East Asian Architecture - What Went Wrong?

Architecture that broke feng shui rules was destroyed by some government department from my recollection.

Just more Asian autism basically.

>>2340292
Yeah, if you go to the Temple of Heaven park in Beijing you'll see some religious structure was destroyed for such a reason.

I felt the same way after a couple of days in kyoto.

East Asian high culture bores me.

>>2340356
>>2340292
that's a shame :/

>>2340262
Weirdly enough the only impressive things in East Asia are a result of westernization, like supertall skyscrapers designed by French architects and shit like that. Their traditional architecture sucks dick.

And it gets even worse when you go inland. Like the capital of Mongolia was literally a bunch of toolsheds until Russians built them a proper city.

>>2340982
I love Asian culture. Then again I think Asian culture is generally beautiful .
t.White American.

I have a theory for why East Asian art and physical culture is so unremarkable when you compare it to how impressive the sheer longevity of China is and it basically relates back to Chinese and East Asians being the only people in the world who successfully built a civilization with adaptive long term values while also internalising de facto atheism and the consequences of this.

Basically they have no sense of transcendalism like the other races do. For better or worse.

>>2340982
What about cultural determinism?

>>2340999
Some will point to traditional Chinese religion but this never offered a real theological worldview. It was even less explicitly theistic than indo European pre Christian beliefs like Hinduism or zeus. In fact it seems more focused on codifying a sort of highly elaborate set of superstitions which perhaps have some sort of evolutionary benefit.

The anti Chinese writer Ralph Townsend described it as "hollow rites".

>>2341020
>The anti Chinese writer Ralph Townsend described it as "hollow rites".
Do you think that's accurate?

>>2340982
No. That's exaggeration. The bureaucracies and the professionalism of pre modern government was very impressive.

But the physical culture is lacking. For whatever reason. Perhaps they think building things is just ephemeral. Ozymandias comes to mind.

If that's the case. It's a sad worldview. Not much joie de vivre.

>>2341037
Yes. But in the government sphere they served a purpose of helping to make sure government wasn't so hasty. It built patience.

On the level of everyday peasantry it seems pretty hollow. Like people going to gravestones and pretending to sob for the allotted period of time that the relevant text or tradition mandated.

>>2340262
Well I'm sure they had a lot more but they destroyed most of it in the cultural revolution.

>>2341049
Interesting. I don't know much about Taoic religions so this is all new to me.

>>2341061
This is actually a common misconception. Chinese material culture like architecture has always been ephemeral. Always not lasted that long. It is built from wood for goodness sake.

The cultural revolution meme is a HK Taiwan and overseas Chinese trick to excuse traditional Chinese cultures failings. Don't fall for it.

>>2341068
go worship mao more u faggot

>>2341061
Wrong, most buildings were wooden anyway. The CR was more about destroying archaeological finds and shiet.

>>2341076
I dislike communism in general and all left wing ideologies. You've got no idea what you're talking about.

Cultural revolution is just a catch all way of shielding the traditional culture from criticism.

Why do Chinese do x or believe in x?

Cultural revolution.

>>2341082
Probably because it was (in my opinion) one of the most culturally destructive projects in modern human history. When you look at comparable states; Meiji/Imperial Japan, the USSR and Nazi Germany, you'll notice that all of them coopted rather than outrighted attempted to obliterate the preceding culture.

I don't htink the CR is used as some bubble to deflect from criticism of traditional chinese culture.

>>2340262

>build houses with wood because cheaper than stone
>durable enough for the day-to-day basis
>easy to replace should needed
>less is more
>hoaitto piggu go home.

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>>2341020
>>2341037
Idk how relevant is this, though this doesn't apply to all of them, but Sinotic culture like China and Japan are heavily influenced by concept such as Zen and Fengshui, which was influenced by Buddhism. art, aesthetics, and buildings are made according to this teaching which heavily aspire for cleanliness and minimalism, it was deliberately meant to be hollow, architecture was merely a frame to nature in Japanese principle for example

as for why they build out of wood instead of permanent building is also tied to religious belief, reflecting how their architecture function, for example, the only reason Temples in Japan survive today because they are constantly rebuild every 50 years in sort of traditional rite, the same way as ordinary buildings

in Japanese traditional houses, the rooms doesn't have specific function as in western houses, but all used as multifunctional rooms that are furnished and change function quickly according to need, (aka from futon bedroom to tea house, etc), also according to zen masters (forgot the name) a good room should only have only 2 or 3 decoration and it must be meaningful, if not its considered decadent

Its long topic but basically asian architecture reflect the minimalist and transient nature of Zen/Feng Shui belief, maybe thats what he mean by hollow
in contrast the more Indian influenced asians such as Tibetans and southeast Asians has very ornate architecture compared to EA

I know this isn't very good explanation, sorry for bad english

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>>2340262
Asians, especially Chinese, have a habit of purging anything that is to individualistic and not conformist.

The most recent purge was by the communists. It's why the forbidden city no longer houses all of the luxuries and art pieces it once did.

>>2341550
That sort of architecture predates the adoption of Buddhism.

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At least a lot of the old Chinese architecture is still standing and properly preserved.

Compare that to Rome where they pillaged everything for building materials and left the ruins to fall down and rot, and all that's left of most of it is a few stumps.

>>2340262
How was the dog?
Can i get dog at street vendors still or does the party not like that

>>2343400
It isn't though. The forbidden city is ming dynasty era. Ie. Well over a millennium after romes heyday and most of it is qing and modern reconstructions anyway.

Extant architecture in East Asia is not as ancient as extent architecture in Europe.

>>2343400
Ancient Chinese architecture was made of wood. Almost none of it survives save for tombs and other similar constructs.

Doesn't help they rebuilt on old city sites over the millennia.

>>2343546
>Ancient Chinese architecture was made of wood.
They also used rammed earth.

>>2343523

what about the Terracotta Army?

>>2343620
That's sculpture mate.

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>>2343620
Plenty of tombs survived because they were the only structures the Chinese built to last.

The Roman Emperors spent all their dosh on cities of marble and settled into simple tombs (Augustus' mausoleum was a building on a hill, though still nice). Qin Shi Huang spent his on mercury pills and building a giant fucking city and a pyramid for him and his retainers after death.

>>2341020
>Some will point to traditional Chinese religion but this never offered a real theological worldview.

As some one who who has read up on the matter this is but true and untrue. It is true if we are talking about the form it carried on in when westerners started to learn about it. It is untrue if you go back to how it was. Really rather then a single religion it was like 4 or 5 mythoses with common practices. Buddhism killed the high culture theistic outlook during the later parts of the Ming dynasty. However it did not really attack low culture folk takes on traditional Chinese religion. Confucianism made sure that the old rites were done still even if no one still cared about why those rites were done in the first place. Tradition mattered, belief in the subject did not.

> even less explicitly theistic

From the Han to the Song dynasty daily prayer to a number of deities was common.

>>2343652
Chinese Buddhism is degenerate shit. Always has been.

>>2344369
Buddhism in general is degenerate

>>2344423
Right, but the Buddhism of Northern India/Nepal was at least better than the assemblage of hollow rites and superstitions called Chinese Buddhism.

>>2341061
t. Memespouting retard

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>>2344427
>theology
>better, worse

Why is Kung fu useless in real fights?

Why do chinks pretend it is a superpower?

>>2344423
>>2344369
whoa whoa whoa. If your not coming at this from an materialist/anti-religious perspective, i'm curious as to your reasoning why you feel this way.

If you ARE coming at it from an atheist/materialist perspective, its not that i'm dismissing you so much as I already know the reason you think Chinese Buddhism is shit.

>>2343630
Mostly because for quite a long time roman emperors pretended to not be monarchs.

>>2343630
That's pretty Egyptian KANGZ tier

Was that big barn you posted where the Emperor lived OP?

>>2345716
That was where the black bean sauce was made.

>>2340262
>China
Should have gone to Japan. Everything about their culture is superior to China's.

>>2340262
Have you been to the summer palace, that's a lot more impressive imo. It's hard to generalize such a large and old civilization as China, I'd hold off on the judgment my dude.

>>2341068
>>2341076
>>2344822
I'm doing my degree on China and i assure you, they burnt down a hell of a lot of ancient and traditional buildings. Why the fuck do you think the only ones you ever see are modern rebuilds or tiny temples?

>>2341068
>The cultural revolution meme
How on earth is it being called a meme. I literally know 100s of people who lived through it and took part in it.

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To be honest this kicks the shit out of Versailles, I don't know what crack OP is smoking but he's no architect.

>>2345854
Neither are you, buddy.

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>>2345874

I took one class, which qualifies me as an expert as far as /his/ is concerned.

One can compare the above pic to the Versailles reflecting pool. The above looks cozy. As if one were still living in the garden of eden. Versailles looks like a good place to freeze your ass off in the winter. Vast amounts of wasted space, and an "epic" building that consists of a rectangle on top of a rectangle. But it has urinating statues! So cool!

>>2345843
You've got to go back Chang. You're not getting any more of those Lockheed Martin blueprints now that the God Emperor is in charge.

>>2345854
>>2345986
there's nothing to fight here, they're both are beautiful in their own way, while classical architecture exemplifies grandeur, symmetry, order and a sense of grandness, the forbidden palace is more about harmonising with nature, human scale and sense of "cozyness" (casual wise), they're both are build with different standard

>>2345854
stfu weeb

>>2345854
Wow, it's a wooden, un-ornate building with a curved gable roof overlooking a pond.

It's like nothing ever seen before in East Asian architecture! It's definitely not the same thing they've been repeating verbatim for three thousand years or anything!

Fuck off Chang. And Versailles can't hold a candle to Northern Italian palaces as far as architectural quality goes.

>>2345986
>I took an architecture class
>it looks "cosy"

It looks like a barn you literal mongoloid.

Go praise Ho Chi Ming elsewhere.

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>>2346036
>>2345986
There is absolutely nothing 'cosy' about this. Go to the Forbidden City and see it for yourself instead of looking at pictures. It is, as OP states, a succession of barns with very little inside of them.

European architecture actually has this thing where interior spaces are distinct to exterior facades. It's pretty amazing.

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>>2346075

Did you visit anyplace that wasn't a throne room or meeting area? Those spaces are there to fit the entire imperial court, all the officials, soldiers, and servants. It's like looking at buckingham palace without the weaselhats. The people are part of the architecture. These areas would certainly not have been empty.

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>>2346102
You're some chink living in North America? And yes. I went to see things like the Treasure Rooms, and the Nine Dragon Screen - which is so hugely hyped up you need to pay extra but is a complete letdown and boring like most East Asian art. Here's the Emperor's Bridal Bed for example, it just looked so... underwhelming.

I honestly saw more great art and architecture at Hampton Court, a small palace or a relatively (for the time) small European monarchy.

Chinese just have zero aesthetic taste.

>>2346075
I like this room though,
looks a bit as if it were coated in dust tho.

*also needs warmer lighting.

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>>2346158

So far I'm the only one who has even posted western examples. If you want to argue that one thing is better than the other, please post an example of that thing, at least for the sake of the rest of the people in the thread who haven't been there. Otherwise you shouldn't bitch when your personal dislike of a place which leads you to post that it objectively sucks is not universally acclaimed by all.

From your posts I can tell you also know jack shit about western architecture as well, you don't even compare apples to apples. Pic is a nice Roman villa with interior space, because guess what the Romans also loved walled housing complexes and interior courtyards.

>>2346033
I'm actually a westerner who's lived in China.

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>>2346231
You don't deny you're some piece of shit Chink American from a place like San Fran?

Leland Yee supporting chink subhuman yellow ape.

>Pic is a nice Roman villa with interior space

Yes, it's an interior courtyard, it also formed one contiguous space and had rooms for various purposes, which makes it markedly different to any East Asian architecture by that fact alone. Most siheyuan were not even joined up after all, because most housed more than one family.

I'm not sure what exact point you're trying to pull here Chang. I know chinks are incapable of admitting defeat on any cultural matter (even while they send their kids to study violin rather than guqin, even in the PRC itself) but this is ridiculous. It is an attested fact that western architecture has more variety within it than Chinese does.

And before we continue, at least have the decency to admit you are a chink. So funny how quickly it changes from "PROUD DESCENDANT OF THE DRAGON!" to little bitch who won't even declare his ethnic background. Fucking Eddie Huang cunt.

>>2343406
Dog eating is actually still legal. There's a festival for it.

>>2346271
Are you really getting angry, racist and defensive over an architecture discussion?

>>2346277
Why should it be illegal?

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>>2346271
>Yes, it's an interior courtyard, it also formed one contiguous space and had rooms for various purposes, which makes it markedly different to any East Asian architecture by that fact alone.


Can you guess which one is the Chinese and which one is the Roman?

[spoiler]Chinese is on the left, Roman on the right.[/spoiler]

>>2346326
They're significantly different though....

And you're talking about villa urbana in cities specifically, other types were more free flowing.

Architecture isn't just room layout by the way.

>>2346300
They are literally normal people, consider not taking out your inner anger on an arbitrary race.

>>2346300
And im fucking british ya twat

>>2346343
Listen, if you spent any time in China or the Greater China region, speak Chinese/Putonghua with any degree of skill and are still claiming that chinks are "just like us", you're delusional.

The average chink holds racially supremacist views that would mark him out on the far right over here. Now! There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but what it does mean is that courting them and kissing their asses just serves to inflate an already insanely pumped up ego and helps them engage in confirmation bias about the "superiority" of Chinese culture.

Your white knighting for Chinese traditional culture ITT would never be replicated by a Chinese person for your own culture. Chinese do not respect the notion of reciprocity, they only respect force/strength.

Death to Buddhism.

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>>2346337

If barbarians were busting your door down, the left example is easier to defend. On the right once they breach the front door they are already in the courtyard. Oblique entrances are something you'd expect more from the Al-Hambra than just some random person's house.

>>2346380
It's a domestic villa, it wouldn't even be defended in the event of an invading enemy - The inhabitants would just fuck off to their villa rustica.

Ridiculous chink-tier argument. Ho Chi Minh would be proud.

>>2346402
>>2346364
>your white knight
>being this obsessed with yellow people

Self hating Asian spotted. I can tell because of your dogshit tier English and your tendency to shout at your own race.

Only Asians ever do this, usually males. I don't get it.

>>2346402

>circus factions rioting outside
>i'm sure no one will notice if my family and possessions decide to leave at this very moment

>>2346417
That was Constantinople you stupid faggot. Byzantine architecture was different by that point.

>>2346416
Are you kidding? Most overseas Chinese are, even third-generation ones, absolutely loyal to the People's Republic.

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>>2346440

You mean it was Nova Roma, catamite. They don't call you loose Lucius for nothing. That ass is raggedier than Lavinia. Pic related, btw it's the new capital of Italy. Shit is cash.

>>2340262

Been to both Japan and China. I have to say that Chinese architecture is more 'grander' in the scale of simply being more massive/bigger; the great wall, the massive forbidden city complex, etc. But it just ends there. Up close, it isn't very impressive but it seems that the Chinese just pride themselves at creating massive structures. The Japanese on the other hand focus on making things aesthetic.

I think the Chinese-style of big/bland architecture was in a way to intimidate other states, foreign emissaries and their own serfdom in a way that modern Fascist stone architecture does (massive, stone-faced Roman-esque buildings).

>>2345827
The Summer Palace is hardly ancient

>>2346440
>Are you kidding? Most overseas Chinese are, even third-generation ones, absolutely loyal to the People's Republic.
Have you only been speaking to American diasporas? Singaporeans and Malaysians (now on our third, fourth, fifth generations and up) are contemptuous at best of the uncultured and greedy "Chinamen" from the mainland. Though I'll admit we are often ethnocentric to a degree that would get us called fascists if we were white.

>>2346984
Fucking go back to China, you yellow. Fucking Asian Jews, getting away with every Jew things you do by playing the victim card.

>>2347008
Are you Indonesian?

>>2347012
>Implying they're not hated in all of Asia

>>2346300
lol

>>2347008
Your definitely an asian kek

Kek..Too many butthurt chinks in this thread

Why don't you dog eaters admit that your shitty architecture will never be superrior and beauty as the West?

>>2347343
Wow what a based "white" man. Kek white people don't hate/care about asians, only other asians do silly Indonesian.

You're so cucked and your civilization is so unimpressive that you hide behind western culture as a shield. Why aren't you proud of your own "civilization"?

>>2347381
>implying i'm that anon

3/10, Zhao

>>2347381
>your civilization is so unimpressive that you hide behind your culture as a shield
literally what did they mean by this

>>2347395
Oh, your not gook anon? Nvm, gtfo out then. I don't want to talk with white people, I want to argue with other asians

>>2343630
>terracotta acrobats

There's probably a whole court there, terracotta Mandarins and eunuchs included

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>>2347541

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>>2340262
>East Asian Architecture - What Went Wrong?
You mean what went right. I couldn't disagree more. East Asian architecture's great and alot of times pretty comfy
>>2347541
/pol/ pls go

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>>2349000

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>>2349015

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>>2349032

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>>2349045

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>>2349050

>>2345839
Probably some Noam Chomsky posting, and the CIA is at fault for the loss of traditional Chinese culture.

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>>2349052

>>2346532
Rulers of China probably cared little for foreign ambassadors. It was more about selling the power of the empire to the plebs.

>>2340262
I would hardly call the forbidden city a series of barns. Just because you dont like the style or appreciate the spiritual elements that were woven into its construction doesn't mean it isn't impressive.

This isn't a pissing contest

This is probably the single worst thread on 4chan right now.

>>2346271
Back to /pol/

>>2349054
Mao is at fault for being a mad man

>>2346364
>Listen, if you spent any time in China or the Greater China region,
I'm not white knighting for anything, I'm just not a rambling racist who clearly has personal problems with Chinese people probably because a chinese guy took your girl.

They, like everyone else on the planet, are just regular people.

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lol Versailles

>>2349624
>Chinese guy probably took your girl

Said no foreigner ever.

>>2350223
Why are you so fixated on versailles chink? There are a few thousand palaces in Europe with more beauty than the forbidden city.

>>2347008
t. assmad Malay

>>2347541
... pic unrelated?
Or did you actually get cucked by a gook lmao

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>>2340262
Shamelessly reposting this here from /diy/

I'm working on a design project that will involve an East Asian style curved roof. The problem is that I cannot seem to find any info on the design specifics of these roofs, such as roof pitch, curvature or anything technical like that. I know they didn't eyeball that shit and it's bullshit that no source can give me the math behind the construction. Can anybody help me with this?

>>2340262
Too much unity/stability for way too long.

Much of what motivated the splendor of European architecture from the Renaissance through to WWI was a sense of competition among the various kings and noblemen of Europe. Palaces and cathedrals were more about being symbols of the greatness of the nations that constructed them than they were about being nice to live and pray in.

China lost that driving force over 2,000 years ago, when the "Warring State Period" ended. What we see today as traditional Chinese architecture is basically the result of a thousand years of cultural decline and decadence.

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>>2345986
There are plenty of comfier, less austere palace complexes in Europe.

>>2350770
>China lost that driving force over 2,000 years ago, when the "Warring State Period" ended.
China has been disunited and made up of competing warlord states plenty of times since the end of the Warring States period.

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>>2340262
>Shit can't hold a candle to European

>Be Europe
>Split into many countries.
>Erryone has the same fucking castle architecture
>EVERYONE WAS MUH ROMAN AND GOES NEOFUCKING CLASSICAL
>"East Asian Architecture arr rook same."
Nah.

>>2350805
This post makes no sense. Is English your first language? You've already described three architectural styles significantly different from one another. Medieval castles, roman and neo classical.

Asian Americans are not loyal to America.

>>2351007
Was commenting on how Eurocuck countries have the same architecture, while expecting East Chinkian countries to have differing ones from each other.

No I'm not American.

>>2351021
Yeah but you described three different architectural styles/movements. Of course the movements themselves are going to be similar, but even there there's regional differences, eg northern Renaissance.

Why can't chinks just accept that chinkland has less architectural variety? Why is it so impossible for you to accept basic facts? I don't pretend Europe invented paper and gunpowder before chinks did.

You see it as a loss of face. Forget about that Karate Kid shit. Truth is more important than face. However flat the face is.

>>2351046
>You.
I'm Australian kek. I dunno, but maybe someone who knows E. Asian history would call you out on it? I only know Jap ones and I can tell you that the appearance of extensive fortification and bigass castles was a 1500s thing while prior to that, the most sophisticated fortification a Nip can throw up is a hillfort or dig trenches around a city/house.

>>2351059
t. Bruce Chang

>>2351059
>>2350805
>>2351021
t. zhang