Were the Crusades really the fault of Christians

>>2307618
>Get invaded by mudshits for thousands of years
>Say fuck that lets strike them in their house for once
>Thousands of years later your ancestors whine and complain that you likely saved them from invading savages

>>2307618
They were the fault of the byzantines for being so completely inept

>>2307618
hmm at this point muslims weren't actively invading so to call the motives an act of retribution is disingenuous. Though acts of violence towards pilgrims by muslims might also have been a motive.

It was rather initiated by the Pope by request of the Byzantines which he hoped would lead to unification of the churches.

>>2307649
They had always been expanding into southern Europe though, they had most of Iberia and slave raiding was pretty constant from what I understand.

Can you elaborate on what you meant by this?

>>2307689
Not him, but by 1095 the Muslim presence in France and Italy had basically been dealt with, Toledo had fallen and the Almoravids couldn't do much but stop the Spanish from expanding further than they already had, the Italian city-states were the more active pirates in the Mediterranean and actively raiding rather than being raided, and so on and so forth.

The Turks were invading Byzantium territory, so the byzantine Emporar, asked the pope for help.

>>2307618
What do you mean "fault"?
The turks were weak at the time, and so were the greeks, so westerner second sons went there to carve kingdoms for themselves.
Also something about god and sins, doesn't matter.

>>2308029
The Byzantine emperor asked for 400 mercenaries with crossbows to put on the walls, not for 200000 peasants to pillage his land and an army larger than his to occupy his capital.

The Byzantine emperor didn't realize how autistic the westerners were.

If the crusades were in the 2000s, the crusaders would have worn Naruto headbands.

>>2308060
Kek'd hard, ty anon

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>>2308029
It was a bit more complicated than that. The Turks had been serving within Byzantine territory for several decades by then, and rather than invading they were actually rebelling, declaring the cities they had been governing in the name of the ERE as independent beyliks from which they launched bandit/pirate raids. Unfortunately the two rebel Turks at Nicaea and Smyrna, although they weren't working together, effectively blockaded Constantinople from contact with most of Anatolia and threatened the richest lands of the empire since the Balkans had been devastated from Pecheneg and Norman invasions. It's only during the First Crusade that these rebel beyliks were steadily consolidated (with the emperor's own instigation even) into a unified sultanate.

>>2308052
Also not that simple. the emperor was fully expecting several thousand knights and sergeants, and had prepared to receive a massive host. It's only the People's Crusade, which arrived much earlier and without invitation, that was beyond their expectations. He fully expected to make use of the Barons however to march through the empire and pacify not only the Turkish rebels in Anatolia but several other rebels and pretenders along the way. What he did not expect was that Bohemund would manage to outmaneuver his other agents and allies and take Antioch not as a Byzantine vassal but an independent (and hostile) prince, which precipitated all the other princes abandoning the emperor's plan and marching south to both end their pilgrimage and either return home or carve out some more duchies for themselves.

>>2307618
Lebanese maronite catholic here, thanks for coming and helping us with the muslims. The maronites had been held up in the mountains of lebanon for 400 years and were more than happy to join the crusaders when they arrived. I would like to thank you europeans for helping the few christians that never gave up in the middle east.

Yes, clearly.
>>2307639
This is the same logic as the US invading Afghanistan after a group of Saudi Nationals attack New York

>>2307647

>>2307618
Byzantium really started them and then snadniggers kept breaking the peace treaties

>>2307618
>C*tholics

>>2308112
>80% of spain alone conquested by murdering hordes
>this is easily the same as 19 guys attacking on 9/11

>fault
You are talking like crusades were some bad thing

It was literally all Pope Urban II

>Byzantine begs for assistance, most likely in the form of mercenaries
>Urban preaches for a Crusade, something nobody had mentioned or brought up before him
>Creates the precedent for every Crusade afterwards

I guess that technically makes it the Christians fault but even that feels like an oversimplification

Byzantines are niggers who slaughtered whole Catholic population of Constantinople and got wrecked in return and ruined relations between East and West.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Latins

>>2308469
why fault? Isnt defending and reclaiming old christian territory righteous? Not even a christcuck myself

>>2308480

I am not an expert in Catholicism so please don't take my word for it, but essentially the idea of forced baptisms or that violence could be used against those for having a different faith was not a church position at the time.

The vast majority of the church supported this, but a small minority felt it was justified, so when Pope Urban II preached for this Crusade is fundamentally altered way Catholicism could operate, for better or worse

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>>2308060

>>2307639
You seem to be knowledged in history

>>2307647
No, that was the fault of traitorous Frankish and Norman mercenaries who deserted the army at Manzikert
>Catholics, not even once

>>2308052
You're confusing the people's crusade, the first crusade and the fourth crusade

>>2308265
if that was the prime motivation for the crusades, you'd think they'd have marched west.

>>2307618

No, they were the fault of Catholics. Middle Eastern Christians (ie the original ones) were doing fine and then tens of thousands of foreign Western European Catholics turn up and start killing them and carving out their own states

>>2308668
t.Mohamed the muslim that whisppered to little girls and goats

>>2308660
They did have a chance when Urban's predecessor offered a remission of sins for knights on an expedition to a Spain, but barely anyone showed up.

>>2308853
it's almost as if no one really gave a shit about "muslim aggression" and just wanted to create catholic kingdoms in the homeland of jesus.