Does nationalism ever typically turn out well for a country?

Nationalism is a deification of the State

No

>>2240106
Japan says yes

>>2240106
Nationalism creates a need for justification of the actions of the people and the state since it (typically) based on a mythic ideal. This creates autism and problems. But the better term for it would be ''Ultra Nationalism''.

>Nationalism is a complex, multidimensional concept involving a shared communal identification with one's nation. It is expressed as a political ideology oriented towards achieving and maintaining communal autonomy, and sometimes sovereignty, over a territory of historical significance to the group.

Before ''national awareness'', there is a commonly acknowledged sharing of language culture and other traits within a group. Nationalism in it's basest form would be to segregate and attempt to preserve said group within a nation-state.

>>2240116
You're thinking of patriotism. Nationalism is a deification of ethnicity.

>inb4 """civic nationalism"""
Complete oxymoron

>>2240765
Got them two nukes.

File: free_europe.jpg (158KB, 1024x811px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 1024x811px

>>2240106
Phillipines.
Japan (post-war)
China (right now)
Romania (pre-WW II)
Italy (during the Resorgimento)

A degree of solidarity and espirit de corps is desirable for people living within the same state. However it becomes troublesome when it's used to divide people and create victim narratives about internal enemies. I think healthy patriotism should overlap with concern for the local environment and a mostly nno-interventionist military.

>>2240835
Lol retarded nationalism fucked Japan over in the first place. It didn't increase after the war.

>>2240835
After all of the immigrants are gone who will be the next boogeyman used as a way to strip people of civil liberties because they don't adhere to a rigid standard of a good citizen?

>>2240843
Or you can also blame external enemies for ruining the solidarity you are trying to foster. Nationalism to some degree can lead to always needing a scapegoat for a country's problems. Which is why, as you said, the military should be non interventionist.

Honestly I think it should also be tempered with heavy involvement in international organizations, which itself is limited in how much it can encroach on sovereignty.

This thread is literally "muh Hitler". People forget that Nationalism didn't just cause colonialism but ended it as well.

>>2240868
Only after two World Wars caused by nationalism.

>>2240873
Wouldn't say WW1 was caused by nationalism unless you think every generic territorial grab is nationalism.

>>2240106
It usually fucks you over in the long run.

>>2240835
>Philippines
Thousands of people are getting killed by others for personal vendettas under the guise of a drug war
>China
Offers affirmative action at all their big city universities to every Western Chinese Turkic goatfucker minority, real damn nationalistic
>Japan
There's no nationalism in Japan, there's only a morality of preservation, but no one actively advocating expansion or a promotion of Japanese interests over others. You can drive throughout Tokyo and you won't see much japanese flags, while if you drive through China, South Korea, Vietnam youll see a tonne of flags

It's best as a temporary solution for economic and social troubles within a country. Once stability is reached, it should be done away with.

>>2240868
Nationalism caused colonialism? Nation-states didn't even exist back then.

>>2240106

Nationalism has worked pretty well in stabilizing India.

>>2240106
>Ctrl+F
>No USA
What the fuck

>>2241076
When has the USA been nationalist on it's history?

Did anyone here advance past high school in terms of studying history? that might even be a good thing given the poison most colleges inject as part of their "curriculum" these days. But 80% of answers to what are fairly complex issues seem like the person got their either from the ADL/SPLC site or from an intro level Global Studies topic.

People here like to make fun of /pol/ as if this board somehow by daft contains a more intelligent user base. In practice, yes it contain less complete morons but the trade off is the posers who think they they know a lot more than they actually do.

I'd never checked this ir really any word here to before and I was hoping to find...well, sort people here and on /lit/. Instead, it's just people who look up a topic on "wikipedia," regurgitate it, and then try to sound didactic.

This isn't universal of course, but damn near close. No one keeps current with the actual "good" new books that come out (not the bullshit fluff). You have one element or militant negroes or white guilders with "#get-the honkey-cat." Are there no actual smart people with an interest in this stuff?
and no, refuse to go to leddit or any other BS site where I need to sign in for anything. To hell with it. must be somewhere around to find like0minded and similar-Iq people...

>>2241094
~1740-~1995

>>2241096
My personal specialty is German East Africa but no one ever posts about it and every time I made a relevant post it was either completely ignored or /pol/ and /leftypol/ went into full autistic screech mode.

>>2241072
You mean creating an upper class of "Vedic science" retards who hate anything remotely western, take pride in their pseudomedicine, horrible hygiene and rampant misogyny, and become comically infuriated when anyone mentions they're not first world.

>>2241096
How does this contribute to the thread? If you want to you could recommend some books or post something about the topic. Your rant wont change the state of this board, it is a waste of finger movement.

>>2240814
>inb4 """civic nationalism"""
>Complete oxymoron

Civic nationalism, like the French or American (you could sort of include Prussian as well) precedes the ethnic nationalism. On the other hand you could very well argue that it worked only because it did have a sufficiently strong ethnic component so that assimilating worthy outsiders didn't harm it.
But the point still stands that ethnic affiliation wasn't a part of nationalism since the beginning

>>2240814
It's really not and I don't know where you're going to find political scientists using it that way.

>>2240935
The other way around, a butthurt nationalist shot some dude and all hell broke lose.

WW2 on the other hand can't really be claimed to be about nationalism but German imperialism.

Most people have a tainted vision of nationalism because they associate it to modern extreme parties

Nationalism worked quite well for France during the revolution, as well as Germany throughout the 19th
There are other examples as well I haven't listed but generally it does a very good job at uniting the population

>>2241076
>country founded by immigrants of diverse cultures and backgrounds
>nationalistic
kek

>>2240845
Japan still has the sentiment and thoughts of the past, just look at how they refuse to apologize for any of the harm they caused during the war and how they believe only true japanese are the ones who are born there and are pure (or pure enough) japanese

>>2241361
>Nationalism worked quite well for France during the revolution
And lo and behold, modern nationalists consider the revolution to be the point where France turned to shit

>Germany throughout the 19th
Sure it was wonderful in the 19th century, but look how things turned out in the 20th

>>2241477
>modern nationalists consider the revolution to be the point where France turned to shit
most of those are just reactionary LARPers on /pol/

>look how things turned out in the 20th
the wars were the result of poor german leadership after Bismarck's resignation, not german nationalism

most examples of modern "nationalism" tend to just be tainted racism which is why people are so disdainful of it but there was a time when nationalism was both noble and useful

File: image.jpg (55KB, 385x500px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 385x500px

MUSLIMS STAY OUT

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>2241098
Sure thing. I'm guessing that American also won the Korean and Vietnamese wars?

>France
>Germany (actual nationalism, not the perverted Nazi thing)
>Italy
>Turkey
>Ireland

>>2240106
the point of nationalism is to convince people that in-nation cultural conflicts are secondary, which has at times been a very relevant issue. it works exactly that far.

>>2240835
Japan was far less nationalistic post-war. It literally had the second-largest communist party from 1945 into the 1960's.

File: his_on_boats.png (1MB, 1920x3025px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x3025px

>>2241096
Oh sweet summer child...

>>2243160
>ireland
>still divided
>none of those are recent

heres a real modern list
>Poland
>Czech Republic
>Slovaka
>Hungary
>Estonia

>>2243318
>none of those are recent
Nationalism was a thing when Romanticism was a thing, of course these are going to be old.

>heres a real modern list
>Slovakia grew a lot, question is how much is it due to dissolution of Czechoslovakia
>Czech republic has no relevant nationalistic policy apart from opposition to treaty of Libanon and Euro
>Hungary is correct, but PiS is too shorly in power to judge them
>Estonia improved a lot, arguably due to separation from Russia

In none of these is Nationalism a major thing, more like a flavour to the rhetoric. Nationalism is big thing in Ukraine, Serbia, Kosovo and UK.

Nationalism is great if you're proud of your country for good reasons, but it's obviously shit if you're a jingoistic moron who thinks your country is exceptional no matter what.

Nationalism, like most things, is betrayed by those who practice it. They turn a blind eye to the problems of the country and culture they venerate and often place the blame on a minority they can scapegoat, like the Jews. Even then in an age of globalism, nationalism doesn't make much sense.

Israel seems pretty good at it.

It's also the only form of ethno nationalism considered acceptable. What a coincidence

>>2243423
As evidenced by the latest referendum, where the West unanimously backed their sovereignty on """rightful Palestinian clay""".

bump for glorious Nippon!

>>2240106
Jingoism worked out great for America, so I'm not seeing your point.

>>2241477
>modern nationalists consider the revolution to be the point where France turned to shit
Monarchist reactionaries =/= Nationalists

>>2245008
>>2245018
this.

>>2243423
>israel
>good at it
>starved for oil in a region filled with oil rich nations that want it dead
>can't kill off the palestinians or the 20% arab population because hurr durr muh human rights groups and boycotts
>is struggling to even force its will on the west bank or gaza much less beyond israel itself

lol they conquered rhode island, congrats?

>b-b-but muh religious symbols

>>2241365
They were all western, not diverse it all.

>>2245418

>all western culture is the same

Moron

>>2243117
Not an argument

>>2245418
is this ironic?