20TH CENTURY PRESIDENTIAL POWER-RANKING >True Statesman tier

>>2243780
*Presidents are not ranked within tiers

>>2243780
Can't sense any bias in this at all

>>2243780
>Kennedy
Barring everything else wrong with your list, Kennedy is massively overrated and took the CMC far beyond anything close to what was warranted, and then solved it by doing exactly what Stevenson told him to do in the very beginning. He was horrible if only due to bad advice and inexperience.

(Not to mention sleeping with possibly an East German spy and other shit)

>>2243805
Also this. Your picks are presidents you like, not presidents who were good.

>>2243780
>Wilson
>Good
>Ever

Wilson was fucking Buchanan tier in terms of foreign policy. His spinelessness directly led to the rise of Nazi Germany and the Bolsheviks. Had he stood up to the fucking frogs and sent actual fucking aid to the White Russians then WWII would have never even happened.

>>2243831
>presidents can be ranked by objective merit without any bias

This list is so incredibly incredibly wrong. PBS-tier shit and a product of the worst kind of historical myths.
We have these presidential threads on a regular basis and honestly it's getting really boring. The last one which started with Eisenhower's pic was good. It was like yesterday.

>Nixon
>failure
Pick one
>Started the EPA
>war on cancer
>lowered the debt
>created better relations with China
>ended the draft
>ended segregation in southern schools
>promoted gender equality
>good healthcare plan

His only flaws were Cambodia and war on drugs

>True statesman
>FD Roosevelt
kek

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>George W. Bush.
>Inaugurated January 20th, 2001.
>20th Century.

>Obama.
>20th Century.

>>2243908
Because the list is a bait.

ENGLISH KINGS POWER-RANKING

>True Statesman tier - Strengthened and empowered the country, or successfully shepherded it through a major crisis
Æthelstan
Edward the Confessor

>Middling tier - Maintained a steady course, did not rock the boat
Edgar the Peaceful
Edmund I


>Poor tier - Failed to step up when presented with a major challenge
Eadred
Edward the Martyr
Eadwig

>Failure tier - Actively damaged the country
Edmund II
Harold Godwinson
Æthelred the Unready
Edgar Ætheling

>>2243967
Where's Alfred the great

>>2244014
Technically he only held the crown of Wessex

>>2243780
Swap Wilson and Nixon and you have my list.

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>>2243780
>maintained a steady course
>Hoover

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>>2243887
>created better relations with China
You know, I've been thinking, if Nixon never opened up to China, would we still have a lot of manufacturing jobs or do you think we would have found another country with few labor laws to make our stuff for us? Granted, we wouldn't have pre WWII standards of production with the whole Made in Japan and Made in Taiwan trend, but Japan seemed to get better labor laws, hence why factories don't outsource there anymore, and Taiwan is a hell of a lot smaller than the PRC.

>>2243887
EPA is bad now but I heard the 70s pollution-wise was atrocious. But I agree Nixon is underrated, his paranoia brought him down when it didn't need to

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le nixon was bad meme

>>2244159
He did prolong the war in Vietnam before he ended it and expanded government.

How can you shit on LBJ? Like 80% of our modern social programs are owed to him. Vietnam was a shit-show, sure, but literally every politician was dogging for it - even Kennedy planned to at least invade Cambodia.

>>2243967
>Harold Godwinson
He died defending his country from not one, but two foreign invades who didn't have claimants to the thrown. The only damage he did was because he couldn't defeat William the Bastard.

>>2243780
>Maintained a steady course, did not rock the boat
>Obama, Hoover

Better be bait

>>2244159
You can achieve great things as a president, but if you burgle one political opponent's office don't be surprised if you are remembered as the burgler president

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>>2243780
>Wilson
fucker achieved none of his goals in a conflict that was not his own, not to mention completely botched the handling of Pancho Villa and ended up making an ass of himself.
To top it off, the only thing he did accomplish with the League of Nations was despised by the majority of Americans.

>>2244072
They would go where they are going now, largely, India and the parts of Africa that aren't uninhabitable shitholes (inb4 'so all of it').

We might not extract resources at such a ridiculous rate as the Chinese, but it would probably be around or about the same worldwide inflow-outflow.

>>2244213
And everyone who was in it.

Remember the time he got fucking owned so hard at Versailles that he literally became a gibbering, stroke-prone mess?

Real fucking leadership material, there.

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>>2243780
v proud of /his/ for railing on Wilson in this thread instead of falling into modern partisanship and blasting obama

>>2244202
>didn't have claimants to the thrown
Edward the Confessor promised the throne to William. Harold was a usurper.

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>>2243780
20TH CENTURY PRESIDENTIAL POWER-RANKING
True Statesman tier - Strengthened and empowered the country, or successfully shepherded it through a major crisis
>Truman
>T. Roosevelt
>Reagan

Middling tier - Maintained a steady course, did not rock the boat
>McKinley
>Obama
>GHW Bush
>Clinton
>Eisenhower
>Wilson
>F.D. Roosevelt
>Kennedy

Poor tier - Failed to step up when presented with a major challenge
>Taft
>Harding
>Coolidge
>Ford
>Carter

>Failure tier - Actively damaged the country
>GW Bush
>Johnson
>Nixon

>True Statesman tier - Strengthened and empowered the country, or successfully shepherded it through a major crisis
Truman
T. Roosevelt
FD Roosevelt

>Middling tier - Maintained a steady course, did not rock the boat
McKinley
GHW Bush
Clinton
Eisenhower
Kennedy
Nixon
Taft

>Poor tier - Failed to step up when presented with a major challenge
Harding
Ford
Carter
Wilson

>Failure tier - Actively damaged the country
Johnson
Hoover
Coolidge
Reagan

>>2244229
>Reagan
>good
Look he wasn't Satan like black people tend to paint him, but he was a shitty leader. Him being a staunch anti-commie doesn't change his generally shitty policies.

>>2244225
That was more than likely made up by William. That and Harold was the elected and agreed upon king by the nobles because the Anglo-Saxons, being Germanic, had succession work that way and wasn't just succession based off who the king chose.

>>2243908
>what is the Long 20th Century
Fucking ignorant brainlets

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>>2244237
Coolidge did nothing wrong, and there was nothing he could have done to prevent the great depression. In fact the great depression wouldn't have been nearly as terrible as it was without Hoover's disastrous economic policies (and FDR's continuation of said policies).

>>2244255
>elected
>king
Absolutely barbaric. No wonder William was given the mandate of heaven.

>>2244251
He brought down the Soviet Union and stopped a 17% Carter inflation dead in its tracks. He literally brought America back to the top, and ended Communism with the arms race.

>>2244263
Coolidge laid the path for Hoover and failed in that he really didn't do anything to stop the growing problems that were arising.

FDR did continue a lot of Hoover's policies but it was his WWII leadership and the shear amount of useful programs he started that really makes him good.

>>2244265
>he doesn't vote for kings
Absolutely barbarian, fucking latins.

>>2244288
The Soviet Union was already on the way down and he laid the ground work for a huge portion of the problems existing modern day America and American politics.

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>>2244195
>Like 80% of our modern social programs are owed to him.

That's exactly why he deserves to be shit on, anon, some of the most destructive programs in US history

>>2243780
>Failure tier
>Nixon
He was one of the best 20th century Presidents and greatly helped America's interests.

He's only hated because of a retarded scandal that would barely even make the headlines if it happened today.

>>2244265
Bet this faggot follows primogeniture.

>>2244288
>brought down USSR
they did that on their own.
>ended Communism
where

>>2244251
He had catastrophic domestic policies (raising deficit, giving amnesty to illegals, destroying domestic manufacturing etc), but his foreign policies were awesome - yes including the Contras. He's 50/50 to me.

>>2244302
Hoover did a total 180 from Coolidge's benign neglect. It only appears that Coolidge did nothing because Hoover's economic interventionism prolonged the depression. It started off as a market correction that would have fixed itself, given the chance.

>>2244333
Interesting point. I'll look into that.

>>2244159
>>2244179
The worst thing Nixon did was prolong the Vietnam war despite saying he wouldn't. I don't know why anyone would put that first on his list of achievments

>>2243839
>His spinelessness directly led to the rise of Nazi Germany and the Bolsheviks. Had he stood up to the fucking frogs and sent actual fucking aid to the White Russians then WWII would have never even happened.
Wasn't he recovering from a massive stroke by the time the WWI aftermath was going on.

>>2243887
>His only flaws were Cambodia and war on drugs
And being so paranoid that he basically forever tarnished the office of the Presidency to the public eye.

>>2244159
>>2244207
>>2243887
Don't forget he also ended the Bretton Woods system which in turn decoupled real wages from productivity.

>>2244122
>I heard the 70s pollution-wise was atrocious
There were times in LA when it felt like my lungs were being beaten from the inside.

>>2244377
If you mean present day, then alot of that is the fucked up level of dryness in the air.
but yeah some days were have pretty low quality air here

>>2244258
The Long 20th Century list would include all presidents.

>>2244265
Nothing wrong with an electorate as long as the commoners aren't let in.

>>2244288
>and ended Communism with the arms race
Communism ended Communism, Reagan simply killed its deformed FAS baby in its crib.
Also, there's an anecdote which ties the start of Gorbachev's reforms to his visit to an American supermarket destroying his faith in communism, but I saw it here so there's an over 100% chance it's bullshit.

>>2244387
>If you mean present day, then alot of that is the fucked up level of dryness in the air.
>but yeah some days were have pretty low quality air here
No, in the 70's. It was terrible. I heard it was even worse in the Inland Empire, that's where our wind blows and and collects against the mountains.

>>2243780

I don't know what's worse: your tier-choices, or your understanding of how "power rankings" work.

>>2243780
it's really funny since Nixon saved your country and Reagan cemented USA world domination. Still FD Roosevelt was probably the best

Truman was ok, but JFK was a shit president, and Nam is mostly his fault

>>2244251
People seem to forget that conservatives like Reagan for his economic, not his social policies

Even fucking forbes admits that:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2014/09/11/sorry-obama-fans-reagan-did-better-on-jobs-and-growth/&refURL=http://www.forbes.com/&referrer=http://www.forbes.com/

>>2244229
Better, add Nixon to true statesman, as well as FDR.

FDR still helped pull America back from the depression with his economic policies and work programs, (Civillian Conservation Corps, Food Stamps, Social Security). They HELPED PEOPLE WHEN THEY NEEDED IT, and are now rightfully coming to a close with my generation, the people who won't benefit from it.


Nixon still opened up negotiation with China despite Watergate, and paved the way for cheap overseas manufacturing. You could argue that this is a negative aspect and leave him in the failure tier, because jobs of jobs leaving the country, and monopolization. But from a purely economical point of view, it still allowed almost EVERY corporation in America to cut costs in production, make more profit, and drive our economy to what it is today.

The problem I have with these lists is that they look at the individual ranking of a President through the lens of the current time, and fail to incorporate how their actions effected the American people at the time he was in power.

Should a leader not be judged by the effects his actions had on his own people, rather then people that he never lead?

>>2244229
>implying Reagan deserves above Mid-tier at best

>>2243780
Move Hoover to Failure, maybe move TR down to Mid

>>2243780
Nice bait libfag

>>2243780
>Nixon isn't top-tier

shit list

Not an Amerifat, and I could pick the presidents that actively strengthened their country, prevented major crises and had a lasting legacy. I would pick:

Washington

Jackson

Lincoln

FDR


All the other presidents were not that important long term. Sure you have Water gate Nixon, and Cuban missile Kennedy, but these did not depend solely on the character of those presidents or their leadership.

US presidents are made to be by amerifats far more important than they really are, in the mid 20th and after century they barely did anything other hand in executive orders their bureaucrat underlings or corporate masters wrote.

>>2244644
>and Cuban missile Kennedy, but these did not depend solely on the character of those presidents or their leadership
Almost all his advisors were pushing hard for invading Cuba, Kennedy was the only one who didn't want to be in a second morass and risk having Russia invade like Turkey or something.

>>2244653
I take that back, I don't think Vietnam was a morass at this point, but the rest of my point stands.

>>2244653

None of this would have happened if Kennedy wasn't so gung ho about fighting communism and allowing the Turkey blunder to happen in the first place.

Kennedy was far from this defensive paragon of virtue they make him out to be and had a quite big idea of himself. If all of his advisors said that, then it shows with what kind of stupid people he surrounded himself with, people who thought a nuclear war was winnable. Of course no one believed that and Kennedy wasn't going to do jack shit in Cuba anyway.

>>2244288
>He brought down the Soviet Union
You're right, a single US president brought down the USSR. It totally wasn't the fact that Communism is an unsustainable system and the USSR collapsed on its own weight.

Honestly, I think saying "Reagan brought down the USSR" is an insult to some of the better Cold War presidents like Kennedy and Nixon.

>>2244696
>Kennedy
>not the most overrated hack of the 20th century known only for dying and nearly plunging the entire world into nuclear war after the Bay of Bullshit put cuba firmly in soviet hands

"b-b-b-but muh civil rights" as if it wasn't inevitable anyway after Eisenhower opened the gates

>>2244668
>and had a quite big idea of himself.

He was hyped up on meth all the time (muh addison's) and that tends to lead to ego problems, if you've ever encountered meth heads for an extended period of time. Also his hypersexual tendencies.

>>2244709
He was good looking.

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Putting Obama above Regan

>>2244737
*Reagan

>>2243780
You forgot Lincoln

>>2244159
>giving money to kikes
>hosting a dinner
>funding saudis
gr8 achievements

>>2244288
>brought down communism
but that's Brezhnev's achievement

>>2244421
>start of Gorbachev's reforms to his visit to an American supermarket destroying his faith in communism, but I saw it here so there's an over 100% chance it's bullshit
Not Gorbachev, it was Yeltsin.

http://blog.chron.com/thetexican/2014/04/when-boris-yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-clear-lake/

>>2243780
truman was a buffoon

The president should have much less power

>20th century presidents
>includes Bush Jr and Obama

>>2244887
The president already doesn't have power. Millennials delude themselves into thinking their first election is more important than it actually is and the real political ramifications aren't due to the shifting of the overton window

>>2244901
>implying America doesn't have an extremely strong executive thanks to all the powers congress has delegated to bureaucrats

>>2244901
>overton window exists

>>2244949
>>2244914
>muh first election so relevant

You both understand very, very little about American government. I suggest reading a book.

>>2243887
>promoted gender equality
This can be viewed as a mistake.

Reagan was absolute shit and created cancer that is at an all time high now

>>2245266
you misspelled "FDR"

>>2244352
His stroke was in 1920, well after Versailles was finalized.

>>2243780
>Obama
>GW Bush
>20th century

>>2243780
I'm not sure how Obama isn't at the bottom. I can't think of something that actually benefits the (taxpaying) public

Also
>giving the internet to NATO so it isn't protected by the 1st anymore
>massively expanding federal power
>unprecedented amount of executive orders
>pardoning druggo pieces of shit without mandating rehab programs or monitoring
The list goes on.

Wilson's grand plan was using America's financial & industrial superiority and the European allies dependence on it to impress his will on the peacemaking process in a way that reflected his 14 points and "Peace without Victory". Wilson imagined that as the war continued the French & British would be so indebted to American loans and so dependent on American foodstuffs and industrial production that Wilson could wield that supremacy as a weapon and the Europeans would become entirely subordinate partners in the peace process.

Ironically however, when the US entered the conflict it helped bring the war to its conclusions before those economic weapons could fully mature, and America failed to achieve the primacy at the peace table that he envisioned.

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>>2244217
>Remember the time he got fucking owned so hard at Versailles that he literally became a gibbering, stroke-prone mess?
W-what?

>no one puts HW Bush in the true statesman tier
The 25-year limit falls after the Gulf War now guys. He's a good president.

>>2244333
> It started off as a market correction that would have fixed itself, given the chance.

Probably not. I assume you're going to bring up the 'worse' economic downturn in 1921 as evidence that had Hoover sat on his hands then everything would have gone back to normal in no time, but the 1921 recession & the 1929 crash were worlds apart for a number of reasons. Mainly Germany, the second largest economy in the world, had just essentially dropped out of world financial markets and international commerce ground to a halt, combine this with the dust bowl and depressed agricultural prices for the last 10 years meaning you have millions of aimless migrants pushed off farms as well as an almost complete collapse of the banking sector who are rushing to foreclose on farms & families alike to try and recoup losses to stave off the bank runs and a huge drop in demand for industrial production laying off MILLIONS of workers simultaneously. The Great Depression would have been much worse had Hoover & FDR not intervened

>>2244644
The CMC was the greatest existential crisis America has ever faced. I'd give Kennedy some credit for stepping up to the plate. He made a deal with the Soviets to remove American missiles from Turkey. A lesser president might have acted more bullheaded and caused a catastrophe.

Obama is way better than middle of the road.

>>2243780
wilson was literally the worst president of all time. fucking noose yourself autist

>>2244213
and he created the fed

>>2246723
In other words, did nothing wrong.

>the guy who won 49 of 50 states on inspiration power alone and actually made "America Great Again" laying the groundwork for a prosperous 90's isn't in statesman tier alongside fucking John F Kennedy

you can't even try to hide bias

>>2247210
Reaganboos need to fuck off with their delusions. His regulation stripping ruined this country.

>>2244653
>Almost all his advisors were pushing hard for invading Cuba
This isn't even remotely true, even in at the start when the hawks were more prominent. And after the first few days the blockade proponents started gaining a lot of ground.

>Kennedy was the only one who didn't want to be in a second morass and risk having Russia invade like Turkey or something.
This too, if literally no one else, Stevenson was hugely pushing for the trade, not to mention all the doves (from the start I might add). In fact, Kennedy initially wanted to conduct air strikes on the SAM site, paving the way to a larger assault, and even mobilized a large number of troops in preparation for an invasion. Besides that, both Turkey and Cuba were strategically insignificant in any conflict as both would have been the first taken and held after a nuclear exchange. In addition the Jupiter missiles in Turkey were already being pushed for removal by Kennedy and the weapons in Cuba did nothing to change the balance of power as it did nothing to compromise the United States nuclear capabilities, first-strike or otherwise.

>>2246115
>The CMC was the greatest existential crisis America has ever faced.
It would have done quite literally nothing to affect the United States except remove the possibility of invading Cuba, which we pledged not to do regardless. The only reason it was a threat was because Kennedy was inexperience and acted poorly.

>He made a deal with the Soviets to remove American missiles from Turkey.
After blockading Cuba and pushing NATO/US/OAS to the brink of war, despite being told on day one to do the trade. And he traded something he'd been wanting gone for a while anyway.

>>2244668
> If all of his advisors said that, then it shows with what kind of stupid people he surrounded himself with, people who thought a nuclear war was winnable.
The war was extremely winnable for NATO. The United States at the time of the CMC had ~144 sub launched missiles, ~200 land-based ICBMs, ~700 B-52 and B-58 long range bombers, ~700 B-47 bombers able to reach Russia with aerial refueling, and ~400 attack bombers currently placed on carriers around the globe. Compare that to this. By the end of the year there would have been ~30 medium-range bombers, ~35 MRBMs, and ~4 ICBMS in Cuba, and the USSR would have ~100 ICBMs plus significantly fewer and inferior delivery methods available (ie having zero aircraft carriers). Note that I haven't added any NATO numbers to this.

>Of course no one believed that and Kennedy wasn't going to do jack shit in Cuba anyway.
See above, he was preparing to conduct air strikes and a follow-up invasion before and during the blockade. Plus he'd already tried to overthrow Castro before.

>Kennedy was far from this defensive paragon of virtue they make him out to be
This however is complete correct, imo it's largely because he get assassinated.