What do you think about Huntington theory ? In my country, it

>>2214071

Literal truth, maybe simplified to the bone, but quite evident today

>Vietnam
>Sinic

I wouldn't say a thing like that in Saigon.

Also, did they claim that Mongolia is buddhist?

>>2214071
It seems he was on to something. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for posting.

>>2214071
>the iberic peninsula is closer to 'muricans than latin america
>"Buddhist civilization"

it's fiction pretty much

seems kind of dumb and arbitrary desu

It's a pretty good book, I don't see how he's wrong other than the fact that he simplifies a lot. A lot of people point to sectarian infighting amongst Muslims nowadays as a refutation but I don't think it disproves his overarching theory.

>>2214071
It's fucking bullshit.

Why is Latin America it's own civilization? It's western.

Japan heavily derives a fuckton of it's stuff from China

If Papua New guinea is Western then why is SSA not Western then?

Why is Africa one monolithic whole despite the mass differences between groups on the genetic, political and cultural level? Also why is it implying that being Islamic doesn't make you African?

Why is India the only place with a mixed status and no where else?

There's many nations that are Islamic but not Arab with little ties to the rest of the Islamic world barring religion.

>>2214071
>Grey Tibet
what did he mean by this.....

>>2214071
>not a cultural marxist interpretation of history
Into the trash it goes. It's 2017, ffs.

>>2214071
Desipite term of "civilization" is bad by itself, this division is also bad.
There no "islamic", "buddhist" and "african" civilizations, just primeval and slightely developed tribes.
"Japanese" civilization is Sinic actually.
"Orthodox" term is inaccurrate, because Orthodoxy wasnt important in both inner and external politics of Russian empire.

>>2214107
>Japan heavily derives a fuckton of it's stuff from China
Japan may have borrowed from China, but it was never in the chinese sphere of influence. Not even in the tributary system safe for a few years.

>>2214071
>Spain and Portugal being closer to USA than Mexico and Brazil
>Ethiopia and South Africa being a part of the same civilization despite not knowing the other existed until the 15th century at the earliest
>Kazakhstan being orthodox
>Japanese being its own independent civilization being on part with Western and Islamic
>Mongolia, Tibet, and Thailand all being a part of the same civilization let alone a """buddhist civilization"""
>Greek and Italian culture being as separate from one another as Islamic and Chinese culture
It's bullshit of the highest order OP

>>2214107
this is it, the most uninformed post

>>2214146

Spain and Portugal are both EU and NATO members. Is this some moor or sudaca meme I'm not aware of?

>>2214163
We're talking about "civilization," not modern political leanings dumbass. If you honestly think that a Spaniard and a Canadian have more in common with one another culturally, than a Spaniard and a Cuban, you need to take a step outside and face reality. You are being delusional beyond belief.

>>2214146
>>2214138
>>2214134
>>2214123
You realize this isn't a historical conception of world civilizations, correct? It's a model of PRESENT DAY politics, based on political affiliations and not culture.. This isn't to say that it's totally accurate, but you're all judging it as though it were meant to be a linguistic map or something.

>>2214172

Have you even read the small snipet of text in the image or even a wikipedia page about the subject? Stop being a globe painting autist and read.

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>>2214071
A couple of changes and it is correct.

>>2214175
Then it's a gross misuse of the term "civilization." Civilization implies culture well before politics. Even if it is purely political, it's still horribly inaccurate.

>>2214194
simply epic

Makes sense to me

Also corresponds with Spengler's thesis quite nicely as well, interestingly

>>2214175
What the affilations? This is certanly not the map of alliances or types of regimes. Many (or even most of) conflicts are inside whole sectors.

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>>2214071
I feel the clash is more racial and ethno/linguistic than civilizational.

Replace "Eurasian" with European and this map does the best job categorizing human groups IMO

>>2214071

>Latin American civilization

It's literally Western civilization.

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>>2214194
FTFY

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>>2214226
>It's literally Western civilization.
This isn't fucking western civilization.

>>2214175
That's not what he implies with his theory.

He's saying conflict in the post cold war world will be shaped by civilization blocs.

The fact that the map corresponds more to alliances and affiliations than actual civilizations is just him trying to adapt reality to conform to his theory.

>>2214134
>Orthodoxy wasnt important in both inner and external politics of Russian empire.
t.retard

>>2214175
you're forgetting that this board contains high levels of autism

>>2214175
Even through the lens of purely present day politics it makes fuck all sense. Why is Greece, a member of NATO, being lumped together with Russia under the "Orthodox" category. Why the hell is there even an "Orthodox" category if this is a political map. The Orthodox church is not the binding political force of Eastern Europe that it was 500 years ago.

Why the fuck is South Korea being lumped in together with China?

This map makes fuck all sense culturally and politically.

there's literally not a single good argument for including korea and vietnam under 'sinic' but not japan

>>2214232
>Latin American culture is Mesoamerican culture
wew fucking lad

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generalized in a lot of ways but not entirely wrong at all. where's sri lanka? also, >png >western, etc.

one thing I do think though is that japan, south america, and russia are all well on the road towards merging with western society, and by the time they have I would guess that the chinese would be following. I expect the world conflicts are largely going to arise where islamic borders are, particularly in india, africa, and southeast asia.

>>2214232
So that's how an average mexican lives.

>>2214221

Russian and Stans block should be separate from Europe

>>2214239
The orthodox nations of Europe have been separate from the Western half since the great schism. They spent centuries under Ottoman yoke while the west was busy conquering the world by using sea lanes.

>>2214255
The stans are. Look closer.

>>2214246
>Latin-Caribbean culture isn't heavily influenced by Amerindians
wew lad. Wannabe Westerners.

>>2214344

I meant as a single group, Russians may be a regional power, but it is their region.

>>2214342
Then this isn't a modern political map, because all that shit is long over with. The modern day greek state has more ties with western Europe than it does Turkey or Russia.

So I'm going to ask you again, what is this map representing? Is it culture, historical impact on areas, or modern politics? Which is it?

>>2214221
>australia and new zealand lumped in with tribal ooga booga islanders
>Literal Turks in Anatolia lumpia in with vaguely related "turkic" groups in central asia and fucking siberia
>Madagascar lumped in with indonesia and the philipines
huh really made me think

>>2214239
Well for one, "Western" should just be called Christian.
And latin america is part of it, being poor isn't a very good separation criteria.

>>2214357
It was made in the 90s when the Yugoslav wars proved the Orthodox/Latin divide was still strong. Greece may have political ties to the West but the fact that Greeks volunteered to fight for the Serbian side shows civilsational ties is still a thing. Which is what this is. Its a map representing civilizations.

>>2214351
Most of those Amerindians died to small pox 500 years ago. The effect of Amerindian culture on modern day Hispanic culture is absolutely dwarfed by the effect that Spanish and Catholic culture has had on the area and its people. It's time to face reality anon.

>>2214361
Then why isn't Eastern Europe and multiple African nations a part of it? They're just as Christian.

>>2214357

If Grease should reject EU, muh orthodox brotherhood is their only option. Would agree that Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine(???) has no business there.

>>2214361
The West hasn't been defined by Christianity since the 1700s.

>>2214366
Then we're back to the central problem of this map in that it DOESN'T properly represent civilizations, because it's culturally nonsensical.

>>2214374
If the basis for their being a part of a distinct civilization from other European countires is their second best political alignment choice, I'd say this is a pretty hamfisted map.

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>>2214367
>Most of those Amerindians died to small pox 500 years ago.
Your delusion.

seems to ignore that the vast majority of conflicts today are within those 'civilizations'

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Here's an ACCURATE depiction of cultural groups...

>>2214384

Just don't trust the Greeks, nobody can tell with those slippery ducks.

>>2214388
Iberia isn't white so I don't see what point your trying to get across.

>>2214388
>Racial categories are cultural categories
[wewing intensifies]

>>2214390
The point isn't that brothers fight brothers. The point is showing people live in distinct realities which aren't compatible with each other.

>>2214397
>Most Amerindians died 500 years ago
Where reaching wewing levels that shouldn't even be possible.

>>2214403
*were

>Egypt
>Islamic
Discredited along with the other glaring issues.

>>2214404
we're

>>2214371
Eastern christianity had a different trajectory.

And Africans joined relatively recently, most of them still have their own culture, language, and tribal identity, not like the americas where this was first transplanted from europe before differentiating itself.

>>2214403
>Implying most Amerindians didn't die out 500 years ago
You're just denying basic historical knowledge now anon. I know you probably don't believe this, but you've backed yourself so far into a corner that you've got no other choice. It's alright to admit that you fucked up.

>>2214398
>The point is showing people live in distinct realities which aren't compatible with each other
well i don't really think it does that

>>2214405
>egypt arent islamic fhellachs since thousand years now
wew

>>2214411
So did protestant Christianity, yet I see that the USA, Britain, and Germany are still handily included.
>And Africans joined relatively recently, most of them still have their own culture, language, and tribal identity
So do most European nations. My point is that Christianity is a stupid commonality to lump these groups together as, because Christianity is not synonymous with Western Culture. I wouldn't even say its the most definitive contributor considering that Western Culture had its beginnings before Christianity even existed.

>>2214412
I guess I consider 95% Amerindian mongrels "Amerindian" and you think your average Mexican or Guatemalan is White as a man from Bern, Switzerland.

>>2214423
>So did protestant Christianity
Not really. Protestantism uses a lot of the same general logic found in Western Christian theology.

>>2214423

>Christianity is not synonymous with Western Culture

Get behind me Santan

>>2214425
>Bringing up race in a cultural discussion a second time
Do you consider Black Americans to not be westerners as well anon? Are they africans even though hardly any of them speak an african language, follow african religions and morality, live in african nations, and can barely name any historical african figures?

>>2214429
As does Orthodox Christianity and vice versa. In the end they're not all as different as everyone here seems to believe they are. Certainly not as different so as to warrant their own classification of civilization in the manner that Chinese and Islamic culture do.

>>2214071
spookiest thing ive ever seen

>>2214433
Western culture has its roots in Ancient Greek and Roman culture, both of which existed at times before Christianity did. Am I saying that Christianity did not contribute to western culture? No. What I'm saying is that Christianity is not the single defining part of western culture, and that it is ridiculous to think of it as anything other than a piece of a larger puzzle. Especially in a time when a good number of Europeans are non-religious.

>>2214436
Don't deflect from the fact that the Amerindian hasn't died from smallpox. Go to Guatemala and you'll see plenty, even if they have 3% European genes on a genetic test.

>>2214423
Protestants split off of Catholicism, they didn't spawn from nowhere.

Both of them experienced most of the same wars, political advances and revolutions. Hell one example was used as a counter argument against me >>2214375

But bottom line is, western civilization doesn't necessarily need to be called christian like i said, it just seems arbitrary to define other nations by their religion and not westerners because our values are just as shaped by our religion.

>>2214454
I'm not deflecting shit. Most Amerindians died of smallpox centuries ago. This is a fact. Just because there's a handful of them scattered around 2 continents doesn't mean that they have the cultural relevance that you believe they do.

Also, stop bringing up genetics like it means anything. This is a discussion about culture, is it not? The culture of a person is entirely "nurture."

>>2214071
>Croatia and Serbia belong to different civilizations, despite being neighbors, having the same language and people, the only difference being that they worship a sky wizard on a slightly different way
>Morocco and Indonesia belong to the same civilization, despite having zero in common besides religion and being on opposite sides of the world. There's no relation at all between them.
>PNG is somehow "Western"
>Japanese is a special snowflake that has to have it's own category

>>2214466
>Most Amerindians died of smallpox centuries ago.
https://www.google.com/search?q=guatemalans&biw=1366&bih=651&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifz6mq073RAhUE8IMKHR9QAFcQ_AUIBigB

Who are these people then?

>>2214456
Orthodox Christianity didn't spawn from nowhere either. Both Catholics and Orthodox Christians spawn from the same ilk. If we're going to define Eastern Europe as some civilization separate from Western Europe, then we ought to define SSA Muslims as separate from Iranian Muslims, because lord knows they did not experience the same wars, political advances and revolutions.

>>2214468
>>Croatia and Serbia belong to different civilizations, despite being neighbors, having the same language and people, the only difference being that they worship a sky wizard on a slightly different way
Same civilizations that fought 3 wars in the 80 years before the paper was published, one was a part of Austria Hungary for all it's existence and other Ottomans and later independent for theirs?

really gets my hmmm going

>>2214482
I don't know what an SSA muslim is.

Though I've never read the book a lot of people here seem to be judging the map instead of the contents of the book. how about read it instead of autisticly attacking what may very well be a rough draft using artistic license.

>>2214498
Super Sunni Assholes

>>2214498
Sub-saharan Africa.
Yeah it's a pretty meme term since Black African would be much more straight forward and accurate term alongside the whole "Sahara was like a mountain" meme.

>>2214471
They're not culturally Amerindians that's for sure. When I said Amerindians died out, I didn't just mean the people. That would be stupid considering I've been ragging on your insistence of going back to genetics all this time. The culture dying out is the important thing. It doesn't matter if they're 3% European. The vast majority don't follow Amerindian religion, they don't have an Amerindian style of government, and they don't speak an Amerindian language.

As well Guatemala is a poor example of the average Latin American country to begin with considering how many of the still surviving Maya people live there.

>>2214498
Like >>2214502 said, it means Sub-saharan African. Use Black African if you want, I don't care, the point is is that they're most certainly not the cultural kin of Iranians.

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>>2214506
>They're not culturally Amerindians that's for sure.
Go back to what I originally said. Latin-Caribbean culture is a mix of Western and Amerindian. A lot of Amerindian attitudes survived. I wouldn't call the Philippines Western either.

Look at this map. In the nations under 51-60% European, the people BY AND LARGE live and think differently than westerners do.

Your average rural White American has more in common with a rural Pole or Russian than he has with rural Mexican or Paraguayan and vice versa.

>>2214538
I mean the original map I posted.

>>2214538
The average rural White American may have more in common with a rural Pole or Russian, but the average White American does not have more in common, culturally speaking, with a rural Spaniard than a Mexican or Cuban does. And both the average rural White American, and the average rural Mexican have much more in common with one another than the average rural Persian and the average rural Malian.

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>>2214557
>but the average White American does not have more in common, culturally speaking, with a rural Spaniard than a Mexican or Cuban does.
I have family in rural South Italy, which is very close, culturally speaking, to Iberia. To say they have more in common with Mexicans or Cubans than other rural Whites is incorrect. Pic related.

The Persian and Malian I'd agree.

>>2214557

Sudacas wet dream

>>2214573
Fine then. I'll concede that Latin American ought to be its own distinct category. The map in the OP is still by and large bs though.

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>>2214071
Argentina and Uruguay are more culturally Western than the United States.

>European-style architecture
>Population descended from Europeans, mestizos are a minority
>No natives left (totally wiped out in Uruguay, 2% of the population in Argentina)
>Main national dishes are BBQ, pasta, pizza, ice cream, etc.
>Strong rock tradition dating back from the 1960s, strong classical music tradition, many famous classical directors and musicians
>Welsh in Patagonia, Italians across the country, French, German, British, Polish cultural influences
>Major Non-NATO Ally of the United States, high-income economy, "very high" Human Development Index according to the UN

This is a meme map.

And let's not even discuss Greece (the birthplace of Western civilization is not Western, top kek)

>>2214605

Orale Pablito

>>2214592
No, Latin American countries should be treated as individual countries and not as a single entity to try to shoehorn some half-assed theory.

>>2214617
We don't say orale, Pedro

>>2214071
>Bosnia and Albania
>Orthodox
I'm dismissing the theory on that alone

>>2214605
>Argentina and Uruguay are more culturally Western than the United States.
More Western than the Far West? Kek. Either way, those and Chile are the only Latin American nations which are Western.

>And let's not even discuss Greece (the birthplace of Western civilization is not Western, top kek)
A lot of people divide Greco-Roman civilization from Western civilization. In this case, Greco-Roman civilization would have given birth to both Western and Orthodox civilization. This would have occurred after the great schism.

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>>2214396
Wew fucking lad.

>>2214618
You have the more European Chile, Uruguay and Argentina. The rest are heavily mixed or Amerindian.

>>2214447
I disagree that Greece and Rome are Western. I think it's more accurate to say they are their own civilizations separate from the West, the West simply used it as a foundation for their mathematics, law, literature, etc.. But a northern European from 1100 and a greek from 500bc would not identify with each other culturally in any way

>>2214618
Let me make it clear, this whole map is pure nonsense, no doubt. Still I don't see the harm in acknowledging both. We can think of countries as distinct entities while not ignoring the fact that they have closer cultural and historical ties with some countries more than others.

>>2214388
The magic word here is *identify*, /pol/

>>2214247
I think he classified it as hindu which was another bizarre statement along with png

You can tell it's a bunch of generalised bullshit when he groups Vietnam and China together, two countries with such huge animosity and rising tension.

>>2214643
I didn't say ancient greece and rome were western. I said that their culture is one of the factors that make up modern day western culture just like Christianity. The point here is that Christianity is a poor substitute for the term Western. Related though they may be, that does not make them the same thing and we ought to use each term accurately.

>>2214221
Wt f madagascar is malay?

>>2214228
Don't worry my black brother, we from the southern cone will accept you even if they don't

>>2214663
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_race
Yes

>>2214675
To be exact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples

>>2214663
Yes. They're not black at all, even if they look it.

>>2214692
Malagasy aren't uniform retard.

>>2214557
Spain is not like Latin America at all bro. Have you ever fucking been?

>>2214660
>You can tell it's a bunch of generalised bullshit when he groups Vietnam and China together, two countries with such huge animosity and rising tension.

France and Germany used to hate the shit out of each other. Doesn't negate the fact that they share lots of the same culture. Peoples' feefees don't determine culture.

Furthermore, Chinese people don't hate Vietnamese even though the reverse is true. Chinese just see Vietnamese as another SEA ethnic group.

>>2214660
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_cultural_sphere
WHOA I WOULD HAVE NEVER GUESSED

>>2214714
It's more like latin america than the united states.

>>2214727
>Chinese just see Vietnamese as another SEA ethnic group.

So another group to talk down to?

>>2214740
>North East Asian = Beautiful people, incredible culture, successful.
>South East Asia = Savage, primitive, poor.
I'd say so.

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>>2214758
>primitive

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Rate similar, but more concrete map: stages of poltical-economical development.

>>2214787

>Russia is more developed than Hungary
>Belarus is on the same level as the rest of EE
>Africa, Pakistan, India, Iran, Arab countries, Turkey, etc

bruh...

>>2214071
>Japanese
This is how we know it's a meme

>>2214787
>Latin-American development being on par with Far East development when Japan and South Korea are a part of the Far East category.
>Greece being more politically and economically developed than Japan
>UAE being less developed than Myanmar

>>2214084
>my ignorance and viet nationalism outweighs facts

Interesting post anon

>>2214138
>Japan may have borrowed from China, but it was never in the chinese sphere of influence. Not even in the tributary system safe for a few years.

Why do people like you post factually inaccurate statements?

>>2214773
Thanks to culturally approaching Indian and Chinese skills.

>>2214071
It explains cultural sphere of influence
But mongolia should be in the orthodox
Buddist should be eaten by sinic and sea should be hindu/sinic/japense
Persia should be orthodox/islamic/hindu

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>>2214787
Who the fuck makes these shit maps?
How is Brazil more developed than Japan?

>>2214499
>how about read it instead of autisticly attacking what may very well be a rough draft using artistic license.

How about you read Mein Kampf before you dismiss it as inaccurate ravings of an enraged manlet?

>>2214866
When the Romans do it, it's fine, but anyone else does it and it suddenly becomes appropriation? Sure thing.

>>2214882
>How about you read Mein Kampf before you dismiss it as inaccurate ravings of an enraged manlet?
you should

>>2214660
You are dumb as fuck

Germans fought each other and hated each other for millenia into the late 1800's. Doesn't make them any less Germanic.

>>2214071
How western are countries like Poland or Hungary?
>>2214107
How is Latin America western?

>>2214773
>one temple is proof of extensive developed civilization

>>2214899
How is it not?
It's catholic, speaks spanish, Natives are nothing over there and only contributed DNA, their political structure is western, they write with Latin script, they contribute to western art and cultre with a Spanish spin.

>>2214388

>identify as

you are fucking retarded

>>2214633
>de Bourbon
>Iberian

>>2214811
>>2214826
>>2214872
Factor of size. Hungary has cute economics, but what about full European trade blockade? It would dissapear during months. Russian - d not.
Or South America. Argentina is whiter than Brazil, but smaller. So its economics regulary collapse by Western bankers.
Common sense of blue - large amount of attributes of Western society, but high dependence on West super-powers.
Ofc, Far East type is much better than Latin American, but it brings cultural separation with West.

>>2214893
>>>/pol/

The obvious point is that one doesn't need to read an entire author's mea culpa to determine they are retarded.

>>2214909
All false and retarded. Amerindian influence is very strong in most of nations of Latin America.

>>2214909

chop of heads as a hello, cartels run countries, hop over fences to get into France, basic european stuff

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>>2214906
>Complex architecture is not proof of developed civilization
Whatever you say anon.

>>2214921
I guess your too young to remember godwins law.

>>2214924
This.

>>2214920
If the colors and categories denote dependence of Western powers, then what about that map is describing political and economic development?

>>2214921
A bunch of autist complaining about a guess thesis for the post-cold war era because of a map doesn't compare to Hitler. The analogy is awful.

>>2214941
>If the colors and categories denote dependence of Western powers
They don't, he is just making shit up.

If there is any case to be made of a civilizational war it should basically just be wahabi Islam vs the world desu

>>2214923
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte

>Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte (Spanish for Our Lady of the Holy Death) or, colloquially, Santa Muerte (Holy Death), is a female deity of Mexican folk religion, venerated primarily in Mexico and the Southwestern United States.
>The number of believers in Santa Muerte has grown over the past ten to twenty years, to an estimated 10-20 million followers in Mexico, the United States, and parts of Central America.
>Mexico, the United States, and parts of Central America.
>United States

America is not Western

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>>2214909
>Natives are nothing over there and only contributed DNA
Wrong. Just look at Peru or Bolivia, most of their population is just natives, other countries still have strong ties with amerindians, not all of them though.
And crime and the way people act is different from the real west.

>>2214927
Not an argument.

>>2214943
I wasn't making an analogy. I used an example.

Huntington and his "civilization clash" theory has been massively discredited over the last two decades. His retarded map is simply more evidence of that.

>>2214960
>America is not Western
A bunch of Mexicans practicing a non-western thing in America? only furthers the obvious fact they aren't Western. Who are you trying to fool, jose?

>>2214985
Comparing someone to Hitler isn't an argument.

>>2214367
Worst post ITT
>>2214388
>identify as
kek, you don't know shit either. People here think they are white just because most are darker.

>>2214941
This is surely not GDP per capita, but stability against other non-violent actions. OAE is rich and happy now. But keys of oil price arent in their hands.

>>2214925
Not an argument. An anecdote isn't proof of complex developed civilization.

Nowhere in Southeast Asia that's not Chinese is developed. There's a reason why.

>>2214994
Point put when I compared Huntington to Hitler you stupid fucker.

>>2215006
>Should I read mein kampf because I judge everything based on irrational emotions?
DUHHHH

>>2214995
>kek, you don't know shit either. People here think they are white just because most are darker.
So whats your point?

>>2214992
Mexicans are not Western.
But Uruguayans are more Western than you.
Since they don't have "Santa Muerte" native influences.

>>2215027
People here self-segregate based on identity. I've never heard or seen that crap in my life.

>>2215020
My point is that the pic you posted means nothing because it's all self reported.

>>2214997
The map literally says GDP per capita >>2214872

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>>2215000
Keep talking anon, I'm sure the Khmer Empire will just vanish from all historical existence if you do.

>>2215018
That's literally not me comparing Huntington to Hitler. You are fucking illiterate.

It's clearly an example of>>2214921
The "you have to read everything the author says to disagree with him" argument is bullshit.

>>2215033
Well you still eat Mexican food, all derived from native dishes. Still makes you less Western than Uruguay

>>2215034
Even if it is, it gives a pretty good idea of who considers themselves what. Even if they aren't "White" the fact the only countries who believe themselves to over 51% European in Latin America are Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Cuba is significant. Even if the Cuban stats are ridiculous.

>>2215039
The Khmer Empire never even touched the lowest of the low in post-Renaissance Europe or China.

Southeast Asia is a shithole for a reason.

>>2214997
That still doesn't make sense. Japan is not as susceptible to non-violent action as Cuba and Greece.

>>2215046
>Well you still eat Mexican food
What, taco bell? kek. Try harder.

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>>2215048
Why isn't American "whiteness" questioned?
Pic only includes "non-Hispanic" "White" Americans.

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>>2215054
Khmer Empire predates post-Renaissance Europe, so your point it moot.

>>2215048
That's very true

>>2215061
Taco bell, tacos, chili peppers, and all sorts of non-Western food.

>>2215063
But American whiteness is ALWAYS questioned

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>>2215048

>>2215079
As far as I know, Mexicans hate Taco bell because
>no muh real tacos

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Just because

>>2215102
Reinforces my point, Latin America is not uniform in ethnicity, culture, government, economics, etc.
The only thing in common is the language

>>2215114

>Latin America is not uniform in ethnicity, culture
>only thing in common is the language

HMM

>>2215114
Kinda
Argentina and Uruguay are pretty similar. Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador and North Chile are similar too. Same goes with Venezuela and Colombia, and south Chile with south Argentina.
No idea about the rest but I am guessing most central american countries are similar.
But these countries still have a lot more in common than just the language.
I also have no idea what does that have to do with the pic I posted.

>>2215114
>what is Brazil
>what is Haiti
>what is life

>>2215122
You are right not even the language, Brazilians speak Portuguese.

>>2215130

oh look

another indo-european language dominating the American continent.

>>2215163
>indo-european
Pretty big tent

>identify as

>>2215185

Conceding even that, you ignore the closer Latin root. Arrogance belies your ignorant position.

>>2215186
>sociologically significant data on how people self-identify

>>2215199
>Latin root
Pretty big tent

>>2214071
Unless Indian muslims somehow create their own version of Islam with nationalistic undertones (like shiism and iran) then we are in for a major bloodbath in the future.

t.Indian hindu

>>2215207

pretty big continent

for you

I've a big pair of continents too, now that you've conceded as valid indo-european commonality.

>>2215225

good luck

>>2214758

>Implying the huge and advanced empires of Khmer, Srivijaya etc which were basically India lite in terms of civilization were savage primitive and poor.

you should have been aborted as a fetus

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ill just leave this here

>>2215000

>Implying modern day HDI factors determine if there was an advanced early civilization

>Implying colonialism and related exploitation didnt result in a decline

>>2215274

>Argentina

>>2215274
>>2215288
This whole chart is untrustworthy now because of Argentina.

>>2215274
why does guatemala have so many natives, I thought they finished the job there

Poor Ukraine cannot into west, no matter how many Orthodox grandmothers it murders to try and prove its dedication. Very sad!

>>2215267
>India
>not savage, primitive and poor
wew

>>2215274
Really so many Whites in Cuba?

>>2215308
If you're a Spanish settler, do you really want to live out in the fucking jungle?

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>>2215331
They were 50% of the population before Castro took over. Now half of them live in America.

>>2214391

>Yankee diaspora in every corner of the country
>Red Sox colonizing eastern canada which is otherwise a fucking blob

What a hideous map

>>2214071
The general idea that the world can be divided into cultural blocs which have distinct interests is true, but that's hardly groundbreaking.

>>2214071
autistic and short-sighted

>>2215274
argentina es blanco

>>2214909
>their political structure is western
Their political structure is distinctly Latin American and it's hard to even identify commonalities across all LA states. You fucking cum-guzzling Redditor faggot.

>all the numale redditors shitting on based Huntington itt
He literally predicted every ethno conflict (basically every conflict) of the past 15 years in his book

>>2215493
This. The haters don't understand.

>>2215567
Tell me some of them. I'm actually curious.

>>2215493
>is true
[Citation needed]

>Papua New Guinea
>Western

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>>2215696
"Huntington, Samuel. The clash of civilizations"

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>>2214923

What you just said it's retarded, since their influence its not very strong in most of Latin america.

You could make the argument for maybe peru or bolivia, but applying it to all of latin america would be like saying that the USA is very strongly influenced by native americans.

Just plain stupid.

>hindu civilization
>buddhist civilization

So ashoka would be an example of buddhist civilization even though he had all the titles of a mauryan emperor and called himself beloved of the gods?

Oh look, New Zealand isn't on there

>falkland islands
>latin america

>>2214418
They didn't begin as Islamic. They were their own distinct culture until the Greeks, Romans, and eventually, Muslims came in and conquered.
>inb4 Kushites and Nubians
They were the equivalent of a footnote in Egyptian history.

>>2214107
>Why is Africa one monolithic whole despite the mass differences between groups on the genetic, political and cultural level?

Stop with the nigger differentialism meme
Sub-saharan Africans are all rougly the same shit, be it in look or "culture"

>>2216222
>Sub-saharan Africans are all rougly the same shit,

Not even bro but I want to see your bullshit reasoning but nwab

>>2214071

Tbh I haven't read it.

Just the title and the map of ""civilizations"" make me think of something in-between a hollywood pop movie and a 13 year old american kid level of deep analysis and comprehension.

I reckon it must be a goldmine for buzzwords, memes and cliches

>>2216577
>I'm so intelligent and unique

>>2214657
>I think he classified it as hindu
what was bizare about it ?

>>2215322

>says Indian civilization was savage/primitive/poor

>Litrally contributed 35--40% of world gdp till 1700s - http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/GDP-History.gif

>only one of the two continuous surviving civilizations in existence with over 5000 years of history ,the other being chinese - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India

You wew'd yourself lad

>>2214357

It represents nothing but stupidity.

Also, if "The West" is represented by Amurica, then anything goes and Europe represents the Japanese civilization. USA is, at best, the distorted refraction mirror of the Western Civilization. Any Hiroshi from Japan is more in tune and culturally comprehensible for a European than Trumpmerica is.

>>2216680
>Any Hiroshi from Japan is more in tune and culturally comprehensible for a European than Trumpmerica is.
I'm a weeaboo and have been to Japan several times and like them and this still isn't true.

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>>2214107
>Latin America
>western
You're European, aren't you

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>>2214391
>the Angels

>>2214071
>Albania deleted on the map
I love it!

>>2214391
>>2215411
>What a hideous map
Yeah what's with VA and NC being such Yankee fans?

The Atlanta Brave empire should invade those fuckers and force convert them.

I don't even care if they have a Casus Belli, just eat the stab hit.

>>2217754
Probably, you stupid sharters interact only with the shittier Native parts of Latin America and assume everything looks the same as Mexico down below whereas us Europeans are more cultured.

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>>2215027
I´m uruguayan and we have mixed culture too

>>2214071
If you ignore poverty and race, explain to me how Latin America isn't western...
Language comes from Europe
Biggest religion is Catholicism
Literature follows European tradition
Culture comes from Spain and Portugal in the case of Brazil.
etc..

>>2217979
>but muh native cultural influences

It's as if Spain and Portugal didn't had Arab cultural influence, Finland didn't had Sami cultural influences, Hungary and Slovakia gypsy cultural influences etc.

>>2217985
Or the USA African and Mexican influences...

>>2214923
You guys learn about 2 Latin American countries and think the rest is the same. Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina doesn't fit what you said for example. The USA has more mexican influence than those countries.

>>2214071
If religion is the main criteria, then Latin America and Africa should be Western because they are mostly Catholic/Protestant like the Western part.

>in4 muh race

No, if you go by culture, these areas are under massive Western colonial influence. The moment you shoved Christianity and French/English/Spanish down their throats, imposed all your customs on them, absorbed their elites and made them economically dependent on your country, they became part of your civilization
Blacks are Western, whether you like it or not.

>>2217985
Even funnier: Americans boast about being a melting pot, a country of immigrants from all around the world. And they have states with names like Wyoming, Wisconsin, Arkansas...
They have Louisiana Voodoo too.

>>2214162
Fucking this
Jesus Christ the autism is so fucking pungent up in here

>>2214097
>the iberic peninsula is closer to 'muricans than latin america
It is. Spain has nothing in common with Sudacalandia, and it is part of NATO and the EU. Also it is the Iberian peninsula btw.
>>2214107
>Latin America it's own civilization? It's western.
Kek. Nice joke

>>2214172
>Spaniard and a Canadian have more in common with one another culturally, than a Spaniard and a Cuban
Maybe not a white Cuban or an Argentinian but Spain is closer to Canada than to Ecuador or Bolivia culturally

>>2218146
Spain has nothing in common? What about Football? Literature? Language? Religion?

>>2218146
>and it is part of NATO and the EU
How is this fucking relevant?

Give me cultural similarities between a spaniard and an american that don't exist between them and latinos.

>>2218153
That's because Latin America is a meme term. Imagine if Indians, Jamaicans and Africans were called "Anglos" just because they speak English, and lumped along with the UK, Australia, New Zealand and USA as a single region.

There is as much difference between a Spaniard or an Argentine and a Bolivian or Guatemalan as there is between a British or a Canadian and a Jamaican.

The amount of ignorance foreigners have about the USA is baffling considering we're the number one exporter of culture in the world.

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>>2218180
You people are real to Spaniards Jose.

>>2214918
Louis XIV was more iberian than French. Besides our Borbons are the bastards of Serrano and Isabel II as his husband was a literal faggot.

>>2215046
>Mexican food, all derived from native dishes
Most of mexican cuisine are Spanish dishes with Mexican ingredients. Unless you are talking about taco bell """mexican"""" food

>>2218191
So i guess you can't

>>2215352
Charlie Sheen is Spaniard+Irish. Not Cuban

>>2218161
>What about Football?
Every country plays football. I guess that Spain is close culturally to Ghana as well
>Literature?
There has been a pretty substancial split between Spanish and LATAM lit. Understanding what they wrote doesn't make it the same thing
> Language?
So Jamaicans are closer to England than France? Good to know
>Religion?
This also applies to Ghana.

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>Jorge Luis Borges, Mario Vargas Llosa and Pablo Neruda are not Western literature
>Alejandro González Iñárritu, Guillermo del Toro and Alfonso Cuarón are not Western filmmakers
>Antônio Carlos Gomes, Heitor Villa-Lobos and Carlos Gardel are not Western music
>Ernesto Laclau, Nicolás Gómez Dávila and Paulo Freire are not Western philosophers
>Andrés Bello, Francisco de Miranda and Evita Perón are not Western historical figures
>Diego Rivera, Frida Kahlo and Fernando Botero are not Western painters

And so it goes.

Defining Latin America as non-Western because of a bunch of Bolivian altiplano indios would be like saying Europe itself is non-Western because of its Romani people, or that New Zealand is non-Western because of the Maori.

There are probably more gypsies in Europe than unassimilated Aymara, Quechuas and Mayas in Latin America anyway.

>>2218193
>Louis XIV was more iberian than French

How about no?

>>2218269
>We are European and western guyyyys.
Kind of pathetic. Also this theory applies to political aligments and Argentina is in Mercosur and the rest of the continent in la alianza del pacífico so it is spot on in that respect

>>2218283
His mother was Spaniard and the french nobility married with the Castillian nobility a lot. He was closer to the standard Spaniard genitically than to the average French. Stay salty

>>2218290
Latin Americans are probably the only people in the world who still want to be considered white and part of the Western world.

>>2218305
>still want to be considered white
Only a minority ever were considered White

>>2218305
Latin America is as much part of the western civilization as Africa. Don't delude yourself. Politically you are a different block and culturally only a couple of countries have something close to western culture

>>2218325
>Latin America is as much part of the western civilization as Africa.

This is ridiculous. You can't recognize Western ideologies in Africa, you can do it in Latin America. The difference between Latin America and Europe, politically, is that ideologies which are of Western origins but not as popular in Europe are more popular in Latin America.

Pablo Iglesias, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, Jeremy Corbin and Katja Kipping are marginal figures in European politics, while in Latin America, their equivalents are mainstream. That doesn't mean these four politicians are "non-Western". If they were mainstream and in power in Europe, there would be political consequences in the reorganization of the European political block too in relation to the United States, but that wouldn't make Europe non-Western, as Charles de Gaulle getting France out of NATO military structure or Finland's relation to the USSR during the Cold War didn't make those countries non-Western.

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>>2218290
If you want to talk political alignment Argentina is also a Major Non-NATO Ally of the US like Australia, Japan, New Zealand or South Korea.

And most of Latin America is in a mutual defense pact with the US, the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance.

I agree that not all of Latin America is "Western", there are some countries that are majority native where the culture is way different to that of the West.

But in many countries native influence is limited, and some don't have any significant native influence at all, no more than the US or Canada anyway.

>>2218325
>Latin America is as much part of the western civilization as Africa

You are saying that a continent that has 500 years of European influence including the renaissance and the french revolution, received millions of European immigrants, where natives almost went extinct, is not western?

Holy fucking shit.

>>2218363
Your problem is the same as Huntington's. Your exorcising Race from civilsations and thinking it still has meaning.

Even the term "Latin America" was coined by 19th century frogs who wanted to claim a strong cultural tie to the region, as opposed to "Iberic America" which would make more sense since actual french influence was limited.

The idea that Latin America is not "western" is markedly a post WWII development where NATO became of primary importance to the US

>LOL BUT LOOK AT THESE BROWN BOLIVIANS
kys

>>2218371
>where natives almost went extinct,
This was never close to happen.
>Holy fucking shit.
It is a fact. Hues are as European as South Africa. By your logic the Phillipines is more western than LATAM. Again you people are deluded

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>>2218318
1920 map by Lothrop Stoddard

>>2218389
Does the red in Latin America look like a majority of the map to you? We may be looking a different maps.

>>2218365
>If you want to talk political alignment Argentina is also a Major Non-NATO Ally of the US like Australia, Japan, New Zealand or South Korea.
>And most of Latin America is in a mutual defense pact with the US, the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance.
Don't you realize that Latin American countries are always together in blocs like the ones you just mentioned? That is what the whole map is about.

>>2218363
>You can't recognize Western ideologies in Africa
You can.

>>2218384
>This was never close to happen.
Read about De Las Casas
>By your logic the Phillipines is more western than LATAM
How come? The Philippines retained their language and ethnicity.

>>2218384
>This was never close to happen.
In Uruguay, Argentina and Brazil natives did not build advanced settlements and so the population density was low, same as in North America. Europeans exterminated them in military campaigns, same as in the USA. Today natives are 1% or 2% of Argentina and Brazil (same % as in the USA and Canada) and totally wiped out in Uruguay.

Whereas in countries like Peru, Bolivia, and Central America there were advanced Native American civilizations with large cities and advanced agriculture, so the Spaniards chose to take over the existing structures in these places rather than wipe them out.

>>2218384
>As detailed in American Philosophy: From Wounded Knee to the Present, "It is also apparent that the shared history of the hemisphere is one framed by the dual tragedies of genocide and slavery, both of which are part of the legacy of the European invasions of the past 500 years. Indigenous people north and south were displaced, died of disease, and were killed by Europeans through slavery, rape and war. In 1491, about 145 million people lived in the western hemisphere. By 1691, the population of indigenous Americans had declined by 90-95 percent."

>>2218396
>Does the red in Latin America look like a majority of the map to you?
In some countries it does. Can't you tell borders apart? Should we group USA with Jamaica and say Anglo America is not Western?

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>>2218384
But South Africa is a peculiar case, it can be argued that the country is at least part-Western thanks to its distinct history, demographics and culture.

It's different from saying that countries where women's rights, gay's rights and civil rights for all ethnicities are accepted and respected are just as Western as countries with widespread genital mutilation, homophobic laws and tribalist politics.

>>2218405
>Read about De Las Casas
He was extremelly biased and trying to push his agenda
>How come? The Philippines retained their language and ethnicity.
They speak English and their villages are just Spanish settlements. They are as western as most of LATAM

>>2218397
>Don't you realize that Latin American countries are always together in blocs
I just proved to you that's not the case.
Trade blocks are built out of geographic proximity it has nothing to do with being "Western" or not.

Half of Latin America is part of ASEAN along with Australia, I guess that means Australia is not Western then.

>>2218410
>In Uruguay, Argentina and Brazil natives did not build advanced settlements and so the population density was low, same as in North America. Europeans exterminated them in military campaigns, same as in the USA. Today natives are 1% or 2% of Argentina and Brazil (same % as in the USA and Canada) and totally wiped out in Uruguay.
Gaucho culture splitted off pretty quickly from Spanish culture. The only LATAM country that could have been considered western was Cuba but Castro happened

>>2218440
>I just proved to you that's not the case.
It was in every single case just look at your examples.
>Trade blocks are built out of geographic proximity
Not really.

>>2218444
Gauchos were romanticized frontiersmen like American cowboys and the Canadian métis, they dissapeared when the frontier against the Indians stopped being a frontier as the Indians were wiped out and replaced with European settlers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Desert

>>2218444
Gaucho culture is just Spanish/Portuguese settler culture adapted to huge plains environment and some indigenous influences. Like cowboy culture in North America.

Are Cowboys not part of Western culture now?

>>2218431
They speak Filipino and they are ethnically Philippine.

Latin America speaks Spanish and only Spanish(except for some isolated tribes) and most have European blood.

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>>2218456
My example were the MNNAs

>>2218462
Not to mention Filipinos, even those of upper-classes, don't consider themselves Western, while those Latin Americans who know what Western civilization is do consider themselves part of it.

>>2218032
To be fair, African Christianity is combined with their own voodoo, animal , totemic shit.

Christianity in Latin America and Europe is pretty much the same.

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>>2218486
kek do you have this in Europe

>>2218486
More importantly, atheism in Latin America and Europe has the same origins in XVIIIth century Enlightenment and XIXth century radicalism and anticlericalism.

The Freemasonry was as influential in spreading the ideals of modernity and rationality in Latin America as it was in Latin European countries. It was the same with the ultramontane reaction.

>>2218501
>Bolivia
Once again not every Latin American country is the same.

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>>2218501
Is baptising children by jumping over them Western?

>>2218519
That is not a baptism though

>>2214899
Maybe I'm speaking from an Ivory tower since I an an upper-middle class guy from the most developed country in Latin America, but everyone here consider themselves as "western" as opposed to the Islamic world or the far east. Although we draw a line between North and South, we do consider ourselves as having way more in common with what Huntington calls "the West" than with the rest of the third world.

>>2215288
>>2215302
keep the memes within >>>/int/

>>2214134
>"Orthodox" term is inaccurrate, because Orthodoxy wasnt important in both inner and external politics of Russian empire.


Sure it's not like the Russia was the Third Rome, and protected her Orthodox brethen in the Whole World(particularly in Middle-East) and tried to reconquer Constantinople

You need to read more m8

I would recommend you to start with Crimean War

>>2218902
>the Russia
Russia*

>and protected her Orthodox brethen
and protected her Orthodox brethren

>to start with Crimean War
to start with the Crimean War*

FTFM

>>2218210
Not exactly true, it's a mix of Spanish and French cuisine altering indigenous dishes. And this really depends on the region. Like in the Yucatan theres mostly Spanish, Maya and Arab influences in their cuisine. Things like Tacos, Tamales, torrillas, archeological evidence suggests mole now too all were precolumbian.

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If anyone here interested in real Humanities, here is friendly chart for you.

>>2214071
Western Europe and North America should be separate.
t. yuropoor

>>2218944
That's not a good measure of cultural proximity

>>2218384
Define what western means and explain how "hues" don't fit in the definition

Do you even know that King D. John VI went to Brazil lived and ruled there and then his son and then his grandson?

So you're saying that a monarchy that was ruled by European kings who lived in the land is not Western? Also the fact that 99% of the culture come directly from Portugal?

Why do you have to distort reality to fit your ideology?

>>2214071
It has to be explained that Huntington theory is not on a sociological, historical or behavioural level: it is a way to explain the current way in wich the current international system operates.
It's Political Science, not History, nor sociology.
Furthermore it's a subsecotor of P.S., it's aninternational politcal science theory

>Iran or Russified Central Asia having anything in common with most of those countries

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Is this accurate?

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>>2218501
>totemic shit
>Implying euros didnt do the same

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>>2219265
It's something like this, honestly.

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>>2219265
>>2219286
More like this

This thread is exactly what's wrong with Huntington's Clash of Civilizations. Just a bunch of retards making whooping generalizations about everything despite lacking the minimum basic understanding of what they try to summarize.

>>2219485
>Le Ivory Tower man XD
kys

>>2219485
Huntington's theory works in an international contenxt between nations, in no other way it would make sense.
Huntington theory explains really well contemporarry conflicts and clashes between the leader of each Civ and between the Civs themselves.
Huntington's theory opposes proufoundly the,
now fortunately dismisded, theories of Neo-Conservativism of foreign interventism for a more live and let live attitude towards the different civilizations, wich he thinks can not be reasoned with without conflict.

>>2214071
>Baltic's and Poland are Western
>Yet somehow, South Africa is not

>>2214071
It's beyond discredited in Political Science, right up there with horseshoe theory and Fukuyama's "End of History."

The lines he drew are totally arbitrary, and led him to make some really weird conclusions like that if a war ever breaks out between the US and PRC, the Japanese will side with the Chinese because they're naturally "drawn to their Asiatic kin." Whole notion of these "civilizations" existing and being predictive of their loyalties falls apart when you compare them to actual real life alliances and conflicts.

>>2214071
Yeah wow Turkey and Iran and Saudi Arabia and Syria sure are best bros Oh Pee.

>>2219619
Not true, tell that to my International Relations teacher.

Of course Fukuyama is bunk though, that is true.

>>2220010
Your Political Science program sounds like shit, m8. Let me guess: George Mason University? Bama?

>>2220046
An Italian university.

Actually, he says that it's pretty accurate regarding the way current international politics work, but it has worthless conclusions.
It is a pretty good tool to interpret events with , but deosn't give any solutions. Useless in practice other then a good theory.

Then again doesn't Galtung redefinition of the Civilization borders make it explain even better the current situation, it seemed pretty reasonable to me.

>>2214232
Maybe if you are a filthy indian

>>2219600
>Niggers chimping out
>Western

>>2219210

The USA has like x10000 stronger ties with Saudi Arabia and Korea than with Switzerland.

Pls inform Mr. Huntington & friends next time he goes into drawing maps, assigning teams, putting labels and implying implications.

>>2218161
You should learn more about Spain and its people and compare them to, say, France and then South America. You'll be surprised.