Friendly reminder that McCarthy literally did nothing wrong.

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I remember that some dumbass here tried to convince me that McCarthy was batting "at least .500" because "half of his targets were actual Soviet sympathizers".

I guess it didn't occur to him that (despite the fact that his number wasn't even close) being wrong, and bullying and targeting innocent people half the time, is enough to discredit your entire cause.

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>>2325729
Macarthur Parker

considering the threat we faced, I actually am glad he was around

>>2325746
Well the other half probably deserved it one way or another.

>>2325769
There was no threat, the Cold War was a series of illegal acts of aggression by the United States against the sovereignty of the developing world.

The Cold War wasn't US vs. CCCP; the Cold war was the US vs. poor countries that were refusing to open themselves up to international capitalism.

To a lesser extent, the cold war was also about the Soviets waging warfare against their own puppet states who kept trying to push for independence; but the vast majority of atrocities were committed by America against the third world.

>>2325768
>pic implys Jesus would be against McCarthyism

>>2325729
Still cringes at hearing or speaking the word McCarthy ism.

The fucker did not deserve to get an ism after his last name.

>>2325836
this guy is woke

>>2325874
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun"

>>2325729
Honestly, I'm convinced we should skin all communist and their socialist sympathizers alive. McCarthy knew what's happening. It was tried and failed so many times it's not even funny anymore. Our civilization can't handle any more of these experiments. Either you support the principles of liberal democracy or you are exterminated. Every political system should take the necessary steps to preserve itself.

>>2325874
This post is 100% true..

>>2325836
But the United States and Soviet Union only did those things to curb the each other's influence. That's why they're called proxy conflicts.

The "threat" that anon is referring to was the threat that Communism would have seemed more desirable to the masses if the United States didn't go out of its way to push the supremacy of western capitalism.

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>>2325836
You're too smart for this board. Come home.

>>2325836
>SU dindu nuffin, dey be gud boys, de United Satan Amerikkka is bad, mkay.
Yeah, only "exporting the revolution"- arming shithole gureillas to overthrow their governments, instigating civil wars some of which still aren't resolved, destroying the whole social and economical base of Eastern Europe, condemning 300 million europeans to a century of pre and post commie stagnation and ruin, having a wide network of spies and informants, trying to subvert the intellectual circles. Simple stuff, why is the normal world even mad, I dunno. Kys hippie subhuman.

>>2325938
It was necessary to fight imperialism. The US did the same but out of colonialism and greed.

>>2325942
>It was necessary to fight imperialism
>>>/leftypol/

>>2325729
Except for purposely causing panic and fear to advance himself into positions of power and eliminating his political rivals by calling them or threatening to call them "Communists"


What's sad is how people are so willing to let gross misuse of power slide as long as its used against those they don't like or agree with. Fuck Americans. The country's ideals are too fucking good for its people.

>>2325935
>supports "black lives matter"
What did they mean by this?

>>2325836
To be fair though we have the huge advantage of hindsight.

It's easy to say the Cold War was just the first world waging war against the third world, while the Soviet Union waged separate wars against the second world; from our vantage point here in 2012.

But it doesn't mean we should shit on people from the past for not having the full picture that we now enjoy. The sincerely feared the soviet or american threat.

Can some one explain to me how prosecuting someone for their political beliefs is compatible with liberal democracy? Imean, say he was right about these guys being Soviet sympathizers....your remedy for that is to....have political show trials. Does no one see the irony in this?

>>2325982
The same way the Vatican justifies all that marble and Gentiles worshiping the god of Israel.

Don't think about it too much.

>>2325982
If said "political beliefs" go against the very core of liberal democracy, then they should be prosecuted. Simply shouting "Communist!" is a cliche, but recognizing and alerting people to obvious ideological threats is necessary for a stable republic to function.

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>>2325836

>>2325898
>we should skin all communist and their socialist sympathizers alive
> Either you support the principles of liberal democracy or you are exterminated
*tips edginess*

>>2325953
>le everyone i dont le like is le leftypol meme
le ebin XD!!

>>2325942
Then everything the US did was necessary to contain Communism by that logic. It goes both ways.

>>2325898
I hate commies as much as the next guy but try not to cut yourself on all that edge there kiddo.

>>2326150
McCarthy's bullshit wasn't necessary to stop the internal threat of Communism. If anything, it just made us look bad & like hypocrites. On the other hand, FBI infiltration and de-stabilization of known communist/socialist organizations was inherently justified as many were being directly funded by the USSR and actually posed a threat to the stability of the republic.

>>2325964
It's bait, don't read too much into it.

>>2325836
>>2325870
>>2326257
>>2325935

>I samefag my own posts to create the illusion of consensus on a Taiwanese horse breeding forum

gay af desu

>>2326404
>It's bait, don't read too much into it.
>>>
>Anonymous 02/06/17(Mon)14:18:34 No.2326404▶
> >>2325836
> >>2325870
> >>2326257 (You)
> >>2325935
> >I samefag my own posts to create the illusion of consensus on a Taiwanese horse breeding forum
> gay af desu
nope

>>2325729
Yep, the Venona papers have largely absolved him. Too bad the 16 year old commieboo virgins here are too butthurt to admit it

>>2325836
>it's another redditor who's read a Naomi Klein book or Howard Zinn and thinks they're an expert on 20th century history and the global economic order

so much cringe

>>2326977
Because no one can believe that there are several people who are gullible enough to think that the US were overreacting and exxagerating the way Soviets were influencing and taking over other countries and regimes.

>>2325836
>To a lesser extent, the cold war was also about the Soviets waging warfare against their own puppet states
While their technological capacity never could match the US, and therefore their local military actions may seem like something "lesser" than the development of ICBMs and nuclear submarines and shit, really it was this attitude of the Soviets that reinforced American paranoia. How much of Europe could we let go before we had to put up a fight? Which nobody really wanted to do, on either side.

The Soviets also backed a bunch of left-wing and secular groups in the Arab world, which ended up backfiring pretty bad

>>2325836
>I've read Noam Chosmky and know all about Salvador Allende, and absolutely nothing about Mengistu Haile Mariam.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/212053/setting-record-joe-mccarthy-straight-harvey-klehr

bretty good article on McCarthy

>But if McCarthy was wrong on the details — and what is history but details — many historians today are both wrong on the details about McCarthyism and morally obtuse about the nature of communism. Far too many American historians believe that anti-communism or the search for Soviet spies was baseless paranoia. They recoil so strongly from McCarthy that they are unable to recognize that just because an objectionable politician cynically employed anti-communism does not mean that anti-communism was objectionable. The CPUSA was a haven for spies and Soviet subversion presented a genuine security threat to the United States. But, for Ellen Schrecker, former editor of Academe, journal of the American Association of University Professors, all varieties of anti-communism are species of McCarthyism. Opposition to communism, she has written,” tapped into something dark and nasty ion the human soul.” Blanche Wiesen Cook of CUNY lamented that “everything fine and creative in American thought has been splattered and smeared” by hostility to communism.

>One of the oddest phenomena in the academic world is the nostalgia so many professor display for communism. The human costs of that ideology, we now know, run upwards of 100 million dead in the former Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, eastern Europe and North Korea. In light of archival evidence that during the Great Purges of the 1930s, the USSR was executing almost 1000 political prisoners a day

mccarthy and left wingtards both btfo

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>>2326150
and who gets to decide what "goes against the very core of liberal democracy"

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>>2327325
Whoever I like. If I don't like anyone, then whoever you dislike.

>>2327027
>>2326998
>>2326404
>when liberal democrats can't refute your critique of their system so they revert to smears and whataboutism

Truly this is the best feeling for an anticolonialist. I'm envious.

>>2327394
>critique
>a splutter of spurious assertions with no evidence and not falsifiable
>expects me to take him seriously

maybe the big boys of /r/anarchism are open to your regurgitation of ms klein, but us simpletons on /his/ won't tolerate it

>>2327394
Not any of them, but what about something like the US intervention in the Korean war. Clearly that was an act of aggression by a communist country against a neighboring sovereign state with (at the very least) tacit approval of the Soviet Union. How was America intervening "an illegal act of aggression against the sovereignty of the developing world?"

>>2327325
This is the basic trouble of McCarthy's methods.

You may not like Communists but you are passively accepting the government labeling a group of citizens as dangerous and using questionable methods to suppress said danger that infringes upon the rights of those citizens.

That is a very worrisome power to allow a politician.

>>2326150
Shit nigga then why are alt right and neo nazi fringe group still roam free?

>>2327449
At the risk of sounding illiberal, what right did the Soviets or America have to occupy the Korean peninsula post-WW2? Clearly this was realpolitik at work for both sides, although most likely Korea would have just been occupied or become a client state of China if neither had done the occupying. There was a vacuum, and that vacuum would be filled by someone.

When the North Koreans invaded the south, the US defended its interests, and the Soviets defended theirs. Was it "illegal" by the standards of the time? Not really - it had UN backing for the US, and the South surely would have fallen without US help. But in the grand scope of things, was it a more Kantian issue of "if you use X, Y, and Z means, you must be considered infringing on the sovereignty of the developing world, regardless of your ends"? Clearly, the US/Soviets clumsily handled the Korean sovereignty issue, clearly Korea was still developing, clearly both Korean governments were not fully in control of their political futures, and clearly Korea was being influenced in a very serious way by US firms and government.

Just don't fall into the trap of believing that because South Korea "worked" (by becoming a prosperous nominal republic) that it could be a model for others or an example of the success of colonialism. South Korea and Japan (and Germany) got so much American investment, it's insane. These are strategically important countries that the US will not let out of its sphere of influence even if it must reduce the sovereignty of these nations.

>>2325729
>/his/ will defend this hack

>>2325965
Dude its 2017

>>2325962
>What's sad is how people are so willing to let gross misuse of power slide as long as its used against those they don't like or agree with. Fuck Americans. The country's ideals are too fucking good for its people.

this, they pay lip service to freedom, and they want it gone when it applies to people they don't like.

hence you get teabaggers who shout muh constitution leave muh christianity alone! wanting to ban muslims from practicing religion

>>2325729
Keep up the good fight, fellow McCarthy-Anon.

>>2325729
Friendly reminder to source your claims, even if you are right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_in_the_Venona_papers

>>2325874
Property is theft. Communism is self-defense.

>>2326991
Literally all the Venona papers did was confirm that there were Communist infiltrators, doesn't change the fact that McCarthy was just going around acccusing people without evidence to advance his own political career.

>>2330201
Nearly half of the names on the list are conjecture believed to have operated under codenames that aren't verifiable and the remaining names were mainly not the targets of McCarthy.

It proves that the claims of Soviet spies and assets in the States, but to a much lesser extent than claimed and that McCarthy's methods were largely inaccurate.

But the premise is correct. The Soviets had agents here just as we had agents there.

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>>2325729
>being an american pigdog
>nothing wrong

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>>2331782
I don't like communists at all but you can cherrypick shit like this all day. Pic related.

>>2325729
The CIA and FBI were working perfectly fine before he and his cronies and debased their efforts through their grandiloquent grandstanding and general idiocy. He turned a rational and concerted effort to flush out traitors into an ignorant witch-hunt.