Are there any practicing Muslims that post here? Besides the

>>2304997
I want to see this anime trinity shitposter in action. What exactly is the anime trinity?

>>2305001
A copy-paste anon that misinterprets scripture to support a nontrinitarian argument

>>2304997
I'm more or less an agnostic from a Muslim background, but have made studying Islamic history and theology a major hobby out of pure academic interest rather than faith.

They are to busy beheading the infidels

Yes, I try to pray about five times a day. I'm a Muslim.

>>2305010
That's kind of a big deal in islam, to portray Christians as polytheists. Islam is purportedly a movement against all polytheism.

>>2305010
you're the guy that said that misinterpreting scripture was anything that didn't lead you to the conclusion of current church doctrine

>>2305175
I don't participate in the threads.

Hi.

>>2304997
southeast asian muslim here, ama

Muslim from Morocco hi

>>2305367
What country specificity?

I believe there are a few, but none of them are bad except that one fucker that constantly posts anime and badly interpreted Biblical scripture

>>2305367
do you like spicy spaghetti

>>2304997
That guy is a faggot and I hate him with a passion

>>2305148
Why don't Muslims pray mentally? Am I mentally retarded for asking this?

>>2307234
>>2307268
malaysia

>>2304997

I hate all women, and love nothing more than murdering random people. So yes.

>>2308307

Are you sure you're not just an American?

>>2304997
posting from Kuwait currently.

>>2307385
We pray mentaly also

>>2307685
Duduk dekat mana?

>>2307685
Aku orang Terengganu

>>2311861
>>2311864
Fuck out to /int/ with this monkey babble

>>2311876
Ffs, I only made two post. TWO POST. And you go apeshit over this? Fine, /his/ got no chill.

>>2305019
>agnostic
Okay but do you believe in a god?
Theism/atheism is a yes/no propositin. A/gnosticsm is a different question.

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>>2304997
>>2305010
>>2305221
>>2307328
.....
Please, I never intend to make enemy. I only want to show you what your master really did say.

Can't you see? That your master said the COMPLETELY OPPOSITE with your Church teachings?

I respect the man, which is exactly why I want to spread his words.

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>>2307328
>>2307253
>>2305221
>>2305010
>>2304997
>misinterpret
What do you mean? Don't you know, that God is not the author of confusion? (1 Corinthians 14:33K)

Don't you know that Jesus words are not his own, but the Father in heaven(John 14:24)?

From this we can conclude that Jesus MEANT what is he saying. NOT AMBIGUOUSLY. Not what he said meant something else.

What makes you think that I misinterpret the Bible? I literally copypaste Jesus words.

What makes you think that YOU DON'T MISINTERPRET THE BIBLE?

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>>2304997
>>2305010
>>2305221
>>2307253
>>2307328
>anime
Is it because I post anime stuff? Is that why you hate me?

>copypaste
...You want me to re-write stuff all the time? Too much works.

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>>2304997
>>2305010
>>2305221
>>2307253
>>2307328
Where did I misinterpret it? Where did I take things out of context? Am I misquoting a verse?

TELL ME, refute me. I'm happy to accept any civilized argument.

PLEASE, take my argument into consideration. Please refute me.

Are you Jesus's sheeps? Cause Jesus's sheep listen to his voice.

Let's be friends. Ok?

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Oh, is there anything you don't agree with my past arguments? Be a man and day it to my face, please.

I'm happy to give (You)s.

>>2312092
*say it

>>2305148
Visited Palestine for a bit in December. What would you say to the statement, "A good Muslim is a bad Muslim?"

PS, incase you know, why don't Arabs care about the environment?

>>2305019
>agnostic from a Muslim background
PhD in Islamic history here and I can safely say that there is no such thing.

Either you and your family have converted to some religion (sect of Muhammad is hardly a religion), you're fleeing from your immident family (milking some Western country maybe) or you've lost your head.

>>2305019
I'm kind of an agnostic too I guess, from a Muslim family. I believe in God but I don't believe in any religion at the particular moment. I'd too like to study Islamic history and theology. What do you suggest?

>>2312257
Except none of us are converts, we regularly visit with family abroad, and I'm quite sane and functional. And though we live in the West, we do so in the middle of a large expatriate community surrounded by several mosques and Islamic organizations that we regularly attend and for which I still volunteer occasionally. It's not such an uncommon thing. A supposed PhD in Islamic history doesn't qualify you to make that kind of statement.

>>2305019
>>2312619
>agnostic
Which part of Islam do you anons find hard to accept? Maybe I can help?

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>>2312619
If you can't yet read Arabic, I suggest Arberry's translation of the Quran, then pick up some recent historians like Jonathan Brown and Fred Donner for an intro to modern study of early Islam. The trick is to separate Islam's history from its theology to understand how they intersected and influenced each other, rather than take the theological view of Islam's history at face value.

>>2312637
For me, the existence of God Himself as an active, divine agent. It's not the kind of thing anyone can help with, mostly because I don't strongly care one way or the other if He does exist. I could see myself as a deist before either a staunch atheist or theist - let alone specifically Muslim.

>>2312637
I tend to disagree with quite a lot of miniscule things. There's the view on homosexuality, there's polygamy, but that's just prevalent in all religions, nothing to do with Islam. And I really don't pray five times a day, so really can't call myself Muslim either.
>>2312658
Thanks for the rec.

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>>2312670
Oh, I really need to make an atheist thread soon.

Anyway, please ctrl+f "islam (1/2)" "islam (2/2)" in >>2309853

Also, read this website for more Quran Miracle:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

REMEMBER, Prophet Muhammad was an unlettered man in an unlettered community. Yet somehow he managed to accurately describes science phenomenon that was only recently discovered.

Can an unlettered man know all of this? NEVER. Only God can made this possible by telling him all of these.

Anyway, just read the link and decide for yourself whether the Quran is the work of a man or the work of God.

>>2312724
I appreciate your concern and all, but I've been knee deep in Islamic apologetics for decades. They're as silly to me as any Baptist chain letter I've come across. It's more complicated than the choice between whether the Quran and Islam itself is the work of Man or God.

>>2312066
>>2312073
>>2312081
You're cool in my book, for what it's worth

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>>2312722
>polygamy
At 2010 in America, there's about 5.2 million surplus women. If all of the male American got married, then there are still 5.2 million women who won't get married.

And we all know it is impossible. 90% of jail population are males. Many people in New York are gays.

What're going to do with that +5.2 million unmarried women? The only answer is polygamy.

70% of men cheat on their wives, which is a very unhealthy practice. And polygamy can help to reduce the percentage.

>FOR THE WOMEN
To provide protection for women, help widows to raise her kids(orphans), to prevent women from loosely having multiple sex with different patners(huge STDs risk), from literally going to the dogs, from engaging homosexuality.

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>>2312722
>homosexuality
Read pic related

>"Normal community can also contract STDs"
Yes, but the percentage of infected in homosexual community is way way way higher than the normal community.

>so?
You want them to get hurt? No.

STDs can also spread to normal society as well. In other ways than sex. Like sharing saliva in drinks for example.

>freedom?
It's also freedom for the white man to shoot kids at school.

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>>2312748
Yes, I'm aware that there's argument against the scientific and historical facts of the Quran.

BUT, there's also rebuttal against such arguments. The links usually have the rebuttal.

http://www.islamawareness.net
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

Remember, Prophet Muhammad was unlearned man. The Arabs at that time were worst than animals. But, in the midst of all that, somehow an unlearned man (He is yet the author of a book) manage to produce a book of law, stories of the past and future and accurately describe scientific phenomena that only being RECENTLY discovered. And the was revealed 1400 years ago.

Look man, read the link in >>2312724 if you have free time. If there's an argument against scientific miracles of the Quran. Just google "rebuttal against such argument".

Believe in the heart of the cards.

>>2312860
*the Quran was revealed

>>2312778
Polygamy might have been a good solution in the past, but women have become more independent recently. I don't have much against it, but most men aren't fit for polygamous relationships like the Prophet was imo.
>>2312802
I think all this wouldn't have happened if so much issue hadn't been made out of one's sexual orientation, and if they were treated as normal as the heterosexuals from the first place.

Thank you for posting a bunch of facts about this though. I'm not from the US but looks like it's pretty crazy there.

>>2312871
>past
5.2 million are independent? Without any problem? Highly unlikely.

>homosexuality orientation
"Being born gay" is NOT supported by science.

Also, the statistics doesn't lie. Homosexual has caused MANY to suffer from STDs. STDs is not a common cold, but life-threatening disease.

Do you wanna allow STDs to spread? Of course no.

>>2312754
Thanks anon. You're the MVP.

>>2312860
>Yes, I'm aware that there's argument against the scientific and historical facts of the Quran.

I'm not talking about similarly silly polemics either, but how our ancestors were not cavemen that such insights into the natural world were completely unknown until either the Quran or modern science. The whole debate is rather insulting pseudoscience and pseudohistory on both sides, which is why I washed my hands of it years ago when I began to seriously study history.

>>2312974
Example:
>The embryology in the Quran plagiarize Hippocrates works?

Here:
https://islampapers.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology.pdf

In the conclusion, it says that the Quran is completely different from Hippocrates works. Thus not the Quran doesn't plagiarize.

>not completely unknown
But there's also phenomenon that are totally unknown before the Quran was revealed.

>>2313052
*thus the

>>2313052
How is that a response? I didn't say anything about plagiarism.

Is trumps idea to ban entry to and posibly deport people from certain areas of the world but not all the places needed retarded?

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>>2312066
kek I feel like stupid taking an argument from an anon who posts anime pictures but that's a good point.
Thanks anon.

>>2304997
There's also the turkposter(s), I always assumed he's (/they were) muslim.

>>2304997
Guess that's me. What up.

>>2305019
>keeps the fuse lit
What is gonna be your trigger?

>>2313955
>keeps the fuse lit
???

>>2312860
Once you strip out the vague poetry, very few of the "scientific miracles" actually hold up to scrutiny. The thing about mountains for example is only superficially true, in that mountains do extend into the earth rather than just jutting out directly from the surface. Mountain roots don't "peg" the mountain into the surrounding environment any more than the part of a glacier that goes underwater "peg"s it to the sea.

And anyway, the fact that mountains extend into the earth would be known to anyone who had to dig into one, and might be the sort of thing someone traveling in wealthy merchant circles would hear about.

>>2313104
>>2312974
>not cavemen that such insights into the natural world were completely unknown until either the Quran or modern science.
From what I understand from your statement, you're saying that Prophet Muhammad plagiarized from past people works? Anyway, sorry if I misunderstood, the "embryology plagiarism" is just an example of the Quran "plagiarizing" past people works, which is NOT the case.

>>2313742
See? Not all /a/ are completely useless piece of trash. Thanks anon, you're the MVP.

>>2304997
From Malaysia

>>2314532
>From what I understand from your statement, you're saying that Prophet Muhammad plagiarized from past people works?

No. I'm saying the whole 'scientific miracle' argument is predicated on the assumption that people of the Near East, one of the oldest places in the world, were a bunch of stone age savages who couldn't possibly be smarter than we give them credit for. It's the same kind of thought that makes people think Ancient Egyptians had to have Ancient Alien help in building the Great Pyramids of Giza, because obviously they were too dumb to ever do it themselves.

The natural observations in the Quran should not be taken as some kind of miracle predicting knowledge that would be made clear to us today (which is highly convenient for those making these claims today). It cheapens both the Quran and Middle Eastern history as a whole, let alone the very concept of an All Powerful God who is apparently not above the kind of human autism that makes us naturally search for patterns and connections no matter whether we're scouring the Old Testament for signs of Jesus that were never there, the Quran for science that would only be relevant in a specific century of human history and otherwise ignored and worthless to the millions of Muslims that died earlier and would die from now on, and everything Kojima says and does looking for some master ruse in store for Metal Gear.

I understand that for many this is the height of faith, but it's this exact sort of Lèse-majesté that made me stop caring in the first place.

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>>2312066
keep the cristfags ass blasted my friend

>>2305019
Fucking munafik. Just go full atheist and fuck off. You are the boil that festers in a muslim community

Malay muslim here represent.

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>>2314723
>assumption
No, it's not. The Arabs in pre-Islamic period is worse than animals, drunkard, married their stepmothers and buried their daughter alive. In the whole Arabia, only a little more than a dozen can read or write. Basically a savage people, who only focus on literature, NOT science.

There are times when the knowledge is lost from civilization, dark ages for examples. IE the age where people don't know past knowledge. Same for the Pre-Islam Arabs.

Here, there are some non-Muslim historians quote regarding the Pre-Islam period:
https://www.al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/arabia-islam

>natural observation
What do you mean? Not all are observation. I live near the sea and never knew that salt and fresh water CANNOT mixed. The semen production(NOT SPERM) is in the seminal vehicles, not from the balls. The semen is "gushing fluid" mention in the Quran. Never said it was produce from the kidney. This anon >>2314216.

And many more examples of non-natural observation miracles. All of them are accurate.

From a savage brute community? Highly unlikely.

>>2314951
It's this type of mentality why I hate most of the Muslim. Fuck you in particular. Useless rubbish, keep pushing them away.

>>2315018
>All of them are accurate
Did you read my post? I explained why it was specifically not accurate. If the explanation had used glaciers, boats, or any other example of a less dense object "floating" in a denser medium, that would be accurate. As it stands right now, it actually looks much more like someone who had heard about people's experiences in mining, and someone in the merchant class like Muhammed would be very likely to hear something like that about the neighboring empires. It is very specifically not accurate, and evidence against divine revelation.

>>2314906
Never my intention to win arguments. 1/3 of the Quran told the Muslim to tell the Jews and Christians to talk to them.

Willing to die for Islam? When you don't even open your mouth?

Talk to them. Deedat videos is a good place to starts.

>>2315018
This is the sort of blind pseudohistory I'm talking about. We're not speaking of a uncontacted Amazonian tribe, but a people who had regular contact with the likes of Babylon, Egypt, Rome, and Persia, who spoke of vanished cities in the sand and were capable of sites like Petra. That they were somewhat brutal or disorganized politically is not the same thing as them being so cut off from civilization that simple word of mouth traditions, stories, and myths containing some kernel of scientific or moral insight couldn't enter their society. After all, Christianity did.

>There are times when the knowledge is lost from civilization, dark ages for examples. IE the age where people don't know past knowledge. Same for the Pre-Islam Arabs.

Most people in history were unaware of how much history has been lost. That didn't stop them from carrying on ancient traditions and stories that survived things like the Bronze Age collapse or Justinian's Plague. We call these times a dark age because we ourselves have so few primary sources. The people of the time however had fairly elaborate oral histories. Again, these are Near Easterners with thousands of years of history behind them and all around them. Muhammad even mentions it in the ruins his audience supposedly walked past daily in the Quran.

Which brings me to another point. If these were at all intentionally miraculous and prophetic tidbits of science, they were delivered in a way that was not revelation but recollection, as if the Arab listeners already knew these things and were just given a fresh perspective and meaning for these observations. And long after, no Arab reading the Quran ever stopped to think that they were reading some divinely guided science that they had never known before.

Equally suspicious, this kind of apologetic didn't exist until European conquest and Muslim immigration to the West, which was a culture already given to this sort of criticism of the Old Testament for prophesies.

>>2315103
>1/3 of the Quran told the Muslim to tell the Jews and Christians to talk to them.
That is kind of a dick move, though. Those who didn't hear have an excuse, and those who did have "no excuse" and a way worse punishment on the last day, right? So if someone finds your argument unconvincing, from your perspective you've damned them even harder than they were before. In fact, how many souls have you worsened the punishment of on this very board, for saying something not perfectly well thought out? In this very thread?

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>>2312658
Where does this fit on there?

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>>2312092
>>2312081
>>2312073
>>2312066
>>2312058
that's a /v/ shitposter. in case anyone wanted to know. clearly the typical image set of a kid from /v/.

t. veteran animeposter

>>2315111
This x100 studing histiography and comparative religion is what drove me to agnosticism

>>2315174
Don't know, haven't heard of or read it, seems new.

>>2315081
Regarding mountain, the Quran said they move like clouds. Here:

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_26.html

No sane man would said that, agree? For me, it's accurate enough, it's not vague. It's a matter of perspective.

Also, even if it from a mining circle, how do they even know that the mountain move like clouds? From just the vibration(not sure whether the Arabia have earthquakes)?

>>2315185
Bullshit, I've got at least one million (You)s just from shitposting alone on not just only /v/, but on /a/ and /vp/ also. I'm at least more veteran than you.

>>2315240
>"bullshit!"
>proceeds to explain how he's a /v/ shitposter
go play lol or cs or some trash game with your 17 yo friends while livestreaming.

>>2315230
>For me, it's accurate enough, it's not vague.
And that is why the websites you're posting have things like "mountains echo, therefore the Quran predicts radio towers." For it to be a miracle, you either would need specific explanations of mechanisms or specific analogies that betray a fundamental understanding. With vagueries you can make anything be about anything, like the people who read the bible close enough that they said it predicted Barrack Obama being the antichrist.

"Going past like clouds" is not a specific explanation, unless "going past" is some specific untranslatable Arabic word. And regardless, the mountain itself is plenty solid, it is the fact that it is floating in a less dense medium that is the point.

>>2315117
What do you mean I damned them than ever before? I tried to use the most efficient way to talk to them. I'm doing the best I can, according to my capacity.

Even the Arabs wants to kill Prophet Muhammad for delivering his message. Did he damned them? Did Abraham damned his own father for delivering the message? No, of course not. They just delivering the message, with wisdom. As should all the Muslim do, according to their capacity.

>those who didn't hear have an excuse
Aren't Islam told us to study and understand the Quran? I believe that recitation gave you rewards. But what about the message? The Quran told us to talk to them. Talk to them.

>>2315264
Who watched people plays game?

>>2315273
How about "haman" in my post in >>2309853 ? Just ctrl f haman in that thread.

>>2315274
>What do you mean I damned them than ever before?
Those who have never heard are judged more harshly (with less mercy) than those who have heard and did not believe, who are specifically "without excuse." Essentially, by you speaking about Islam, at all, and exposing people to it, you are either converting them or are ensuring their punishment will be even worse on The Last Day.

>The Quran told us to talk to them. Talk to them.
And talking to people damns them unless you are immediately perfectly convincing.

>>2315290
So you just want to keep quiet about it? The Prophet told us to spread his words, even one word.

We got to do it with wisdom. But it's impossible to satisfy all people. Proof? Even Abraham, the Vanguard of Islam, can't even satisfy his own father? Can we do better job than him? Never in a million years.

We got to spread the Prophet message, even one words. Talk about hygiene, ablution, or something that you know about Islam. Talk man, talk.

>>2315286
a) Not a scientific miracle.
b) Half the supposed miracle comes from the idea already debunked by >>2315111 where Arabia was somehow completely isolated from every other civilization and never had any contact with them or any cultural exchange. A name like that could quite easily be passed down in folklore, not requiring any literary tradition, and that is even ignoring the fact that as a wealthy merchant Muhammed would be in a prime position to make contact with neighboring civilizations for the purpose of trade, regardless of his personal level of literacy.
c) The Haman mentioned in your link was apparently alive in the New Kingdom, which is nowhere near the time of the pyramids. You would also need to prove specifically which NK Pharaoh was the pharaoh of Exodus, show evidence of the baked brick tower structure, etc. Just saying that at one point in Egypt's thousands of years of history, one quarry foreman was named Haman is not actually evidence.

>>2315314
Actually, it seems like I may have mistook you for someone else who was claiming the Exodus occurred during the time of the pyramids. Disregard that part. But the Haman in the Quran is instructed to build a baked mudbrick structure, whereas the archeological Haman was the head of a quarry, which are very different things.

>>2315314
>>2315329
>>2315111
I'll be back. I'm tired. Sorry anons.

Regarding haman, here's some rebuttal against the argument:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/haman.html
http://www.islamawareness.net/FAQ/haman.html

Again, sorry. I'm spent.

>>2315018
But drunkeness, incest, and horrific killing of women are all things that happen in Saudi Arabia today, my goat-fucking friend.

What is the oldest known Koran? What evidence exists that it was actually written during or immediately after Mohammed's lifetime?

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>>2315314
>>2315111
>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(1/4)

(1)Prophet Muhammad is unlearned man in an unlearned community

(2)He is yet an author of book, but somehow he managed to produced a book of law, poems, science, history all in one?

(3)ONLY a dozen people in whole Arabia are learned at that time

(4)Only 3 trade trips were accredited to him

(5)The Bible is authored by 40 people. Paul, the most learned Christians, only made no more than 28% of the NT(not including OT). The Quran, if Muhammad really did make it, the illiterate he is, IS A ONE MAN JOB.

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>>2315111
>>2315314
>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(2/4)

(6)He is not a poet, but somehow he managed to produce the most important work (in terms of literary merits) in the whole of Arabic literature?

(7)Ancient works are not free from error. The Prophet somehow managed(if he really did have access to ancient works) to know which is true and which is wrong? Not only that,

(8)He somehow managed to make a book with OVERWHELMING scientific verse? Some are completely unknown to past people? Here:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm

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>>2315111
>>2315314
>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(3/4)

(9)The Prophet only recite the Quran but never wrote it down, agree? Yet he somehow managed to keep track of the numerical facts about the Quran? Somehow managed to mention "angels and demon", "paradise and hell", MANY MORE, repeated same number of times, "Day" was mentioned 365 times, "land to sea" 13:32 times, same ratio as land to sea on earth? And MANY MORE. He somehow managed to keep track of all of this?

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_17.html
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_01.html

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>>2315314
>>2315111
>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(4/4)

(10)He is illiterate

Also see http://ilmfeed.com/10-reasons-muhammad-ﷺ-could-not-have-authored-the-quran/

Anons look, just put the apologetic things aside for now, read the links and decide for yourself whether or not Muhammad is the author of the Quran.

Just read man

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Yup, that's it. I'm tired as all hell. I may or may not be back. But I will take (You)s into consideration, if there's any that is.

>>2316678
>(1)Prophet Muhammad is unlearned man in an unlearned community
Repeating this over and over does not make it a compelling argument. Pre-Islamic Arabia is propagandized as complete Jahiliyyah,but looking at it from an outside perspective they almost certainly would have had contact with outside civilizations. It's a founding myth with dubious accuracy, not unlike the Exodus account for the establishment of Israel while according to archaeology the reality was much different. Of course, Islam is notoriously iconoclastic, so a lot of good evidence was destroyed, but what we can reconstruct doesn't really support this propagandist view.

>(2)He is yet an author of book, but somehow he managed to produced a book of law, poems, science, history all in one?
Yes, given the sources he would have had access to as a baseline. The Torah and New Testament were already in existence, and actually reading the Quran much of it involves either a whitewashed/edited retread of this or warnings against the fire.

>(3)ONLY a dozen people in whole Arabia are learned at that time
Even if this were true, oral tradition was incredibly important back in the day and a much more standard way of recording and transmitting information.

>(4)Only 3 trade trips were accredited to him
Even if this were true, he doesn't actually have had to travel overland to be exposed to ideas, he just needs to have contact with others who did, or contact with people who had contact, etc. Think the Silk Road,

>>2317004
where merchants mostly traveled back and forth around one central location rather than traversing the entire length themselves, yet there was exchange of goods, ideas, disease etc.

>(5)The Bible is authored by 40 people. Paul, the most learned Christians, only made no more than 28% of the NT(not including OT). The Quran, if Muhammad really did make it, the illiterate he is, IS A ONE MAN JOB.
Again, illiteracy is not actually an obstacle here. Whoever the original Homer was, if they existed, would have also likely been illiterate. The Oral Torah was oral. And the Quran is shorter and has significant basis in other texts.

>(6)He is not a poet, but somehow he managed to produce the most important work (in terms of literary merits) in the whole of Arabic literature?
If he wrote poetry, he is by definition a poet. This is a bit like saying Beethoven wasn't a composer despite producing compositions of high merit. If you're saying he had no formal education in poetry, that's a separate conversation. I would also guess that priming has something to do with this too. If you are brought up to believe that the Quran is a poetic miracle, you are primed to judge it as so regardless of its actual quality.

>7)Ancient works are not free from error. The Prophet somehow managed(if he really did have access to ancient works) to know which is true and which is wrong?
He didn't. For example, he continued to tell the story of Solomon and the Exodus despite the lack of archeological

>>2317036
evidence for Solomon's kingdom or the Hebrew captivity/journey across the Sinai.

>(9)The Prophet only recite the Quran but never wrote it down, agree? Yet he somehow managed to keep track of the numerical facts about the Quran? Somehow managed to mention "angels and demon", "paradise and hell", MANY MORE, repeated same number of times, "Day" was mentioned 365 times, "land to sea" 13:32 times, same ratio as land to sea on earth? And MANY MORE. He somehow managed to keep track of all of this?
No, people primed to assume there are miracles in the Quran go looking for them and are able to construct them. It's not unlike looking for "prophecies" in The Bible Code by manipulating the data or a student ginning up meaning in a poem to complete a close-reading essay the night before it is due. The sources you are using present examples such as "it describes mountains echoing, therefore the Quran predicted radio towers" as miracles. If you go looking that deep for meaning, you'll find it anywhere you look.

>(10)He is illiterate
Again, not actually relevant, oral tradition was important.

This is why I'm Unitarian btw

>muh nicene creed
>much heresy

Face it trinitarians can't compete with the big Servetus cock

>>2311898
Don't forget, this is 4chan.

>>2316678
>>2316684
>>2316689
>>2316699

Anime anon why are you just copy pasting arguments that dont deal with that other guys argument?

Just demonstrate the Arabs were isolated and ignorant barbarians with no oral knowledge or understanding of foreign ideas and youll beat him.

>>2317047
Nowhere does the Quran said that "mountain vibrate thus prove radio wave".

Besides, that mountain verse, it said that "mountain pass like clouds". From my English understanding, the Quran said mountain move.

Which no sane would say 1400 years ago. Regarding "mining circle", how does a worker at a mine could possibly come into conclusion that mountain move?

>>2319383
*no sane man

>>2317004
What do you mean by "oral was important"? Are you saying that the Arabs talks about Greek works in the market or something? The only thing that they boasting is literally their language, not science. They're literally barbarian, I doubt the Arabs even care about science.

Only 3 trips are accredited to Muhammad, you think 3 trips is enough for grasping all Greeks works?

>>2319737
>>2317004
You also got to take into account human limited memory also

>>2319737
>Only 3 trips are accredited to Muhammad, you think 3 trips is enough for grasping all Greeks works?
What makes you think all knowledge comes from a handful of Greek texts? These are simply what has survived long enough to reach us in the present.

This is what the anons from before were talking about: all these supposed Biblical/Quranic miracles and Ancient Alien conspiracies all revolve around exploiting an ignorance of history.

>>2319754
>the ignorance of history
You mean like these are all human imagination about not-so-fully-grasp on ancient history?

>>2319770
You may have you reword that because I have no idea what you just said.

>>2317036
>poet
The people of Mecca see he's growing up with their own eyes. Muhammad never have a reputation of a poet.

These are Arabs we're talking about, people that take his language literature way too seriously.

But one day, out of nowhere, Muhammad suddenly bust out the most elegant literature that even beat a veteran in his own field?

>>2319788
I mean these are all human imagination?

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>>2319798
>I mean these are all human imagination?

>>2319801
>>2319754
>all these supposed Biblical/Quranic miracles and Ancient Alien conspiracies all revolve around exploiting an ignorance of history.
Fine, what do you mean by this statement?

>>2319801
Fine sorry for my poor English understanding, I'm not a history student. I'm a math student.

>>2317047
Are you saying all of the astounding numerical facts about the Quran are just coincidence? Look, if it only two or three of these in a single book, I can agree with you that it is all coincidence.

But many coincidences? In a book without single grammar mistake? Of the highest literary merits? I have to disagree.

>>2319813
He means these miracles are only miracles if you assume a lot of things about historical societies that greatly exaggerate both how primitive they were and how advanced the religious/archaeological artifact was for its time.

It'd be like future historians looking at CERN and concluding it must have been built by aliens or God himself since the only text concerning atomic and particle theory that survived the future World Wars was Japanese 200 years from now.

>>2312058
Stop blaspheming Jesus Christ you fucking faggot

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>>2320134
Oh, but I doubt the people at that time have access to Greek works. Only very few are learned and I doubt the Arabs even care about those kind of things.

I even doubt that past people or mine workers even know that mountain move. Or that metal came from space, just like the Quran said:

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_30.html

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>>2320146
I'm blaspheming Jesus? Am I using my words to prove my case? No, I'm using Jesus OWN words.

You said Jesus is equal with the Father. Jesus said:

John 14:28 ►
...the Father is greater than I

You said Jesus is God. Jesus said:

Luke 18:19
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

If Jesus HIMSELF even denied being good, then why do you people call him a God? For ONLY God is good.

You said Jesus is God, when he is man and the Son of man. The Bible said:

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man...neither the son of man...

Look, Jesus said all of these, not me. Why should other people said about him matters more? You're his sheep, aren't you? Listen to him.

Anyway, are there any of my past posts do you disagree with? I'm happy to accept any civilized argument.

>>2320307
>>2320146
*correction*
Numbers 23:19 is not Jesus words. But it's in the Bible. Sorry about that.

I'm also muslim.

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>>2317036
>>2317047
I got no clue about "Hebrew captivity/journey across the Sinai". Are you saying that the Prophet got things mixep up? If yes, maybe this is what you're looking for? Here:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/paran.htm

>Solomon
Wasn't there's Solomon artifacts that prove Solomon kingdom exist?

Here's an article about Quran and archeology:
https://idosi.org/wjihc/wjihc1(3)11/7.pdf

>>2319383
>Nowhere does the Quran said that "mountain vibrate thus prove radio wave".
I know it doesn't. I'm glad you agree, because then you agree that the "miracles" described in the sources you posted are big stretches of the imagination. The one I am referrring to is http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_92.html specifically, but a lot of the other miracles are similar stretches.

>From my English understanding, the Quran said mountain move.
That isn't a specific explanation of the actual mechanism, and thus not a scientific "miracle." For example, does it mean physical passing by each other or does it mean to pass away, like Christians thought the earth would at the end of days? And regardless, the only similarity between cloud formation and mountain formation is that it involves collision of two opposing fronts of different density, but that is specifically not "passing" each other, it is the exact opposite. Again, vague poetry that can be fit into a scientific explanation is not a miracle of anything other than human ingenuity.

>Which no sane would say 1400 years ago.
Sure they would, same as a sane person 2000 years ago might say that the sky would be "rolled up". It's poetic imagery describing the power of a deity, it's all fair game.

>how does a worker at a mine could possibly come into conclusion that mountain move?
They don't. The worker at the mine concludes that a mountain extends deeper into the earth than the overlying sedimentary rock directly adjacent, thus the Quranic comment about "mountains being held by pegs." But it isn't pegs, it's essentially floating the way a glacier or boat might. Verses explaining that mountains are essentially buoyant objects floating in the mantle would be much more convincing as miracles, especially if they provided equations or figures for the density values involved etc. As it stands now, we have a much vaguer statement that can be reinterpreted in the light of scientific understanding, but no miracle.

>>2319737
>Are you saying that the Arabs talks about Greek works in the market or something?
An oral tradition is a set of information passed from one generation to the next through oral recitation. Google and Wikipedia will be able to explain it better than I can. But it was used to transmit portions of the Torah, to transmit the stories of the Trojan war, etc. These were transmitted through memorization and speech from generation to generation long before they were ever written down. An oral tradition was common in many cultures with and without literacy, and not something you can dismiss just by continuing to call the pre-Islamic Arabs barbarians.

>You also got to take into account human limited memory also
Sure, but human memory is much less limited than you think it is. Again, going back to Homer, the bards would have had to memorize huge amounts of information in order to perform, and they did. Or memorizing the Oral Torah.

>Only 3 trips are accredited to Muhammad, you think 3 trips is enough for grasping all Greeks works?
Did he only make three business deals in his entire life? Did he only ever talk to three other merchants and nobody else, ever? Because again with the example of the Silk Road you don't need to travel far to be exposed to far-off ideas so long as you travel within the right circles.

>>2319791
>But one day, out of nowhere, Muhammad suddenly bust out the most elegant literature that even beat a veteran in his own field?
Again, I think a big portion of this is just priming. If you have an overwhelming cultural expectation that the Quran is the ultimate, incomparable example of poetry, you will be more likely to perceive it as such (especially if disagreeing would cause others to perceive you as a kuffar). Human psychology is funny like that.

>>2320052
>Are you saying all of the astounding numerical facts about the Quran are just coincidence?
No, I'm saying that it is easy to read information into an existing text if you have a certain specific goal to do so. Again, you can do something similar with any text (I think there is a Bible Code style thing that works with Harry Potter of all things) and get results. And if it was actually a miracle and not just an after-the-fact interpolation, you wouldn't need to round for example the land/ocean ratio to make it work, because it would give an exact figure. Once you have the information of how much of the world is covered by water, then you can go back and fit that information into the Quran, but a miracle should have gone in the opposite direction, where details about the New World were predicted based on Quranic information.

>>2320260
For one thing, the usage of meteoric iron extends back to at least the Babylonians. Secondly, just claiming again and again that the inhabitants of pre-Islamic Arabia were complete morons who didn't understand anything about anything probably works well within the context of people who already believe the religious propaganda but not so much elsewhere. Thirdly, for this to be of interest at all we would need to have a catalogue of every time "sent down" is used in the Quran at all, and every single time it must mean "fell onto the earth" and not anything else, otherwise again using vague language is being read into. And finally, every single element heavier than iron is also created in supernovas, so that "miracle" is incredibly non-specific.

>>2320393
There is no archeological evidence for the Hebrews as a whole being captive as slaves in Egypt or of the Exodus in general. There is no archeological evidence for Solomon's kingdom either. The link you provided mostly talks about a conspiracy by the Saudis to suppress the true route of the Exodus, but the fact remains that we have no evidence of the Hebrews being captive in Egypt in the first place, nor do we have the tell-tale signs of a cover up. Even if they tried to falsify records, somehow managed to eliminate every single trace of Hebrew culture etc, we should still see the economic effects of a significant percentage of the workforce suddenly vanishing.

>>2305148
+1

>>2308307
redneck?

>>2312169
do chinese or idians?
did anyone else some decades ago?

>>2312257
do they sell PhDs in the balkans yet

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>>2320421
Mantle are like molasses, which is hard but it behave like liquid over long time period, like dripping.

>passing
I think it's like how ice float on water, by "passing" through water molecules. IIRC mountain float on mantle. Thus, they "move" through earth mantles over time. Just like how clouds "float" through air.

>pegs
In pic related, mountains seems to have "underlying roots" embedded in earth, several times more than their elevation parts. Like a "pegs". This apparently seems to stabilize the Earth, that is NOT causing it to have earthquake every minute of our life, due to Co See:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/function_of_mountains.htm

https://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-b.htm#footnote5

Again, in short time period, the mantle acts like solid.

>>2320715
*coriolis effect

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>>2320452
>trips
Yes, only 3 trips accredited to him in his lifetime.

>information
Yes, agree. It's the primary, if not, the only way to transmit information.

But I'm still skeptical that the merchants talk about Greek works during their free times. And to top it, memorize it.

>greek works
I can only think two "greek works" that may added to the Quran, "embryology" and "life from water". For embryology, see >>2313052.

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>>2320489
>priming
I don't think so. If Muhammad really does that, then surely he wants himself to look big.

If that is the case, why would he tell his people that his cowardly ran home to his wife after his first revelation? I could never tell anyone that.

Why did his names mentioned way less than Jesus or Moses in the Quran?

Why would he honor a Jewish woman(Mary) rather than his own mother or daughter?

Look, the Arabs see his growth with their own eyes, like their own child. Every move he would make, they know it beforehand. He NEVER deserved to be called poet.

But when the Quran is revealed to him, and he recite the Quran among his people. You know what they call it? Witchcraft. Why? Because the Quran literature is so high above, the people couldn't perceive it as any other than a sorcery.

There's a story about a veteran poet challenge Muhammad in poetry contest, the veteran lost and accuse Muhammad for witchcraft.

Nouman Ali elaborate this on his lecture. Forget which one. He's a very very very good talker.

>>2321008
*honor a Jewish woman by naming a chapter of the Quran after her

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>>2320489
>Bible Code
You mean like if you assigned every letter with certain numbers, take a person name, add all the number up, if it's equal to 666, he's a demon? That kind of stuff? But the link provided is not like that.

>Hary Potter
Yes, I know what you're talking about. I watched Vsauce(I fucking hope Vsauce is not a meme).

Anyway, again, even if you're looking for it, if it just three or five coincidences, I would agree with you. But the coincidences are way too many to be just a mere "coincidences".

>land to ocean ratio
It's amazingly too good to be true.

>>2314951
>muslim community
Pretty cancerous by itself

>>2320489
>>2321008
Anyway, my point is, it's impossible to do something TOO incredible without getting your feet wet first.

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>>2320514
>Solomon Artifacts
>Hebrew being captive
Maybe it's not discovered yet? But that doesn't mean that Solomon Kingdom doesn't exist. Only not discovered yet.

There are however archeology evidence that line up with the Quran. If you ctrl f "8- Archeology and History" in:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm

I haven't read it yet, but the link seems to have archeological proof regarding the "Elephant Army during the Elephant Year". Here:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/elephants_story_and_protection_of_mecca.htm

Also, this link claim to discovered King David artifacts:
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/the-tel-dan-inscription-the-first-historical-evidence-of-the-king-david-bible-story/

>>2321260
>>2320514
The first link provides some archeological evidence that line up with the Quran.

>>2320746
>But I'm still skeptical that the merchants talk about Greek works during their free times. And to top it, memorize it.
Again, what makes you think they were talking about Greek works, and not just speaking of common knowledge that had already permeated society? It could have even changed, which would account for discrepancies between what oral traditions reached the Greeks to be written down and what stayed in the Near East. That's what I mean by 'ignorance of history.' You assume that because we only know something from a Greek text that everyone else must have had access to that exact text to know the same information.

>>2321008
>I don't think so. If Muhammad really does that, then surely he wants himself to look big.
The other anon was saying YOU were being primed from an early age to believe such things, not Muhammad or his audience. I have no issues with Muhammad, the early Arabs, or their history. It's why I enjoy studying them as much as I do. The problem here is you and your interpretation, and frankly exaggeration, of their stories that don't hold up to scrutiny.

>>2320715
>Thus, they "move" through earth mantles over time. Just like how clouds "float" through air.
Mountains move through the mantle vertically as they try to find equilibrium and rock burden is either added or removed, which very unlike clouds, or move vertically as they are further compressed/there is crustal deformation during continent collision which is unlike clouds, or they move horizontally through the mantle like every single other portion of the plate and singling out mountains make no sense.

>In pic related, mountains seems to have "underlying roots" embedded in earth, several times more than their elevation parts. Like a "pegs". This apparently seems to stabilize the Earth, that is NOT causing it to have earthquake every minute of our life, due to Co See:
Yes, it looks like a peg, but does not act like one, which is the problem. The plates are in constant motion EXCEPT for when they lock, and it is the locking by friction that causes earthquakes to occur by storing up energy due to the attempted motion that isn't happening. If mountain roots worked the way you said, they would actually cause earthquakes.

>>2320746
Did he only make three business deals? Because, again, even without travel, being in the right circle of people would exposed him to these ideas anyway. The legends and idea of Hercules, for example, traveled from the Mediterranean all the way to East Asia through these sorts of contacts. This also shows it doesn't necessarily need to be specific works, only general understanding/knowledge.

>>2321008
>I don't think so. If Muhammad really does that, then surely he wants himself to look big.
You misunderstand. It's a cultural thing that causes the Quran to be interpreted as a miracle of poetry, because that is what is expected and deviation from believing it is considered unbelief, which has serious consequences.

>cowardly, Moses/Jesus/Mary
This is a common objection Muslims raise in defense of Muhammed, saying nobody ever gives credit or refers back to the past if they are establishing something new for themselves. But we have seen this sort of thing. When Joseph Smith established Mormonism, he did so in the already existing context of Christianity and legitimized himself with past precedent. Christianity attempted to legitimize itself by referring back to Judaism, when Octavian became the Roman Emperor he did so by collecting titles and offices that already existed in the Republic rather than inventing new ones, etc. Tradition is used to legitimize something new all the time, and humility has been used by numerous in an attempt to win favor with others.

>>2321152
>the link provided is not like that.
It's not dissimilar, in that you take a text and read into it information that isn't actually there.

> Anyway, again, even if you're looking for it, if it just three or five coincidences
Some are coincidences, For example, let's take your post. It's post number 2321152. There are 574 characters in your post. 2+3+2+1+1+5+2 = 16, 574 = 16, Miracle! Spend a few hundred years looking for things like these, in any text, an you will find them. But for example the ocean/land thing doesn't give the exact ratio, it needs to be rounded, which gives much more leeway in both directions. And this is quite a bit different than a scientific miracle, which is what we were originally talking about and is much harder to do

>>2321184
Orson Welles had never directed a movie before Citizen Kane. He had skills and experiences that contributed to him being able to make a good film, but he had never done so before then. Likewise, even if Muhammed had never actually written a poem, if he had other skills that could have contributed to his ability to compose that would be enough.

>>2321260
A few posts back you claimed archaeology confirmed the story of Haman. But for that to be true, you would have to show which Pharaoh Haman served under and that that Pharaoh experienced some sort of economic fallout from the exodus of the Jews. If it's truly a miracle, there shouldn't be errors, which is why we are talking about that rather than supported things.

>>2312778

>5.2 million surplus women

I'm fairly certain that has more to do with life expectancy and aforementioned incarceration rates.

>>2321759
>prime
What do you mean? This is all legit history. From the best source we've got.

>>2312066
>jesus's words

The jewish preacher didn't write the bible.
His original words are /already/ interpeted through the perception of others before they were written down. You can't know his original words for certain unless you get a time machine.

>>2322445
>stabilize
Here, are the sources:

http://turntoislam.com/community/threads/is-it-true-mountains-prevent-earthquakes.11369/

The Geological Concept of Mountains in the Quran, pp. 44-45.

The Geological Concept of Mountains in the Quran, p. 5.

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0006406.html

>>2323984
Let's assume it is for the sake of argument, making things easier and easy to digest. But yes, I really do hope they found a Gospel according to St. Jesus in my lifetime.

>>2324142
Let's make this simple. Try to find any non-Islamic scientific text or geology textboox that describes mountains preventing earthquakes. If it's "confirmed by science," surely independent sources would have confirmed that is how it works? You won't be able to, because that isn't how plate tectonics work, but the process of doing it will be useful for you.

Reading the sources, it is incredibly clear what is paraphrased from an existing textbook and what is new material that exists to try and support the inaccurate Quranic narrative. For one thing, mountains occur as a result of plate collision and subsequent buckling, which means the motion-impeding friction precedes the mountains. For another, your sources can't decide if the mantle is completely fluid and therefore plates would move incredibly quickly through them were it not for mountains to "stabilize" them, or if it's so solid that mountain roots act like pegs anchoring the mountain itself into "solid" ground. (For the record, it flows like plastic over geologic time, and the mantle temperature/viscosity has much more to do with the rate of plate movement than mountains do.) And if they did work like that, locking the plates into place, that would impede plate movement, which would lead to energy storage, which would be released all at once after a breakage (or an earthquake), while plate creep is comparatively non-violent and has nowhere near the shaking. I did my part by reading all your links and debunking them only for you to drop the subject, now it's your turn. Read a geology text explaining mountains and earthquakes. Google a pdf if you have to.

>>2322553
>coincidences
I still stand by my points that even if we're looking for it, the "coincidences" are way too many to be the works of a man that didn't write down anytime he recites the Quran. He also didn't stutter or take back his words when reciting the Quran.

>Orson
Orson Welles already got his feet wet by acting in a movie. I think it's more fair to compare Muhammad with normal people that see movie but never make a movie before.

>haman miracles
The name is Haman, right hand man to the pharaoh, head of construction works, dated back during Moses time. No mention of "Haman Egypt" in the Bible. Highly unlikely to be talked by merchants.

See:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/haman.html

What do you means about error? You want every details about the Pharaoh at that time or something? The "Haman" according to archeology most likely refers to "Haman" in the Quran.

>>2324278
Will you always be here? On /his/? I need to familiarize myself with geology to make a solid argument. I need to learn a bit. For now, yeah, l have no knowledge about this far in geology.

Why are muslims against the depiction of Muhammad? Isn't he just a man, not divine, and can therefore be depicted?

>>2323270
That's according to 2010 survey, there are more female than male in the US

>>2324341
The prohibition of depictions of Muhammad was intended as a measure against the worship of the images of him.

>>2324375

Then why get upset when some European artist doodles muhammad?

>>2324289
>I still stand by my points that even if we're looking for it, the "coincidences" are way too many
Some are coincidences, but many are just reading in meaning where there isn't any. Again, the example of the radio towers. And being a skilled orator has nothing to do with it, as again we had the old bards who relied on their memories.

> I think it's more fair to compare Muhammad with normal people that see movie but never make a movie before.
Acting and directing are different arts.

>You want every details about the Pharaoh at that time or something? The "Haman" according to archeology most likely refers to "Haman" in the Quran.
Yes, ideally. Who did archaeological Haman work for? Because if that Haman and the Quranic Haman are the same person, that pharaoh must be the pharaoh of the Exodus, and we should be able to see evidence of it in his reign if the Quranic narrative is true.

>>2324334
I'm around often enough, but I can tell you right now you aren't going to find it. The closest you're going to get is the fact that a particular type of fault, called a thrust fault, provides a surface for the top of one plate to rub up against the bottom of another, and the positive/negative relief of both provide friction and locations for each to lock with each other. But the locking is a double edged sword; they help prevent earthquakes from allowing the plate to move the entire length that the energy might allow by forcing it to stop, but they also provided the causes for energy buildup to occur in the first place. They don't stabilize the crust so much as force it to move both more quickly and more slowly than "normal," which is sort of the opposite. And they have no influence on other types of faults, and the Quran doesn't specify.

Muhammad was the L. Ron Hubbard of his time. It's fascinating how he managed to trick so many people into believing he was a prophet, but he's not really noteworthy beyond that. One of histories greatest con artists

>>2324376
I don't know.

>>2324378
If this is true, than why didn't he tell that he is the incarnation of God that should be worshipped?

>>2324419
Why would he need to? He was already getting special privilege and the ability to get out of anything by telling people "Allah said so". Guy had a good scam going on. He cheated on his wife and managed to convince everyone it was ok because Allah told him it was cool. No need to say you're God when you can pull shit like that off

>>2324376
They didn't. They got mad when a bunch of Danish imams concocted a series of far more offensive images than doodles and passed them off among the elites of the Islamic world, who then filtered it into their state propaganda machines with the idea that the West was firing off another salvo in their war against Islam/Arabs. It's not nothing to do with graven image prohibitions at this point.

>>2324377
I'm too lazy to type anything right now or the near future. You're always be here? Nice, maybe I can make solid arguments in the future.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. You're the MVP.

>>2324419
For the same reason Hubbard didnt. It places to high a burden to preform. Being the worlds most perfect human and gateway to knowledge allows you to have all the benefits of being worshiped whilst still having the get out of jail free card.

>>2304997
indonesian muslim here.
even though i didn't do pre marital sex,no alcohol,pork and weeds. I am pretty secular.

I am afraid indonesia will become more sharia-tized because even so called secular and nationalist party using religion as a tools of their agenda.
primordial politics is very cancerous here.

>>2304997
god is mysterious.
something that could never be explained.
allah is just a name.
the name itself couldn't contain the "being" even this allah couldn't be classified as a being.
"allah" is just a name which we assume the "being" we address is very fond of.

Muhammad just happen to be the prophet,the chosen one.and of course he is just a human like us.
you could identify him as an autist,crazy,immoral as you like.
but the prophet is a prophet.

quran is just a book,written knowledge about what god wish in that certain era,muhammad era.and of course it couldn't describe a reality as it is.

>>2320307
>"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
That's not jesus denying him being good though. He's pointing out that God alone is good, right?
In John 10:14 jesus says "I am the GOOD shepard". Here we can see that Jesus not only does not deny being good, He in fact calls himself good. Based upon Jesus' words in these passages we can say the following
1) God alone is good. (Luke 18:19)
2) Jesus is good. (John 10:14)
3) ergo, Jesus is God.