Why is Persia so underrated?

>>2212008
What do u mean by Persia? It's like u would say China..

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Because of the narrative about all civilization beginning with the greeks before the torch being passed to the romans.
In this story the dirty iranians are the "other" that only exist to be defeated by the handsome europeans.

>>2212008
>Persians
>Underrated
Wut?

If you mean by the Mainstream Western Pop History and Hollywood then its because of this:
>>2212550
Same reason why almost all non-European Civilizations are Underrated

>>2212008
Those of us who focus on Near Eastern history rate them very highly.

>>2212008
Because the Jews hate them and demonize them in Western media.

>>2212550
I'm Greek and even we're not taught anything like that.
They're not depicted as inferior, with maybe the exception of their military, just different and that the wars between us and them be something that would dramatically alter western civilization and world history if they had been the victors.

Are the Iranians of today really the descendants of the Persians from thousands of years ago? You'd think with all those conquests from just about everyone that it's gone.

>>2212877
Many are. But too many UNWISHED arabs and majirs

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>>2212877
Depends, they have a mountainus land and mountains make always for good ethnic holdouts.
The south is pretty arabised though, but people know that and dont pretend otherwise.
Id look into the rural people who live in the central mountains

>>2212939
Something about that watermelon just makes me laugh.

>>2212008
This one of the legitimate cases of just ignoring them because they were outside of Europe. Persia was the most advanced society basically from their creation to the point where Alexander destroyed them, and even then, their assimilation into the Hellenic world made the Macedonian successor kingdoms better through osmosis.

>>2212550
>Because of the narrative about all civilization beginning with the greeks

The narrative is western civilization was founded by the greeks, donno where you got all from.

>>2212829
Literaly this

If Americans were aware of the scientific, literary, and engineering contributions of the Persians it would be a lot harder to declare war on them for Israel

Who should I play as/when should I start for a CK2 Persia playthrough?

No such thing as Persia

>>2212877
Maybe the Gilakis and Mazandaris.

Neither the Arabs, the Turks or the Mongols managed to conquer their region of Tabaristan while they would rule as their own state in the north or as a semi-autonomous vassal like they did under the Seljuks/Khwarezmians. All while having Zoroastrianism as the state religion until they gradually shifted to Islam in the 11th century with the help imam ambassadors.

Hell, during the Ziyarid era they reconquered most of of the old Sassanid lands from the Abbasids and were to reinstate Zoroastrianism as the religion over the entire region but the leader of the entire thing was killed by his Turk man-servants. So that started to the shift to Islam and the rise of the Buyid dynasty that would later fall to the Seljuk Turks and be pushed back to their corner of Tabaristan they could not conquer.

They didn't really "fall" until the Safavid dynasty when they opened up completely and joined them in their shitty war-efforts, while the locals that didn't convert to Islam were treated like worse than shit.

>>2212008
Because persians always have been dicks to the west
>ancient greece
>ancient rome
>crusaders
>russia
>russia again and uk during the great game
>islamic republic of iran
enough to hate those furry beasts, they're no different to the turks.

>>2213730
ancient Greece
>implying life wasn't infinitely more comfy under the Persians than the kid diddler greeks

ancient rome
>implying they weren't dicks to each other

crusaders
>Persia's fault how

Russia
>Russia
>western
>also note the size of Russia, compare that to Iran

russia again and uk during the great game
>god damnit iran why won't you just give us all your oil

islamic republic of iran
>literally a result of western interventionism

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>>2213730
>ancient greece
E M P I R E
>ancient rome
E M P I R E
>crusaders
The seljuks was a combination of several Turkic tribes.
>russia
not sure what war youre specifying, if its ww2 then the commies buttfucked us over because of "Muh gestapo"
>uk
shouldnt have played with our oil
>islamic republic of iran
shouldnt have played with our oil, taken down our democracy. now we're unconsiously making nukes. thanks.

>>2213838
>taken down our democracy
Total meme. Mosaddegh was just another paranoid autocrat and his coalition was unraveling before the UK/US cucked him.

>>2212963
The fact they were the enemy of Greece really hurt them as well, since Greece was considered the spawning point of western thought and society.

>>2212877
>>2212829
>>2213518
>>2213518
>Iran
>Same as Persia

The Shah tried to bring back that ancient Zoroastrian legacy which caused all Iran to freak out and depose of him and create that Arab death cult worshiping theocracy they always wanted. Why doesn't the West care about that heritage? Why should they when Iran doesn't care either?

>>2213549
Rostam Bavandid of Tabaristan in 867, and go for the Saoshyant event.

>>2213962
you're information is a little wrong there bud.

I encourage you to read a little bit more about the cultural-political climate at the time of the revolution.

>>2213880
>therefore intervention is justified

ya no

>>2212979
Technically it was founded by the Proto-Indo-Europeans, not the Greeks.

>>2214453
But the narrative is different.

>>2212008
because they got fucked over by the mongols and are muslims which just makes the country more unlikable

>>2214459
Some narratives are wrong, period. I hate postmodernism with its "hurr durr there is no dichotomy truth or falsehood in narrative constructs".

The correct narrative is Western civilization began with the Proto-Indo-Europeans.

>>2214475
Go back to sucking Saudi dick.

Your prostitute in Dubai is waiting btw, faggot.

Scaphism for you.

>>2214477
that means that both Persia and the West share a common lineage, which means the east vs west dichotomy doesn't apply!!! HOW WILL I KNOW WHO TO BOMB NOW

>>2214490
Indo-European has 3 branches.
European
Iranian
Indian

Because

1. fuck islam
2. they haven't done much in a long time

>>2214487
who gives a shit about the middle east anyway?

Because Western opinion towards the Middle East has swayed from "meh, don't care" to "KILL THEM ALL" within the span of a few generations.

And because Iranians, as the successors of Persians, are probably the people most capable of resisting Western aggression, they're going to get shit on and all of their achievements are played down.

>>2214477
I know that, I was only stating that the current "popular" narrative speaks of Greece.

>>2212008

(((citations needed)))

>>2212963
>Persia was the most advanced society basically from their creation to the point where Alexander destroyed them

What was mesopotamiA, India and China?

they were one of the advanced, not THE advanced.

>>2214496
>1. fuck islam

tbqh m8, they gave a total fyck you to sauidi wahhabi pigs and created their own version of islam that is at odds with the sunni cult. props to them. Imagine how destructie islam would have been if there were no internal faultlines.

t. hindu

>>2214805
>go to Iran
>look at the qanats

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>>2214844
>support the Abbasid rebellion against the united pan-Arab Umads
>then create their own memephats and emirates to fragment the Abbasid rule with some having their own denominations of islam
>Arabs never recovered after this and today still fight cause "muh sunni vs shia" shit
truly as you said, the greatest "fuck you" in history

>>2214820
Persia was better

compare mathematical, scientific, and engineering achievements of all 3 and you will see

Iran literally created the precursor to the scientific method. sorry m8 can't really beat that

>>2214844
Too bad 90% of people don't know this, or even know the origins of Shia Islam

>>2214844
As weird as the Shia are, they are a joy to behold.

>cockblocked the Israelis for decades
>cockblocked the Saudis in their own country
>literally live on top of most of the oil in the Middle East

Truly a gift from God (or Allah?)

>>2212008
Persia is a solid civilization no doubt.

They got wrecked like hell by the hordes sadly.

They're most likely "underrated" as you say because people in schools learn about what is closer to them: Rome and Greece, Medievial Europe, Western Renaissance, and so on.

Even if you pass a degree in History you'll most likely hear very little about Persia compared to Europe

>>2212008
Its underrated because its lumped with arabs for some stupid reason

That and nonone will acknowledge shit as long as the Ayatollah is in power
Pahlavi restoration when?

>>2214864
Those border fuck ups make Karlings look sane.

>>2212877
lurs have the closest language to middle persian but some say they are a branch of kurds

Anyone notice how in the history books from middle school and high school, whenever the topic goes to "ancient civilizations", it ALWAYS goes from

>Babylon
>Egypt
>Greece

And it completely skips the entire history of the Achaemenid and Sassanid eras?? The only time the Persians are mentioned are during the Greco-Persian wars, in which the Persians are portrayed as primitive barbarians trying to stop MUH GREEK DEMOCRACY

Only the Jews could be responsible for this

>>2214962
It's even funnier when you look into what each dynasty stood for.

Like 3 of them claimed descent from the Sassanid royal family while a 4th was made up by a sect of proto-shia Ismailis tried to fulfill a Zoroastrian doomsday prophecy by attacking Medina and stealing the Black stone after they burnt down the Cube.

>>2215005
But Jews love Persians.

Cyrus the Great is the only non Jew to have the status of a prophet in Judaism.

>>2215005
Yeah I noticed it

>>2215109
Cyrus the Great made a mistake.

>>2215137
Having the Juden on your side is rarely a bad idea.

Hence why the Persians get so much good PR in the Old Testament.

>>2215005
I think it has to do with all the burnings from the destruction of Perspolis, the fall of Ctesiphon and the Turks + Mongols throwing their BBQ in the area destroying everything leaving almost no recordings behind.
Most of the facts we got about them pre-Islamic is from the greeks and romans who didn't generally like them.

And IIRC they are still in the process of translating a shitload of tablets from those eras you mentioned found in Iran, which is a slow process.

>>2215141
Cyrus the Great should have assisted the Babylonians in exterminating all Jews. If he could peer into the future, he would have decided to do that.

>>2215109
>>2215141
and yet Israel has been trying to convince the world for the past 30 years to go to war against Iran

This is what we get for being goyim

>>2215160
But the Shah and Israel were bros.

I have to imagine Cyrus would exterminate all the Arabs to prevent Islam from showing up and ruining his civilization.

>>2215021
sounds like some elder scrolls shit

>>2215168
also see
>>2213710
and look up the Daylamites, now those guys were fucking hardcore

>>2215166
He would have exterminated both the Arabs and Jews.

>>2215176
>Muslims never show up
>Jews and Arabs remain bros
>Persians tell the Jews in advance about Jesus so they can gank that nigga before he causes problems
>Middle East stays mostly zoroastrian, with a little bit of Juden

Happy end.

>>2215205
>with a little bit of Juden
No thank you.

I am not in the mood to debate with someone who is obviously a Jew themselves. Keep your Faustian contracts to yourself.

>>2215236
Atheist. I come from an Episcopalian WASP family.

But yeah, vitriolic antisemitism is something that only really existed in European Christendom prior to the rise of Wahabhism in the 19th century.

I blame German autism.

>>2214493
may Anatolian and Tocharian RIP

>>2214873

somehow feels like a "muh feels" argument.

Literally cannot quantify and compare what independent civilizations did especially when some are extinct today.

>>2215428
Look it up faggot

China's technological development had been less than stellar. >muh paper, >muh gunpowder

India has a slightly better record with it's understnading of the number 0, developments in trig, some medical stuff, etc.

Babylon was bretty good. they even had a battery. But Persia had jacuzzis powered by farts, so show me something that can beat that

>>2215537
>they even had a battery
If you are talking about the Baghdad Battery, then it's believed to be developed inbetween the Parthian-Sassanid period, cause of the Sassanid style on the pottery.

So that's more Persian memes.

>>2215537
>>2215581
>While some researchers refer to the object as a battery, the origin and purpose of the object remains unclear.[7] In March 2012, Professor Elizabeth Stone, of Stony Brook University, an expert on Iraqi archaeology, returning from the first archaeological expedition in Iraq after 20 years, stated that she does not know a single archaeologist who believed that these were batteries

>>2212829
Wouldn't the Jews love the ancient Persians, though?

>>2215823
Look up the holiday Purim. They commemorate the deaths of our magi, so no, they don't like our Pre-Islamic heritage. They just appreciate Cyrus the Great a little bit, that's it.

>>2215896
The Shah and the Israelis were also bros.

>>2215933
in his ideal world he would have given them a convert of die ultimatum
he settled for freeing them and returning their land to ensure loyal subjects