Was the Catholic church really that anti science

>>2339252
Who preserved texts and documents when marauders pillaged the lands, the church of iliterate peasants?

No.

>>2339255
Roman Empire and its institutions.

>>2339252
Catholics aren't Christian

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>>2339252
only when it become a popular idea the world was round and evolution, because in the bible it says Jesus stood on a mountain and seen the edge of the world and evolution scares inbred Baptist

>>2339255

The Byzantines.

>>2339252

It blew hot and cold. On the one hand, many Catholics believed that science was a way to understand God thru his creation, on the other hand many believed it was profane at best and heretical at worst. Different popes leaned one way or the other, and the degree of control the Church actually exercised on the ground varied hugely across time and space. Medieval people loved them some religious manias and radical Christian mysticism, and these inds of populist peasant-led movements were often anti-science.

>>2339252
Catholics (both catholic clergy and catholic laypeople) have been dedicating themselves to science since the begging.

>>2339252
When I'm defending science, they were.
When I'm arguing against proddies, they weren't.

>>2339252
Up until Porta Pia's Breach and the final nail in the Pope's temporal power's coffin, the Catholic Churchill was mostly anti-scince and anti-tech due to the fact that they believed science was more of a position in understanding how the world works and that it was something entirely opposed to religion and religious authority (and thus the Pope's Power).

When the Pope-king became just Pope, the position quickly changed, n order to keep an indirect grip on the increasingly scientifically-minded catholics and be taken a are bit more seriously.

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>>2339252

>>2339694
What about the famous scientific popes such as Pope Sylvester II?

>>2339292
are you high?

>>2339252

the church in the enlightenment period is like the military today

every step ahead was set because of religion

european universities? set up by the church
printing press? literally first book printed was the bible
general literacy? in protestantism every man was technicly a priest and thus had to be able to read the bible (this is the reason why places like germany and scandinavia had much higher literacy rates then france or spain, hell in portugal only 52% of the population can write or read decently)

science was seen as a way to better understand god's creation, it's only after science began to disprove the bible and even wether the earth was created after all that it did get rather anti-science

>>2339252
It was neither as anti-science as it has been portrayed in the past nor as pro-science as recent revisionists/apologists try to argue. The church's position on acceptable and unacceptable scientific inquiry shifted over its lifespan depending on external circumstances.

>>2339737
>printing press? literally first book printed was the bible

You now realize printing the Bible in German was the greatest existential threat the Catholic church faced during the time.

It wasn't so much that it was anti-science, but anti-anything that threatened its power. Science, government, dissent, taxes, land. All of it was protected with vigor.

>>2339252
Why did the Industrial revolution occur in Protestant Europe and not Renaissance Catholic Europe?

>>2339252

Quite the opposite, really.

Yes and no.

For instance, the Catholic Church founded and funded the very universities that a lot of its "enemies" were educated at.

Copernicus was educated first at St. John's School at Toruń then Cathedral School at Włocławek and then at a Catholic funded University of Kraków.

Similar thing is with Galileo and others.

>>2339794
>Copernicus
>enemy of the church
No.

>>2339252
>Was the Catholic church really that anti science

No. The Church, like any human institution, got institutionally uncomfortable when previously held ideas were challenged, and had more weapons to defend a previously held position than anybody else did.

Look at the rise of the heliocentric model. It was generally accepted by those studying the cosmos, many but not all of whom were involved in the Church, that the Ptolemaic system with the Earth at the center of all things was correct. This fit with scripture, but it also fit with the best observational evidence.

As new observations accumulated (retrograde motion of the planets did not fit comfortably into the Ptolemaic model, and observations of the Galilean moons orbiting something other than the Earth did not fit at all) gradually revealed the need for a new system, and Copernicus's heliocentric system fit the bill pretty well.

As is usual in science (and religion) new ideas met with resistance ,and had to prove themselves. Some Church leaders erred, I think, in equating points of scientific knowledge with points of doctrine. Others did not make that mistake. Eventually, the Copernican system won over those who opposed it, and became accepted -- until it, too, was supplanted by a new system based on new evidence.

>>2339335
>only when it become a popular idea the world was round

Knowledge that the world is round is older than you think.

>>2339749

the first one was in latin, it wasn't the printing directly that doomed it but rather that the printing helped in distributing translated copies

and I'd say that the reformation actually saved the catholic church, not doomed it, before the reformation the church was exactly what luther said it was,
it was a rotten house and the longer it stayed that way the more damning would be it's fall,
you don't even need any translations for the catholic church to be called into question, remember the cathars, the lollards and the hussites

the reformation made the catholics come together and actually resolve long-standing conflicts and remove severall painpoints that had been exposed

>>2339335
Like 2000 BC?

>>2339822
This. Ironically the council of Trent created a Catholicism that would be strong and moral in tell the second Vatican council in the 1960s imo.

>>2339737
>european universities? set up by the church
Only some were, as a part of a greater trend of corporatism and guild fraternities throughout Western Europe.

The Church was only pro or anti science as society in general was, and struggled to maintain its place at the table when science, philosophy, art, and law was steadily overtaken by secular interests.

>>2339825
More like the 5th century BC.

>>2339347
I think this guy makes an important point, something we all probably know, but often forget we know: The Church (or Science, or the Meso-Americans, or the Romans, or the Japanese...) generally had priorities, beliefs, programs and strategies that changed over time. And generally there was some range of opinion on all that among the members of the group under discussion.

Did the Romans believe in an individual soul? Some did, some didn't, prevalence of belief in a soul changed over time.

Was the Church anti-science? In some ways, on some issues, at some times, yes, at other times on other issues, no -- and with the caveat that there were dissenters in greater or lesser numbers (when the Church was opposing a scientific advance, some would have supported it, when it supported one, some would have opposed it)

>>2339757
Germs. Or maybe guns, I can't decide.

>>2339794
Like Luther and Wittenberg?

>>2339252

We all know atheists will end up in the ironic hell that they didn't believe in and will burn for eternity.

Why anyone should care about an atheist's opinion on religion is beyond me.

>>2339695
lmao

>>2339252
>as many atheists claim it was?
You mean Protestants. Most atheist don't believe that.

>>2339757

why was the 2nd industrialised country in europe catholic belgium?

I don't think you can put that down to religion

rather that in most catholic countries there wasn't a middle class readily available to kickstart the industrial revolution like in brittain and germany but the economy was mainly into the hands of nobles whose investments these new industries threatened

>>2339757
>Rhineland and Westphalia
>Protestant

>>2339252
Memes aside, yes. Don't believe what the propaganda says. Church forced theology as the main field of study for nearly a millenium, closed the pagan academias, took a stance against autopsies, analgesics, evolution, Aristotles physics, heliocentrism etc.

>>2339855
Pretty sure the guys who built the pyramid at Giza knew the world was round.

Seeing as how they accounted for it in their foundation and all.

>>2339252

There are a few groups who want to rule the world. Each of these groups fights vigorously against anything that challenges their capacity to rule the world. These groups are generally as follows: catholics, muslims, communists and NWO types.

When they all get together, they will rule the world. And then you will know what "hell on earth" is really like.

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>>2339292
k

>>2340002
It's time you realized that for yourself.

>>2339695

writing existed in England far before the arrival of the Church, the Church just seized them, banned pagan oral histories, and proceeded to make your monk dudes copy the Bible and theological texts over and over and over again

>>2339252
No it's the one thing I'll defend the papists on.

>>2339893
>Church forced theology as the main field of study for nearly a millenium

>base entire life around christianity
>consider theology to be important

You don't say?

closed the pagan academias,

Which had more to do with literature and philosophy than science.

>took a stance against autopsies

Not really

>analgesics

Citation needed

>evolution

Citation needed

>Aristotle's physics

Blatantly false

>heliocentrism

Until heliocentrism was shown to be true practically everyone since Aristotle believed in geocentrism

>>2339757
The industrial revolution occurred in exactly one Protestant country. Post 1800s Great Britain. It isn't fair to compare it to an era which happened centuries earlier.

Also the IR quickly spread to catholic, Latin France. Crediting the entire Protestant world to it is wewuzing to a large degree.

>>2340021
The monk from the post would be upset if he read this.

>>2339284
The Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) church(es) are literally the only survivors of the Roman state.