Was there ever a bigger misallocation of resources than suburbia?

>>2257538
Communism.

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>>2257538
Or live in commie blocks?
Kek, better suburbia then living in these monstrosities

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>>2257538
>misallocation of resources
Who would do a better job of allocating resources? The State?

>>2257539
>>2257551
Remember, Nightmare A and Nightmare B are your only options. There's nothing else.

People don't want to be stacked up like crates of tampons.

If you want people to live in some geometrically perfect commmie utopia you need to create livable places instead of kafkaesque nightmares.

Every white numale faggot complaining about suburbs would kill themselves in five minutes flat if they ever stepped into a commie block.

t. Raised in Novi Beograd

>>2257563
I'm not defending urban sprawl. I'm just answering the actual question.

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>>2257576
Okay that's fair enough. Communism probably is the right answer then.

>>2257538
suburbs are great. the city sucks, the country sucks, right in the middle is where it's at. I wish we could turn the entire country into nice, rolling suburbs, with nature parks in the middle.

>>2257580
That wouldn't be bad of they left a block of houses or two for a large park every now and again. Then you could have the surrounding area be places to eat or other attractions like arcades and the like. It could be like a community gathering spot.

>>2257617
>community gathering spot
>in America
lol you crack me up.

>>2257621
>America
Oh nevermind, I didn't see the filename.

>>2257606
I am very glad you are nothing more than a shitposter on 4chan.

Feel free to commit yourself to slow suicide.

>>2257617
That exists farther in the city.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_park_and_boulevard_system?wprov=sfla1
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/zlup/Historic_Preservation/Publications/ParkBlvdsHD_NR_map_14July2011.pdf

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LMAO Europeans are so cucked they actually defend their chaotic shithole cities.

>>2257671
Chaos is good. Shitholes are good too, although not so much to live in. But chaos is good, nice and settling. Order is enraging.

This is /his/. Surely you appreciate the superiority of inferior situations.

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>>2257676
>introduce a little anarchy
>upset the established order

>>2257681
Fuck I've been found out

There's no real non-edgy way to say it, I just hate order.

>>2257671
If you think the left image is more aesthetically pleasing than the right, you're autistic

t. Midwesterner

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>>2257671
>left image
Jesus Christ that's absolutely fucking disgusting. Making your cities and suburbs into bland, featureless, soulless shitholes just wasn't enough for you, huh? You're not content until you've sucked the life out of absolutely everything everywhere?

>>2257563
Haha fuck young live on a secluded farm in a nice house

>>2257747
I'd literally rather die.

I'm joining the army to escape that shit.

>>2257724
Some East Coast cities look just like European cities.

In general, if it was built before the automobile, it'll be less orderly and shit

>implying gridiron plan isn't the best form of urban planning

>>2257747
>live on a farm as a horny 18 year old
>nothing to do but fuck your cousin

Spoonfeed me about why people hate suburbs.

>>2257761
>if it was built before the automobile
There are Japanese cities built long before American cities that use the grid system because they were actually planned. The reason European cities are so shit is because they're unplanned abortions.

>>2257782
Very often, they're boring places to live. You have a bunch of houses that all look the same interspersed with run-down strip malls and highways. You need a car if you want to go anywhere.

That's the stereotype, but it actually varies a lot. It depends upon the particular development and history of the suburb, but there are plenty that are indeed that shitty.

>>2257787
The Greeks and Romans followed the same pattern the US did.

Older cities were chaotic shitholes, but when they had the chance to built new ones, they made clean gridirons.

I imagine Japan had the change to build a lot of new cities being that the US helpfully contributed a bunch of great fires.

>>2257782
You can't walk places.

This leads to inefficient transportation and land use, as well as fat, sheltered children.

>>2257782
You don't need to make the ratrace THAT obvious. It's kinda insulting.

>>2257809
>You can't walk places.
Lol what are trains and busses (bearing in mind you walk to and from them, and the main concern is "doing stuff without a car")

>>2257815
Trains and buses are a pathetic substitute for just walking somewhere any time you want to.

You don't have to wait on a platform for the running shoes that only show up twice an hour.

Also, suburban dwellings are less efficient to heat and cool, so a lot of people dislike that.

>>2257820
Suburbs do not have trains that only show up every half hour. That shit's for small towns.

Although my experience with them is limited to Greater London.

>>2257815
>Americans think walking means riding the bus
This is just too good to be true.

>>2257830
>Americans
Yeah that's why my experience is limited to Greater London you interminable faggot.

>>2257824
I'm going off of the bus outside of my apartment complex.

Like nigga, I ain't waiting no half an hour when I can drive downtown in half an hour, without having to switch bus routes at the nearest mall.

>>2257824
I imagine Greater London is vastly different from the 'typical' American suburb, which is what I thought we were discussing here

>>2257671
This may have something to do with the fact that European cities have been developing organically over literally thousands of years, whereas American ''''''''''history'''''''''' begins basically last week by the standards of proper countries

>>2257843
I thought we were just doing suburbs, in which case GL probably isn't that different from anything else. Although US public transport is apparently shit.

>>2257849
See >>2257806 and >>2257787

I'd like to see those excuses

>>2257850
There is a massive difference between British suburbs and American suburbs due to the different ways in which they developed

>>2257849
Like that old nation of Italy? Or the ancient country of Germany? Or the venerable state of Croatia?

>>2257858
Are you retarded?

>>2257879
Those countries are all newer than the US of A my friend ;)

>>2257671
At the right image we can see how people organised their farms according to the natural orography of their terrieory.
At the left image it's USA. It's fucking disgusting when you remember that they're the fucking first world power.

Just make your suburbs not shit.

I live in the suburbs, there are shops, restaurants, cafes, schools, churches and other services everywhere within walking distance of each other, beautiful parks filled with wildlife in every direction, sports fields, trees and greenery on every street, etc. Streets are winding and buildings vary in their size and appearance.

Most suburbs I've seen have been like that. It's not a choice between dilapidated commie blocks or featureless housing estates.

>>2257884
Okay, so you are retarded.

>>2257884
>Zagreb was founded in 1995
t. You

>>2257903
It could be like that, but unfortunately most suburbs built in the US since the postwar era have followed a really shit model of planning that doesn't do those things

>>2257884
The unified states are obviously, but Italians lived in Italy even if the state of Italy didn't exist you moron

>>2257915
And Americans didn't live in America?

It's been settled ten thousand years my man. Normally I wouldn't pull this card but it kinda seems like you're being Eurocentric here.

>>2257903
>>2257911
Zoning is the real enemy.

>I know, why don't we have a huge blob of two story dwellings with no shops or any other services
>because fuck you

>>2257918
The mudskinned hippies that have left no trace of culture or sophistication?
At least Central and South American hippies have cool stuff, our redskins are nothing but drug addicted slumlords.

>>2257563
Suburbia isn't a nightmare

>>2257945
Yes, that was a serious post that should be dignified with a response

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>>2257787
>>2257761
>seriously implying europeans don't use grid

I can't handle all these dirty unwashed CASUALS

>>2257538
There is no sharing in suburbia. Everyone has their own this or that resource (usually gadgets for the gadgeteers) and they sit idle most of the time.

It's impossible to supply and outfit everyone on earth with a suburbian dwelling and all the greedy trimmings. It is unsustainable. It will bring us to the brink of annihilation, which it has, and quickly will escalate to a point of no return (climate, pollution, nuclear war, plague). People dress up pets, cars, houses with pretty lights: while people go hungry, cold or without shelter. Hard to be more petty, arrogant and full of hate than this.

>>2257671
honestly, I unironically think the left is far superior than the right. having lived in all different levels of planning, grid-based is the easiest and obviously most functional way of life.

everyone responding otherwise has this weird assumption that one is "prettier" or something, but you aren't exactly experiencing these systems from an aerial perspective. if you want things to actually be pretty, aesthetic and feel natural, neither is a good option. live in the fucking woods.

>>2257538
Not gonna lie, this makes me scared and a bit disgusted.

>>2258079
You've never enjoyed going for a drive or a walk through the countryside?

>>2257976
Welcome to 4chan

>>2258079
both are shitty with greenspace management runoff soil fertility and water usage

both styles of planning are going out of fashion. and European forests look unfucking natural and gridded into place because they're all monoculture second growth planted long after the original woods were chopped in like the Medieval period or some shit.

>>2258089
I grew up walking around the countryside. unplanned countryside, too.

>>2258000
>seriously implying it's anywhere near the norm
Why can't I hold all these strawmen

>>2257551
Name one thing wrong with commieblocks.

>>2258634
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point

also they're becoming very expensive to maintain nowadays

>>2258634
You can hear your neighbor taking a massive shit while you're eating dinner.

>>2257563
how is modern capitalism a nightmare?

>>2257538
Aid to Africa

>>2258670
giving aid to africa is a good idea in the long run since their birthrates will decline as their health and stuff increases

>>2257761
Yeah, I know someone who lived in Rhode Island for a few years and he said the streets layouts were completely retarded and unpredictable compared to further west.

>>2258672
We don't know that. I mean it happened in Europe and Asia but that isn't universally applicable.

>>2258663
I also would like to know this.

Modern capitalism is a fucking dream come true compared to communism or any period of human history preceding it.

>>2257551
I like spanish apartments, they're spacious and def take less space than suburbs. Usually they're 4 or five bedroom with a nice dining room, living room, kitchen, laundry and entrance hall. Not so expensive yet convenient.

If capitalism is the most efficient way to use resources then why does planned obsolescence exist? I'm not trying to be snarky it just seems to me a retarded amount of waste

>>2257538
>tfw you'll never live in American suburbia
>ywn date the qt next door
>ywn have a huge backyard and go to movie-like high schools
>ywn go out with your other teen friends and just hang around the neighborhood
>ywn be a kid full of hope and still deeply mentally troubled by the issues imposed on you by American society
>ywn live a life like in hollywood movies

I-I don't know how to feel lads

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>>2257671

>Right is wheat, rye, sorghum, barley, vineyards, olive orchards, cheese sheds, all wrought with care and expertise handed down from generation to generation
>left is just subsidized corn to make corn syrup

>>2258740
>Grew up in Krugersdorp and Johannesburg, South Africa.
>Racism is at large
>Proper ghetto kid
>shit school
>shit life
>lucky my fucking dad is irish so we have a home in Ireland

I fucking wish I lived life like a 2006 American movie

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>>2257551
Till I was like twelve, my family inhabited a similar 'thing'. To be honest, in a better world, these would be the ultimate housing solution for the lower class.
The one I lived in had pretty tight community, it felt like living in a village in the middle of the capital, I still partied there until my late teens, even after we had moved. Not every block was that lucky though.

>tfw ywn drink cheap liquor with your mates surrounded by commie housing blocks again

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Behold, the western european solution!

>>2257796
I grew up in that type of suburb. My childhood was boring and wasted on late 90s and 2000s internet. I'm always jealous when I hear stories from people who grew up in cities or decent suburbs.

>>2259446
Those kids look pretty ripped.

>>2258952
America grows more of all of that stuff though.

Wouldn't you have to pay a lot more to live and work in a European city than you would to work in an American city and live in the suburbs?

Regardless, this thread is silly because it is more a flamewar than an actual discussion of WHY America population distribution is different from Europe. The answer is very interesting.

>>2259446
>Not one single morbidly obese child in sight

Yep, definitely not American children.

>>2259734
That picture looks like it was taken in the 70's, dumb dumb.

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>>2259446
>>2257538
Here's how it sometimes could work nicely in Eastern Europe.

You have the commie blocks in a ring surrounding a large, safe pedestrian area with greenery and various leisure and utility areas. The complex of buildings in the centre is a school and gym. Various shops and supermarkets were immediately outside the ring and easily reachable.

It was very comfy growing up. These days there's a huge problem with parking spots though, since Commie era planning simply didn't expect so many cars.

>>2259808
>These days there's a huge problem with parking spots though, since Commie era planning simply didn't expect so many cars.
Rail. Fucking rail. It's the only long timescale option.

>>2259808
So why do commie blocks usually pave over literally everything within 10 miles?

>>2259823
Rail is too constricted in terms of conditions (e.g. >>2259808 is very hilly) and it only really works across longer distances and moving from a high-density housing hub to a high-density employment hub.

On the local level buses and (where conditions allow) trams work better.

>>2259842
No idea. Do they? It could be for the parking these days.

>>2257538

Jews really seem to hate suburbia. They want White people to live in diverse vibrant areas and get victimised and alienated.

That iconic "little boxes" anti suburb song was written by a San Francisco communist jewess

>>2260027
Muh joos

>>2260027
HURR.

>>2257538
What kind of jobs do people in U.S suburbia have? If you get unemployed what do you do?

>>2260607
Another one... are there bars or town squars in suburbia?

>>2260027
plz, jews are some of the most insufferable square suburbanites

>>2257538
Yeah, how about the fact that a dozen people have more wealth than the rest of humanity combined? And you're complaining about the top of the rest of humanity? Fuck off.

>>2261005
>a dozen people have more wealth than the rest of humanity combined
and? If some turboautist wants to collect billions of good boy points and BTFO normies in the process why is this a bad thing? Are you saying it should be redistributed to plebs so they can waste it on meth and sports cars and other bullshit instead of science and progress?

>>2260615

Most jews in Murica live in NYC LA and Chicago

Also here is the anti suburb song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoXtddNPAM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvina_Reynolds
>Malvina Milder was born in San Francisco to David and Abagail Milder, Jewish and socialist immigrants, who opposed involvement in World War I.


OF COURSE

>>2261022
No, it should be redistributed to good NGOs, instead of languishing in bank accounts. The fact is, it's more money than those niggers could ever hope to spend, while other people could really use the money for shit like food and shelter. If that's not a misallocation of resources, I don't know what is.

>>2261037
Money in bank accounts doesn't just sit there doing nothing. Banks use the money in their accounts to provide loans.

Not that the 1% even have much in the bank; most of their wealth is in stocks or other assets.

>>2261037
>good NGOs

>>2261037
Your moral compass is out of whack. Most people are not good people and if they are they are usually stupid and useless. The only hope for the world is for more wealth to accumulate in the hands of exceptional people who invest it in technology and things.

I often hear "hurr george soros is an evil mastermind", but actually he is guilty of excessive compassion, he gives a lot of money to charity and even got conned by "femen". He really shouldn't, what a waste.

>>2257553
>Who would do a better job of allocating resources? The State?

Suburban sprawl is the result of government policies.

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>>2259808
Communism was pretty good desu.

>>2257551
The whole point of commieblocks (at least where i live) was that they were cheap and fast to build.
This made sense as a lot of my country was devastated after WW2 (not that it was anything better pre-WW2,but after the war anything resembling a country was destroyed) and it was pretty much more better to house people in ugly commieblocks than let the starve and be homeless just so that some may live in beautiful houses.

>>2257563
t. Don Delillo
We get it, you think buying cheap shit at Walmart is worse than starving to death. It's not edgy anymore.

>>2257782
Normies need loud, varied entertainment locales to feel a pulse. They also internalize their childish resentment of not owning a car and thus being unable to go anywhere.

>>2258061
How is it the suburbs that are unsustainable when the other people are constantly starving?

>>2257815
I don't know, what are Trains and Busses? I've never seen them growing up in suburbia.

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>>2261388
>they were cheap and fast to build
That's an understatement. I inherited a 3 room apartment from my grandparents and currently renovating it.
The more I go the more corners cut I find.

>Wonky, uneven, improperly connected walls that have fucking rust seeping though them
>Godawful insulation that makes the place cold even when the radiators are too hot to hold my hand on them
>Originally the bathroom had no tiles whatsoever - just oil based green paint

Not to mention the nightmare when it comes to parking. Originally had ~10 parking spots for a building with over 100 apartments.

Maybe if they didn't force so many people out of villages to increase urbanization they wouldn't have needed to skimp out so much on the commieblocs.

>>2260607
>>2260610
Most of the people who live in suburbs have upper-middle-class, white-collar jobs. Usually, these jobs are either in the city, or in office parks in other suburb. Of course, the suburbs themselves create a fair number of jobs, but almost always far fewer than the employable population. Hence the term "bedroom community". My father and mother are good examples of this. My dad commutes to work in another suburb with several large office buildings. My mom is an elementary school teacher in our hometown (which is pretty exceptional, most teachers don't live in the same communities they work in).

If you're unemployed, you look for another job somewhere in the area. If you live in a large metropolitan area and have a car, there will always be a number of opportunities.

There are bars in most suburbs, but not many. Nothing like the nightlife you find in proper cities. Town squares a pretty rare. Only older communities tend to have those.

>>2257538
The Great Leap Forward.

Lots of vital machinery broken down for raw materials to be shipped halfway across a continent, meet a quota, be reforged out of low quality pig iron, and shipped right back to a now starving populace.

>>2261719
The need for commie blocks came from the combination of the destruction of housing from the war, and the subsequent population boom. That's why no parking. Nobody had cars in the late 50s.

They were planned for demolition after ten years from the beginning, the idea was just to throw something up as quickly as possible to alleviate the housing crisis while real housing was built. Then the Brezhnev era hit and they said 'eh, good enough.'

>>2261815
Thank you.

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>>2261843
>Nobody had cars in the late 50s

Barely anyone had cars until the union collapsed.
Pic related, my home city in Late 70's - early 80's

>>2261187
puke.jpg

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Why are American city planners such shit?

Pic related, a suburb in France. Notice how it's not shit. Everything that's necessary is in walking distance. Commuters can take a train to get to the city.

In South America, it's the same principle. There will be plazas for people to meet. Walkable street sizes. Etc.

In North America, not having a car will completely alienate you from society. No social hubs exist, and parks (if they exist) will be spread out and pretentious.

>>2261418
>every system except neoliberalism causes starvation
>no one starves under capitalism
>critiques of consumerism mean you support starvation.

Nice strawman

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>>2262207
Before the advent of the personal automobile most north american cities were similar to their european counterparts, lots of trains and streetcars, cities were dense and walkable

Feels bad man what could've been

>>2262207
Eurofag here, driving in Europe is the fucking devil because of those ""nice"" suburbs you show in pic related. Cars are cheap enough in North America that you can get one, no problem

>>2262207
Automobiles and space.

Strongtowns has a video on it. They talk about Roads, Streets, and Stroads.

https://www.youtube.com/user/strongtowns/playlists

Europoor cities were originally built for pedestrians (and later cyclists) due to the small space. But Michigan is just a wee bit smaller than the entire UK and has far less people, and you can fit like four of the UK in Texas and a trip from the tip of Maine to the tip of Washington is the same distance as 12 round trips through the tips of Switzerland East to West.

Most areas in the US were either built during the rise of the automobile or were rebuilt to accommodate automobiles. We can get away with this because we have the space to. European nations, however, do not have the space to get away with this.


My solution has always been to adopt a more cultural-ethno-centric, more state less federal, local viewpoint, but then "America first" is apparently controversial so you're technically a bigot for pointing out that our urban planning is garbage.

>>2261895
Must have been a paradise for actual car owners

>>2262421
>drivefag wants convenience at the sake of the well being of society
Kys

>>2261187
That looks overblown, >>2259808 seems pretty comfy.

>>2262506
Not so much, most of the cars were too shitty.

Though if we're talking Eastern Euro cars I've always found the fact used cars were more expensive than new ones (since you had to wait several years to get the latter).

IIRC a used car at 5-6 years had about the same price as a new car, while a used car at <1 year tended to cost two-three times the price of a new car

>>2261443
Normies live in suburbs you stupid fucking retard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wai4ub90stQ

Here's a TED talk about walkable cities for anybody interested

>>2262538
>talk about how your retarded street system is convenient
>move the goalposts when BTFO
Look at this retard and laugh

>>2257782
Vast expanses and shit transport leads to a combined commute mileage that is slowly affecting the climate.

>>2257574
As someone who also grew up in Novi Beograd (blok 29) who now lives in an American suburb, you are full of shit. If it wasn't for the employment situation in Serbia I would go back in a heartbeat

>>2258740
>tfw you lived in American suburbia
>there was no qt next door, just despairing old men getting disability pay
>backyards seem huge for about 3 days, then you get sick of them and realize there is no countryside nearby and no parks in walking distance
>teens have nowhere to even hang out other than their houses with their parents
>no one hopes for anything, 90% of people won't ever even leave town
>every year more and more despairing old people
>hollywood movies are not real

>>2263255
I know this feel.

>no kids your age in the neighborhood
>sister skinned her knee and mom took away the bikes
>had to walk half a mile just to get to a gas station

>>2263255
>no parks in walking distance
Not sure if this is the norm.

>>2263255
You're describing rural america, not suburbia

>>2263289
It doesn't describe my experience and I've lived in the suburbs most of my life.

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>>2257538
FALL IN THE SUBURBS
>wtf
>someone call moneycorp to come get these disgusting leaves off my lawn, it needs to look like a golf course
SPRING IN THE SUBURBS
>wtf why is my lawn dead
>better go to the money store and buy some fertilizer
As an ecologist, a trip to suburbia or a supermarket almost always results in suicidal ideation.

>>2263289
No, it’s definitely a suburb, no farms or countryside, just house after house after house for miles, and the occasional giant steel mill belching smoke everywhere.

>>2263305
leaves on the lawn kills the grass though, prevents the sun coming through

>>2258663
>>2258712
Bad urban planning is not an inherent part of capitalism.

>>2257538
Suburbs are fine as long as you arent stacked up on eachother like newer neighborhoods. Also fuck living 2 hours of your life in traffic everyday.

>>2258740
If you're interested in knowing what suburban life was actually like for somebody in Ohio ask away.

>>2263327
If I wear sandals how long would it take for me to get Hep C or AIDS from a dirty needle?

>>2263333
Depends on where you walk

>>2263314
It keeps the grass alive and healthy in the winter and replenishes soil carbon.
Having a lawn with a single species of grass on it or a lone tree is disgusting and sad practice in itself. They don't even grow food with it. It's like they think land is empty space and food comes from a store.
Being raised in an artificial environment robs people of their humanity. What really bothers me is I used to think it was normal. Thanks for always reading me animal encyclopedias mom, if I hadn't been into biology before I could read I might have ended up with a fucked up worldview.

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>>2263305
I'll never understand the perfect green grass meme, shit is overrated and boring

I think even overgrown unkept lawns look better

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>>2263348
I'll also never understand why people are so obsessed with dandelion extermination

Dandelions did nothing wrong other than look cool

>>2263348
I was always that way. I would force my dad to not now part of the back lawn so I had a place to catch bugs.
The real fucked up part is all the roads and fences dividing the landscape, eeeeheaheahe

>>2263359
>but.but there a weed! Monsanto says so.
And there pretty dank sautéed with spinach and trunup greens and make decent wine if you if you have time to fuck with it and nothing better to wine

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>tfw no one has created a hive city yet

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>>2263687
My chummer

>>2263359
Not to mention the only somewhat viable source of natural latex in the Old World.

An alternative history without the New World could try and use dandelions for rubber production.

There are some breeding programs ongoing even today to improve the yield and quality. Dandelions could be to the rubber tree what the sugar beet is to sugar cane.

>>2261469
>he didn't have a full subway rail system servicing his subdivision
I didn't realize I was sharing a board with fucking poorfags.

>>2261463
I think his point was that there's no way for everyone on earth to have a nice 2 floor suburban house along with 1/5 acre of lawn, a car or two and cheap water and electricity. There's simply not enough good land to go around, among other resources.

>>2257538
I live in a city now that is by the model most people think is "correct" where the businesses and stores are every few blocks and the houses are surrounding them.

It's trash. In the suburbs there were no homeless people and less crime. Here we have a lot of vehicle break-ins and home invasions while people are at work. I would prefer to live as far from the city as possible, in fact when I looked for my house I wouldn't get anything near businesses, stores (especially liquor), gas stations, or bus stops, anything city related. That's where riffraff hangs out. In the suburbs the only people there are there because they live there, there are only houses.

It's in our best interest to keep houses and shit homeless people like separate, at least not within shopping cart push distance of each other. The sea of houses protects you from it.

>>2263947
>we should sacrifice quality of life for safety
Urban planners who think this way are exactly why suburbs are shit.

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>>2263687
Actually...

Search "Kowloon walled city." Amazes me how people could live like that.

>>2263956
Safety is part of quality of life.

>>2263992
No shit, but only one part of it. Giving up all the other parts for it just results in a sheltered population pursuing comfort at the expense of community and beauty.

The real problem, though, is American race issues, which make the cities unsafe to begin with and so precipitate the mass movement to the suburbs.

>>2263969
Whats worse is that it was torn down.
Why would anyone want to tear down something so beautiful and natural instead of studying it?

>>2264019
>pursuing comfort
Nothing wrong with that, it's called raising the standard. I don't want to live in a low standard area.

I prefer rural/outskirts areas, but suburbs are ok. But get too close to the city and you're in shit. This place though is basically city, suburb, city, suburb every few blocks and it's fucking terrible. We're basically sitting ducks for junky shitheads who want to steal our shit. You can't escape it. I remember seeing an infograph saying that's how cities should be designed, total BS.

>>2264024
>Why would anyone want to tear down something so beautiful and natural instead of studying it?
Ask yourself where the city was located and you'll find the answer to your previous question.

nothing wrong with growing up in an American suburb. They are safe places to live.

>>2264052
>I am the embodiment of Nietzsche's "Last Man" and there is nothing wrong with that

>>2257538
The only thing I actually hate about suburbia is home owners' associations. It's just an excuse for neighbors to spy on and rat out each other for stupid inconveniences.

>>2263947
>>2263956
There's a mile wide difference between an American suburb and Kowloon. Suburbs would be better if they were at least a bit more dense.

I lived in an Orlando Suburb for half a year, shit was unbearable. I never interacted with my neighbors and I stayed in all day because everything was five miles apart. The densest place I ever lived was an apartment complex in Brooklyn, but it wasn't that bad as a kid. (Halloween indoors was fuckin' fun.)

>>2264055
>implying
okay dude I get your point LOL
At the end of the day people don't want their kids getting stabbed.

>>2264019
>race issues which make the cities unsafe
I agree. Here we have a diverse demographic of shitheads. We have biker gangs (primarily white but some Mexican) who just want to get into bar fights and make some money selling drugs. Then you have the white junkies who are just crazy schizos who don't hurt or rob people usually. But gang and drug issues with black and brown populations are an entirely different issue. Black gangs will kill you for walking in their neighborhood wearing the wrong color, or just for no reason after stealing the $5 in your wallet. They risk life in prison for pocket change, absolutely no regard for cost-benefit analysis. Their drug addicts are fucking savage and commit heinous crimes. Also no regard for cost-benefit analysis, they'll break into people's houses while they're home despite this being America.

I would much rather prefer to live in a trashy white area than a "minority" area which seem to all be trashy.

>>2264069
>absolutely no regard for cost-benefit analysis
Eh, cops don't really go into their neighborhoods and when they do 99.9% of blacks refuse to say anything unless it was their family getting shot. $1 for a bullet for $5 with little risk involved seems like it's a pretty good cost-benefit analysis.

>>2264077
Yeah, it's really hard to solve a murder when the victim and perp are unrelated. Most murders in the inner city go unsolved.

>>2264069
Hey, it ain't that bad. (And I'm saying that with keen, in-person knowledge of goonery.)

Then again, I've only lived in Caribbean and East Coast ghettos.

>>2264077
>cops don't really go into their neighborhoods

We spend most of our shift in those areas. Where do you think the calls are coming from? Shitty areas is where shit goes down. We have discretion but we have to respond to every call (assuming it's an actual call for service, sometimes this schizo lady just calls to curse at the operators)

>>2264102
>We
You must live in Phoenix or some nice city. There are definitely neighborhoods in Chicago, LA, New York, Detroit, etc. that are unofficial no-go zones for most police where calls are either never responded to or the response time is several hours later. It's not even a secret.

>>2264102
Also on that note, they do get caught. Quite often. They're totally dumb when it comes to interrogation tactics. But that whole "no snitching" thing is true though. If I respond to a fight and ask around to find out what happened, they'll say shit like "I just got here" "I was in the bathroom" etc. One time I was at a call for a fight at a bar and like 30+ guys said they were in the bathroom. I'm like all fucking 30 of you were not in that one stall bathroom at the same goddamn time.

>>2264130
NYC here. Things haven't been that bad in a loooooong ass time. Even the worst places (Brownsville, E. NY, Coney Island, etc.) are lightweight compared to how any random neighborhood was when I was a kid.

>>2264149
Thanks gentrification.

>>2264150
fellow phoenix-bro! I love out city symbol

>>2263289
He's absolutely describing fucking suburbia.

>>2264153
>Thanks, >America getting way fucking safer out of nowhere in the 90s

The calming down came way before poor people were pushed out. The process was:

>White Flight
>City's tax base gone
>City goes to shit
>Rents plummet
>City calms down
>Low-Crime Neighborhoods + low rent = no brainer real estate
>Rich people move in
>Market forces push poor people out

The free market means poor people can't afford to not live in a shithole. Unfortunately, where "shithole" used to mean "crime and piss", it now means "2 hours away from where you work, with fuck all for transit"

>>2263947
What the fuck nice-ass place do you live where you have no crime?

Around here, all the white and jewish kids get a stick up their asses about how good they are and break into peoples' houses like it's some kind of contest. There's no real police force because the township was created as a way for rich people to control how much the city taxed them, so instead we have to rely on the Sheriffs who're always at the very least thirty minutes away.

There's only old motherfuckers and their piece-of-shit kids out here. It's the lowest kind of sociality.

>>2264176
>Unfortunately

>>2264175
No he's not, that must've been a shitty suburb.

>Old people tend to live in rural areas, young families in the suburbs
>There are plenty of parks, you can visit multiple ones within an hour of walking
>You explore by exploring different neighborhoods and parks or going to the stores, all of which are social events
>Plenty of qts because there's other young families and kids your age

At least this was my experience as a kid.

>>2257574
Novi BG is a e s t h e t i c af brate, imagine living in a shithole like Obrenovac

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>>2257538
Are you implying that everyone should live in huge residential towers owned by the wealthy in some sort of neo-feudalistic society???

>>2264176
That means Shitholes are better than they were used to be? That's good

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>>2257538
I figure you guys would find this interesting, it's a town I live near in the suburbs of Philadelphia. As you can tell, the town was built around the railroad, splitting the town in half. The railroad's location decides the towns voting wards, zoning, and roads.

>>2257538
J.H. Kunstler has a point about modern art and suburbia, but he keeps insisting that Peak Oil will destroy the automobile culture even through there's no reason to believe we can't transition to electric cars fast enough, and Peak Oil might not be real anyway

>>2257538
I'd say yes.

>>2266884
Oil is about 40 times more efficient by weight than batteries in terms of energy storage.

I suspect that hydrogen is the only viable option, being that all you need is water and electricity.

>>2257606
suburbs are the easiest at being comfy enough, but the maximum comfy level is higher in both the city and the country

>>2266428
This one of those "wrong side of the tracks" towns?

>>2264683
>implying you can't own your own condominium
>Implying some people don't rent their houses in Suburbia
the legal structure of society really has nothing to do with suburban sprawl

>>2264149
wtf I love Giuliani now

>>2266884
Electric cars are far more polluting than modern petrol engines.

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>>2261463
Because the starving people's natural socio-ecological systems were taken to grow food and produce goods for suburban families.
Ever been to the suburbs? How many things there came from the suburbs?
The only reason suburbs aren't starving is there is still a small amount of resources to exploit. Suburbs are badlands that don't know it yet, pic related.

>>2258061
>escalate to the point of now return.
Yeah, that will probably happen sometime in the early 1980s

>>2266884
Cars are not viable in the future .
We ought to be organizing ourselves in a way that puts us in position to remove the vast majority of roads right now if we are planning on surviving. Earthscape connectivity is so fucking imporant.
But it looks like we will continue to "improve infrastructure" so we can grow the economy.

>>2267914
That's why bicycle/feet masterrace.

>>2266912
No, hydrogen is not viable at all. Crashing your car turns it into a fucking bomb.

>>2258740

I lived that life. It's not what it's cracked up to be.

>>2268140
of course if its all you've ever known it'll seem boring and shit.

>>2258712
Except for that 1/3rd of our population that lives no better than the average commieblock inhabitant.

>>2261815
wtf?
There are like 20 bars in my shithole town, maybe its a midwest thing (german immigrants, drinking culture)

>>2267905
Crime went down all over the Western world at around the same time. Giuliani took credit for it in NYC and our conservatives treat him as the local Reagan, despite being a massive piece of shit who moralfagged over Museum exhibits, tried to cover up police abuse, and got a lot of firefighters killed.

>>2268107
This can be solved with a hearty application of "don't be a wuss"

Also, by using LH2 instead of compressed hydrogen.

>>2257889
Simpler and easier to measure the land using the rectangular survey system.
The metes and bounds system is an archaic piece of shit that uses antiquated measuring techniques in concurrence with that of--how many furlongs can an oxen plow in one day.

>>2262299
>that image
It's funny because while actual downtown Toronto is still nice, the massive suburb ring around it is shit. For one, Canadian mass transportation is one of the worst systems in the world.
I had a freind who lived in one of the outer rings. You would have to walk about 30 minutes down street with no sidewalks and across a highway to get to the nearest bus stop, from which point it was about another half hour bus ride to get to the nearest actual terminal where you could catch an actual bus that would go to the city or a different terminal.
It was hell, and most of the new suburbs are just like it.

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>>2268245
>t. never paid taxes

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>>2268361
Toronto is an abomination, worse commute times than fucking Los Angles, people will pay 1 million dollars for some mcmansion and spend 4 hours a day driving to and from work, ponzi real estate market, insane ethnic segregation, population obsessed with career progression at all costs, what a miserable city

>>2268381
Notice I said actual downtown Toronto?
That doesn't include any of the post-amalgamation parts, or the suburbs. The rest is the worst, arguably one of the worst cities in all of north america.

>>2268245
I can't help but notice that Chicago didn't go the same way New York did.

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>>2268229
At least ALL of our population doesn't live in commieblock tier conditions

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
They're all made out of ticky-tacky,
And they all look just the same.

And the people in houses
who went to the university,
where they were put in boxes,
And they all came out the same.
There's doctors and lawyers
And business executives,
They're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf-course,
And drink their Martini dry,
And they all have pretty children,
And the children go to school.
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
They all get put in boxes
And they all come out the same.

And the boys go into business,
And marry, raise a family,
And they all get put in boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
Yeah a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.

>>2268409
https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-75-mr-chapo-goes-to-washington-12217

Listen to 12:20.

>>2258663
>>2258712
>Modern Capitalism is great!

>Ignores the fact that the vast majority of people live in absolute squalor under capitalism.

>>2268309
But it has nothing to do with landscape ecology and is just fucking retarded.
>simpler and easier
And burgers wonder why they are the laughing stock of the civilized world.

>>2268703
>Ignores the fact the masses live far better under capitalism than any other system

>>2268766

>implying that capitalism can be reduced to a single monolithic system
>implying that the states with the highest standards of living aren't mixed economies in northern europe

>>2268495
No but maybe they should. Forcing destitution on all these FYGM/NIMBY-types might change their perspective on wealth allocation

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>>2259823
>Rail. Fucking rail. It's the only long timescale option.

Maybe for Europe and China and other hive nations but for America, electric / hybrid cars are the only option.

We've simply put too much time, money and effort into a massive road system to served every corner of our laid-back spread-out suburban lifestyle to scrap it all and convert to rail, which just can't service that kinda society effectively anyways.

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>>2262448
>We can get away with this because we have the space to. European nations, however, do not have the space to get away with this.

"In Europe, a 100 miles is a long distance. In America, 100 years is a long time."

-- Somebody --

>>2268779
lol, so northern Euopean nations aren't having their socialist programs collapse in their mixed economy??? ooooohhhhhhhhhhh

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>>2262207
>In North America, No social hubs exist

Nonsense, in America there are "social hubs" literally on every corner for any kinda socializing imaginable.

>>2259431
We can't have tight communities in a multiracial country like America. Inclusion and tolerance are unfortunately virtues to many white people and adding others into the group changes the whole vibe and purpose.

>>2261157
That bastard Jew supports anti white causes financially.

>>2263269
Sounds like some awful helicopter parenting in the suburbs where kids grow to be pussies.

I came to this thread to say NYC is turning into a Hong Kong shithole where every Chad Stacy and Tyrone with a college education is paying $1500 for basically a room

I honestly hope to god the city goes back to being Detroit tier and all the rich white fucks go back to sticking to park avenue and all the greedy landlords and real estate agents go back to starving to death

ok bye

>>2257671
>ayy lmao fuck geography, soil erosion is a communist myth just throw up an additional ton of fertilizer on the tractor Cleetus
Americans deserve nothing but painful death for what they did to their country.

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>>2269389

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>Suburban Americans will never be able to take a 5 minutes stroll to the local run-down pub to hang out with the lads because of zoning restrictions
Laughing @ you

>>2269225
>Nonsense, in America there are "social hubs" literally on every corner for any kinda socializing imaginable.


Which misses the point of having a central communal hub of social activity.

The atomization of society is a huge problem. Especially with mass immigration.

>>2262421
This is true, I never really appreciated the huge straight lanes criss-crossing my home city the commies built until I visited Bruxelles.
The difference is enormous, you need at least an hour to get out of Bruxelles because there are no straight lanes and you need to navigate small streets in order to get out.

>>2269401
>we're 6th largest consumers
kek not surprised at all
Never said our farmers know what they're doing either, in fact they're all colossal retards that should be stripped of their property rights, but at least their ancestors that patched up the land did.

>>2264056
>disliking Homeowners association
Only because you haven't met the apartment block Soviet yet

>>2267038
Kind of. The town on the right side of the tracks is a lot more crummy than the left, especially since the top right of the town is the industrial district.

>>2261187
I somehow like this, all it needs is a wall to keep the niggers out

>>2257538
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_vVlk_YD6E

>>2257782
massive infrastructure and maintenance costs result in poor services and are driving cities to insolvency

>>2268402
I live in Toronto and just got a job in Mississauga. Kill me senpai

>>2268381
old toronto is pretty good desu