IN MAY OF 1941 THE WAR HAD JUST BEGUN

>>2303695
>>2303695
I sailed with Captain Tuna, the chicken of the sea.
We didn’t sink the Bismarck , no matter what they say,
For when we seen the German ships, we sailed the other way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da6rYqI8z_4

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>sunk by biplanes

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>>2303872
It was scuttled.

The bongs couldn't damage glorious Krupp stahl

>a ww1+ design sinks an actual ww1 boat
>brits spend next half-a-century by try to make it look like an iowa on steroids instead of a boat that was outdated even before her keel was laid down

>>2304080
Why was it scuttled?

>>2304207
Because a Zionist sabotaged it's rudder from the inside.

Arguing about ww2 is pointless tho because it didn't even happen

https://youtu.be/y0FRoaodLKU

>>2304101
The eternal anglo most likely wanted his new Trafalgar because the Jutland one didn't work out quite as good as they hoped.

>>2304080
>the Kreigsmarine had a higher casualty rate than the late war Kamikazee program

>>2303695
THE GERMANS HAD AN OVERWEIGHT SHIP

THAT HAD SOME MEDIUM-SIZED GUNS

>>2304465
THE BISMARCK WAS THE MOST MEDIOCRE SHIP TO EVER SAIL THE SEAS

ON HER DECK WERE GUNS AS BIG AS STEERS AND SHELLS AS BIG AS TREES

>>2303695
It begun almost two years prior.

>>2304248
Holy shit is this guy serious? I felt like I caught whatever mental illness he has by just watching that.

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>>2303695
Bismarck is cute!
CUTE!

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>>2304476
>GUNS AS BIG AS STEERS
>SHELLS AS BIG AS TREES
What did he mean by this?

>>2305540
The ship had large guns

>>2305574
will it hurt if I torpedo your rudder?

>>2305585
Uh you don't get to bring aircraft.

>>2305540
Wrong ship faggot, we're talking about Bismarck not it's NEET sibling that just sat in Norway

>>2305716
Younger sister was better though desu.

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>>2304207
They couldn't allow such an advanced battleship fall into the hands of the enemy

>Inb4 Hur dur but it was sank by air bicycles!

The Bismark was heavily outnumbered and in enemy waters, she did well given the circumstances. (sank the Hood)

>>2305753
Sinking a +20 years old boat in a dire need of a major refit is hardly impressive.

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>>2305753
>sinking a battlecruiser, that is, a tin can with huge guns
>impressive
Heh. You must be new to naval warfare, don't you?

>>2305763
And damaging an new "advanced" KGV

>>2305753
What was so advanced about it?

>>2303695
MAIN SCREEN TURN ON

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>>2305801
It was made by Germans not the British

>>2305801
Nothing really, designwise Bismarck-class were basically WW1 boats built with WW2 tech.

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>2 modern battleships vs 1 ww1 era battlecruiser
>the battlecruiser forces 2 modern boats retreat

Should had focused on spamming u-boats instead of trying to create a surface navy.

>>2305753
>advanced battleship
Dude, the Bismarck was shit. Its guns were obsolete shit by the time it was designed. The Bismarck was undergunned as fuck.

>>2305853

>Its guns were obsolete shit by the time it was designed.

Based on what?

>>2305850
>boats

>>2305875
>not calling boats boats

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>>2305881
We call them ships, boy

>>2305866
Let's say... Size?

>>2305929
That's a big boat

>>2305941
For you

>>2305935

Nobody else in Europe was using bigger guns.

>>2305960
>forgetting nelsol and rodnol

>>2305975
Oh you mean the ones that couldn't sink a "ww1" battleship?

>>2305997
I would call leaving her a stationary wreck with no usable guns waiting to be finished off by destroyers a pretty solid win.

>>2305975

Britain isn't part of Europe.

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>>2306021
Good post

>>2306017
If i recall at least Bismarck was able to do it right

>>2306055

>Getting sunk on your first mission
>Doing it right

What did he mean by this?

>>2306021

>Europeans will always get confused by this

>>2305814
Captain Lindemann: What happen?

>>2303695

Not going to lie, I wish the Z-plan had been completed just so the world could have seen the ultimate battleship class between British Lion-class dreadnoughts and Germany super-battleships.

>>2303695
Wow, I sure wouldn't want to have fought that war with a flotilla of dinghies.

>>2304248
Watched all of that, was a bit disappointed. It's no 'Was Jimmy Savile a Wizard?'

>>2305753
>advanced battleship
>undergunned because nazis can't make compact hoists
>so underarmored for its displacement that KGV had better armor at ~8000t less displacement
Its only saving grace was its speed which was achieved due to not being bound by Washington.

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>>2305753

I love the metamorphosis, the transition from one state to another.

The Pre-Dreadnoughts tp Dreadnoughts are the best examples in War, it's the moment they finally change from ships of the line to a modern design.

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>>2307135

You can still see how the Pre-Dreadnought evolved from pic related.

>>2307018
>öögä böögä lets waste tonnage by going for 4 x 2 instead of 3 x 3 that would had weighted less and mounted 1 more gun

What did they mean by this?

>>2303695
THICC

>>2305716
>Big Bro gets to be killed by a Swordfish.
>Cousin Scharnhorst gets to be killed by the Duke of York
>Some midget relative Prinz Eugen gets to be fucking blown up by a fucking Nuke and survives.
>Meanwhile all I get to do is sit around in a Fjord while Brits occasionally shoot at me.
>When they finally kill me, Norwegians just immediately jump on the wreckage, tear me apart and take souvenirs.
>Still forever rusting away in Norway.

Being the Tirpitz is suffering.

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>>2303872
Swordfish was pretty badass for a biplane desu.

>>2308940

Ironically, its weakness was its strength. The Swordfish was considered obsolete in 1940, it was slow, and it couldn't fly real high, easy prey for flak, let alone enemy fighters should any be in the area.

But of course, since it was slow, and it couldn't fly real high, it boasted much better accuracy against targets in a day and age before guided munitions.

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>>2308947
>easy prey for flak

Actually it was found flak guns were largely ineffective against the Swordfish because the armor piercing rounds (designed to explode after impacting against metal) would go right through it and causing virtually no damage apart from torn canvas. On top of that, many AA guns couldn't depress to the low altitude of the Swordfish's attack run, hence why the Bismarck failed to bring down a single plane during the fateful raid.

>>2308927
At least she wasn't converted into a glorified escort carrier and then got sunk because idiots in charge of her construction couldn't go and finish adding her watertight bulkheads before sending her out to the submarine filled seas.

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>>2308927
Being Blucher hurts worse.
>set on fire by two 50-year-old German-made guns
>sunk by a 40-year-old Italian torpedo

>>2309107

>Bismarck was the only action of flak against the swordfish.

You ever look up the raid on Taranto? A great British success, to be sure, but they suffered almost 10% losses to surprised Italian gunners. Flak could and often did chew up the Fairey swordfish.

>ugly twins got bullied by renown
>bismarck went down during her first mission
>tripitz spent the war by being a harbor queen

Being a battleship in kriegsmarine was suffering.

>>2309780

The Tirpitz did pretty well as a one ship fleet-in-being. You wouldn't have the disaster of PQ 17 without worries that the Tirpitz would blow the entire convoy out of the water.

>>2309780
>>2309961

That's what happens when you side with the losing team.

All the German battleships did as well as could be expected given the very serious numerical and geographical disadvantages that the Kriegsmarine operated under. Britain had so many more ships that they effectively had Germany boxed in the entire war. U-boats were really the only way to get out of the "box" and even that was mitigated as Britain developed more efficient counter-measures.

>>2307018

>so underarmored for its displacement that KGV had better armor at ~8000t less displacement

The Bismark and its sister used that part of their displacement for more powerful propulsion. Both ships had a top speed of 30 knots, which is towards the upper end of battleship speed, and they had a much larger fuel supply as well. The Bismark-class was designed with the Atlantic ocean in mind. They were meant to be fast, long-ranged battleships that could terrorize allied shipping across the Atlantic. Of course, it didn't really work, but that's not the ship's fault. It was because the British simply had so many more ships that even getting to the Atlantic was a tall order. The Germans only had 4 battleships and 0 aircraft carriers (Graf Zeppelin doesn't count because it was never finished). That's not nearly enough to take on the Royal Navy during that time period.

>>2310213
>The Bismark and its sister used that part of their displacement for more powerful propulsion

They probably could had used a slightly smaller&lighter powerplant if Biscuit hadn't been so fucking beamy (36 meters while most of the other 30 knot and faster batttleships from that era were around 32 or 33 meters).

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>>2308109
>>2310234
Germans had inefficient shell hoists which took up a lot of width. They couldn't make a single shell hoist capable of loading both the shell and the powder to fit behind the guns so they put them beside the guns in order to fit. As a result, German battleships had to have much larger turrets to accommodate for the extra width needed. This in turn makes German ships wider even though they were already quite wide. A triple mount was rejected because it would have made an already wide ship even wider.

To give you an idea of how inefficient they were, the distance between the gun axes on the Hood is 2.75m, the Yamato being 3.05m and the Bismarck being 3.75m apart.

Pic related, a drawing of the planned H39 turret.

>>2310213
Bismarck was only able to achieve that speed with a massive length and heavy propulsion while other navies had their ships bound by Washington.

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>>2310314
fuck this was the image I meant to post

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>>2303695
>not posting superior American steel

>>2310353
>this never meet the Yamato

Man WWII was a letdown.

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>>2309705
her WW1 namesake didn't fare much better

It's a shame that the British scrapped all their battleships. Should have saved a few as floating museums.

>>2310375
None of the Iowa class got into a shooting fight with anything tougher than a training boat, let alone fight the Yamato.

>>2310314

>Bismarck was only able to achieve that speed with a massive length and heavy propulsion

Not sure what your point is. Every fast battleship had a massive length and heavy propulsion system.

>>2310314

>Bismarck was only able to achieve that speed with a massive length and heavy propulsion while other navies had their ships bound by Washington.

Also, Bismark was actually Washington treaty compliant. It was well within the 45000 standard displacement limit.

>>2310861

The Washington treaty required a 35,000 ton displacement, not a 45,000 one.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0351.pdf

>Article V

>No capital ship exceeding 35,000 tons, (35,560 metric tons) standard displacement shall be acquired by, constructed by, for, or within the jurisdiction of any of the Contracting Powers.

>>2310375
I know, it's like the battleship era was about to be concluded in an epic battle between the armoured superheavy biggest-battleship biggest-guns ever™ lady Yamato herself and American war machine, versatile, modern, fast miss Iowa, and then carrier planes stole first prize.

>>2310877
>>2310861
Probably referring to the 2nd London Treaty.

>>2310885

2nd London had the same displacement requirements as the Washington treaty.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000003-0257.pdf

Article 4.

>>2310877

>The Washington treaty required a 35,000 ton displacement, not a 45,000 one.

You're forgetting about the escalator clause that raised the tonnage limit to 45000 tons (standard displacement).

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>>2308927
>>2305716
The Brits sent 600 guys on an insane Hollywood esque suicide mission just to blow up the drydock the Tirpitz was going to use and nobody ever talks about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid

"The St Nazaire Raid or Operation Chariot was a successful British amphibious attack on the heavily defended Normandie dry dock at St Nazaire in German-occupied France during the Second World War. The operation was undertaken by the Royal Navy and British Commandos under the auspices of Combined Operations Headquarters on 28 March 1942. St Nazaire was targeted because the loss of its dry dock would force any large German warship in need of repairs, such as the Tirpitz, to return to home waters via either the English Channel or the GIUK gap, both of which were heavily defended by British units including the Royal Navy's Home Fleet, rather than having a haven available on the Atlantic coast.

The obsolete destroyer HMS Campbeltown, accompanied by 18 smaller craft, crossed the English Channel to the Atlantic coast of France and was rammed into the Normandie dock gates. The ship had been packed with delayed-action explosives, well hidden within a steel and concrete case, that detonated later that day, putting the dock out of service for the remainder of the war and up to five years after.

A force of commandos landed to destroy machinery and other structures. Heavy German gunfire sank, set ablaze or immobilised virtually all the small craft intended to transport the commandos back to England; the commandos had to fight their way out through the town to try to escape overland. Almost all were forced to surrender when their ammunition was expended and they were surrounded.

After the raid 228 men of the force of 611 returned to Britain; 169 were killed and 215 became prisoners of war. German casualties were over 360 dead."

>>2310375
>>2310634
>>2310375

Japan never allowed the Yamato to do its job. They always held in back in any situation where it might have been useful. It had so much symbolic importance that it was deprived of any opportunity to actually fight.

>>2310896

The on that the U.S., Britain, and France signed among themselves after the treaty was signed and without consulting the other powers, which has no basis in the treaty itself?

The only 'escalation clause' contained in the text of the treaty is one about gun caliber in Article 4, Section 2.

>>2310915

Sounds like a distinction without a difference. Even if the escalator clause was added retro-actively, it was still in effect when Bismark was constructed.

>>2310929

It was a symptom of the collapse of the treaty, it wasn't a valid part of it.

I mean for fuck's sake, Germany wasn't even a signatory to the treaty in the first place. Why does it even matter?

>>2310946

Okay, so then the treaty was completely invalid at that point so the Bismark couldn't have violated it.

>>2310856
>>2310946
Bismarck wasn't restricted by weight while her opponents were. She greatly under performs for her displacement with her only saving grace being her massive displacement.

>>2310392
Such is the life of kraut cruisers.

>>2309763

Well at Taranto they were attacking a fleet of Italian ship in a sheltered port (that had shore-based AA batteries to augment the fleet) as opposed to a lone German battleship traveling in poor weather so the Italians were bound to do better. Still only lost two aircraft though.

>>2309763
>10% kills
Is decimation a good kill count in World War 2 now?

>>2310912
Don't be a moron. Yamato was deployed for missions when it was practical for it to be there. If you want to make up stories, go to /lit/.

>>2311899

Out of 21 planes sent. And a few more were damaged.

Also, I"m unaware of any shore based batteries firing during Taranto.

And yes, the Bismarck had a bad AA loadout and a green crew; which probably has a lot more to do with their failure to down any planes than any inherent invulnerability of the Swordfish.

>>2311922

For flak on a single mission? Fuck yes. Think of it this way. In most countries, a tour of duty was 25 missions. If you're facing 10% losses every time, any individual pilot has about a 7% chance of surviving their tour of duty. (1- .9 to the 25th)

Hell, the losses of sending unescorted bombers of Germany was considered horrific and eventually stopped until they could get the P-51 to escort things at those ranges, and they were far, far less than 10% on an average sortie.

>>2311012
Japanese Yamato-class hotels were much the same.

>>2310906

I've been to St.Nazaire, toured the docks and the old sub pens. There's a small memorial near the entrance to the docks and very little else in the way of commemorative or informative infrastructure, very unusual for France where these things tend to be marked very well.

Also, when locals asked us why we were visiting a small industrial town while on holidays, saying we were there to see the docks and visit the memorial elicited blank stares.

Strange one.

>>2312302
Except the Yamato would have been actually competitive for its displacement.
It would have had similar firepower, similar speed and heavier armor for the same displacement as the planned Montana.