More than 2000 years has passed and STILL no one refuted this.

>>2284175
Obviously the answer is that God is evil.

>>2284175
Humans stew in their own shit. Why should God get involved? >>2284177

>>2284184
Because humans cry to God when they stew in their own shit.

>>2284175

Why wouldn't you call a malevolent omnipotence God?

Seems like a dumb move to me.

Epicurus seems also to assume that what appears to be evil could not possibly be good.

Suffering, for example. On first glance, it seems unnecessary. Seems.

>>2284191
>what appears to be evil could not possibly be good.
le mysterious ways ;)

>>2284198

>I know everything

literally the universe is mysterious

to us

>>2284190
>humans bitching should concern Gos
Kill yourself. The world will be better off honestly.

Jesus refuted it by his very existence; he is the solution to evil.

Is god willing but not able? No.

Is he able but not willing? Not exactly, he permits evil to exist, knowing well it is already defeated. It was defeated on the cross, when Satan was tricked into sacrificing Jesus and fulfilling God's plan.

He is able and willing, so he gave his son in sacrifice so evil could be defeated.

>>2284226
>Satan was tricked into sacrificing Jesus

fucking protestants

>>2284226
>It was defeated on the cross, when Satan was tricked into sacrificing Jesus and fulfilling God's plan.
Okey-dokey.

>>2284226
t. Martin Luther

>>2284226
>getting caught was part of the plan

>>2284175
Not only is it a fake quote, but the fake quote has been refuted soundly for centuries.

God will do as he will, and eradicate all evil, on his own timetable and not on some Greek sodomite's timetable.

>>2284233
It's in the bible.

Which you would know if you read the bible.

But since none of your beliefs are in the bible, you don't read it.

>>2284175
The issue with the Epicurean Paradox is that the claim that God not being willing means he is malevolent. If evil is used in a controlled way to strengthen the good or come necessary with the good then it would be against the notion of being good to remove this option. You cannot make the assessment that God is malevolent then.

>>2284233
>>2284235
>>2284240

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained .before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 2:7-8

>>2284262
And not on the timetable of the suffering either
he's evil my dude, get over it lol

>>2284270
The trouble with you posting is that you never know the right answer to the question, and by posting the wrong answer, you lead people further astray than they were before.

>>2284276

You can believe God is evil if you'd like.

I will agree with you this far; your god is evil.

>>2284278
As it is a dilemma, a "right" answer is not a thing.

>>2284175
I thought the Greeks didn't believe in omnipotent benevolent God anyway?

>>2284284

It's a fake quote, for one.

It's a fake dilemma, for two.

It's already refuted, for three.

You are a lost papist, for four.

>>2284286
The gods they invented and inherited were suraly not omnipotent benevolent monotheistic Gods, no.

They just deified people. Zeus and Hera are none other than Adam and Eve; you can see this in the Parthenon where Zeus and Hera are depicted naked, covered by fig leaves, standing next to a small tree with one apple on it, and a snake wrapped around the tree trunk.

>>2284288
>t. Protacuck
Fuck off with your phony religion which led to modernism, secularism and Athism you Anglo-Germanic cuck.

>>2284295

What does it profit a man to sell his soul? Or what would he take in exchange for his soul?

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>>2284288
One doesn't matter.
Two is incorrect, but was made originally for a very different scenario as the Abrahamic God is very different ontologically from Hellenistic gods.
Three I already know.
Four is also partly true, but with the help of the Catholic Church, Jesus will make me lost no longer.

Be happy.

>>2284274
>princes of this world

>>2284298
I don't have any religious affiliations, much less any phony ones.

Religions are man made systems of bondage.

Jesus died to make men free.

I am free.

That your concerns are all about power in this life makes you no more than a brute beast, with equal understanding.

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>>2284300
It first aired on the Fox network in the United States on October 8, 1995. In the episode, while being punished for playing a prank at church, Bart declares that there is no such thing as a soul and to prove it he sells his to Milhouse for $5 in the form of a piece of paper with "Bart Simpson's soul" written on it.

>>2284301

No church ever saved anyone.

No church ever will.

If you want to be saved, you have to deal with Jesus one-on-one, just like everyone else.

>>2284302
Ephesians 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

There are spiritual powers above all temporal powers.

>>2284311
I remember Bart regretting that. Homer too.

>>2284312
>No church ever saved anyone.

strange assumption

I'll assume God himself told you this was true.

Since you apparently deal with Jesus one-on-one on a regular basis.

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>>2284316

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>>2284312
Yes, we are always saved by grace. Regardless, the church will prepare us for this and does so through the sacraments and moral teaching so we better grasp God's moral law and come to see God's love in this life.

Be happy

>>2284304
Hide the fact that Protestantism was what led to the Kali Yuga you wannabe St. Paul.

No good comes from the likes of you, Anglo-Germanic amerifat cuck. Eat another gmo msg burger and shut up.

>>2284318
Yup. Nice guy. Funny. You'd like him.

>>2284329

Your pagan church will prepare you to be alone, in the dark, and on fire, forever.

I'm happy as a clam. Because I know for sure I will never be alone, in the dark, and on fire, forever.

Be joyful.

>>2284333
Those are the best. You sure know your burgers.

IT WAS clear that Hamza Ali al-Khateeb had been tortured before he died. Returned to his family a month after he was arrested at a peaceful protest in April 2011, the 13-year-old boy’s dead body was covered with cigarette burns and lacerations. His jaw and both kneecaps had been smashed and his penis had been cut off.

As demonstrations against the regime’s rule spread across the country, the boy’s death at the hands of the regime’s security forces became a powerful symbol of its brutality. “I can only hope that this child did not die in vain but that the Syrian government will end the brutality and begin a transition to real democracy,” said Hillary Clinton, who was America’s secretary of state at the time. During the early days of the uprising many shared her hope.

>>2284318
>>2284312
>>2284301
whoa, stop right there. The church is Christ. The church saves everyone that believes. Also note that, the Catholic church follows a lot of pagan traditions and worships false idols.

>>2284339
"Le mammon worshipping Amerifat pretending to be christian"
Wew. I bet you think kikes are the chosen people of God.

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>>2284338
>Your pagan church will prepare you to be alone, in the dark, and on fire, forever.

But that's both wrong about the end result and the church as pagan. The church was instituted by Christ and remains so.

>I'm happy as a clam.

I didn't know clams could be happy, Anon.
Tell me of the happiness of the clams, Anon.

>Estimates of excess deaths during the sanctions vary widely, use different methodologies and cover different time-frames.[32][33][34] Some estimates include (some of them include effects of the Gulf War in the estimate):

>Mohamed M. Ali, John Blacker, and Gareth Jones estimate between 400,000 and 500,000 excess under-5 deaths.[35]

>>2284339
God doesn't love gluttonous nations which spread faggit marriage all over the earth like America.

>>2284345
The church is not Christ.

The church is the Bride of Christ.

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>>2284175
God is a spook

>>2284347

Of course they are. Hence their survival in an evil and fallen world that wants them all dead.

>>2284226
>"I was only pretending to be weak"
t. Jesus

>>2284348

The Church of Peter's claims are all false dude.

None of your "traditions" are in the bible. They're all from Babylon.

Which is why Peter called Rome "Babylon".

>>2284353

And I'm sure he will judge the nations appropriately, when the time comes.

I'm more concerned with getting people into heaven than I am getting my nation less judged. I pray he merely forsakes us, not judges us.

>>2284359

He came to die.

He had 12,000 angels as an honor guard.

1 angel unchecked can eradicate humanity.

>>2284355
Body* of Christ. Which could be interpreted, I suppose, as Him living in you and all of us. But you dont need a steeple.

>>2284348
(as) happy as a clam (at high tide)
phrase of happy
1.
NORTH AMERICAN
extremely happy.

>>2284334
>You'd

strange assumption

>>2284363
Prophecy
"There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." "Let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:2, 16.

Fulfillment
It is a matter of historical fact that Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 by the Roman warrior Titus.

Christ saw in Jerusalem a symbol of the world hardened in unbelief and rebellion, and hastening on to meet the retributive judgments of God. The woes of a fallen race, pressing upon His soul, forced from His lips that exceeding bitter cry. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Matthew 24:37

He saw the record of sin traced in human misery, tears, and blood; His heart was moved with infinite pity for the afflicted and suffering ones of earth; He yearned to relieve them all. But even His hand might not turn back the tide of human woe; few would seek their only Source of help. He was willing to pour out His soul unto death, to bring salvation within their reach; but few would come to Him that they might have life.

>>2284355
>>2284367

>protestants

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>>2284345
>>2284345
>whoa, stop right there. The church is Christ.

It's all semantics at this point but we get each other. I would call the church the Bride of Christ or the Body of Christ but that would just be adding needless detail to our topic.

The church does a lot of little customs based on cultures that historically surrounded it, down to the genuflect even, but these are of no issue. What matters id doctrine and that is unchanged and comes from God.

Also anon, don't be silly. No one worships anyone but God here. You must not think of people giving respect to others or asking others to pray for them as worshiping them.

>>2284367
2 Corinthians 11:2 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Revelation 19
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

>>2284372

Not at all. He's everything you ever wanted in a person.

>>2284375

Near Fulfillment: 70 AD. Temple destroyed with literally not one stone upon the other, as gold had melted from the temple and run down the cracks of the stones. And the soldiers had the right to loot.

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>>2284361
But anon, all the history is in our favor!
And hey, even the establishment of the Biblical Canon is not in the Bible so maybe we need to focus on what institution was guided by the Holy Spirit to establish the canon authoritatively.

Be happy.

>>2284368
So you're telling me the clams are not happy?
That's sad.

>>2284381
Whichever you call it, it is not the Roman Catholic Church, nor are you a part of it. You're just a brainwashed cult member who thinks all cults have to be small.

>>2284393

The history of the world, and friendship with the world, and control of all the world, is all the Roman Catholic Church cares about.

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>>2284394
But anon, that's wrong.

>>2284389
>Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory,[34] saying, "There is no merit in vanquishing a people forsaken by their own God."

>>2284385

>you would'
>implying I haven't already

see

>>2284372

>>2284224
>Psalm 103:8
>The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.

>Revelation 21:4
>He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.

>Psalm 103:13
>As a father shows compassion to his children, so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him.

Funny, the Bible is always saying how much he loves us, so I would expect he would listen to complaints.

>>2284403

None of it is wrong, and I have been telling you this for over a year.

You do not know that you are saved because you are not saved.

You are not saved because your church cannot save you.

Your salvation is in doubt because your church wants to retain you as its prisoner, control every aspect of your life, and make sure you do not get into heaven.

And the one thing they really do not want you to think about is that all of their important doctrines have no place in the bible.

Nor do they encourage the study of the bible.

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>>2284399
This is wrong as well.
Why are these people saying such wrong things constantly without arguments behind them?

>>2284403
>>2284399

>>2284404
Yeah, but there's a bunch of gold. Gold that's in the Vatican basement to this day.

>>2284408

Snarky and bitchy about Jesus is not the go-to move for born again Christians, no.

>>2284412
King James Bible
And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.

>>2284418

You can say "LALALALALALALA" all you want.

You will face God, alone, and without excuse.

>>2284418
>without arguments behind them?

Catholic church: We believe in Evolution! We're not like those crazy Creationists!

Catholic church: We believe in the Big Bang! We're scientists, not like those crazy Creationists!

Catholic church: You don't need to believe in God to make it to heaven! Just follow your own conscience!

>>2284426
I'm sure he's trembling in his boots.

>>2284432

I'm sure too. The Holy Spirit will convict him; my role here is to put a pebble in his shoe.

See him limping?

You who prattle that morality is social and that man would need no morality on a desert island—it is on a desert island that he would need it most. Let him try to claim, when there are no victims to pay for it, that a rock is a house, that sand is clothing, that food will drop into his mouth without cause or effort, that he will collect a harvest tomorrow by devouring his stock seed today—and reality will wipe him out, as he deserves; reality will show him that life is a value to be bought and that thinking is the only coin noble enough to buy it.

>itt: deluded, decieved, duped catholics

>>2284449
They're up against a 1700 year old diabolical machine.

To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities — I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not — that one endures.

>>2284436
>protacuck practices theology of men instead of theology of God
>thinks he's a Christian
Kek. You probably think king Henry was a saint and Martin Luther was a prophet. Revel in the mammon worship Calvin taught, it will only bring you to hell where you belong.

>>2284459
I have no opinion on King Henry, and Martin Luther was a vile, vicious anti-semitic Catholic friar.

Calvin was wrong about predestination, among other things.

Which is why I stick to the bible as taught by the Holy Spirit of God, and don't make the same sorts of fallacious appeals to authority as you do.

New International Version
Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,

New Living Translation
For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child."

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>>2284415
>You do not know that you are saved because you are not saved.

I cannot say if I will gain salvation because I cannot tell my future and I may lose such a thing if I fall to mortal sin.
The church definitely can't save me, but through its teachings and sacraments I can find and keep the way!

>no place in the Bible
Why worry about it not being in the Bible? The Bible is important scriptures, not the sole authority to God's teachings! It doesn't even have its own canon established in it!

Silly, Anon!

>>2284426
Oh I definitely know about my meeting with God, Anon, but you must realize that you're now being hypocritical!
You've been making claims without substantial argument behind them. I've been dismissing them with as much argument, if not a little more at times. You only have a problem with the way I've been arguing and taking no time to reflect upon your own actions!

>>2284431
The church doesn't hold to evolution or the young earth or the Big Bang as doctrine and is open to many interpretations of the formation of the Earth outside of doctrine!

Also, the church doesn't believe that you can find salvation by believing in God! Silly, that's why atheism is a mortal sin. Atheists need to follow their conscience alone so to know God's moral law in their daily life if they aren't going to get support from the church and scripture. This way is arduous and not recommended at all but if one is staying the course as atheist then they should do it for their good and live with a sincere heart so to one day repent their atheism and no longer make it a mortal sin on their shoulders.

Sillypants!

>>2284471
Shit translation.

Hebrews 12:11
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

>>2284466
>le amerfat picks up a bible from a local garage sale and thinks he knows god"
You should start a new Protestant sect. Amerfatism. Teach that Jesus loves war for Israel, beef burgers and sola scruptura. Your sure to be a big hit.

>>2284480
1. You recognize that I told you the truth. You do not know that you are saved.

2. The bible says a man can know if he is saved.

3. Therefore my conclusion that you are a brainwashed cult member who is intentionally being led astray by an evil cult needs to be examined further, by you studying the bible on the gaining of, the knowledge of, and the eternal security of, salvation.

Here's a good place to start.

The Gospel. livinggodministries dot net

>>2284481
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust does corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

>>2284482

Hmmmm, free burgers watching football on Sundays and talking about Jesus during commercial breaks.....

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>>2284489
>1
No, I believe I tended your point. Do check again because I believe I am correct both in point and in that I am actually disagreeing with your initial claim.

>2
It is written that he who endures to the end will be saved.
You can know you will be saved just as much as you can know you will endure.

>3
This conclusion doesn't follow the premises at all.

I would like to speak with you, not your links.

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Actually, I must go.
You all have a good night.

>>2284518
God bless you wolfsheim! Good night !

>>2284358
>le protestations in a nut shell
Wow. Your a living joke going to hell with your jew masters, I mean buddies.

>>2284517

1. You do not know you are saved because you are not saved.
You: I do not know whether or not I will be saved.

You: I must endure to the end.

Me: That's for Tribulation Saints, not you.

therefore, god is malovalent

was that so hard?
read the fucking bible man he's hirrible. doesn' mean he doesn't exist

>>2284606

God is holy, just and righteous.

To you, a being whose punishment is mete, says he is malevolent.

But are you not evil?

>>2284175
> If he's able but not willing he's malevolent
> Not stopping evil is the same as having or showing a wish to do evil to others

By that logic we're all malevolent since we don't fight crime.

>>2284292
Sorry, your analogies are wrong, read Theogonia.
Trust me, i am Greek, hehehe...

>>2284687
I did not make an analogy.

I demonstrated that Zeus and Hera, and the Garden of Hespirides, and the golden apples therein, are all straight out of Genesis 1.

>>2284686

There's also a false inference that God is forced to act immediately or he is responsible for someone else's evil.

That God will mete punishment out on all evil, in his time, should bother those people who realize that they are indeed evil.

>>2284686
Some sects argue that if you are not actively trying to save others then you are committing evil by letting them fall to darkness.

>>2284701
I wish they would try to gain converts for the joy of the Lord, and the rejoicing of heaven, rather than out of fear of having to "prove" their own faith.

>>2284366
>He had 12,000 angels as an honor guard.
>1 angel unchecked can eradicate humanity.
Based

>>2284700
>or he is responsible for someone else's evil.

He is since he created everything

>>2284735
By that logic free will doesn't exist. If he's the one responsible for someone doing evil then that means the person who committed the evil act didn't choose to do so.

>>2284701
And in other sects it's God's job to punish those who commit evil, not prevent them.

>>2284770
Right, and the followers are committing evil by purposefully not acting and letting others be doomed.

>>2284175
It's very easily refutable, Epicurus like many others till this day have a idealistic view of God (in the sense that all hardships, wars and diseases are bad hence if there was a God it'd all be gone), but this idealistic view of theirs is built on their personal perception which at the core their emotions and ignorance. Also it goes over the minds of many that for example the old testament God is as a flame of fire, incorporating attributes such as holiness and righteousness, and the very fact that the god of the bible never intended for life after the sin in the garden to be all easy. And about the garden of Eden it can be looked at this way, God let Adam and Eve to sin since after all they had free will, to usher in a age where it was up to a person to decide how to live and whom to worship, and God was strictly fair and neutral in that regard, about their choice,God didn't force them not to do it. But anyways if you were God would you want people to worship you in ignorance of what your actions can really do or be subjected to the truth and be left with a choice, to or to not.

Now regarding things like war my understanding of what happened in the old testament is that God either let two sinful nations duke it out and that war was a punishment for both nations, God used a less sinful or perhaps not even really sinful nation at all to punish a sinful one, and if a "bad" nation did attack a good nation that nation which was the aggressor would suffer later for their unjustified actions. So now the real BIG misunderstanding with people is that people think if a nation was punished for their sin by another nation then it's evil since people die you know, yet the biblical God never stood against punishment, never stood against destruction of those who are deemed bad according to the biblical standards. So the question is why do people, and even those who may have a high intellect let their emotions confuse them about who the God of the old testament was?

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>>2285022
Also I don't want to be seen as a Christian apologetic. I'm not even technically a Christian, but what I said about the biblical God though is true. Now the purpose of why I typed that out is to inform people because all the emotion filled butthurt statements and assumptions I see all over the internet are obnoxious, people shouldn't even try to bother to rationalize something they totally do not understand nor want to understand and probably will not understand on their own unless someone tells them. Bye.

>>2284175
Isn't the reason theologists give is that God made man to have free will, and free will allows for man to commit evil. God can stop man from committing evil, but by doing so he prevents free will, so he has to let it all go through. Also all that natural disasters and shit is revenge for the evil we do.

>>2284175
>trying to view god through a human lens
there's your problem

>>2285140
>this concept with no rational basis is only irrational because you are human, and I know this despite being human too and there is no point in logical arguments

why do you retards even try?

>>2285166
I'm not trying to prove that there is or isn't a god, I'm just disproving the argument.

>>2285166
If there was a god, humans wouldn't be able to comprehend it, much less disprove it's omnipotence or benevolence solely because it doesn't get rid of all problems on earth or whatever this old dude's trying to argue.

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>>2284191
>seems

Literally "If God exists then why don't I have a girlfriend?": The Argument

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>>2284175
God gave human free will. We can choose to be evil or good. Thus evil comes from human, NOT from God.

He is able, but choose not to. Why? Because it's a test for who are worthy to have comfy eternal life in Heaven.

Want to enter Heaven? Do justice, stop evil and endure God's test.

Want to enter Hell? Rape, kill, steal. Do evil.

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>>2284175
>>2285210
>"BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO BORN LESS FORTUNATE?"
God creates human with less fortunate as a test for them, or in some cases, his family. If they overcome it, then great rewards will await them in heaven, way way way way more rewards than those who borns fortunate.

>"BULLSHIT, WHAT ABOUT KIDS THAT DIED YOUNG?"
All of the mentally sick from birth and all of the children that die before they reached puberty will go into heaven without being judged. No question ask.

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>>2285210
don't forget the part where it is impossible for anyone to be "good" enough for heaven, making the real criteria for heaven faith. so there are murderers, rapists and thieves in heaven who have repented and perfectly decent people in heel. ah yes, that's justice.

>>2285229
*hell

>>2285229
I assume you're talking about christianity, in which case, yes, anyone truly sorry for their sins is forgiven. Seems fair to me.

Honestly it seems to me that at the end of the day the christian argument comes down to that God is somehow above criticism.

>>2285238
Wouldn't any omnipotent god be above criticism?

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>>2285235
that's not how it works, anon. this forgiveness is stipulated on whether or not you believe in Christianity.

>>2285249
Only if you don't want to get fucked in the ass by said god

The answer is that god isn't real, Jesus was real but the miracles weren't, and the holy spirit is entirely real.

>>2285223
Id say that humans being born in less fortunate conditions is a result of humanity as well

>>2285256
Well yeah, but it would make sense that the morals of any omnipotent entity are perfect, and arguing against them is stupid both logically and because you'll get smited

>>2285259
if he needs to smite me for questioning his moral code then he most likely wouldn't be omnipotent, just a petty deity that's much stronger than me.

>>2285257
>The answer is that god isn't real, Jesus was real but the miracles weren't, and the holy spirit is entirely real.
what did he mean by this?

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>>2285229
Yes, it's impossible for human to be perfect. But don't forget, you can repent.

If you repent, all of your sins are forgiven. No question ask.

Ezekiel 18:21
"But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.

>>2285258
All the more reason why we should do good.

>>2285272
You were the one who mentioned smiting in the form of anal rape, obviously if there is a god he's not attacking you for disagreeing with him.

>>2284175
Evil does not exist

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>>2285275
>But don't forget, you can repent.
You're kinda missing the whole point here. salvation is faith based, not truly based upon how "good" you are. this is an inherently unjust system. what this ends up judging people by is where they were born and whether they were convinced that Christianity itself was illogical or not.

>>2285289
How about Hitler? Is he entitled to salvation?

>>2285296
what exactly is your point? And according to Christianity he possibly could be if he repented in that bunker before shooting himself. I say possibly because I've heard that suicide is a sin that is impractical to repent, since you can't repent it once you're dead, resulting in nearly every person to commit suicide going to hell, so long as it was a quick death with no room for second thoughts

>>2284184
But then God made us in such a manner that we stew shit

>>2285308
I assume you're a Christians. If I understand correctly, you said that salvation is faith based. That mean that we can enter heaven by faith alone.

If we leave all the controversy aside, and say that Hitler did believe in Jesus, them he should entitled to heaven.

Which is unacceptable because of what he did.

>>2285330
By giving us free will?

>>2285308
While many Christians believe that, not all do. I, for one, think that it's nonsense. Jesup himself said "not everyone who comes to me saying 'lord, lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who have done the will of my father here on earth" . Too many Christians ignore the fact that Jesup was nothing if not practical, and demanded works of his followers. Paul seems to forget that.

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>>2284226
>>2284274
>religious guy starts speaking utter gibberish

wew lad

>>2285338
I am not a christians

>>2284233
this is actually in a non-canonical early christian book called the Ascension of Isaiah

>>2285516
Oh, sorry m8

>>2284191
>Epicurus seems also to assume that what appears to be evil could not possibly be good.
You do understand the same can be said about the opposite view?

>>2284175
Because humans have free will.

There, debunked about a century before Epicurus was born.

>>2285681
Free will is an incoherent concept. Humans are either deterministic machines - a predetermined causal outcome - or random processes, or somewhere in between, but there's no place for free will to hide in any possible mode of existence.

>>2285698
""Deterministic machines or random processes or somewhere in between"" is an incoherent concept.

Humans actually have free will. There's no place for machine will in any possible mode of existence.

>>2285704
>Humans actually have free will.
Unless you're using some orwellian definition of "free", no they don't. Philosophical free will that is required to make sense of your sky daddy's actions cannot exist by definition. One cannot be an ultimate cause of one's actions.

And to speak less philosophically, we already KNOW humans are machines because we can affect the machinery at will, and study its workings.

>There's no place for machine will in any possible mode of existence.
And you say this why?

>>2285708
Leave biology outside, human has free will. It's just that there are pros and cons for every action we take.

>>2285717
>Leave biology outside, human has free will.
Now why would I possibly leave it out?

>It's just that there are pros and cons for every action we take.
Considering that I'm rejecting your asshat premise of free will, this statement is irrelevant.

>>2285729
>why would
To make things easier by focusing one at a time?

>irrelevant
Why?

>>2285742
>To make things easier by focusing one at a time?
You can start by actually addressing my statements instead of reasserting your position over and over or parroting my statements like a child.


>Why?
Because I reject your premise of free will.

>>2285708
>>2285748
>Philosophical free will that is required to make sense of your sky daddy's actions cannot exist by definition. One cannot be an ultimate cause of one's actions.

Philosophical free will is the free will that pleb understand, right?

Also, why does it required to make sense of "your sky daddy's actions cannot exist by definition"?

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wow, yet another thread where various kinds of christians damn each other to hell for belonging to a different church
>jesus died for this..

>>2285756
>Philosophical free will is the free will that pleb understand, right?
It's the one we're talking about when we're talking about trying to make sense of YHWH's tyranny. The one you feel in your head when you think you make a choice. The one that doesn't actually exist.

>Also, why does it required to make sense of "your sky daddy's actions cannot exist by definition"?
Because it denies the fundamentally unfair nature of human existence as a consequence. Because it requires one to ultimately cause one's actions, which literally cannot happen in any scenario. Let me take you on a little thought experiment.
Scenario 1:
The universe is completely deterministic. Everything you feel, think and do is predetermined by a set of initial conditions entirely out of your control. This is one possible way our universe could actually be. Now I'd like you to explain in this scenario, in what possible sense I could be said to have free will when I'm the equivalent of a rock rolling down a hill.

Scenario 2:
The universe is completely stochastic. Everything you think you feel is mere fluctuations of some random process. You are a Boltzmann brain. Where could you possibly find free will here?

Now, scenario 3 is basically our currently understood physical universe. It is largely (maybe completely, but we can't know for sure) deterministic on the macro scale, and stochastic on the micro scale. There are fundamental uncertainties in the way the universe works, see quantum mechanics. How does free will arise here?

You clearly don't seem to have a very good grasp on English, tbqh with you familia. Get a tutor or something.

>>2285782
>feel in the head
So a "free will" understand by normal people, right? The ability to freely choose our actions, based on the situation?

>YHWH
Not a Christians

>grasp on English
And you seem to can't put things in simple straightfoward words.

>YHWH tyranny
What do you mean by tyranny?

>>2284226
>No
It's not a yes or no question dummy.
Unable or unwilling, pick one.

>>2285846
Right. Now I'm convinced you're trolling. Learn American, fucko.

>>2285877
No seriously, I don't know what you mean by "YHWH tyranny".

I need to understand your view on it in order to give proper (You).

>>2284175
Didn't epicurus lived like in 300 BC ? I don't think they had such a concept of monotheism like we find in Abrahamic religion nowadays.