its impurities the closer it is to the fire. And as water becomes clearer, the water allows the sunlight to penetrate (it)--Don't you see that the rays let the light pierce through as far as they're thin and transparent? Don't you know that steam rising from the ground outshines the sunlight? The reason, O Prince, that is inside of us from God, becomes dark with luxurious life, and it keeps us away from God at the range of its darkness. And with our distance from God we attach ourselves to the corporal matters and to the love of the actual life. We avoid not only meat and women, but all corporal delights and everything that charms the five faculties. We expect, by using these privations, to obtain the graces of God in His eternal kingdom. He said,"you will not get the joy in the eternal world, if you don't endure the sorrows and difficulties in the perishable world."
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/christ-muslim-debate.asp

>>2350611
Because the U.S. drug laws were always enforced much more heavily and mercilessly on black citizens which had two effects.
1.many more of them start getting put in the prison pipeline where one stint of time for weed fucks you up for life and gives you no options except crime and begins a horrifying cycle as more and more people are dragged to jail and given the maximum sentences for crimes where whites would have been let off with a warning.
2. Everything I said above ruins the black communities trust in the law enforcement system which leads to higher crime rates.

>>2351213
Because it was mostly blacks and Mexicans using it which means it must be evil.

>>2350684
>You think the knock out game, flash mob race riots, or quintuple murder rape home invasions happened on the reg in 1900?
Yes. Only it was whites doing it without any repercussions.

>>2350611
Bannon get off the keyboard. Crime is the lowest it has ever been.

>>2350612
Keep saying that while you and I pay for them

>>2349522

Its about as harmful as alcohol. I smoked a joint and made me sleepy and hungry. I will still to vodka thank you very much.

Anyways. I don't see why you put people in prison for this shit. Waste of tax payer money if you ask me. Tax it like you would cigarettes and alcohol.

>>2352410
>about as harmful as alcohol

You base this on what? Alcohol oxidizes your cells and fucks them up.