Why did fascism fail?

>>2212847
Because you touch yourself at night

>>2212847
Because of the world war number 2 and the fact that it only ever produced dictators, making it a system where in which it is impossible to easily transition from leader to leader, perhaps if an elective system was set up in a fascist system maybe it would have survived.

>>2212847
*1 sentence summary of my argument that i don't wanna type out because i want people at the top of the page to see it and that would take too long*

fascism has never been tried

>>2212847
Because Liberalism and Communism teamed up to obliterate it.

>>2212847
because it´s rule by thugs with thuggish methods

>>2212849
>>2212858
>>2212860
>>2212863
>>2212868
proven right :)
>>2212859

>overgrown military complex and lack of representative institutions makes war a necessity
>fascist ideology promotes total war
>your neighbourgs are stronger than you

>>2212847
Because it wasn't a coherent ideology to begin with. For fuck's sake, Mussolini couldn't even be arsed to figure out what it meant, so he had some dude ghostwrite his treatise on fascism for him. Fascism is a meme.

>failed in Italy
shouldn't have allied with germany when it went total apeshit

>failed in Spain
establishing a regime through civil war when your neighboring country is France will automatically make the whole intellectual population shit on you world widely

>failed in Portugal
you can't expect your population to accept facism if the country's next door just got turned into a democratic regime

>failed in South America
why don't people love these warlords whose answer to every contestation is killing and purging… I wonder why

>>2212882
I wouldn't say that constant war was needing but more so they would have to find ways to make the dominant populace feel special and keep them happy, whether by messing with minorities or having a national tough guy mentality

>>2212891
>Spain
Not facsict
>Portugal
Not fascist
>South America
Ambiguous. Likely not fascist in a meaningful sense beyond being vaguely national socialist like the Baathist of the middle east.

These were Fascist regimes.
Italian government
3rd Reich (sorta mix between Fascism and Stalinism)
Iron guard (Rumania)
Ustaše (Croatia)
Austria before Anschluss (under dollfuss)
falangist (They were not the government of Spian)
Hungary briefly
Slovakia briefly

>>2212847
The rest of the world declared war on it.
Same thing happened to communism afterwards.
Historically, it has also happened after the french revolution, for example, and in ancient Greece against dictators.

>>2212912
they fit in most of the Fascist regime criterias

Hitler went full retard

>>2212956
All he did was ask for territory which was german a couple of decades ago to be german again.

>>2212957
he should have asked for danzig instead of sperging at czechoslovakia tbqh

>>2212961
I heard he was sperging at the czechs because they were put up as a planeramp for the french to bomb bavarias industry if necessary so he wanted their shit preventivly (a bit like how putin took the crimea because he didnt like those rockets there.) but did so in a quiet aggressive way.
The rest of the eastwards policie is indeed going full retard.

>>2212912
I agree that Portugal wasn't fascist but Spain was, without a doubt, fascist.

In Portugal, the dictator knew that his country couldn't compete with others when it comes to military prowess (wich was\is the base of fascism) so he adopted the tactic of creating a primitivist society with a strong theocratic influence

>>2212847

There are 2 different levels to view at the failure of fascism (in my oppinion NatSoc is am ultra right and totalitarian branch of fascism).

The military and political one:

>Essentially boring. Talked about a bazillion times.

>Don't declare a war against the whole world, especially if you lack the ressources your opponents have available.

>Dude all allies of the 3rd Reich were worthless.

>Essentially a why the Axis lost 101.

The ideological one:

>universal claim:

Both communism and the liberal democracies offer a ideological modell that includes every human being transcending ethnic and cultural barriers. Fascism on the other hand is ethnocentric or at least fixated on a certain culture which is percieved as superior. Thus Fascisms main opponents had a much stronger attraction. Fascism on the other hand motivated widespread resistance in conquered areas.

>Irrationalism: Especially widespread in the NatSoc ideology.

Irrational dogmas and beliefs that impaired rational judgement and led to wrong political,economic and strategical decisions.

>wasting massive ressources on exterminating your most productive group in society

>letting racial/cultural predjudices influence decisions
>for example:
>Hitlers belief that US impact on the war would be low because he viewed it as a mongrel society
>slavic subhumans lead by jewish bolshevics surely won't put up more resistance than tsarist russia
>filthy chinese surely can't stop the glorious imperial army forged in japans genetic onsen (despite mostly investing in the navy and not having the logistical System to manage the huge,not really infastructural country)

>>2212847
anachronism

philosophies based on ancient world values might not work in modern states

>>2212957
>implying hitler didn't occupy czechia after annexing the sudetenland
>invades poland on shaky pretexts, annexes non-german parts

>>2213041
>I agree that Portugal wasn't fascist but Spain was, without a doubt, fascist.
No it wasn't. The Falange was originally fascist but in 1937 it merged with carlists and became conservative rather than fascist. If Rivera had lived Spain might have been fascist but he didn't

for practical reasons of war in the german italian and japanese case, and because of the Lyotard delegitimation for the others. Nationalism and religion (on wich fascism is based) are both narratives in wich many people don't believe anymore (imho it's quite a good thing)

>>2213438

>Nationalism and religion (on wich fascism is based)

>fascism
>based on religion

holy fucking shit I hate anglos so fucking much

>>2213461
I'm not english, i'm italian and i know mussolini was strongly against catholic church, but it's a fact that he did the Concordato and there is nothing to argue about it. Maybe a "pure fascist ideology" is anticlerical, but actually in history fascist always did some sort of alliance with the church

>>2212847
They declared war on the whole world and lost

The Nazis made it forever connotated with race, which doomed it to be incorrect in the eyes of the important countries.

>>2212847
Because liberalism won.

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Okay, help me out here, I need to know how to separate fascist nations from non-fascist nations.

So I'm gonna list off a bunch of nations and you tell me if they are fascist:
Hitler's Germany
Mussolini's Italy
Franco's Spain
Salazar's Portugal
Peron's Argentina
WW2 Hungary
Codreanu's Romania
WW2 Slovakia
Nationalist China
WW2 Imperial Japan

Now for some of the more "out there" ones:
Modern North Korea
Modern Russia
Modern Iran
Stalinist Russia

And finally, ones that never came to be:
Salgado's Brazil
Fascist America (William Dudley Pelly? George Rockwell?)
Mosley's Britain

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Also, what's is there a general rule for distinguishing fascist nations from non-fascist nations? Salazar's Portugal seems to fulfill all the requirements, authoritarianism, nationalism, and corporatism, yet it isn't considered fascism by some here. Is it the mindset of those in the nation that makes them not fascist? What causes WW2 Imperial Japan to not be fascist? Can monarchies not be fascist?

>>2215195
>Hitler's Germany
Yes, but a variant of Fascism that differs heavily from other forms.
>Mussolini's Italy
Yes
>Franco's Spain
No
>Salazar's Portugal
No
>Peron's Argentina
Ambiguous.
>WW2 Hungary
Yes
>Codreanu's Romania
Yes
>Nationalist China
No
>WW2 Imperial Japan
No
>Modern North Korea
No
>Modern Russia
No
>Modern Iran
No
>Stalinist Russia
No
>Salgado's Brazil
Maybe
>Fascist America (William Dudley Pelly? George Rockwell?)
Yes
>Mosley's Britain
Yes

>>2215292
>WW2 Slovakia
Yes

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>>2215292
Why aren't Franco and Salazar fascist? Also, what causes Peron's Argentina and Salagado's Brazil to be ambiguous?

>>2212847
The fascist states were outnumbered and outfirepowered, and the most militarily important state, Germany, placed ideological before strategic concerns.
>>2215195
Germany, Italy, Slovakia, Portugal, and Romania (Codreanu never took power btw) were the only fascist states. Plus the puppet states like Vichy France.

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>>2215439
Why Portugal but not Spain?

>>2212957
>Central and Eastern Poland
>The Czech Republic
>Denmark
>Norway
>Luxemburg
>The Netherlands
>Belgium
>Northern France
>Ukraine
>Belarus
>Russia

>Shithole economically bankrupt nations adopt ideology that only the strongest survive
>Decide to invade slightly shittier nations
>Get their shit kicked in by a Communist superstate and a Capitalist economic powerhouse
Fascism is the favorite of inferiority complex nations as it minmaxes military power to attempt to take more territory but eventually fails against nations who actually focused on their economies rather than pseudoscience and bombs.

>>2212847
It's a primitive and tyrannical system that flies in the face of concepts like freedom and rights that proper forms of government like republics and constitutional monarchies try to preserve.

>>2213461
He's right. The logic is: "if people can't respect God, how can I expect them to respect the State?" Fascism is in fact based on religious morality, only to a rational extent though.

>>2212847
It didn't, (((American))) invasion destroyed it

>>2215439
>Plus the puppet states like Vichy France
Vichy wasn't a puppet state, Petain wanted to slowly restore France's territory after the War

>>2216637
> Petain wanted to slowly restore France's territory after the War
Interesting. Could you elaborate on this

>>2215931
All rightful german clay.

WW2

>>2212847
Because ironically ''real Fascism'' has never been practiced. It all turned into hero cult totalitarianism.

>>2215355
that Peron's Argentina was "fascism for the browns" which is basically Colonial Repayments 1.0, so the leftists don't like to say its evil

Evo Morales is fascist too, but is indigenous fascism so its racist to critique

Not enough faggots.

>>2213041
Franco's rule was not fascist because he abadoned all the things that he promised the fallange and ended up establishing a rule similar to pinochet (ie shit)

>>2212912
nazism is different to fascism
Mussolini even said fascism doesn't need the delusion of racial superiority

>>2216643
those were his intentions from the start since he was convinced the germans would win
unlike the post you're responding to though I doubt he would have ever been in a position to do so

>>2212887
This.
Define fascism.

>>2212847
International globalists don't like the idea of strong, independent nations.

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>>2212957
>Central and Eastern Poland
>The Czech Republic
>Denmark
>Norway
>Luxemburg
>The Netherlands
>Belgium
>Northern France
>Ukraine
>Belarus
>Russia

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>>2219461
Explain the relationship between Franco and the Fallange, I keep hearing about it but I don't have the full story.

>>2215451
Franco banned the fascist party and allowed free market capitalism.

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>>2220322
Didn't the economy suck before he opened up the markets and the "spanish miracle" happened?

>>2220291
Fallange were properly fascist and Franco was very close to them
I'm not entirely sure of their relationship but I believe he was part of the party and thanks to the Fallange's contribution to the civil war Franco was able to sieze the power

When in power though, the Fallange had a "list" of things they wanted, of which Franco completely disregarded

Franco's regime was conservative and catholic, but also tried to legitimise itself with economic growth
The Fallange were very disappointed by this and they went their own way, not sure if Franco had them arrested/killed/imprisoned like Stalin did with his own party, but I think he did do something to sort with it

>>2220352
most of the "x miracle"s aren't wholly impressive and it certainly did not require a man like Franco to put them in place

>>2220532
I guess I'm just trying to get a gauge on how effective fascist corporatism is as an economic system. There's so many countries that used it and they all seemed to have radically different results.

>>2220565
varies wildly depending on the circumstances

essentially the goal of fascism isn't to have a strong economy, it's to have an economy that serves the state and not vice versa
since in fascism the state and people are intrinsically linked this is justified, and logically it does make sense I just wouldn't trust most people to run it

>>2212847
Because you need the support of citizens to run a country.

>>2212912
>Slovakia
Do you mean '44 to '45? Because Tiso's regime wasn't really fascism although it borrowed from fascism.

>>2212847
Cause Mussolini took a shit-tier backwards North Africa-tier Mediterranean country and thought he was commanding an industrial giant like Germany. He was doing good in moving the country forwards until he went all WE WUZ ROMAN EMPIRE N SHEEIT and tried to conquer a bunch of countries and tried to play with the big boys.

>>2219629
Fascism is a state that has the following criteria
>authoritarian/dictatorial
>very nationalist
>strong police state that forces compliance of civilians
>socially far right, economically centre to centre left
>(optional) militaristic and attempted conquest of foreign territory

>>2212847
It was something small,not many countries adopted it,as soon as 4-5 countries have adopted it they started wars,they losed,fascism faild.

>>2212847
It's ultimately unsustainable.

Fascism fails because it is ultimately about fulfilling the fantasies of the equivalent of /pol/tards as opposed to building a lasting political project.

Nationalism and racism put too many self-imposed constraints on the government, which reduces the pool of competent people they can recruit to itself and makes government more accessible to the ideologically compatible as opposed to the competent.

The inevitable belicosity by a government headed by too many incompetent people makes sure they are going to get raped in any war they manage to get into.

Mussolini was the most reasonable fascist until he developed a massive inferiority complex with regards to Hitler.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/
maybe youll find some answers there, havent read it in a while and cant be fucked to again

>>2213041
Franco neutered the Falange and established a run-of-the mill traditionalist conservative dictatorship.

I don't like the guy but he was pretty mild as far as dictators go.

>>2212847

It always fails in the end. Leave everything else aside, free people fight harder and smarter and longer.

>>2220532
Franco was not part of the Falange.

The Falange's contribution to the revolt and the war effort was pretty negligible, really. IIRC in the pre-war elections the Falange hardly picked up more than a few thousand votes. Franco came to power on the back of the Spanish military (particularly the officer corps), the church, and the country's traditional elites.

When he was declared head of the rebellion he forced the Falange to unify with the Carlists (an ultra-reactionary Monarchist organization that basically saw everything since 1789 as a mistake) into a single party under his control, the FET y de las JONS. In the process he scrapped the Falange's modernist, transformative aspirations and more or less just stole some of their iconography because it was cool.

There's some (in my view, reasonable) speculation that he allowed Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera (the rather charismatic head of the Falange) to be executed by the Republicans rather than orchestrate a prisoner exchange because he saw him as a potential rival.

In short, the Falange was not really instrumental in the establishment of Francoist Spain, and Franco didn't really like them; they were only tolerated because they were an ally against the Republic and had the support of some workers and intellectuals (also, Falangist rhetoric was superficially anti-elitist and anti-capitalist and so managed to draw some support from former leftists).

STOP MAKING FUN OF FASCISM YOU LIBKEKS!!!!!!! NOTHING IS WRONG WITH FASCISM!!!!!! FASCISM ALWAYS WORKS!!!!!!!! KEKS!!!!!!!! CUUUUUUCKS!!!!!!

>>2212847
Complexity

>>2212858
it isnt fascism if it follows the principles of democracy

>>2215195
>Modern Iran
No but one could make a thin case for it under the Pahlavi Shahs.