Christianity is hard Wish there was a way to be christian by

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>>2298958
That's way to hard. Wish there was some way to be a Christian by just paying for it.

>>2298978
>still falling for the indulgence meme which was more a political tool then anything else
You sure know your history books.

>>2299065
B-but muh sola scriptora
anything else is heresy.

>>2299065
>during the western schism 1378-1401 the catholic church would deny people the sacraments unless they made a donation for the church's war against the schismatics

>>2299072
>b-but my just b-lieve :^)
Two can play

>>2299080
Thank you for acknowledging it was a political tool

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>>2298958
>Christianity is hard

It's kind of hard to blame Luther because at the time the Catholic Church was incredibly corrupt. In hindsight the Reformation was incredibly damaging to Christianity, but at the time I'm sure he thought he was doing what was right.

>>2299088
Imagine actually having to follow and behave according to the holy scripture instead of saying you do.

>>2299092
Stating that the pope has no authoritive power over what is and what isn't christian is the main problem with protestanism.

>>2299093
>having to
or what?

>>2299099
Well the issue is when you get corrupt Popes, and there have been quite a few of them in the Catholic Churches time. What do you do when someone who has no regard for Christian doctine politics himself into the Pope? I'm sure the idea was to have no central authority to avoid the issue of getting someone who attempts to twist the faith into their own political weapon, as many Popes tried

>>2299103
Damnation you dingus.

You protestants sure are ill-informed.

>>2299107
fuck was the NT about then

>>2299105
Yes but it also paves the way for interpreting and doing as you see fit. Which we have seen the effect of now.

>>2299112
You would know if you read it. Sola Fide my ass.

>>2299118
I don't know why you assume I'm some kind of christian

>>2299114
Yeah that's why I said he didn't anticipate the disastrous effect it would have, but if you were a Christian in the 1500s and saw the state the Catholic Church was in you're be sorely pressed to put up with it too. It's not like he could see the future and predict they'd get their shit together, at the time it probably seemed like the Catholic Church was just going to get more and more corrupt til it imploded

>>2298958
God will make sure you will be punished for sin, keep in mind that we are ALL sinners. The bible clearly says that salvation is only gained through faith.

>>2299123
>Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
>lol but no faith will get you in heaven senpai what are you some goody 2 shoes lmao

>>2299237
>500 years later protestants still need to lie and smear campaign to hold their position in the world

>>2299163
Says nothing about salvation or going to heaven, you will get punished and rewarded IN LIFE for your actions

>>2299263
Why do you hate us so much? According to Catholicism you don't even have to believe in God to get a reserved seat in Heaven, thanks to your new pope.

>>2299329
The Pope can say whatever he wants in his interviews. As long as he doesn't try to transform his ridiculous drivel into actual canon, I don't care.

So far he has said a lot of shit, and thankfully hasn't done much.

>>2298958
Can I kill 6 billion Jews and still go to heaven?

>>2299341
>Lol you dumb protties, how are you going to agree on anything without an infallible magisterium? You need the pope to tell you what's true
>NOT EX CATHEDRA

>>2298958
That's not at all what Luther taught

I wish there was a way to ban you from all internet access from now till the day you hang yourself in a Denny's bathroom

>>2299329
You shouldn't have to, because beliefs are irrelevant to the virtue of a person

>inb4 hurr beliefs are what motivates one to become good
One has righteous beliefs from doing righteous deeds, not the other way around. The good deed happens first, the desire to do good and believe in Jesus will follow after.

>>2299866
Those who are in the flesh are incapable of doing that which is pleasing to God. Unless ye be born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God. No one will be saved apart from the imputation of the perfect righteousness of Christ, acquired by faith alone.

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>>2298958

Luther was just following in the tradition of pic related.

>Judaism is hard
>Wish there was a way of being saved by just believing in something, instead of actually doing anything.

>>2299880
What is wrong with Paul's forehead?

>>2298958
When you read luthers bio, it becomes clear he was a failed Ascetic who couldn't keep up with the demands.

>>2299897
too much water in his skull

>>2299880
>it's not what goes into a mans mouth which is evil, but what comes out
>Jews actually argue against this.
>the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath
>Jews actually argue against this
Wew•∞

Quick question, non-Catholic despise Peter and in favor of Paul, right?

Does Catholic despise Paul and in favor of Peter?

>>2299923
If Jesus followed sola scriptura like Luther then would have been a Pharisee

>>2299926

>Pharisees
>Sola scriptura

Do you know how I know you know nothing about the Pharisees? Have you ever heard the oft-repeated complaint on here that the Pharisees and their successors REALLY follow the Talmud and not the Torah?

>>2299880
Was Abraham justified while circumcised or uncircumcised?

>>2299926
Sadducee*

>>2299880
Why are you opposing the Rock?

>>2299972
The rock is the confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God

>>2299941
Muh 613 commandments

>>2299981
Peter literally means the Rock, according to Wikipedia

>>2299983
Thanks anon, you made my day.

Fuck man, I wish we were back to the days of Nicene, where there were actual heretics like the Arians and other non-Trinitarians.
Nowadays I feel like we're at each other over the goofy details.

>>2299991
I tell you that you are Petros, and on this Petra I will build my church

>>2300032
You questioning the Gospel according to St. Wikipedia?

>>2298958
Christianity sucks and I'm glad it's dying out in the developed world.

>>2300032
Peter was given the key by Jesus.

>>2300067
No, the church was

>>2299921
>it's not what goes into a mans mouth which is evil, but what comes out
It would depend on the Jew. Breaking kosher dietary laws is in general not evil, but unclean. However, the major sins that would result in being excommunicated from Judaism are predominately all spoken offenses, like calling a Jew a slave. Ultimately, it is what goes out if a man's mouth that makes him wicked, but what goes into a man's mouth determines how pious he is
>Sabbath made for man or man for the Sabbath
I'm sure that there's Gmora and Midrash you could find that would support both statements. At least Jews actually observe the Sabbath.

Why the fuck do Christians care about laws they don't even bother following anyhow?

>>2300068
???

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven...

>>2300076
Because Jesus came to fulfill the Mosai law, not to abolish them?

>>2300076

>It would depend on the Jew. Breaking kosher dietary laws is in general not evil, but unclean.

Not the guy you're responding to, but that's just wrong. Breaking the dietary laws is sinful/evil in Jusaism. Ritual cleanliness is something else entirely, and mostly centers around contact with corpses, seminal fluid, and vaginal emissions.

>>2299093

I could be down with stoning women who dishonor me.

Where do I sign up?

>>2300082
Jesus's interpretation of mosai law was quite different from the interpretation the pharisees and sadducees subscribed to. It's Christ's interpretation (if your a Christian, the Christian interpretation) which Jesus fulfilled. Not the Pharisee or sadducee interpretation.

>>2300089
Then why do almost all modern Jews not keep kosher?

Maybe it's like, different Jews have different doctrines or something, and I'm just speaking from my perspective.

Really ruffles my rugula.

>>2300118
>Then why do almost all modern Jews not keep kosher?
The same reason most western Christians are nominal Christian at best. We live in a secular society which places little importance on religion.

>>2300099
The thing is, it's not an interpretation.

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

>>2300148
King James Bible
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

>>2300099
There are some examples, like how good can be done on Sabbath day, while the Pharisees said that no work can be done on that day.

>>2300154
You do know that those two groups don't follow the Mosaic Law to the letter, right?

>>2300148
You could argue Christ's interpretation is correct, but saying that an ancient religious law which had formed over the span of many centuries and under the influence of different cultures while haveing long many different sects profess to know the correct way of practing it isn't a matter of interpretation is false.

>>2300162
King James Bible
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

>>2300118

>Then why do almost all modern Jews not keep kosher?

Because most modern Jews are not particularly observant.

>Maybe it's like, different Jews have different doctrines or something, and I'm just speaking from my perspective.

I've seen a lot of modern Jews just not give a damn. I've never heard of a modern Jew classify the dietary laws under טעמה וטהרה . Hell, most modern Jews don't even know what that is.

>>2300166
Matthew 5:19
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:19
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

>>2300081
The you is the apostles, that is, the church

>>2300099
Jesus created the law

>>2300181
Yes exactly, to Peter the Apostles

>>2300166
Matthew 5:20 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

>>2300187
Peter was an apostle who identified himself not as the head of the church but as a fellow elder

>>2300177
King James Bible
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

King James Bible
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

King James Bible
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

>>2300190
Which is exactly why you need the imputed righteousness of Christ, attained by faith alone

And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

>>2300193
>>2300199
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (James 2:17)

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (James 2:21-22)

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (2:24)

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (2:26)

>>2300191
The apostles identify him as THE Apostles.

Sahih International: And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.

>>2300193
What is availeth?

>>2300219
>people unironically believe in faith without works then wonder why Protestant societies have become anti-Christian secular hellholes.

>>2300239
Fuck off, this is a Christians thread. Use bible verses.

>>2300250
14. Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

When you go into any region and walk about in the countryside, when people take you in, eat what they serve you and heal the sick among them.

After all, what goes into your mouth will not defile you; rather, it's what comes out of your mouth that will defile you."
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

>>2300258
This is more like it

>>2300264
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive

And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
https://quran.com/19/30

>>2300235
nope

>>2300239
>>2300258
>>2300271
Not biblical

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>>2300249
Daily reminder

>>2300311
Sad deluded fool who thinks appearances matter.

God sees his black heart,and hellfire awaits.

>>2300271

As told by satan to a madman 600 years later.

>>2300307
King James Bible
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

>It is not part of the biblical canon as used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel. Most Christian denominations and traditions may accept the Books of Enoch as having some historical or theological interest, but they generally regard the Books of Enoch as non-canonical or non-inspired.[3] It is regarded as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, but not by any other Christian groups.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

>>2300305
Yes

Matthew 10:2
These are the names of the twelve apostles: FIRST, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John....

You know how there was never "the Holy Spirit, The Father, The Son" or "The Son, Holy Spirit, the Father"? Because sequence signified their importance.

>>2300343
Jesus kill children

>>2299866
Virtue is faith in Christianity, faith is the cause of good actions. An equivalent action without faith is not virtuous.

>>2300367
good

>>2300353
retard

>>2300347
Gnosticism is heresy

>>2300377
Literally why does Jesus pick the wrong man for the job? He is the Christ for crying out loud.

Also, in that list, Paul was not mentioned.

>>2300011
>mormons aren't actual heretics (I don't even know what these goofballs believe)
>muslims aren't actual heretics (non-Trinitarian, non-monogamous, overall hypocritical while claiming 'true faith', idolatry yet aggression against idolatry)

>>2300380
King James Bible
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

>>2300389
Peter was not head of the church
Jesus is

>>2300390
>I don't even know what these goofballs believe
Mormons believe that God became God by obediance to law and that through polygamous marriage they too can become gods
They also deny the virgin birth and instead believe the Holy Ghost had sex with Mary

>>2300396
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

>>2300409
Yup, definitely heretics.

>>2300400
Are you opposing Jesus choice? Are you opposing Jesus?

>>2300437
Jesus did not make Peter the head
Peter gave an interpretation in 2 Peter that Jesus is the rock

>>2300415
King James Bible
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

>>2300452
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God

>>2300409
She chose to seclude herself (from her people); then we sent to her Our Spirit, and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (God) from you, if you do fear God." (The man) said: "I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son." She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?" He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for me (God): And (we wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from us (God), and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " [Quran 19:17]

>>2300464
Stop quoting the quran, put more bible in it

>>2300442
Jesus entrusted Peter with his sheeps. THREE FUCKING TIMES.

>>2300486
King James Bible
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The Monk-- So, Abu-Salamah, you believe in all what your Prophet mentioned in your Book and that (this book) was inspired by God?

The Moslem-- Yes, everything mentioned in the Koran was inspired to Mohammed.

The Monk-- The Koran doesn't mention that the Christ is the Spirit of God and his Word given by God to Mary?

The Moslem-- Not eternal (word) but created.

The Monk-- Was God, at any time, dumb, deaf, or empty from any word or spirit?

The Moslem--God forbid! God, his Word and Spirit are always (present).

The Monk-- Is God's Word Creator or created?

The Moslem-- Creator.

The Monk-- You worship God along with his Spirit and Word, isn't it?

The Moslem-- I adore God, His Word and His Spirit.

The Monk-- Say now, then, " I believe in God, in His Spirit and in His Word."

The Moslem-- I believe in God and in His Spirit and in His Word. But I do not make them three, but one God.

The Monk-- This is my opinion, too; and my beliefs and those of all Christians of Orthodox faith. I like now to explain the meanings of the Holy Eternity: the Father is God; the Son is His Word; and the third (person is) the Holy Spirit.

The Prince was laying down. He then stood up, glanced to the Moslem, laughed and told him,-- " Abu-Salamah, the Monk Christianized you and introduced you to the Christian's religion; you are then Christian."
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/christ-muslim-debate.asp

>>2300494
To reinstate him. Thrice denial, thrice confession. Christ entrusted His sheep to every elder, not just Peter.

>>2300536
Thrice denied?

>>2300580

Before the cock crowed, yes.

>>2300494

Jesus is the Good Shepherd.

Not Peter.

>>2300367

Malaysian water makes people insane.

>>2300367

Mohammad murdered children, and raped them.

>>2300311
Not an argument.

>>2300580
Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house. Peter followed at a distance and when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and had sat down together, Peter sat down with them. A servant girl saw him seated there in the firelight. She looked closely at him and said, "This man was with him." But he denied it. "Woman, I don't know him," he said.

When the servant girl saw him there, she said again to those standing around, "This fellow is one of them." Again he denied it.

After a little while, those standing there went up to Peter and said, "Surely you are one of them, for your accent gives you away." Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!" Immediately a rooster crowed. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.

Christianity is anthropocentric fuckwittery devoid of perspective.

>>2300640
Theocentric*

>>2300595
Your God is a pedophile

Numbers 31:35-40 "[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [among them were virgin girls

>>2300644
* Anthropocentric

>>2300591
What?

>>2300651
King James Bible
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

>>2300660
>KJV
>Muh divorce
>Muh male heir
wew

>>2300651
The voices in your head are demons.

Mohammad is a pedophile.

>>2300657
I see you're not acquainted with our resident Malaysian madman.

>>2300663
King James Bible
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

>>2300667
But the Malaysian is a Catholic

>>2300673

So Malaysian Madman Demon Possessed Papist.

Great combo. Really useful for dialog.

>>2298958

>Gee, wish there was a way to be saved where Jesus already did all of the heavy lifting.

>>2300665
See >>2300651

>>2300667
Literally why Malaysia? Malaysia is beside Philiphine, right?

Nevermind, Malaysia is at the Southeast Asia

>>2299105
I'm not going to pretend there weren't shitty popes who had complete focus on temporal power rather than the best interests of Christianity at heart, but essentially what was done was the destruction of Christianity by destroy any all authorities on the matter and elevating the individual into making judgements on the nature of the divine, individuals that often have only a small glimpse of the whole and believe they've seen the whole picture and make judgements off of their limited scope of knowledge.

I would say tribunals and councils of theologians who dedicate their lives to the study of the bible and tradition are less prone to falling prey to corruption than individuals who have the power to interpret divinity in any way they fancy. A single pope might be the head of Christianity as a whole, but it takes a multitude of holy men and women in convocation together to examine every aspect of the word.

>>2300794
When the gospel was first preached to the early christians, those who believed asked, "Brethren, what shall we do?" They were told to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins and they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Those that received the word were baptized.

No popes
No works
No mass
God bless.

>>2298978

>implying Luther had a problem with indulgences

>>2300808
>No works
>No mass
Both false

>>2300808
>being this illiterate about early Christianity

Look at us selling all we have, giving it to the poor and travelling the earth preaching from the comfort of our homes.

>>2300844
Want to buy swords?

>>2300822
It can be stated. The river of gold flowing from Germoney to the Vatican was distressing to Luther, the Catholic Friar and German Nationalist.

>>2300832
Romans 4
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

>>2300856
Yes, incase I have to execute heretics and false prophets, mind doing a miracle for authentication purposes?

>>2300881
Why don't just execute all denominations than yours? They're all heresy.

>>2300877
>german nationalist
American education

>>2300883
You're a fucking moron

>>2300889
*other than

>>2300883
See >>2300219

>still not a Roman Catholic
Sad!

>>2300889
I have it on good authority that the tradition was oral and for a minority, since we live among sons of rhe devil, for some reason, after much persecution, a written tome appeared and it was for the majority, after this point, "christians" were no longer persecuted, but rather "heretics and witches" were, witches are people who do miracl- I mean witchcraft, in our days we are more civilized and only persecute cases of "mental illness" where the patient believes most people are of the devil :^).

>>2300895
Was Abraham justified while circumcised or uncircumcised?

>>2300890

It's as though being completely and utterly ignorant of history is a prerequisite for posting here.

At a time when Germany's efforts to unify was being met by huge Catholic resistance (from France, Austria and the Papacy), Luther became a natural hero for the new state. The museum does a great job of documenting all the efforts by the Prussians to deify him, particularly with a series of romantic 19th century paintings.
Later, when the Nazis came to power, they continued this deification of Luther. They promulgated 'Luther Day' (a 1930s sign for which is pictured), held rallies in Wittenberg and erected even more statues.

>>2300890
Brother of Germany: Martin Luther and German Nationalism in the Early 16th Century

Perhaps you are the one with the sad education. Many such cases.

>>2300822
>American "education"

>>2300042
the developed world will die along with it retard

>>2298978
Fpbp

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Day lee remainder.

>>2300603
I don't understand this. Why are Christians take this as Peter denied Christ's love?

JESUS DON'T WANT HIS DISCIPLES TO DIE A DOG DEATH.

Jesus told them to buy swords to protect him from the Jews. Seeing as the Romans help the Jews, Jesus told his disciples to put down their swords.

What for? For the Apostles to die a dog death.

>>2301146
Wasn't Abraham circumcised?

>>2303039
*for the Apostles to NOT die

>>2298958
this is a high quality shitpost

>>2299092
Luther didn't even want a shitstorm
he just wanted to stir up some civilized debate, maybe get a few reforms
this wasn't a part of his plan

>>2299880

was he a klingon?

Why do english speakers use this -> [word]
Like here:
>>2300239
and here
>>2300271

What does it mean?

>>2299065
the majority of indulgences were made by landed ministers to pay for illegitimate children

>>2304852
Brackets. In the context in which he's using it it may imply a textual variant or difficult to translate words.

>>2303039
>Wasn't Abraham circumcised?
Yep. Was he jutified while circumcised or uncircumcised?

>>2298958
Which Bible? You know that the original Bible doesn't exist anymore right?

>>2304947
euphoric

>>2304947

Obviously not. There's no such thing as the original bible.

>>2304952

How so?

I mean just say you are and poof you are one?