1812

>>2215412
America lost more men, but they got what they wanted. Britain got nothing from the negotiations, but burnt the white house down. I'd say america.

>>2215412

The indians lost.

The Indians lost, so everyone wins.

>>2215412
>Who won the war of 1812?

Tchaikovsky

>>2215412
my hometown of Ghent, Belgium got a cool plaque to commemorate the signing of the peace treaty... so my hometown did?

>>2215412
Britain stopped impressing US sailors so you can argue that the US won

Really though it was a draw and an embarrassment for everyone

>>2216234
>embarrassment for everyone
Except Old Hickory

France

>>2215412
Russians, who managed to chase Napoleon away

>>2215412
France?

>>2215593
Wrong. The US plan was to annex canada. They failed.

>>2217548
Revisionist

>>2215412
Usa lost on ground, won at sea, ended British impressing of American sailors; gotta go with America on this one.

>>2217755
The USA made it very clear they intended to annex canada, cletus.

>>2217839
British impressment was more of an excuse than a goal

>>2217548
And stop the British impressment of sailors
And stop raids from British-allied Natives
And iirc force the British to vacate some forts in the West or something?

but sure just focus on Canada

>>2217916

revisionist

>>2217929
>And stop the British impressment of sailors
More of an excuse than wargoal.

>And stop raids from British-allied Natives
Agreed, they won against the natives

>And iirc force the British to vacate some forts in the West or something?
I'd need a source on that.

Also, Britain lost 5000. America lost 15,000.

>>2215593
America got what they wanted before the war even began.

>>2217839
>won at sea
No they didn't haha

It ended in a draw, but Andrew Jackson won the battle of New Orleans after the treaty was signed. Therfore, America is the winner.

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>>2215645
As God intended.

>>2218413
>American Logic

>>2218540

your treacherous Indian raid inciting ways came to an end you sneaky rosbif

deal with it

>>2218569
You still didn't win.

>>2218455
Fuck you, Sharpe Knife.

>>2216199
best post

I like that 18+12=30. Makes me all tingly inside when things go round like that :3.

>>2217962
>Also, Britain lost 5000. America lost 15,000.

>MUH KDR

That's why the Confederacy won the ACW, the Germans won WW2, and the Soviets won in Afghanistan.

>>2217962
>more of an excuse than a wargoal
You fucking dumbass.
The whole reason the war started was over impressment, Canda was after the fact. Impressment was the leading cause for US outrage and the primary reason war were declared.

The forts thing, I remember that from my history class. The British were still occupying old forts from the pre Revolutionary War days on contested land the US claimed that the British just kind of ignored. These were the places the natives were being armed, actually.
Post war the forts were largely still garrisoned but would gradually be given up in the coming years due to cooling of relations, lack of defensibility as the US expanded quite rapidly, and of course the fact that the natives they had been arming and organizing kind of got their shit stomped in and the forts were just a waste of money protecting nothing anymore.

>>2217962
Britain lost a lot more than that, the Canadian militia had I think around 8,000 casualties total and were British subjects at the time.
What you meant to say is that 5,000 Crown soldiers died.

Most of the casualties on both sides were from the militia. Well, most of the casualties were from disease.

>>2215412
>Battle of Borodino (7th of September 1812)
>40,000 killed in action (both sides combined)

>"War" of 1812 (June 1812 to February 1815)
>3,360 killed in action (both sides combined)

Really makes you sink

>>2217962
>Also, Britain lost 5000. America lost 15,000.
This is a blatant lie

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>>2219020
ur mum already did m8

>>2220514
ivan pls go and stay go, we're talking about globally significant countries here

>>2215412
Britain.

britains only wargoal was to get the americans to stop fighting so that they cold concentrate on more imortant matters, that they achieved

the Americans used impressment -actually the recovery of british deserters from american merchantmen and a perfectly reasonable and legitimate action- as a casus belli for their camaign to annex canada, the order to cease the stoing and searching of american merchantmen had already been given before war was declared so in that the war accomplished nothing and the american seaborne trade was decimated by the RN while the american actions against british commerce represented a far smaller proportion of british merchant shipping in the area.

It was a war that the americans were foolish to declare and cost them much in blood and coin for little gain

>>2222222
Nice digits

>>2222222
Checked.

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>>2222222

>>2222222
sheeeeeeeeeit

>>2222222
Dubs speak true, America BTFO forever.

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>>2222222
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

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>>2222222
RULE BRITANNIA

>>2222222
god damn it's hard to argue with a get like that

>>2222222
RULE BRITANNIA

>>2222222
BTFO YANK CUNTS

>>2222222
Yanks absolutely btfo

>>2222222
Britain claims this get, too bad.
At least it's not shitting on France

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>>2216199

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>>2222222
HOW WILL AMERICA EVER RECOVER

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>>2217839
>won at sea
>Brits sail right up the Potomac and burn down the fucking white house

>>2222222
BRITANNIA RULE THE WEBS

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>>2222222

The unlucky two.

>>22222221
>>22222223

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>>2222222
Rule Britannia, fuckers

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>>2222222
Beautiful. Just beautiful.

>>2222222
Nothing makes my day like an on-topic get.

>>2222222
Digits confirm.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

>>2222222

Checked. Britain confirmed winner.

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>>2222222
;^)

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>>2222222
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS

>>2215412
Canada

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>>2222222
ETERNAL

>>2222222
Perfide Albion strikes again!

>>2222222
Britain deserves to own America again just for this post.

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>>2222222

fukken nice

>>2222222
>actually the recovery of british deserters from american merchantmen
This was done, but it wasn't what the US government was pissed off about. British warships were impressing US citizens who were born before 1776 saying that you cannot renounce being a subject of the british crown and therefore they are still british despite being US citizens. I read an account of the battle of Trafalgar once from an American citizen who had been impressed and put on a gun crew and subjected to the dangers of a war that was not his own.

>>2222222
BURGERLAND BTFO

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>>2222222
>>2222222
>>2222222
>>2222222
>>2222222
>>2222222
>>2222222

>>2222222
Wtf I love Britain now?

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>>2222222

>>2216234

>ignoring that by the end impressment was no longer needed as we beat napoleon

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>>2222222
Glorious.

>>2224010
>we
what unit were you in?

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>>2222222
we need good art for the screencap

>>2224024

I'm 500 years old and was part of the Irish fusiliers who sent american militia running near washington

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>>2222222
Checked

>>2222222
>>2222222
>>2222222
in order to celebrate this glorious get, if dubs the United states have to surrender their freedom by to the crown and exist as a british colony once more

>>2215412
Andrew Jackson won

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>>2222222
last septs was the right answer too
http://desuarchive.org/his/thread/1104317/#1111111
kek has spoken

>>2222222
czeched

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>>2222222
God save King George!

>>2215412
Britain, they burnt down the fucking white house, if the US Navy sailed down the river Thames and burnt down the houses of Parliament I'd say they had won.

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>>2222222
The albion did it again.

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>>2215412

America invaded Canada and was pushed out

Britain invaded America and was pushed out

America got literally everything it wanted at the Treaty of Ghent while the British got nothing. Not only did they make the British stop their stealing of US sailors and funding of Indian Raids, they also got some disputed territory along the US Canadian border as well as Lake Eerie and some other fishing waters. Britain wanted the US to remove their Navy from Lake Eerie which was denied, and they wanted access to American fishing waters which was also denied

While it was a military draw, America won the war in the sense that they got everything they wanted while the British gained literally nothing.

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>>2222222
God I love being British

>>2222222
SSSSHHHHHIIIIIIEEEEEETTT

>>2224634
>America won the war in the sense that they got everything they wanted
except for a non-burned down white house that is

>>2222222
How will Hamburgerstan ever recover.

>>2224682

difference is we just rebuilt the white house while those disputed territories will ALWAYS be ours

>>2224634
>>2224634
>America got literally everything it wanted at the Treaty of Ghent
except Canada
while the British got nothing.
except the americans stopped fighting.

when you dont want a war, dont understand what the other guy is bitching about, and have other major shit to deal with, getting the idiot starting a war on you thousands of miles from home to stop is all you really want, the british objectives boiled down to , retain canada, and dont have too many resources diverted from more important wars.

>>2224767

Britain made demands during the signing of the treaty, so your implication that all they wanted was for the fighting to stop is objectively wrong. America was willing to continue fighting while signing the treaty while Britain wasnt because everyone agreed it was a retarded waste of time on their part.

Britain undoubtedly came out the loser in that conflict.

>>2224779
britain was willing to mae demands because they had beaten the americans on land and new that the americans commerce was really suffering, they thought that they could get concessions out of the americans.

as it was the americans proved too proud to accept that the consequences for continuing while bad for britain would be worse for them and the british concluded that the concessions needed to get the colonials to stop fighting were cheaper than the cost of continuing the war

>>2224813
>britain was willing to mae demands because they had beaten the americans on land

no they didnt. The British lost the battle of baltimore. It was because of this that the british demands to land and other disputed territory along the canadian boarder were shot down very quickly.

also, while this was going on, the british were crushed at New Orleans as well.

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>>2215412
well, Canada still exists, so I guess UK won

>>2224839
and the US maritime commerce was still being devastated, and britain had both control of the seas and veteran troops freed from european service, the consequences for continuation of the war for the US would have been defeat, but allowing them a few concessions was cheaper

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>>2224870
>would have

nice alternative history concepts, but in actual history, the british land war was a failure, just as their sea war had been (see the battle of lake erie) and they couldnt realistically make any demands of the US, which is why the US was able to hold them over the fire and not only deny their demands, but take disputed territories and lakes.

anyway you try to look at this, America wins this war in the sense that they actually gain a lot while Britain not only gains nothing, but actually loses stuff.

>>2224870

"Veteran troops had been freed from European service" since April of 2014. Surprisingly, it didn't shift the momentum of the war. And while the loss of overseas commerce might be irritating and economically painful, you didn't see any real ability of America slackening her war effort.

>>2222222
Always wondered who won that one

>>2215412
Both sides lost.

>>2222222
Damn

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>>2222222
Based
>Ignore bottom one temporarily

>>2222222
BRITANNIA FOREVER

>>2222222
Long Live King James and may the Queen become a Catholic yesterday

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>>2222222
COMMONWEALTH

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>>2222222
checked and kekked

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>>2222222
BAN THIS FUCKING COUNTRY FROM THIS BOARD IMMEDIATELY

>>2222222
GLORIOUS BRITANNIA AMERIFATS BTFO

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>>2222222

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>>2222222

>>2216199
Wrong theatre, m8.

>>2217755
>>2217929
Impressment was an issue, but more an annoyance than anything. It's what we call a "pretext". The Brits had already agreed to like maybe kinda cut it out already when war was declared.

Important to note that the declaration was not that popular among actual upper crusts of government. The US was broke as fuck at the time, and the army very small and spread thin. Madison was against it, but congress narrowly declared war anyway.

As for the British-allied natives, they were raiding now and then because they were completely left out of negotiations post-independence (ironic or what?), and felt betrayed by the Brits. True, the Brits and French had played off various native groups against each other, but the natives had also played the French and British off each other ("Oh you don't want to pay a box of rum for these beaver furs? Well Pierre over there is offering a keg of gunpowder and a musket... I'll see what he thinks"). The elimination of British influence created a new paradigm (the French crown was gone, but French creole descendants were still around, if few and far between in this part of North America).

When the British vacated territory west of the Appalachians, they ceded it by treaty to the US, but the US had no treaties with the local natives. Naturally natives were pissed at their treatment, and thought it was time to assert their autonomy before any more whites got funny ideas. The British weren't controlling them, but they had fostered notions about who their bosses should be, and it wasn't Yankees. It also created a power vacuum, as the US could not actually project much force in "their" new territory. Yanks were, by treaty, supposed to prevent white settlers moving in, but did the exact opposite.

>>2216894
>>2218413
>>2218455
>>2224387

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE4yTfawEH8

>>2222953
>to the dangers of a war that was not his own.
Sounds familiar...

The real winner was Canada, because it really was the war of 1812 that forged a new unique identity. Not British, not USAmerican, but here... something else. In time, that would be 'Canadian'. To an extent this is blatant modern and retroactive nation-building, but there you go.

Before the war, people on the 'other side' of the border did not view themselves so differently from Americans/British colonists in the US. Especially those literally right across the border, with whom they visited, traded, married, and drank with.

After the war, after being forced to defend themselves (with British help, natch) they were forced to view themselves as now different from the people who had just tried to hit them for no fault of their own.

Here's a good article on a Canadian perspective: https://thewalrus.ca/that-time-we-beat-the-americans/

>>2224634
Britain didn't want the war, they had no aims for any gains.

>>2224839
New Orleans was certainly embarrassing. I don't recall all details now, but I recall reading that the Brits basically didn't realize how close they came to winning. If they had been a little more unified (British officers being a pretty arrogant bunch is not an entirely untrue stereotype) and a little more aggressive in their attacks, they would have easily crushed Ol' Hick. I guess they got spooked by initial skirmishes and being too 'patient' to have their full force before attacking. This gave Americans a time advantage, where defences built up and reserves brought in.

>>2217962
>More of an excuse than wargoal
It was literally the casus belli, you fucking retard. Canada didn't become a wargoal until a few months into the war and even then it was more of an afterthought.

>>2229268
>after being forced to defend themselves (with British help, natch)
You mean the British were forced to defend them. The Canadian militia was extremely small for most of the war. That link is blatant nationalist historiography.

>>2229305
Nah, the British attack on New Orleans was a fuck up from the get go. The naval landing completely missed their landing zone because they misjudged the current, the land-based attack staggered in purposely so their troops weren't fatigued and sharpshooters were specifically hitting British officers during the Battle to create chaos in the British line. Even if the landing group actually made their landing zone, I don't think they would have pulled it out. The whole thing was basically a turkey shoot due to how fortified New Orleans had become literally overnight.

>>2229456
Canada was always considered potential republican American clay. American warmongers literally said and thought that capturing it would be as easy as marching, and that Canadians would welcome American liberators. It wasn't the main cause of the war, but considered an obvious bonus. None of it came to fruition, of course...

The Canadian colonies were also invited to the continental congresses a couple decades earlier, but declined. Canada (though it wasn't called that yet) was also attacked in the revolutionary war. Atlantic towns were raided, blockaded and occasionally burnt (a pretty rude way to convince the locals to join your cause), and Quebec towns were attacked, being the population centre of Canada at the time.

>>2229490
If you're an imperial soldier manning a border fort, you're not being 'forced', it's literally your job. Serving in Canada was not considered as exotic or noble as fighting in, for example, India, but it was a living. Canada's population was extremely small (don't have the numbers right now, but I recall it being like 1/16th of the US), and mostly farmers, fishers, lumberjacks, fur traders... only a tiny professional soldier class, who had to go to England to complete training anyhow.There was not too much of an urban elite yet, and those who were were mostly staunch imperialists. Canada was EMPIRE, it really doesn't matter where the troops came from to be honest.

All anyone will ever remember it for in the future is Andrew Jackson defeating the Brits (after the war had been over for almost a 2 month) and the fact that it launched his career.

Sure in the next few days, Obama will try to put a rush on it to bet Tubman on the $20 (Jackson would not want to be on there anyway, as he said he wanted to be remembered by the simple words "I killed the bank."

I think the war of 1812 (in the US, not counting the Brits chasing Napoleon at the time) will forever be tied with Jackson. I think his total was 3 people killed in duels and one or 2 musket balls lodged in him?

Favorite story is how he was accused of selling shitty horses to the man known to be best pistol shot in Tennessee. So, jackson let him shoot first, the bullet enters right under his heart. Jackson doesn't go down. He's very calm, takes his time, and then shoots the other guy right between his eyes, kills him.

Once he's dead, Jackson's second notices he's bleeding. the bullet is lodged in his ribs right under his heart , blood spurting out into his shirt. Jackson's quote at the time? "Ah, he just pinked me a little bit..."

Lived with hat bullet rest of his life. He has a bunch of other great stories. On his deathbed in the Hermitage, his last revert was not killing some guy who had insulted his wife while in Washington.

>>2231131
In the US, for Americans, perhaps. In Canada it's a different story.

The War of 1812 in North America had very little do with Napoleon. I'm not sure if people are trolling or just dumb when they mention Napoleon here. If anything, Napoleon's adventures in Europe at the time only diverted troops away from North America. Young America might have been curb stomped otherwise.

In the UK, I doubt there is any general public knowledge of the war or its causes and consequences outside specialist history students...

>>2222222
Americans on suicide watch

>>2222222
I live and breath Merica but god fuckin damn god save the Queen

>>2222222
Mexico BTFO